Test - Shoulder checks

steamsey

Hi. Test coming up on Monday and am a bit confused after pre test yesterday.

I was told to only do shoulder checks during turns where you're on a major road, moving to a more minor road. Apparently they are failing people for too many shoulder checks. Does this sound right? I was told if driving in an estate, for example, to only check mirrors when turning.

zubair

steamsey wrote: »

Hi. Test coming up on Monday and am a bit confused after pre test yesterday.

I was told to only do shoulder checks during turns where you're on a major road, moving to a more minor road. Apparently they are failing people for too many shoulder checks. Does this sound right? I was told if driving in an estate, for example, to only check mirrors when turning.

Did you do a pre test lesson? There really shouldn't be anything blurry about when to shoulder check going into your test. You should definitely get more lessons or ask your current instructor about anything you're unsure of. Shoulder check when turning, all turns, and when you're changing lane position. As my instructor said, imagine you're in the city centre for the test.

The best of luck with it, let us know how you get on.

two wheels good

I doubt a failure is for too many shoulder-checks; more like shoulder checks at the wrong time.
As Zubair says, at all turns and lane changes. That includes exiting roundabouts.
Don't get hung-up on doing too many.Think about being consistent and actually looking into the blind-spot; not just an indifferent half-turn of the head.
Good luck and dry weather!

listermint

In its basic form you are going to be doing shoulder checks in your blind spots where you expect vehicles to come at you.

Changing lanes look over your shoulder fully so you can understand what's coming up in the lane your moving to

Doing a turn you will want to see who's coming both directions. Ahead and shoulder behind.

Coming around a roundabout , blindspots exist on your left when turning off a roundabout so should check to the left to know what vehicle is there or if someone is under cutting you.


Shoulder checks are for knowledge.


You should be glancing the mirrors every so often on straights to get a view of the road behind. Every so often not every thirty seconds.


All this comes natural it's about informing your brain with your eyes.

lalababa

Is it a big thing?..to stop in 1st gear as you need your right foot on brake when stopped therefore your left foot down.
Should you really always do this on a test?
I'm defo in the habit of having my right foot down as I haven't got into always going into 1st before stopping and my natural way is right foot down. (I also think I have a stiffness injury in my left side)
Would you get marked down if you haven't right foot on brake or if you were changing feet Abit to change down?

zubair

lalababa wrote: »

Is it a big thing?..to stop in 1st gear as you need your right foot on brake when stopped therefore your left foot down.
Should you really always do this on a test?
I'm defo in the habit of having my right foot down as I haven't got into always going into 1st before stopping and my natural way is right foot down. (I also think I have a stiffness injury in my left side)
Would you get marked down if you haven't right foot on brake or if you were changing feet Abit to change down?

Left for down for the test, and should be in first so no changing gears when stationary. The reason for this is so you can get away if an incident were to occur.

steamsey

Left foot down for test for sure.

I passed!! Tallaght - this morning. 1st attempt. Just about got it but delighted all the same. Did more shoulder checks than I was told to during pre test. Got a mark for failing to make progress and also for the overtake as I did not move out far enough past instructor's car. Also 2 marks for missing shoulder checks but I've no idea where as I thought I got them all. Got a mark for observation on the slow ride....again - no idea what I did wrong.

One question I was asked that I did not study for was what percentage front / back brake roughly in terms of stopping power - I said 70% front and he seemed to accept it. All other questions were expected ones.

IrishGrimReaper

Didn't know they asked that question. Should have answered 100% stopping power from the front sir as rear brakes don't work.

Congratulations on passing the test

zubair

Grats!

clelia!

steamsey wrote: »

Left foot down for test for sure.

I passed!! Tallaght - this morning. 1st attempt. Just about got it but delighted all the same. Did more shoulder checks than I was told to during pre test. Got a mark for failing to make progress and also for the overtake as I did not move out far enough past instructor's car. Also 2 marks for missing shoulder checks but I've no idea where as I thought I got them all. Got a mark for observation on the slow ride....again - no idea what I did wrong.

