Should Ireland and the rest of Europe take in more migrants based in Turkey?

Varik

Greece will not be sanctioned, the UNHCR only has supervisory powers and can't enforce anything and there is no means to mechanism for individuals to file complaints to them.

There will be no EU, ICC, or UN sanctions on Greece, and there has never been any sanction imposed on countries violating it. The worst they'll get is finger wagging from those far removed from the problem.

The fact the EU is more than happy to deploy frontex to greece in spite of this proves that.

1st dalkey dalkey

alastair wrote: »

Except I’ve seen nobody assert an unshakable faith in the law. But this law is a matter of fact, and there’s nothing to suggest it needs change, or has any popular moment behind reform.

Nothing to suggest it needs change?

Maybe the response to Ms. Merkels morally justifiable but politically disastrous decision to open borders without consultation with her own polity, never mind her neighbours.
Maybe the success of right wing leaders in Hungary and Poland whose anti immigration platform gives them electoral success.
Maybe Brexit, although that was just against any foreigners, not necessarily asylum seekers or refugees.
No one is suggesting scrapping our law entirely, just amending it to reflect reality.
Open borders, unlimited access, is quite simply not politically sustainable.

AlekSmart

alastair wrote: »

The laws have not changed. Coronavirus or no Coronavirus.

You reckon ?

Put another way,do you suppose that any E.U. member States are currently lining up to accept any of Mr Erdogan's latest Afri/Arabic refugees,many of whom will attempt to utilize the 'fleeing persecution' route to achieve asylum status ?

I venture to suggest that in the current climate,and for quite a while into the future,the debate about legality of refusing 'Asylum' claims will be moot,as the claimants will rarely get within an asses roar of the E.U. States they have paid to reach.

Mr Erdogan may well be a savvy modern Turkish politician,but methinks he has been outfoxed by Mother Nature this time around.

If the Greeks hold the E.U border line,and I see no indications that they will not,Turkey may yet have to deal with becoming the destination rather than the via point on this route ?

But,perhaps Turkish law might also have to be factored in too ?

alastair

AlekSmart wrote: »

You reckon ?

Put another way,do you suppose that any E.U. member States are currently lining up to accept any of Mr Erdogan's latest Afri/Arabic refugees,many of whom will attempt to utilize the 'fleeing persecution' route to achieve asylum status ?

I venture to suggest that in the current climate,and for quite a while into the future,the debate about legality of refusing 'Asylum' claims will be moot,as the claimants will rarely get within an asses roar of the E.U. States they have paid to reach.

Mr Erdogan may well be a savvy modern Turkish politician,but methinks he has been outfoxed by Mother Nature this time around.

If the Greeks hold the E.U border line,and I see no indications that they will not,Turkey may yet have to deal with becoming the destination rather than the via point on this route ?

But,perhaps Turkish law might also have to be factored in too ?

Turkey is the destination for far more refugees than the EU has been. That’s been the case from the start of the Syrian conflict. There’s over 3.5 million Syrians currently in Turkey. And the deal negotiated between the EU and a Turkey is supposed to share the burden of Syrian refugees on a 1:1 basis - so there should be plenty of those refugees ‘getting within an asses roar’ of the EU. We’ve made an agreement to do exactly that.

toffee dave

alastair wrote: »

Turkey is the destination for far more refugees than the EU has been. That’s been the case from the start of the Syrian conflict. There’s over 3.5 million Syrians currently in Turkey. And the deal negotiated between the EU and a Turkey is supposed to share the burden of Syrian refugees on a 1:1 basis - so there should be plenty of those refugees ‘getting within an asses roar’ of the EU. We’ve made an agreement to do exactly that.

Are the numbers of Syrian refugees capped at 72000 under the terms of that deal.

ArchXStanton

Was watching this documentary from 2003, seems this battle between the Greeks and Turks over immigrants goes as far back as then... 56:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg-RZPS3eZE

Dude89

McGiver wrote: »

How many asylums were granted last year? How much did it cost?

Its the issuing of Leave To Remain Visas to failed asylum seekers that have exhausted their appeals is the problem.

alastair

Dude89 wrote: »

Its the issuing of Leave To Remain Visas to failed asylum seekers that have exhausted their appeals is the problem.

It is? How many would that be then?

Varik

Apparent US ISIS militant got deported from Turkey but refused to go to the US, so they threw him towards the Greek border where he's stuck. Turkish forces not letting him move away from border and Greek obviously don't want him.

4068ac1elhodqr

Think the EU is considering offering them €2k each to go away (to return home from Greece: to Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afganistan, W.Africa etc).
However this free cash will simply be used to upgrade the mobile phones, new runners, and payments to traffickers or a much longer dig-in.

