Dublin bus footage and reporting a driver

ted1

Has anybody got CCTV footage from Dublin Bus?

I had a very close pass yesterday on the N11 just after Foxrock church. (The bike lane isn’t great there and I’ve reported it to the council. )

Anyway dublin bus have said they’ll send on the footage under GPDR by the 2nd of April.


I plan on following this up with a view of securing a prosecution. Should I report it in a garda station or to traffic watch. Should I do it now or wait till I get the footage ?

NuttyMcNutty

Did the bus driver actually intentionally try to run you over? You say the cycle lane is not the best, yet you still take your life in your own hands sharing that road with busses?

boombang

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

You say the cycle lane is not the best, yet you still take your life in your own hands sharing that road with busses?

Not the point. Not helpful.

Salary Negotiator

I’d make the complaint now and follow up with the footage if and when it’s received.

I wouldn’t expect a favourable outcome though.

Utter Consternation

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

Did the bus driver actually intentionally try to run you over? You say the cycle lane is not the best, yet you still take your life in your own hands sharing that road with busses?

What is the alternative?

mr spuckler

Yes I've gotten footage, it's a slow process but the guy who runs it is sound - they're just completely overrun which is indicative of how many requests they get and hence the standard of driving...

You should get clips from a few different cameras depending on the age of the bus.

NuttyMcNutty

Wasn't trying to be critical or funny pal. I just see cyclists everyday and can't help but to wonder why they take the risk as the roads are clearly not designed for it. There maybe no alternative for yourself but I still say that its a big risk.

ted1

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

Did the bus driver actually intentionally try to run you over? You say the cycle lane is not the best, yet you still take your life in your own hands sharing that road with busses?

Yes I believe he did intentionally pass within a illegal safe distance .
I don’t believe victim blaming is allowed. Have you ever been on a bike?

mr spuckler

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

Did the bus driver actually intentionally try to run you over? You say the cycle lane is not the best, yet you still take your life in your own hands sharing that road with busses?

Cool attitude all round.
From the description the bus driver chose to endanger the OP. The presence of a cycle lane doesn't give the driver the right to do this and indeed the reason cycle lanes aren't mandatory in Ireland is because the government accept that in certain cases their condition makes things more dangerous than cycling on the road.
But yeah, bloody cyclists.

punisher5112

mr spuckler wrote: »

Yes I've gotten footage, it's a slow process but the guy who runs it is sound - they're just completely overrun which is indicative of how many requests they get and hence the standard of driving...

You should get clips from a few different cameras depending on the age of the bus.

Ridiculous, there is one guy, wouldn't be the quickest and anyone and everyone is putting in requests.....

The requests can be made by anybody for anything which there are people that do this all the time.

Dublin bus standard of driving is some of the best out there, yes 100% there are bad drivers but that comment stating it's slow because drivers are terrible been the reason is laughable.

ted1

MOD VOICE: Attack the post, not the poster

ted1

mr spuckler wrote: »

Yes I've gotten footage, it's a slow process but the guy who runs it is sound - they're just completely overrun which is indicative of how many requests they get and hence the standard of driving...

You should get clips from a few different cameras depending on the age of the bus.

Super good to hear. And in fairness I mailed last night and he has identified the bus and requested footage from the depot already.

L1011

This has reminded me I never got promised footage of a bus pulling out of in front of me about three years ago. Rather late to chase it up now but you may need to remind them if it doesn't turn up.

tnegun

I've submitted 2 requests one the CCTV wasn't working the other I got more than I could of asked for! The guy I dealt with was very prompt replying to email etc. and I couldn't fault him/the process. I complained to the garage and they took it up with the driver too. Probably better go that route as the Gardai don't seem interested in prosecuting these and more chance of getting it recorded on the drivers file in case its a repeat offender rather than one off.

magicbastarder

ted1 wrote: »

Let’s call a spade a spade. You were being a dick.

Get on a bike and try to use a cycle lane. If you can’t post a helpful comment, just stay quiet

mod note - if you think someone is posting something they shouldn't, report the post. either way, refrain from the above.

stoneybats

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

Wasn't trying to be critical or funny pal. I just see cyclists everyday and can't help but to wonder why they take the risk as the roads are clearly not designed for it. There maybe no alternative for yourself but I still say that its a big risk.