One question I was asked that I did not study for was what percentage front / back brake roughly in terms of stopping power - I said 70% front and he seemed to accept it. All other questions were expected ones.

Congratulations on passing! It must be some relief.

I'm doing my test for the first time on weds in tallaght. Any tips?

When did you do shoulder checks in the test? I have only been checking my blindspot changing lanes and moving off from side of road.

Thanks in advance!

two wheels good

zubair wrote: »

Left for down for the test, and should be in first so no changing gears when stationary. The reason for this is so you can get away if an incident were to occur.

Is that the official message to learners? I'd always avoid sitting at a stop line with the clutch disengaged - mechanical sympathy for my clutch. Then do the shuffle in anticipation of riding away.

zubair

two wheels good wrote: »

Is that the official message to learners? I'd always avoid sitting at a stop line with the clutch disengaged - mechanical sympathy for my clutch. Then do the shuffle in anticipation of riding away.

For the test, you can do what you like the rest of the time. But I'm not sure what your describing to be honest.

zubair

clelia! wrote: »

Congratulations on passing! It must be some relief.

I'm doing my test for the first time on weds in tallaght. Any tips?

When did you do shoulder checks in the test? I have only been checking my blindspot changing lanes and moving off from side of road.

Thanks in advance!

See above :-)

steamsey

clelia! wrote: »

Congratulations on passing! It must be some relief.

I'm doing my test for the first time on weds in tallaght. Any tips?

When did you do shoulder checks in the test? I have only been checking my blindspot changing lanes and moving off from side of road.

Thanks in advance!

Yeah it's great to have it done. Will look into some advanced riding courses soon.

My pre test instructor told me no need to do turning shoulder checks if in a 30km/h estate. This confused the sh*t out of me so I basically ignored him and did them everywhere during the test. He did say to do them as normal on more major roads though. I'm just mentioning this in case you hear it too as I was told it's a trend now to do fewer shoulder checks on less major roads.

You need to do shoulder checks before you turn, change lanes, change road position, do u-turn, enter / exit dual carriageway, enter and exit roundabout. That's what I did and it seemed to work. He marked me down for missing two shoulder checks. The question is when could something have crept into your blind spot and are you about to move there.

You need to check blindspot before moving out for overtake move - and move out far - I should have moved out to other side of the road (if safe) for the overtake.

I got a point for missing an observation on the slow ride - I thought I checked mirrors before starting and stopping but maybe I missed one or maybe there is another observation I never even considered.

They do seem to be big on making progress - so drive right up to the speed limit. He said I could have gone faster when entering the N7 - I thought I was making good progress so keep that in mind. He said to me afterwards that people expect motorbikes to move - so move. Watch the speed limit signs in Tallaght as they change a lot. If not signposted, I went with 50km/h.

I checked mirrors I'd say every 10 seconds. Check them waiting at lights. Check them after a turn. Checked them before speed bumps (pre test advice). Make sure head is moving so he can see what you're doing.

Also - they'll tell you this but make sure you ride for yourself - don't get distracted by looking for instructor's car. Do your own thing. I lost him at one point after a turn, and luckily I had been forewarned not to freak out if I lose him - just keep driving and he'll tell you what to do.

Best of luck

two wheels good

zubair wrote: »

For the test, you can do what you like the rest of the time. But I'm not sure what your describing to be honest.