Meanwhile EU states now actively and instantly able to close their own internal borders, without having to hand out any free thousands of €'s to random economic migrants.

alastair

Abraham Happy Oaf wrote: »

Think the EU is considering offering them €2k each to go away (to return home from Greece: to Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afganistan, W.Africa etc).
However this free cash will simply be used to upgrade the mobile phones, new runners, and payments to traffickers or a much longer dig-in.

Meanwhile EU states now actively and instantly able to close their own internal borders, without having to hand out any free thousands of €'s to random economic migrants.

The IOM voluntary return scheme (and any associated payments) involve being accompanied to the airport and getting on a flight to your home country. Not too sure how that’s supposed to tally with ‘digging in’?

1800_Ladladlad

A perfect opportunity for the many migrant cheerleaders far and wide on the island to be the first to rent out a room to welcome asylum seekers from Somalia, Pakistan, and the likes, but who will prove that they are not all mouth. They should even offer them a room for free! Why haven't they thought of this before now!


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/government-to-consider-rent-a-room-proposals-for-asylum-seekers-1.4202430?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Sultan of Bling

1800_Ladladlad wrote:

A perfect opportunity for the many migrant cheerleaders far and wide on the island to be the first to rent out a room to welcome asylum seekers from Somalia, Pakistan, and the likes, but who will prove that they are not all mouth. They should even offer them a room for free! Why haven't they thought of this before now!

This is a fantastic idea. They should open it up to members of the travelling community who can't find a stable home.

There are numerous politicians and Rte presenters who have publically stated they would have no issues with direct provision centres or halting sites in their locality.

Galwayguy35

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

A perfect opportunity for the many migrant cheerleaders far and wide on the island to be the first to rent out a room to welcome asylum seekers from Somalia, Pakistan, and the likes, but who will prove that they are not all mouth. They should even offer them a room for free! Why haven't they thought of this before now!


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/government-to-consider-rent-a-room-proposals-for-asylum-seekers-1.4202430?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Yes lets see the upper middle class women who hold up the "I welcome refugees" posters give a room in Daddies house for them.

alastair

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

A perfect opportunity for the many migrant cheerleaders far and wide on the island to be the first to rent out a room to welcome asylum seekers from Somalia, Pakistan, and the likes, but who will prove that they are not all mouth. They should even offer them a room for free! Why haven't they thought of this before now!


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/government-to-consider-rent-a-room-proposals-for-asylum-seekers-1.4202430?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Ehh, this type arrangement has been in operation through the Red Cross in Ireland for years. As already mentioned in this very thread.

4068ac1elhodqr

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yes lets see the upper middle class women who hold up the "I welcome refugees" posters give a room in Daddies house for them.

Over in Engerland many of the middle-class towns have been subjected to the trails of (decades long) large grooming gangs of a spefic ethnic trait.

You wouldn't think smart and classy Oxford would have fallen foul to such a thing (as dozens of other towns have). They'd have more sense, right?

But a trail concluded very recently, reckons these 21, have left a trial of hundreds of victims behind them:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-51467518

Blueshoe

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

A perfect opportunity for the many migrant cheerleaders far and wide on the island to be the first to rent out a room to welcome asylum seekers from Somalia, Pakistan, and the likes, but who will prove that they are not all mouth. They should even offer them a room for free! Why haven't they thought of this before now!


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/government-to-consider-rent-a-room-proposals-for-asylum-seekers-1.4202430?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Fantastic idea. It has been mentioned here already but I'd like to see a ramping up of this programme. There seems to be no shortage of people who are in favour of helping out our share of refugees. This is their chance to help make the world a better place.

Let's close the centres and let people open their homes. So exciting

Mr. teddywinkles

Blueshoe wrote: »

Fantastic idea. It has been mentioned here already but I'd like to see a ramping up of this programme. There seems to be no shortage of people who are in favour of helping out our share of refugees. This is their chance to help make the world a better place.

Let's close the centres and let people open their homes. So exciting

All those on boards first. Need real confirmation too. At least about 3 years of this. I mean roomy style.

mvl

also interesting is the current financial incentive (called voluntary returns initiative), available for a month to migrant-refugees on greek islands: 2000 EUR to go back home/reintegrate.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-among-7-eu-countries-to-take-in-1600-refugee-children/a-52740463

then, in same article the news about 7 countries accepting these 1600 kids - must read more what it refers to ...

DelaneyIn

The Government will consider proposals to encourage homeowners with an empty room to rent it to asylum seekers who have been given permission to stay in Ireland.

The measure is intended to tackle enormous strains in finding a place to live for asylum seekers after they have been allowed to remain here.