"We found that cycling to work was associated with a 41% lower risk of dying overall compared to commuting by car or public transport. Cycle commuters had a 52% lower risk of dying from heart disease and a 40% lower risk of dying from cancer. They also had 46% lower risk of developing heart disease and a 45% lower risk of developing cancer at all." - BMJ 2017.

Why take the risk of not cycling to work?

NuttyMcNutty

MOD VOICE: Do not respond

NuttyMcNutty

stoneybats wrote: »

"We found that cycling to work was associated with a 41% lower risk of dying overall compared to commuting by car or public transport. Cycle commuters had a 52% lower risk of dying from heart disease and a 40% lower risk of dying from cancer. They also had 46% lower risk of developing heart disease and a 45% lower risk of developing cancer at all." - BMJ 2017.

Why take the risk of not cycling to work?

The OP said the cycle lane he uses was not the best, not saying don't cycle to work, I just wouldn't.

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Let's stay on topic please. OP is asking about reporting the driver, not whether cycling on the road is safe or not.

Thanks

mr spuckler

punisher5112 wrote: »

that comment stating it's slow because drivers are terrible been the reason is laughable.

In your opinion and I'll politely disagree.

punisher5112

mr spuckler wrote: »

In your opinion and I'll politely disagree.

Actually no not imo.....


I work there and I stand behind what I said, we actually get some of the best training and it's taken very seriously.

I've had spurious claims over the years and I actually love having the CCTV inside and out to show I was professional and courteous to other road users.

I've actually had people onboard and cyclists themselves comment on how we as a majority drive and give space.

The latest complaint that I had sent in was from a person whom stated they were cycling and I was driving in the cycle lane and tried to kill them.....
Little more information went like this.... The person wrote in their complaint letter that they were wearing a black hat, a black coat, black trousers oh and a black bag.... Bizarre facts to add to a complaint but anyway, they continue to write that I drove at them in the cycle lane and this was bold......


Now yes I'll admit no issues I was in the cycle lane and I was in motion but the bus is actually quite wide and much longer..... The bus didn't fit in the road space provided unless I was in the cycle lane as otherwise I would be driving into oncoming traffic over a continuous white line, oh did I mention the cycle lane was a broken white line for this exact reason.....

Right now back to reality.....


The real story,

I was driving a bus, I was driving along in a traffic lane which has a small section where there is a broken white line cycle lane which then ends and become a shared bus lane, I was mid way passed a side road when complainant walked his bike out from the side road, he continued to walk out and as he was now right along side the bus he punched the rear side engine door and was shouting, I had obviously slowed as I wasn't sure if he would walk out or not......

So a short time passes and I'm further up the road waiting at a junction when I can only guess whom was the complainant cycles by abusing me and calling me names and flips the bird... He then proceeds to cycle through the red traffic lights in front of crossing vehicles....

tnegun

This thread prompted me to go looking for my own footage, to give you an idea of what you get it's here https://streamable.com/16nuk, here https://streamable.com/m2v0s and here https://streamable.com/zoyqq . I laughed at the last one with the red bike warning :pac: . It wasn't funny at the time as I wasn't as confident a cyclist and was quite quite dangerous as the driver used the bus to and horn to push me out of the way. More infuriating he pulled in at the next stop!

Anyway I've 14000km done commuting from Kildare to Dublin and back daily in the past 3 years. A lot of that shares and crosses several DB bus routes and of 1000's of passes etc with DB I've had 3 incidents that standout the worst above.

Dr_Colossus

Can't help the OP but just to back up some of what punisher5112 (unfitting name for a Dublin bus driver) wrote above. I've been cycling all over Dublin for over 20 years and I find Dublin bus drivers very good on the whole and improving all the time. In those years I've only had two incidents I would call dangerous and they were many years ago. The past 4 years my commute has seen me cycle the length of the quays morning and evening and the drivers have quite honestly been great. No connection with Dublin bus but they do get an unfair wrap at times and as professionals are streets ahead of any other company or mode of transport.

ted1

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Can't help the OP but just to back up some of what punisher5112 (unfitting name for a Dublin bus driver) wrote above. I've been cycling all over Dublin for over 20 years and I find Dublin bus drivers very good on the whole and improving all the time. In those years I've only had two incidents I would call dangerous and they were many years ago. The past 4 years my commute has seen me cycle the length of the quays morning and evening and the drivers have quite honestly been great. No connection with Dublin bus but they do get an unfair wrap at times and as professionals are streets ahead of any other company or mode of transport.