I meant I wouldn't sit at a stop line with the bike in first gear, clutch lever in. I prefer to wait in neutral so as not to cause wear on clutch mechanism - and for safety too IMO.
I was wondering if it's official guidance to learners is to keep the bike in gear.
Any learners care to comment?

zubair

Sure, depending on the light sequence I'll kick into neutral too but for the test you should be in gear and obviously clutch in, with rear brake engaged. That was for my test anyway but it could have changed.

newmember2

I see most of the cops putting the left foot down as well - covering the rear brake when stopped - feels totally alien to me - like said...I like to rest in neutral and then bang it into 1st and pull away.
I wonder how many of us would pass the test now if tested?
I wouldn't be looking over my shoulder entering or exiting a roundabout - unless I'm changing lanes or doing something unusual - shure where would the traffic I didn't know about be coming from?

sirmixalot

I had/have a matt black helmet, my instructor told me that I was not turning my head enough and was not really visible when he was following me.
Think someone on here had some great advice to remedy that.

Put a yellow sticky or post it note on each side of the helmet, tape it down, then it was apparent and very visible to see head movements left and right.
Maybe you don't have a black helmet but if you do this might be worth a go.

listermint

newmember? wrote: »

I see most of the cops putting the left foot down as well - covering the rear brake when stopped - feels totally alien to me - like said...I like to rest in neutral and then bang it into 1st and pull away.
I wonder how many of us would pass the test now if tested?
I wouldn't be looking over my shoulder entering or exiting a roundabout - unless I'm changing lanes or doing something unusual - shure where would the traffic I didn't know about be coming from?

Alien ? Your holding the brake and then you off when go. Get away faster. It's the opposite to alien

As for roundabout unless you've a sixth sense a car can under cut you no issues or overtake you no issues on a roundabout anytime. I've had this occur on multiple occasions some drivers can attempt bully manoeuvres.

There's logic to everything in the test it's all actually relativity sensible tbh

listermint

sirmixalot wrote: »

I had/have a matt black helmet, my instructor told me that I was not turning my head enough and was not really visible when he was following me.
Think someone on here had some great advice to remedy that.

Put a yellow sticky or post it note on each side of the helmet, tape it down, then it was apparent and very visible to see head movements left and right.
Maybe you don't have a black helmet but if you do this might be worth a go.

Mines Matt black too. No issues with mine passed first time with what could be construed as a right stick in the mud tester.

You have to be sure to make the checks obvious. Slight glances won't cut it

zubair

listermint wrote: »

Alien ? Your holding the brake and then you off when go. Get away faster. It's the opposite to alien

As for roundabout unless you've a sixth sense a car can under cut you no issues or overtake you no issues on a roundabout anytime. I've had this occur on multiple occasions some drivers can attempt bully manoeuvres.

There's logic to everything in the test it's all actually relativity sensible tbh

I agree, even when I go into neutral I switch back to holding the bike with the rear brake. I see people coming to a stop not using the rear and they just don't look like they're in full control.

I can't tell you the amount of times a shoulder check has saved my ass, no major incidents but had I not checked before hand there would have been.

galwaytt

two wheels good wrote: »

Is that the official message to learners? I'd always avoid sitting at a stop line with the clutch disengaged - mechanical sympathy for my clutch. Then do the shuffle in anticipation of riding away.

there is no wear on your clutch with the lever pulled: if there is, your clutch needs looking at/adjusting.

galwaytt

newmember? wrote: »

I see most of the cops putting the left foot down as well - covering the rear brake when stopped - feels totally alien to me - like said...I like to rest in neutral and then bang it into 1st and pull away.
I wonder how many of us would pass the test now if tested?
I wouldn't be looking over my shoulder entering or exiting a roundabout - unless I'm changing lanes or doing something unusual - shure where would the traffic I didn't know about be coming from?

Unlike OP - congrats btw - if you did the above on a test, you'd have failed.

The only reason you find covering the rear brake alien is too long doing it the wrong way.

And roundabout is a junction.........just a roundy one...checks always needed.

The left-foot-down thing has a practical application: unless you're on a pure flat surface, the bike wants to roll forward or back - this is why you're holding it on (the front) brake atmo. But, when you need to go, your right hand has to do more than one thing: release the brake and roll the throttle on, simultaneously. On hills it can be a bit of a juggle (for some). Or those with small hands. Or bikes with poxy non-adjustable levers. Moving the holding of the bike to your right foot (which is doing nothing anyway), means your right hand has only one thing to do: roll the throttle - and it's relaxed in the interim.

