Norwegian air

TomSweeney

Whats the story with Norwegian air, I know they were in trouble even before this virus outbreak, but I read somewhere they had some bond deal that would make them stable at least till the autumn of this year .


Now some people are saying they will be gone under in a few weeks ?

What you reckon ?

Locker10a

Do you have flights booked with them?
It’s hard to know tbh, Norwegian have been on deaths door for years now it seems, airlines that appeared to struggle less have disappeared faster, like Monarch and Thomas Cook, but the likes of Flybe and Norwegian seem to get by somehow

TomSweeney

Yes, booked to Oslo and on to Narvik in July ..

Tenzor07

All the big airlines such as the IAG group, Easyjet and Ryanair won't escape from the CV crisis... So it won't be just Norwegian...

Locker10a

Tenzor07 wrote: »

All the big airlines such as the IAG group, Easyjet and Ryanair won't escape from the CV crisis... So it won't be just Norwegian...

Sure, it will affect them all but IAG group, Ryanair and Easyjet all have very healthy balance sheets, Norwegian don’t

Tenzor07

Locker10a wrote: »

Sure, it will affect them all but IAG group, Ryanair and Easyjet all have very healthy balance sheets, Norwegian don’t

Well, if it's the vultures circling and looking for blood as they usually do around Norwegian air then you're right....

...I dare say a few on the forum will be around with plenty of gleeful "I told you so's" if and when that happened...

L1011

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Well, if it's the vultures circling and looking for blood as they usually do around Norwegian air then you're right....

...I dare say a few on the forum will be around with plenty of gleeful "I told you so's" if and when that happened...

When it comes to Norwegian, predicting they'll hit the wall is just getting towards stopped clock levels of claiming to be right

I'm quite sure they'll go bankrupt eventually too, but I've had that opinion since the 787 grounding and it hasn't happened yet, so I have no grounds for told-you-so!

Tenzor07

L1011 wrote: »

I'm quite sure they'll go bankrupt eventually too, but I've had that opinion since the 787 grounding and it hasn't happened yet, so I have no grounds for told-you-so!

Hold on in there, you'll get your reward.... eventually....

Locker10a

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Hold on in there, you'll get your reward.... eventually....

I don’t think anyone here will be claiming any reward , that’s a silly comment, Norwegian’s financial struggles have been well reported in the media over the past year, the status of their business viability isn’t hearsay or opinion it’s know facts and figures, they’re doing their best to survive, market conditions outside their control may prove to much or they may not, time will tell

TomSweeney

Like I mentioned they did have some bond deal (whatever that means) that was supposed to shore up finances for a year or so (last September 2019) so I was thinking it be safe till Autumn this year at least - it is just kicking the can down the road, now I don't know markets and whether or not this bond deal will still hold despite the CV19 situation.

TomSweeney

Flybe gone .... only a matter of time I fear ...

Coil Kilcrea

It’s unlikely that any financial modelling would factor in the fall in loads that will result from this virus.

I hope they survive. To have struggled for so long and to have endured through it all is admirable.

This is beyond the realms of the free market.

TomSweeney

https://twitter.com/Fly_Norwegian/status/1235476145052635136?s=20

hmmm optimistic ...

Van.Bosch

TomSweeney wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Fly_Norwegian/status/1235476145052635136?s=20

hmmm optimistic ...

Doesn’t actually say anything of substance at all!

Tenzor07

TomSweeney wrote: »

Yes, booked to Oslo and on to Narvik in July ..

By credit card or your debit card?

theunforgiven

Sorry to jump into this thread but I'm due to fly to Dublin,from Stockholm via Oslo in June.
Paid by credit card.

Tenzor07

theunforgiven wrote: »

Sorry to jump into this thread but I'm due to fly to Dublin,from Stockholm via Oslo in June.
Paid by credit card.

If you paid by CC and NAI go under then you can claim a refund off your CC company...

theunforgiven

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If you paid by CC and NAI go under then you can claim a refund off your CC company...

Thanks.
That's some consolation. The only thing, direct flights with SAS on the same day is $1,300 for the 4 of us. Might cancel the outbound flights if they do go under and not go at all.

That's if flights aren't ground with the virus.

wetoutside19

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If you paid by CC and NAI go under then you can claim a refund off your CC company...

