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Transportation of Ammo.

  • 29-02-2020 3:26pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    It seems that joe bloggs now needs to store ammo in locked box when transporting it in the car and that it's to be kept separate from the firearm.

    Does a locked glove box meet the standard.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 376 ✭✭ eoin.d


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    It seems that joe bloggs now needs to store ammo in locked box when transporting it in the car and that it's to be kept separate from the firearm.

    Does a locked glove box meet the standard.
    From what i understand a locked glove box is perfectly fine.
    I dont understand does this mean you need to have gun in the boot and not in backseat


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    What a pointless rule or law or whatever it is. A glovebox in most cars is about as difficult to get into as a crisp packet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭ clivej


    So ammo in a locked box on the front or back seat and the firearm in the boot is OK??


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    clivej wrote: »
    So ammo in a locked box on the front or back seat and the firearm in the boot is OK??

    Yep.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Yep.

    That's what most of us are doing, some lads have toolboxes with combination locks, some have ammo cans, I know a man who made a box out of timber. Guns and gear in boot covered with jacket ammo in seat well back seat. It's a fuk3d up ball of sh1t.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    Better off walking the distance with the gun in your shoulder. Ffs. Such bull


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    eoin.d wrote: »
    From what i understand a locked glove box is perfectly fine.
    I dont understand does this mean you need to have gun in the boot and not in backseat

    Nope you can have the gun in the backseat, solong as it is in a locked gunslip,or in the boot.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    That's what most of us are doing, some lads have toolboxes with combination locks, some have ammo cans, I know a man who made a box out of timber. Guns and gear in boot covered with jacket ammo in seat well back seat. It's a fuk3d up ball of sh1t.

    Nice but overkill. ..You could use your range bag with your ammo in it and put a cheap 50 cent xmas crackers lock on it and be coverd.All this is doing is trying to prevent casual theft of guns and ammo. If theivs can bypass and steal your high end alarmed and immobilised car in 60 secs or less these days....How long will a mild steel box containing your gun and ammo survive?

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    IMO, this is not a new level of 'security' for transporting ammo and firearms in a car.

    This, again only my opinion, is part of anti poaching measures. If lads are stopped with rifles in the passenger compartment and unsecured ammo, say at night time under suspicious circumstances, well now the Guards have something to charge them with. Realisticly why would honest hunters be driving around with guns at the ready wheather loaded or not?

    And again, realistically, what level of security does a 'box' regardless of its locking mechanism, design or constriction, offer? ..... Nil.
    If it can be picked up and carried away then all sense of security is voided...... for feck sake look at cash machines.

    This stupid reg is in fact a simple and practical way of sticking it to the bad guys.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    IMO, this is not a new level of 'security' for transporting ammo and firearms in a car.

    This, again only my opinion, is part of anti poaching measures. If lads are stopped with rifles in the passenger compartment and unsecured ammo, say at night time under suspicious circumstances, well now the Guards have something to charge them with. Realisticly why would honest hunters be driving around with guns at the ready wheather loaded or not?

    And again, realistically, what level of security does a 'box' regardless of its locking mechanism, design or constriction, offer? ..... Nil.
    If it can be picked up and carried away then all sense of security is voided...... for feck sake look at cash machines.

    This stupid reg is in fact a simple and practical way of sticking it to the bad guys.

    Because I've just come out of a field with a drain after shooting two ducks. I've my automatic and a shooting jacket with 15 cartridges in it. According to the new law I have to decant all these shells into a lockable receptacle, Which is bollox so I can now, drive to my next spot get out unlock the receptacle load up my vest and off to trapse a drain. Nobody thinks this **** through...........so you stop the honest hunter to catch a poacher, who because he doesn't care about the law really doesn't give a flying Fluck.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    .....shooting jacket with 15 cartridges in it......

    Stick the vest or jacket in a bag with a small padlock on the zipper.
    a lockable receptacle,

    No definition of 'a lockable receptacle,' under the terms of the instruction.
    so you stop the honest hunter to catch a poacher, who because he doesn't care about the law really doesn't give a flying Fluck.

    You miss the point, anyone who is willing to disregard social norms, common sense and the law of the land never gives a feck, they are that way inclined, regardless of convention or legislations.
    But now there is something in place to deal with those who are willing to break other laws or infringe on other peoples safety!

    The issue here is the penalty imposed on those willing to break the law. If its a slap on the knuckles and be off with you attitude then YES, I agree with you it's a PITA for honest hunters.

    But remember it wasn't a few isolated instances of careless gun ownership in regards to storage etc that brought in the security of firearms regs. It was wholesale incompetence by firearm owners across the nation that prompted the powers to be to act. I still stand by my statement about poaching but I would add that, compliance by us, responsible and law abiding gun owers, is not really a big issue for our day to day hunting activity. Regardless of how futile the process of securing said firearms and ammo, be thankful they didn't go to town on us and start issuing minimum security standards on us via proper security boxs or God forbid 'safes'. Be seen to do It and this may be the end of it, a little inforced law, just waiting to nail a bad guy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Stick the vest or jacket in a bag with a small padlock on the zipper.