Try it in particular on a big hill, to practice, and see how easy that exercise gets : then just do it all the time.

zubair

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I passed my full test recently and in the pre-test I was told I was

a) doing to many shoulder checks
b) doing them incorrectly/at the wrong time

[/LIST]

Aren't a and b the same thing if you did all the right ones too. Which you must have done to pass.

two wheels good

galwaytt wrote: »

there is no wear on your clutch with the lever pulled: if there is, your clutch needs looking at/adjusting.

Let me clarify .. "mechanical sympathy for my clutch mechanism".

listermint

two wheels good wrote: »

Let me clarify .. "mechanical sympathy for my clutch mechanism".

Makes no sense. Holding it in means no additional pressure than releasing it. Both ways the clutch is engaged twice.

Your way only relieves your hand. That's all

galwaytt

two wheels good wrote: »

Let me clarify .. "mechanical sympathy for my clutch mechanism".

possibly, but if you go to neutral every time, then it's like this:
In gear
Pull Clutch
Select Neutral
Declutch
(traffic light goes green)
Clutch
Select Gear
Release clutch

That's way more wear & tear than:

In gear
Pull Clutch
(traffic light goes green)
Release clutch

nigeldaniel

I have the A test up in a few short weeks and as for stopping in gear I would stop in first if I expect it to be a short time say 30 40 seconds, but if it looks like it could be a big delay I would go into N and use the rear brake to hold.
Shoulder check wise before ever turn, lane change, and after going from a minor road into a major road. That seems to be what I have been taught down here in Kerry.

H_Lime

Jesus I'm dizzy after reading all that:)

Here's what I do. I stop where I need to. And then I go when I need to.

BKtje

I even cut the engine sometimes... though wouldn't recommend for the test

H_Lime

BKtje wrote: »

I even cut the engine sometimes... though wouldn't recommend for the test

Generalised anxiety would not allow me do that:pac:

zubair

H_Lime wrote: »

Jesus I'm dizzy after reading all that:)

Here's what I do. I stop where I need to. And then I go when I need to.

...and paddle where you should u turn?! :-}

H_Lime

zubair wrote: »

...and paddle where you should u turn?! :-}

Christ no, sure I get off n push;)
I guess I just don't value the anal minutiae of test etiquette requirements about stopping at lights. My concerns are best forward view, threat assessment, vanishing points, target fixation, feedback and not bumping my head riding into the garage:o

two wheels good

galwaytt wrote: »

possibly, but if you go to neutral every time, then it's like this:
In gear
Pull Clutch
Select Neutral
Declutch
(traffic light goes green)
Clutch
Select Gear
Release clutch

That's way more wear & tear than:
In gear
Pull Clutch
(traffic light goes green)
Release clutch

Forgive me for not trying to visualise that in detail.
Brief loading/unloading cycles - what's it's designed for. And how many of these cycles are equivalent to 20 or 30 seconds of prolonged loading?
Maybe prolonged loading causes proportionately more wear - small contact areas, small slave cyl bearing, driven/drive plate(s) rotating at different speeds.

Doesn't every learner-driver still learn that ridin' the clutch is bad for the release bearing? Same principle.

two wheels good

I'm curious to read any advantages to holding the clutch disengaged?
Is it the ninja escape option from a potential rear-ending? I have heard that from professional instructors. But I prefer to use other strategies - in most cases.

It's uncomfortable, tiring, can sap heat from the fingers.

There is also a safety risk:
- the hand could slip off the clutch,
- if the bike is hit from the rear the consequences can be worse especially if the rider opens the throttle inadvertently.