Absolutely, I’ve clocked up several thousand probably 50+ over the past few years and this is the first time I felt the urge to make a complaint, and I pass hundred of busses daily who are courteous and careful. But there will always be a bad egg and this driver must be one.

ArthurG

I've previously reported a bus driver to the Gardai for dangerous driving. The Gardai got the CCTV no problem and were able to corroborate my story.

They asked me what I wanted to do - prosecute or have a warning issued. I went with a warning.

Wishbone Ash

punisher5112 wrote: »

... we actually get some of the best training and it's taken very seriously.....

Does any part of the training include informing drivers that cyclists have no legal requirement to use cycle tracks? the only time I get any hassle from DB drivers is when I'm legally cycling along a bus lane with a segregated off road cycle track - generally a close pass or driving close behind while leaning on the horn.

Better Than Christ

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Does any part of the training include informing drivers that cyclists have no legal requirement to use cycle tracks? the only time I get any hassle from DB drivers is when I'm legally cycling along a bus lane with a segregated off road cycle track - generally a close pass or driving close behind while leaning on the horn.

That's one of my pet hates as a driver. Getting stuck behind a cyclist and being unable to safely get past. Passing closely and misusing the horn is completely unacceptable (and as far as I'm concerned, not an option), but do you not think it's a bit inconsiderate - one cyclist dictating the pace of up to 70 people because he doesn't want to use the cycle lane? I know cycle lanes are mostly very poor, but it seems unfair to punish public transport users. Like cyclists, they also tend to get the rough end of the stick where infrastructure is concerned.

Wishbone Ash

Better Than Christ wrote: »

.... but do you not think it's a bit inconsiderate - one cyclist dictating the pace of up to 70 people because he doesn't want to use the cycle lane?...

No - for a few reasons:

1. DB drivers do this when the other lanes are free but rather than utilise them, they have a go at the cyclist instead.
2. It's perfectly legal and therefore they have to take the rough with the smooth.
3. DB drivers do it even when they have to pull in at the next stop cycling is often faster than the bus.
4. The cyclist is not holding up the 70 people - it's all those drivers clogging up the roads in private (usually single occupied) cars which are holding up bus users. A bicycle is 100% occupied when on the road.
5. Why not ban taxis from bus lanes to speed up buses instead?

PS - just in case you think I don't know what it's like, I used to be a bus driver.

ted1

Better Than Christ wrote: »

That's one of my pet hates as a driver. Getting stuck behind a cyclist and being unable to safely get past. Passing closely and misusing the horn is completely unacceptable (and as far as I'm concerned, not an option), but do you not think it's a bit inconsiderate - one cyclist dictating the pace of up to 70 people because he doesn't want to use the cycle lane? I know cycle lanes are mostly very poor, but it seems unfair to punish public transport users. Like cyclists, they also tend to get the rough end of the stick where infrastructure is concerned.

They bus will stop at a bus stop, and hold the cyclist up. Cars in the bus lane trying to cut in and blocking yellow boxes is a much bigger reason for delays.

In my case the N11 has two other lanes fir busses to use. Also sped limit for the bus lane is 60 but 80 in the other lanes

Better Than Christ

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

No - for a few reasons:

1. DB drivers do this when the other lanes are free but rather than utilise them, they have a go at the cyclist instead.
2. It's perfectly legal and therefore they have to take the rough with the smooth.
3. DB drivers do it even when they have to pull in at the next stop cycling is often faster than the bus.
4. The cyclist is not holding up the 70 people - it's all those drivers clogging up the roads in private (usually single occupied) cars which are holding up bus users. A bicycle is 100% occupied when on the road.
5. Why not ban taxis from bus lanes to speed up buses instead?