The suggestion forms part of the considerations of an inter-departmental group looking at the direct provision system.

A submission for Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe from his officials at the Department of Public Expenditure explained how it would be a “significantly cheaper option” than providing emergency accommodation.
There are 7,271 people in the direct provision system, of whom 1,585 are living in commercial accommodation premises.

The submission explained how getting a place to live is proving so difficult for many successful asylum seekers that some are choosing to stay in the direct provision system.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/government-to-consider-rent-a-room-proposals-for-asylum-seekers-1.4202430?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Any takers? A chance for those who insist we open our borders to practice what they preach.

Galwayguy35

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/government-to-consider-rent-a-room-proposals-for-asylum-seekers-1.4202430?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Any takers? A chance for those who insist we open our borders to practice what they preach.

Liam Cunningham very quiet on this one, he usually has a lot to say telling us we should be taking in every Tom Dick and Harry that shows up.

AlekSmart

alastair wrote: »

Turkey is the destination for far more refugees than the EU has been. That’s been the case from the start of the Syrian conflict. There’s over 3.5 million Syrians currently in Turkey. And the deal negotiated between the EU and a Turkey is supposed to share the burden of Syrian refugees on a 1:1 basis - so there should be plenty of those refugees ‘getting within an asses roar’ of the EU. We’ve made an agreement to do exactly that.

Any update on how that 'agreement' is going today ?

AlekSmart

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Agreement being a very changeable oh I don't know the word. Oh yes there it is agreement. Does Europe feel like it's being attacked on all fronts lately or is it paranoia maybe mine?

Eh.....it's probably only you...and maybe Nostradamus ?

Varik

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/government-to-consider-rent-a-room-proposals-for-asylum-seekers-1.4202430?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Any takers? A chance for those who insist we open our borders to practice what they preach.

Going by this new proposal and the fact Ireland hasn't agreed to take in any of the 1500 "children" in greece when they were so fast to volunteer before, I'm going to guess Ireland won't be taking too many of them in the future either.

DelaneyIn

alastair wrote: »

Ehh, this type arrangement has been in operation through the Red Cross in Ireland for years. As already mentioned in this very thread.

Mustn’t have had much of a pick up in response if they’re attempting to roll it out again.

I suspect very few will practice what they preach. Just like in Sweden.

alastair

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Mustn’t have had much of a pick up in response if they’re attempting to roll it out again.

I suspect very few will practice what they preach. Just like in Sweden.

They’re not ‘rolling it out again’. It’s a separate proposed initiative, by the government, not the Red Cross, and for asylum seekers, not refugees. The Red Cross scheme has been pretty successful afaik. I personally know of two households who have Syrians living with them.

alastair

Varik wrote: »

Going by this new proposal and the fact Ireland hasn't agreed to take in any of the 1500 "children" in greece when they were so fast to volunteer before, I'm going to guess Ireland won't be taking too many of them in the future either.

Except we are taking some of those kids in.

On Thursday, it emerged that Croatia and Ireland have joined Finland, France, Germany, Luxembourg and Portugal in agreeing to take in unaccompanied minors. Around 1,600 children will be distributed among the seven countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/eu-to-offer-2000-to-migrants-willing-to-go-home-from-greek-islands

Bobblehats

alastair wrote: »

Except we are taking some of those kids in

Well if Sharon was anyone to go by on RTE current affairs yesterday we should be taking in many; many more.

Little lump in her throat somewhere in there but point taken..

jackofalltrades

alastair wrote: »

The Red Cross scheme has been pretty successful afaik. I personally know of two households who have Syrians living with them.

I'm sure if the scheme was an actual success you'd have posted a link with some hard evidence a long time ago, rather than relying on anecdotal evidence.

Kivaro

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I'm sure if the scheme was an actual success you'd have posted a link with some hard evidence a long time ago, rather than relying on anecdotal evidence.

Anecdotal evidence is fine (apparently) if the poster represents the view that Ireland should take in every asylum seeker from all over the planet. For those of us who want a reasoned and logical and sustainable approach to non-EU migration and genuine asylum intake, only notarised links will be acceptable. And then those links will be ignored when they prove that open borders will ultimately destroy our small little country in the Altantic ocean at the far reaches of Europe.

We don't have to wonder why so many Africans, Pakistanis etc. want to get to our cold, wet Island, but with the onset of Covid-19, our social welfare system will begin to collapse and then the real questions will be asked about the previous de facto open borders that existed the last number of years.

And do not be surprised when the government announces that all asylum applicants currently in the system will be granted amnesty due to Covid-19. And all of these people will go straight on welfare and receive priority housing.
The 140,000 who woke up this morning without jobs might find that situation a tad unfair.