My message to learners is: Try not to adopt this habit. There's nothing to gain from it - in most cases. Always an exception.

newmember2

listermint wrote: »

Alien ? Your holding the brake and then you off when go. Get away faster. It's the opposite to alien

As for roundabout unless you've a sixth sense a car can under cut you no issues or overtake you no issues on a roundabout anytime. I've had this occur on multiple occasions some drivers can attempt bully manoeuvres.

There's logic to everything in the test it's all actually relativity sensible tbh

Honestly, I get away quick enough - as said - drop it into gear and away. When I'm stopped I want to have a rest, I don't want to be in gear with the clutch lever held in, I want to relax - maybe even scratch my balls if I feel like it :pac:

galwaytt wrote: »

And roundabout is a junction.........just a roundy one...checks always needed.

Yes, checks are always needed, and especially at junctions, but shoulder checks are not needed on a regular single lane roundabout. Shoulder checks are needed to check blind spots, there are no blind spots going through a single lane roundabout - it is impossible for you to be driving into a space that's not already known.
If a car is trying to undercut you or overtake you on a single lane roundabout then I'd imagine you'd want to take a look at your own road positioning.

galwaytt

two wheels good wrote: »

I'm curious to read any advantages to holding the clutch disengaged?
Is it the ninja escape option from a potential rear-ending? I have heard that from professional instructors. But I prefer to use other strategies - in most cases.

It's uncomfortable, tiring, can sap heat from the fingers.

There is also a safety risk:
- the hand could slip off the clutch,
- if the bike is hit from the rear the consequences can be worse especially if the rider opens the throttle inadvertently.

My message to learners is: Try not to adopt this habit. There's nothing to gain from it - in most cases. Always an exception.

well if you don't do it, you fail your test, ergo - no licence.

Ability and readiness to escape trumps all, so keep it in gear.

two wheels good

galwaytt wrote: »

well if you don't do it, you fail your test, ergo - no licence.

That's what I was trying to determine. Is it official advice to learners? Misguided if so IMO.

galwaytt wrote: »

Ability and readiness to escape trumps all, so keep it in gear.

Nah, there are other strategies I consider more reliable. In any case, cover the clutch and gear lever; selecting first only takes an instant.
And I'm quite pleased with the record longevity of my clutch.

galwaytt

two wheels good wrote: »

That's what I was trying to determine. Is it official advice to learners? Misguided if so IMO.

It's more than advice, it's a requirement to achieve a licence.

And it's not confined to learners: it is standard practice for AGS/Police generally, as well advanced qualification e.g. RoSPA/IAM.

It's not some aberrant idea that come up lately: it's been a part of instructed Roadcraft since 1965.

two wheels good

galwaytt wrote: »

And it's not confined to learners: it is standard practice for AGS/Police generally, as well advanced qualification e.g. RoSPA/IAM.

It's not some aberrant idea that come up lately: it's been a part of instructed Roadcraft since 1965.

It's not a recommendation I recall from Roadcraft. Keeping the bike in gear when stopped doesn't even sound like a typical detail to be found in the book.
Over the course of many year's RoSPA membership no instructor or examiner has recommended I do it or criticised me for not doing it.

listermint

two wheels good wrote: »

That's what I was trying to determine. Is it official advice to learners? Misguided if so IMO.



Nah, there are other strategies I consider more reliable. In any case, cover the clutch and gear lever; selecting first only takes an instant.
And I'm quite pleased with the record longevity of my clutch.

Misguided.


Ok grand lads. Well just cancel everyone's license guy on internet knows better having previously claimed holding the clutch in on your bike lessons the lifespan of it....

Roadcraft

Lifesaver check (Chin to shoulder) before changing position or direction.

Turning left:
Lifesaver before changing position to the left & a second one not required before turning if your position is correct & there is no invitation space on your inside.
If there is space eg. cycle lane lifesaver before you turn.

Turning right:
Lifesaver before changing position to the right in your own lane & one before you change direction.