On the rare occasion that the other lane is free and I'm 100% sure I'll be well clear of the cyclist by the time I reach the next bus stop, I always completely leave the bus lane to complete the overtake. More often than not though, I (and all my passengers) have no choice but to sit patiently behind the bike. I've often had passengers miss connecting buses as a direct result of getting stuck behind cyclists in the bus lane. I'd love to blame private cars for this (because they are the real enemy, as far as I'm concerned), but I can't help feeling that cyclists should have some manners and give way to a 100% occupied bus.

ted1 wrote:

They bus will stop at a bus stop, and hold the cyclist up. Cars in the bus lane trying to cut in and blocking yellow boxes is a much bigger reason for delays.

In my case the N11 has two other lanes fir busses to use. Also sped limit for the bus lane is 60 but 80 in the other lanes

What's worse though? A bus with 70 passengers holding one cyclist up, or one cyclist holding a bus with 70 passengers up? I'd be inclined to prioritise the 70 people, tbh. Especially on stretches where the cyclist has another option - albeit an imperfect one - in the form of a cycle path.

Hurrache

Better Than Christ wrote: »

On the rare occasion that the other lane is free and I'm 100% sure I'll be well clear of the cyclist by the time I reach the next bus stop, I always completely leave the bus lane to complete the overtake. More often than not though, I (and all my passengers) have no choice but to sit patiently behind the bike. I've often had passengers miss connecting buses as a direct result of getting stuck behind cyclists in the bus lane. I'd love to blame private cars for this (because they are the real enemy, as far as I'm concerned), but I can't help feeling that cyclists should have some manners and give way to a 100% occupied bus.



What's worse though? A bus with 70 passengers holding one cyclist up, or one cyclist holding a bus with 70 passengers up? I'd be inclined to prioritise the 70 people, tbh. Especially on stretches where the cyclist has another option - albeit an imperfect one - in the form of a cycle path.

So much nonsense here.

However it's a good insight into why some bus drivers are absolute assholes around people on bikes.

Better Than Christ

Hurrache wrote: »

So much nonsense here.

However it's a good insight into why some bus drivers are absolute assholes around people on bikes.

I sit patiently behind them and always give a lot more space than I'm legally required to. Not sure how that equates to being an 'asshole'.

ted1

Better Than Christ wrote: »

On the rare occasion that the other lane is free and I'm 100% sure I'll be well clear of the cyclist by the time I reach the next bus stop, I always completely leave the bus lane to complete the overtake. More often than not though, I (and all my passengers) have no choice but to sit patiently behind the bike. I've often had passengers miss connecting buses as a direct result of getting stuck behind cyclists in the bus lane. I'd love to blame private cars for this (because they are the real enemy, as far as I'm concerned), but I can't help feeling that cyclists should have some manners and give way to a 100% occupied bus.



What's worse though? A bus with 70 passengers holding one cyclist up, or one cyclist holding a bus with 70 passengers up? I'd be inclined to prioritise the 70 people, tbh. Especially on stretches where the cyclist has another option - albeit an imperfect one - in the form of a cycle path.

Odds are you drive a single occupancy car....

Better Than Christ

ted1 wrote: »

Odds are you drive a single occupancy car....

I drive a bus. And as much as possible, I travel as a passenger on them too. I'd happily ban single-occupancy cars at certain times of the day.

Wishbone Ash

Better Than Christ wrote: »

.... I (and all my passengers) have no choice but to sit patiently behind the bike. I've often had passengers miss connecting buses as a direct result of getting stuck behind cyclists in the bus lane....

If you have one person waiting at each stop on your route, or one person alighting at each stop, your passengers could also miss connecting bus routes. You are displaying the same misguided bias that so many other road users have for what they perceive is delaying them rather than for what is actually delaying them. You sound a bit like those who arrive late for work and they say that they got 'stuck behind a tractor' - no mention of the 1,000 other private car drivers on their route which actually delayed them.

micar

I know this section of road all too well. It's a complete disaster for cyclists going from on off road cycle lane onto an on road shared bus lane....plus it's coming from down hill section

Many incidences with motorists coming from behind at speed, over taking on the right, cutting across your path to take a left turn....some were absolutely frightening.