    No definition of 'a lockable receptacle,' under the terms of the instruction.



    You miss the point, anyone who is willing to disregard social norms, common sense and the law of the land never gives a feck, they are that way inclined, regardless of convention or legislations.
    But now there is something in place to deal with those who are willing to break other laws or infringe on other peoples safety!

    The issue here is the penalty imposed on those willing to break the law. If its a slap on the knuckles and be off with you attitude then YES, I agree with you it's a PITA for honest hunters.

    But remember it wasn't a few isolated instances of careless gun ownership in regards to storage etc that brought in the security of firearms regs. It was wholesale incompetence by firearm owners across the nation that prompted the powers to be to act. I still stand by my statement about poaching but I would add that, compliance by us, responsible and law abiding gun owers, is not really a big issue for our day to day hunting activity. Regardless of how futile the process of securing said firearms and ammo, be thankful they didn't go to town on us and start issuing minimum security standards on us via proper security boxs or God forbid 'safes'. Be seen to do It and this may be the end of it, a little inforced law, just waiting to nail a bad guy.


    You can all thank our betters in Europe for this!
    As this is std legislation and has been for years nowin most continental countries.However they do make exceptions for you if like said you are going from one piece of your let to another via a public road.Or driving on a public road that runs in your let with a loaded gun.So hopefully some cop on would be used by AGS in cases like this.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Because I've just come out of a field with a drain after shooting two ducks. I've my automatic and a shooting jacket with 15 cartridges in it. According to the new law I have to decant all these shells into a lockable receptacle, Which is bollox so I can now, drive to my next spot get out unlock the receptacle load up my vest and off to trapse a drain. Nobody thinks this **** through...........so you stop the honest hunter to catch a poacher, who because he doesn't care about the law really doesn't give a flying Fluck.

    If your jacket has a deep poachers pocket .Modify with a lockable zipper with a small padlock. Dump shells or belt into it ,lock it with a euro shop or cheap suit case lock....Boom! you are done.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    You can all thank our betters in Europe for this!
    As this is std legislation and has been for years now in most continental countries.However they do make exceptions for you if like said you are going from one piece of your let to another via a public road.Or driving on a public road that runs in your let with a loaded gun.So hopefully some cop on would be used by AGS in cases like this.

    You would hope cop on will come into it but I doubt it. If there was cop on it would have covered an exemption for small amounts of ammo. I like the bag bit, but we already have gun dealers up our way telling lads you need a safe for your car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭ The pigeon man


    If your next permission is close just unload the gun and walk up the road with it.

    It saves the hassle of having to lock ammo and put the gun in a slip.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    You would hope cop on will come into it but I doubt it. If there was cop on it would have covered an exemption for small amounts of ammo

    Distance would be better .IOW say,you have to cross a public road thats bisecting your shoot,or going no further than one kilometer between your shoots.Or that you can load. drive along a public road for the distance of the lamds you shoot over.
    Well no point in us B&Ming amongst ourselves about this lads.Ye do pay annual mmembership dues to folks like NARGC,etc...Let them you you are unhappy with this and want changes made.
    I like the bag bit, but we already have gun dealers up our way telling lads you need a safe for your car.
    Full of Sht that..But cant blame them either I suppose to tryand make a few quid off it either.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ slipperyox


    Any link for the source of this legislation?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    slipperyox wrote: »
    Any link for the source of this legislation?

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2019/si/420/made/en/print


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    So, i stick my 5 rounds in my magizine and lock it in the glove box. And I'm covered.. as long as the guns in the boot or in a bag.


  • Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ slipperyox


    "Transport of relevant firearm or ammunition for relevant firearm

    4C. Subject to Regulation 4D, a holder or an excepted person shall, when transporting the relevant firearm or ammunition for the relevant firearm in a vehicle, ensure that -

    (a) the relevant firearm is-

    (i) concealed from view, and

    (ii) stored separately from the ammunition, and

    (b) the ammunition is stored in a receptacle that is locked."

    A car could be considered a receptacle that is locked.
    Or it could be stored in the back of a pickup in a locked box:rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    The more you read it the more it's a joke.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    :rolleyes:
    slipperyox wrote: »
    "Transport of relevant firearm or ammunition for relevant firearm.....

    (a) the relevant firearm is-

    (i) concealed from view, and

    (ii) stored separately from the ammunition, and

    (b) the ammunition is stored in a receptacle that is locked."