Shoulder check (Turning your head past your shoulder).
Only from the stopped position before you move off from the side of the road.
Head upright & looking where you are going before you move.

Hope this helps

two wheels good

listermint wrote: »

Misguided.


Ok grand lads. Well just cancel everyone's license guy on internet knows better having previously claimed holding the clutch in on your bike lessons the lifespan of it....

Just my opinion - and I explained why. You resort to a sneer that contributes nothing.

Amusing coincidence - reading another moto web forum:
- reputable bmw indy mechanic advising riders not to keep the clutch disengaged when stopped. Bad for slave cyl.
- another poster saying he's keen to get out of this bad habit.

Keep an open mind.
BTW it's lessens and licence. (Petty, I know.)

Muahahaha

two wheels good wrote: »

I'm curious to read any advantages to holding the clutch disengaged?
Is it the ninja escape option from a potential rear-ending? I have heard that from professional instructors. But I prefer to use other strategies - in most cases.

It's uncomfortable, tiring, can sap heat from the fingers.

There is also a safety risk:
- the hand could slip off the clutch,
- if the bike is hit from the rear the consequences can be worse especially if the rider opens the throttle inadvertently.

My message to learners is: Try not to adopt this habit. There's nothing to gain from it - in most cases. Always an exception.

Must admit when Im first up to the lights after I know the car behind is stopped it is into neutral and I dont have either brake engaged and often have neither hand on the bars. Id fail the test if I did that in the morning.

Its obviously a bad habit from the official advice but Im still puzzled to this day why they say to have a brake engaged. I think its something to do with the car behind you getting rear ended and them him rear ending into you. Maybe without your brake engaged the shunt could throw you over the handlebars but then with it engaged you're only going to be fighting the forces of a 2 ton car hitting into the back of you. Maybe you fall over sideways and the car starts rolling over you. Neither situation sounds great and part of me thinks it would be better to take the shunt and go forward away from the car than risk have a car roll over you. Im not convinced that engaging the brake is somehow safer than not engaging it but would be interested in hearing other opinions.

jmreire

IrishGrimReaper wrote: »

Didn't know they asked that question. Should have answered 100% stopping power from the front sir as rear brakes don't work.

Congratulations on passing the test

First off, its been many years since I rode a bike ( Honda 50 ) so I'm no expert, but I would have thought that the rear brakes would be the "important" one's to break first, and then the front brake.??? Just asking as I may get back in the saddle again.....and during the test, you are in contact with the tester via a headset? Is this unit part of a special helmet supplied by the tester? or an ear piece worn inside your own helmet?
Thanks.

galwaytt

jmreire wrote: »

First off, its been many years since I rode a bike ( Honda 50 ) so I'm no expert, but I would have thought that the rear brakes would be the "important" one's to break first, and then the front brake.??? Just asking as I may get back in the saddle again.....and during the test, you are in contact with the tester via a headset? Is this unit part of a special helmet supplied by the tester? or an ear piece worn inside your own helmet?
Thanks.

No, in normal riding it's actually the other way around: your front brake should be doing about 70% of the work.

It's not a bicycle, you're not going to go over the handlebars - least of all on a Honda 50 !!


If you imagine at a constant speed of (say) 30mph, you 'slow' (by braking) - there is a weight transfer of the machine to the front of it (in this case, the front wheel). This actually means your front tyre gets more grip, and so you can actually brake the front harder.

The reverse is true on the rear: as you slow, the weight comes off the rear (wheel), and so the amount you can brake it reduces (or risk locking it up).

At walking pace or very slow though, it's 50/50.

galwaytt

Muahahaha wrote: »

...but Im still puzzled to this day why they say to have a brake engaged. I think its something to do with the car behind you getting rear ended and them him rear ending into you....

kinda.

Imagine you're sitting there, rear brake engaged, and you get hit from behind: the bike will be driven forward in a straight line by 'skidding the rear' and the steering will be normal/maintained as all the forces are in a linear fashion.