Thank God I no longer need to cycle up there.

Hope you ok OP.

Better Than Christ

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you have one person waiting at each stop on your route, or one person alighting at each stop, your passengers could also miss connecting bus routes. You are displaying the same misguided bias that so many other road users have for what they perceive is delaying them rather than for what is actually delaying them. You sound a bit like those who arrive late for work and they say that they got 'stuck behind a tractor' - no mention of the 1,000 other private car drivers on their route which actually delayed them.

The timetable is designed to facilitate people getting on and off. I'm not allowed to run early, so even if someone isn't waiting at a stop, I often find myself pulling in anyway to mitigate against early running. There have been times when I had been running on time and the presence of a cyclist in the bus lane was literally the only thing that delayed me, thus resulting in missed connections. Although I do accept that those passengers should plan their journeys better - if a cyclist delaying you by two minutes is enough to make you miss a connection, then it's probably worth getting an earlier bus.

On the flip side, there have been occasions when traffic is lighter than usual and I've used cyclists blocking bus lanes as an excuse to kill a bit of time, thus avoiding running early.

Hurrache

People on bikes don't block bus lanes.

There's the oul attitude again.

Wishbone Ash

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The timetable is designed to facilitate people getting on and off. I'm not allowed to run early, so even if someone isn't waiting at a stop, I often find myself pulling in anyway to mitigate against early running.....

The drivers on my DB route (the 33) certainly don't do that! I'm not a regular user but when I do, I have to allow a big difference from the scheduled time to the actual time of arrival. If there are less passengers, the bus could arrive 30 minutes ahead of schedule.

Better Than Christ

Hurrache wrote: »

People on bikes don't block bus lanes.

There's the oul attitude again.

They do. Regularly. Not that that in any way excuses bus drivers who get impatient and take it upon themselves to pass them unsafely.

Better Than Christ

Better Than Christ wrote: »

They do. Regularly. Not that that in any way excuses bus drivers who get impatient and take it upon themselves to pass them unsafely.

Do you think that some of them are taking that position in the lane to prevent such passes? Most of us here have the spidey-senses to know when the lane needs to be taken, once bitten and all that.

Better Than Christ

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The drivers on my DB route (the 33) certainly don't do that! I'm not a regular user but when I do, I have to allow a big difference from the scheduled time to the actual time of arrival. If there are less passengers, the bus could arrive 30 minutes ahead of schedule.

The company I drive for is contractually obliged to stick rigidly to the schedule. If the NTA have their way, Dublin Bus drivers will eventually have to do the same. Which might result in fewer incidents with cyclists, as drivers will no longer be rushing to the terminus for their extended breaks. It's one of the things that was rammed down my throat during induction - "don't take risks in order to gain time because you will never ever be punished for running late."

Hurrache

Better Than Christ wrote: »

They do. Regularly. Not that that in any way excuses bus drivers who get impatient and take it upon themselves to pass them unsafely.

No, they don't. They use them, like they're entitled to.

Midnight_EG

Better Than Christ wrote: »

They do. Regularly. Not that that in any way excuses bus drivers who get impatient and take it upon themselves to pass them unsafely.

As a bus driver, you're not going to win in the Cycling Forum :P

ted1

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The timetable is designed to facilitate people getting on and off. I'm not allowed to run early, so even if someone isn't waiting at a stop, I often find myself pulling in anyway to mitigate against early running. There have been times when I had been running on time and the presence of a cyclist in the bus lane was literally the only thing that delayed me, thus resulting in missed connections. Although I do accept that those passengers should plan their journeys better - if a cyclist delaying you by two minutes is enough to make you miss a connection, then it's probably worth getting an earlier bus.

On the flip side, there have been occasions when traffic is lighter than usual and I've used cyclists blocking bus lanes as an excuse to kill a bit of time, thus avoiding running early.

If you think that cyclist hold you up. You need to look at your driving. A cyclist in front of you may hold you up, but you then pull into a stop. Then the cyclist moves in. All you have to do is accelerate a little more to make up the most ground.