You might want to caveat your advice to say that there is a time limit which starts ticking after you book (I understand 120days with most credit card providers)

L1011

Changed a few years ago to 120 days after date of intended service to cover this and concerts etc.

theunforgiven

Anyone have any idea when those who have booked flights will be informed that their flight is one of the cancelled ones?

TomSweeney

Tenzor07 wrote: »

By credit card or your debit card?

Credit Card ... and +1 to that question about being notified about being one of the 3k flights cancelled ?

TomSweeney

From their website
Information on upcoming cancellations
Due to the COVID-19 situation, Norwegian is preparing to cancel approximately 3000 flights between mid-March and mid-June.

Please note: At this point we don’t yet have information available on which flights will be affected, but we will be contacting customers directly via SMS and email as soon as we have confirmed notifications.

https://norwegian.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/147/traffic-information

theunforgiven

Received an email telling me I can cancel my flights and be reimbursed in cash points...WTF...I'd like to get the refund back on my credit card..who knows when it'll be safe to leave the country again this year.
Anyone else receive their email...

Brian CivilEng

I got the same email. Trip to Norway planned in May for a family wedding. Don't think I'll be taking them up on the offer...

theunforgiven

abitofacomedian wrote: »

I got the same email. Trip to Norway planned in May for a family wedding. Don't think I'll be taking them up on the offer...

Any idea on how we can get our money back onto our cards rather than cash points, basically a voucher for flights that will no doubt have an expiration date.

JohnC.

theunforgiven wrote: »

Any idea on how we can get our money back onto our cards rather than cash points, basically a voucher for flights that will no doubt have an expiration date.

That, and there's no way to be sure they will still exist by the time this blows over.

theunforgiven

JohnC. wrote: »

That, and there's no way to be sure they will still exist by the time this blows over.

Exactly,bit of a scam, offering cash points with the company and the aviation industry on such shaky ground.

Coil Kilcrea

Did I read somewhere that the Norwegian government stepped in to safeguard the airline?

SAM SO NITE

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

Did I read somewhere that the Norwegian government stepped in to safeguard the airline?

they look bollocksed by all accounts

Coil Kilcrea

SAM SO NITE wrote: »

they look bollocksed by all accounts

In fairness to them, they provide a very good service and have fought hard to compete against much bigger competitors. True, you could argue the market will sort out the weak but in this case, on merit and jobs created, they deserve to succeed. I know they raised money through bonds which might have been sufficient but then they too got hammered by the Max fiasco.

All of the airlines will need government intervention to some extent because the scale of this crisis will over power even the strongest of balance sheets and you simply cannot throw all these people on the street. Much smarter and sensible to provide some temporary financial support to weather the storm. I'm thinking the Norwegian government is smart enough to do something.

Finally, IAG's $7 Billion and Ryanair's $4 Billion in cash reserves would normally be more than enough to handle any crisis but this is bigger than anything we ever imagined.

Valhallapt

I wonder will they get nationalised by the Norwegian government, don't the Norwegians already own a chunk of SAS which will need a bailout? It would be a reasonably good fit for Ryanair??

Jack1985

Valhallapt wrote: »

I wonder will they get nationalised by the Norwegian government, don't the Norwegians already own a chunk of SAS which will need a bailout? It would be a reasonably good fit for Ryanair??

Possibly.. but no airline will be purchasing another at the moment. Airlines worldwide have one goal, preserve cash.

TomSweeney

Is it possible to get a refund if you paid for flights with credit card on Norwegian ?
scheduled to fly to Norway on June 30, but so far all I've been offered is vouchers or reschedule - now reschedule would be grand, but I don't know will Norwegian air even exist in June/July 2021!!

theunforgiven

TomSweeney wrote: »

Is it possible to get a refund if you paid for flights with credit card on Norwegian ?
scheduled to fly to Norway on June 30, but so far all I've been offered is vouchers or reschedule - now reschedule would be grand, but I don't know will Norwegian air even exist in June/July 2021!!