Sit there with the front brake on though, no rear brake and you get hit, and what will happen is the rear wants to move, the front doesn't, and the first thing that will happen is the bike will 'jacknife' and rotate about the front wheel - aka you're getting mown down at this stage, as you're bike is a perpendicular obstacle to the yoke that hit you..........and you're probably looking at it's front bumper or sump.

IrishGrimReaper

I always thought the rear brake 'method' served two purposes, engaging the rear brake light so cars approaching you from behind will more likely be alert that you're actually stopped since the light is brighter.

And so the bike is not capable of rolling back/forward as you'll have the clutch depressed.


@jmreire it's an earpiece worn inside your own helmet.

steamsey

My tuppence worth as a novice - I always hold a brake at lights - could be the front or back, depending. Two reasons in my head for doing this:

1) I want the vehicle behind me to see the brake light and know that I am not moving or about to move. Then, when I release it, they can see the light going off and know I am about to move. For me, it's about communicating to others what I'm doing and what I'm about to do

2) If I get badly rear ended when stopped, it's going to be bad anyway. BUT - if I get rear ended and pushed into a junction with traffic coming perpendicular to me, it could be fatal. Hence the brakes when stopped to try to reduce risk of getting pushed into a junction or something similar.

On the clutch discussion - when I did the IBT a few months back, we were all riding the clutch like 90, in first gear driving around a car park for hours. I said it to the instructor, and asked should we be off the clutch a bit more to avoid damaging it. He said in 15 years of training riders with dozens of different bikes, he never had an issue with clutches. They can take a lot. I'm happy to sit with clutch disengaged and bike in first gear if I want to.

As others said - IBT will tell you to sit at lights with clutch disengaged and in first. This is how to pass the test too - left foot down, clutch in, bike in first - ready to go.

jmreire

galwaytt wrote: »

No, in normal riding it's actually the other way around: your front brake should be doing about 70% of the work.

It's not a bicycle, you're not going to go over the handlebars - least of all on a Honda 50 !!


If you imagine at a constant speed of (say) 30mph, you 'slow' (by braking) - there is a weight transfer of the machine to the front of it (in this case, the front wheel). This actually means your front tyre gets more grip, and so you can actually brake the front harder.

The reverse is true on the rear: as you slow, the weight comes off the rear (wheel), and so the amount you can brake it reduces (or risk locking it up).

At walking pace or very slow though, it's 50/50.

Thats a good explanation, and prior to hearing it, if I was to bet, I'd be betting on the rear wheel getting more pressure than the front !!! I'd be used to driving much heavier vehs, where the max braking effort would be going to the rear axles. Thanks

ohnonotgmail

steamsey wrote: »

My tuppence worth as a novice - I always hold a brake at lights - could be the front or back, depending. Two reasons in my head for doing this:

1) I want the vehicle behind me to see the brake light and know that I am not moving or about to move. Then, when I release it, they can see the light going off and know I am about to move. For me, it's about communicating to others what I'm doing and what I'm about to do

2) If I get badly rear ended when stopped, it's going to be bad anyway. BUT - if I get rear ended and pushed into a junction with traffic coming perpendicular to me, it could be fatal. Hence the brakes when stopped to try to reduce risk of getting pushed into a junction or something similar.

On the clutch discussion - when I did the IBT a few months back, we were all riding the clutch like 90, in first gear driving around a car park for hours. I said it to the instructor, and asked should we be off the clutch a bit more to avoid damaging it. He said in 15 years of training riders with dozens of different bikes, he never had an issue with clutches. They can take a lot. I'm happy to sit with clutch disengaged and bike in first gear if I want to.

As others said - IBT will tell you to sit at lights with clutch disengaged and in first. This is how to pass the test too - left foot down, clutch in, bike in first - ready to go.

isn't that because motorbikes generally have wet clutches as opposed to dry clutches?