But back in topic. This driver was driving both dangerously and illegally. At the time of over taking I was doing 37.4 kmh, so wasn’t moving to slow. Especially as we weren’t to far off the lights.

ted1

Better Than Christ wrote: »

They do. Regularly. Not that that in any way excuses bus drivers who get impatient and take it upon themselves to pass them unsafely.

Watch this video. https://youtu.be/BapFZkvQHmY

Better Than Christ

ted1 wrote:

If you think that cyclist hold you up. You need to look at your driving. A cyclist in front of you may hold you up, but you then pull into a stop. Then the cyclist moves in. All you have to do is accelerate a little more to make up the most ground.

I look at my driving all the time, especially where cyclists are concerned. I'm more than aware that a momentary lapse of concentration on my part, something as simple as looking in the wrong mirror at the wrong time, could kill someone. And then there's the issue of common courtesy. For example, there are plenty of occasions, especially on the N11 northbound between Foxrock church and Stillorgan (like here, where there is a shared bus/cycle lane), when I've stopped dead in the bus lane, to allow cyclists to pass me on the inside before pulling into a stop.

ted1 wrote: »

Watch this video. https://youtu.be/BapFZkvQHmY

I don't know why you're telling me to watch that. As far as I'm concerned, if a cyclist insists on using a bus lane, they should obviously position themselves away from the kerb in a way that reduces the chance of any impatient driver (bus or taxi) attempting to squeeze past them.

punisher5112

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Does any part of the training include informing drivers that cyclists have no legal requirement to use cycle tracks? the only time I get any hassle from DB drivers is when I'm legally cycling along a bus lane with a segregated off road cycle track - generally a close pass or driving close behind while leaning on the horn.

Funny you say that.... I get a lot of hassle and abuse off cyclists believing the cycle lane is theirs, also in bus lanes and other roads now that have the bike symbol painted on the road.

Yes training is provided but when Leo opened it up from must use a cycle lane when provided they still didn't fix the wording on the statute.

micar

punisher5112 wrote: »

Funny you say that.... I get a lot of hassle and abuse off cyclists believing the cycle lane is theirs

Funny you saying that. I've been told 4 times recently by motorists that I'm not allowed to cycle outside the cycle lane

Twice I was over taking a cyclist .
Once I was over taking a lorry parked in the cycle lane .....seems it was only visible to me
Once by a motorits in the bus lane as had moved outside to prepare myself for having to cross 2 lanes to get to my right hand turn

AndrewJRenko

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Can't help the OP but just to back up some of what punisher5112 (unfitting name for a Dublin bus driver) wrote above. I've been cycling all over Dublin for over 20 years and I find Dublin bus drivers very good on the whole and improving all the time. In those years I've only had two incidents I would call dangerous and they were many years ago. The past 4 years my commute has seen me cycle the length of the quays morning and evening and the drivers have quite honestly been great. No connection with Dublin bus but they do get an unfair wrap at times and as professionals are streets ahead of any other company or mode of transport.

My growing concern about DB drivers has little to do with cyclists. It is the way that they frequently block key junctions, along the Grand Canal for example, sometimes the bike lane junctions and sometimes the car junctions. It's not unusual to see that the bus driver has forced their vehicle into the junction and then seems hugely surprised to find heavy traffic in rush hour has not allowed them to clear the junction.

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The company I drive for is contractually obliged to stick rigidly to the schedule. If the NTA have their way, Dublin Bus drivers will eventually have to do the same. Which might result in fewer incidents with cyclists, as drivers will no longer be rushing to the terminus for their extended breaks. It's one of the things that was rammed down my throat during induction - "don't take risks in order to gain time because you will never ever be punished for running late."

This is very good to hear.

punisher5112

Was stuck behind a Gocar in ballsbridge earlier, the passenger was holding the phone up on the dash and the driver was looking at it and pointing etc.... She couldn't keep to the lane and was going left and right..,.

Got to a cyclist and how she didn't throw him off the bike is beyond me as she brushed his clothes with the car mirror, she hadn't a breeze, get to junction she stop nowhere near it, then turns right but decides last second to cross 4 lanes to go left....