    A car could be considered a receptacle that is locked.
    Or it could be stored in the back of a pickup in a locked box:rolleyes:

    So if you consider your car the locked receptacle, then in line with the Regs you've two choices:

    A. Secure your firearm incognito to the outside of your vechile, now being deemed the 'locked receptacle'.

    Or

    B. Give it to your mate so he can carry it in his car for you.

    :rolleyes::p:)

    Me thinks its easier to keep the ammo in a locked receptacle (leave the interpretation to you) and feck it in the boot along side your firearm stored in its comfty slip, case or what ever rocks your boat as to a method of routinely carrying/transporting your firearm around during your shoiting/hunting activities.

    The final day of the season has passed and already we are getting bored,.... time for some vermin control to take our minds off some petty little reg that, lets face facts, should not bother us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭ clivej


    slipperyox wrote: »
    "Transport of relevant firearm or ammunition for relevant firearm

    4C. Subject to Regulation 4D, a holder or an excepted person shall, when transporting the relevant firearm or ammunition for the relevant firearm in a vehicle, ensure that -

    (a) the relevant firearm is-

    (i) concealed from view, and

    (ii) stored separately from the ammunition, and

    (b) the ammunition is stored in a receptacle that is locked."

    A car could be considered a receptacle that is locked.
    Or it could be stored in the back of a pickup in a locked box: rolleyes:

    So reading the 'Letter of the Law'

    Can I keep my firearm in the locked boot alongside the ammo it uses or must they be separated?

    Is the car boot not a 'Locked Receptacle'? So by putting the ammo in the boot, not in a box, in compliance?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Vegeta


    clivej wrote: »
    So reading the 'Letter of the Law'

    Can I keep my firearm in the locked boot alongside the ammo it uses or must they be separated?

    Is the car boot not a 'Locked Receptacle'? So by putting the ammo in the boot, not in a box, in compliance?

    All depends Clive, god only knows what the interpretation of "stored separately" means when in front of a judge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    clivej wrote: »
    So reading the 'Letter of the Law'

    Can I keep my firearm in the locked boot alongside the ammo it uses or must they be separated?

    Is the car boot not a 'Locked Receptacle'? So by putting the ammo in the boot, not in a box, in compliance?

    If your ammo is in a locked receptacle in the boot and your firearm is in the boot, they are both stored separately (that's my thinking anyway).

    I would consider them stored together if the ammo was inside the gun or gun slip/case but not if the ammo was in a different locked box.

    If a glove box could be considered a locked receptacle, I don't see how a car boot would be treated differently. I'd say you would be in trouble if your gun and ammo were loose in the boot.

    But that's only my thinking on the matter, who knows if the Gardai or a Judge would think differently.


  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ solarwinds


    "But that's only my thinking on the matter, who knows if the Gardai or a Judge would think differently."

    And there is the problem, 10 people will give 10 different views/interpretations and who is right ?.It is not defined accurately enough. In your opinion you have complied with the law, ammo locked in glove box firearm in the boot. But you get the wrong Judge or AGS member and they will be of the opinion you should have steel safes bolted into your car.
    No adequate definitions on what anything is as usual.


  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭ Asus1


    Id just pick up something like this if your heading out hunting.Enough room for a load of shells or bullets and it can be padlocked.

    https://www.halfords.ie/tools/storage/tool-boxes/222908.html
    I got a box from decathlon that holds 8 boxes of shells for €9 ill try find link.Buy either and id say your covering your arse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭ p28559


    i believe there is a wider context in that the general non shooting/hunting public, are not famililar with firearms. they think of what they see on the telly and hear about on crime reports of gun seized from crime gangs. if, in my opinion , the minor requirements to keep the gun in its slip in the boot and the ammo in a bag/box under the seat allows the public to feel that there is a process which keeps them safer it is a good thing.

    vague descriptions are great as it allows for a defense if the reasonably application is deemed unsatisfactory by a garda .....bare in mind these are the same lads who mostly can't tell the difference between a .22 rimfire or centrefire....lets get that expert witness on the stand to hear the wide knowledge of "locked receptacle" and firearms in general


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    [QUOTE=Asus1;112701821]I got a box from decathlon that holds 8 boxes of shells for €9 ill try find link.Buy either and id say your covering your arse.[/QUOTE]

    https://www.decathlon.co.uk/case-for-375-cartridges-id_8227500.html


    https://www.decathlon.co.uk/case-for-200-cartridges-id_8156630.html

    This is what I have for rifle ammo or enough cartridges for rough shoot.

    I have plastic artillery ammo cases that fit slabs of cartridges, but to be honest, I couldn't be bothered thinkering with it fitting locks, I think 375 box will do me for the coming pigeon shooting..... by the time you finish farting around with hard ware it would be cheeper to spend the money on the shop bought one.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭ Asus1


    Heres the decathlon link same as above only link to Irish site.Its a really strong case will last a long time if not abused and can be locked without modification.
    https://www.decathlon.ie/ie_en/storage-case-for-200-cartridges-en-s10511.html


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