I'd say Norwegian,more than most airlines are clinging onto as much cash as possible.
All I'm being offered is a voucher also. I was thinking that if I held off until the date of the flight had passed and could prove it was cancelled that I could put a chargeback through my CC.
As it stands, a voucher for E700 Euro, for an airline that mightn't exist in a few months time isn't a gamble I'm happy to take.
It also expires after 12 months....

Brian CivilEng

I was due to fly on 23rd May. They cancelled my flight on Wednesday and then it was possible to apply for a refund. The website really pushed the option to exchange for cash points at every step of the way though, so had to be vigilant.

I'll report back when they process my refund.

theunforgiven

That would be great, thanks.

TomSweeney

Cheers, I'm hoping for a refund too, just go on a better holiday next year with SAS ...

theunforgiven

TomSweeney wrote: »

Cheers, I'm hoping for a refund too, just go on a better holiday next year with SAS ...

My outward journey from Dublin was with SAS who seem to be giving refunds. I'll apply this week for that one.
Even though technically the flight hasn't been cancelled they seem to be offering full refunds.

Locker10a

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/15/norwegian-air-uk-pilots-and-cabin-crew-will-not-receive-april-salary-covid-19

“Pilots and cabin crew employed in the UK by the struggling airline Norwegian Air Shuttle have been told they will not receive their April salary because the airline does not have the money to pay them.”

smurfjed

Locker10a wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/15/norwegian-air-uk-pilots-and-cabin-crew-will-not-receive-april-salary-covid-19

“Pilots and cabin crew employed in the UK by the struggling airline Norwegian Air Shuttle have been told they will not receive their April salary because the airline does not have the money to pay them.”

Ouch, big time ouch, at least have the decency to tell your employees that they wont get paid before they do the work.

Pat Dunne

smurfjed wrote: »

Ouch, big time ouch, at least have the decency to tell your employees that they wont get paid before they do the work.

Unusual that they haven’t Furloughed their staff, so as to enable them collect the UK Covid 19 payment.

IngazZagni

News articles recently said they have temporarily sacked 90% of their workforce.
I know some of the pay in the airline World is often productivity based so the hours worked last month would be paid this month etc.

Tenzor07

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Unusual that they haven’t Furloughed their staff to collect the UK Covid 19 payment.

Not up to Norwegian to do that.

basill

Were they staff with permanent employment contracts or contractors or temporary workers subject to probationary periods. Also just because they report for duty at a work place in a certain jurisdiction it doesn't necessarily mean they have an employment contract with an employer based in same. Many of the worlds bottom feeder airlines have over the years attempted to circumvent social security and employment legislation and some still do.

Tenzor07

basill wrote: »

Were they staff with permanent employment contracts or contractors or temporary workers subject to probationary periods. Also just because they report for duty at a work place in a certain jurisdiction it doesn't necessarily mean they have an employment contract with an employer based in same. Many of the worlds bottom feeder airlines have over the years attempted to circumvent social security and employment legislation and some still do.

Exactly, as with RA cabin crew and some pilots, they are recruited by an agency and are classed by the airline as self employed contractors.

Pat Dunne

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Not up to Norwegian to do that.

How come?

Pat Dunne

basill wrote: »

Were they staff with permanent employment contracts or contractors or temporary workers subject to probationary periods. Also just because they report for duty at a work place in a certain jurisdiction it doesn't necessarily mean they have an employment contract with an employer based in same. Many of the worlds bottom feeder airlines have over the years attempted to circumvent social security and employment legislation and some still do.

My understanding is that Self Employed workers qualify for the Furlough scheme in the UK as well a directly contracted staff.

Locker10a

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Exactly, as with RA cabin crew and some pilots, they are recruited by an agency and are classed by the airline as self employed contractors.

I’m not aware or any Norwegian crew based in the UK who are self employed.
Perhaps it applies so a tiny number of pilots but Vast majority of crew are permanent staff employed by OSM, the HR arm owned by Norwegian. UK staff are unionised either with BALPA or UNITE for cabin crew. They have been told the company don’t have the cash to pay them right now

Tenzor07

Pat Dunne wrote: »

How come?

They are employed by OSM Aviation UK.

Pat Dunne

Tenzor07 wrote: »

They are employed by OSM Aviation UK.

I simply asked why the staff have not be furloughed and made eligible for the UK Covid 19 payment which is also open to self employed contractors.