General British politics discussion thread

Dave0301

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781624#Comment_117781624

I thought it had been posted through official channels and not the media.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781740#Comment_117781740

Yeah, that's why I made the initial post, I thought it had come that route, and was then picked up by the media. And I found it a curious image for official channels to put out there.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781334#Comment_117781334

It's not. Same skin tone and brighter than normal hair as he appeared on televised news pieces this week. It was released yesterday via government accounts.

So no freshly sun kissed

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117780923#Comment_117780923

According to this link,the UK is doing its utmost to help get people out of Afghanistan.There is also footage of British troops at Kabul airport checkpoints trying to maintain order which shows the enormity of the situation they're operating in.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pentagon-british-paratroopers-afghanistan-kabul-airport

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783501#Comment_117783501

The British ambassador is the only one who has remained in Afghanistan to personally sign off paperwork. That pretty much puts every other country to shame.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Linkdump and below standard one-liner removed.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784272#Comment_117784272

It might put every other ambassador to shame, if indeed he were the only one to remain. In fact he left two days ago, as did the French ambassador, who had also remained as long as thought safe to process evacuation paperwork. And in fact there are many ambassadors still in Kabul, including from countries like Iran that host large numbers of Afghan refugees. The Iranian embassy is, reportedly, still open and still processing applications. By and large, it's only the ambassadors of countries that participated in the NATO operation in Afghanistan that have considered it prudent to shut up shop and leave.

Joe_ Public

Beth Rigby reporting on sky that there could be a vote on the government's controversial plan to fund social care in the commons tomorrow. Interesting to see how that would go if it comes to pass. Tories usually fall into line after having a good bellyache on these occasions, but even with the majority, it could be close enough. Been obvious for some years that the rising costs in care for older people was entirely incompatible with their persistent pledges to keep taxes low for their voter base. Maybe it's finally catching up with them, or they manage to squirm their way out of it again with more classic fudge and dissembling. We'll see. Would be nice to hear some opposition clarity on it.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857742#Comment_117857742

The problem is that they're happy to waste public money on nonsense like Yachts and tax handouts to their friends. The public aren't stupid and something like this is going to hit every working person in the pocket. The sort of wealthy, southern Tory who was already bristling at the prospect of Johnson's levelling fund might even break ranks over this.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857805#Comment_117857805

National insurance is taxed at 2% on earnings over £50,000 so it is not affecting high earners as much as middle or low earners. So much for the fraud that was levelling up. Seems like they had 3 choices here: income tax rise aimed more at higher earners (as Labour proposed in 2019), a capital gains or other wealth taxes as many are proposing now, or the path they have chosen. I guess they think it is the least worst option for them.

Listening to a labour politician completely dodge the question as to how they'd tackle it on bbc right now is painful.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857928#Comment_117857928

There's political room for Starmer to make gains here but so far he's not been much of anything as leader.

Income tax, unlike National Insurance does not apply to unearned income so we can clearly see what Johnson's priorities are here. There's so much they could look at from a land tax, a carbon tax, tax on second homes, etc which would help not just with state income but with building a base for the elections of the future as well but, as with Brexit, the can gets kicked down the road again.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857945#Comment_117857945

In the commons Johnson says "nobody earning under £9,000 will pay a penny" like it's some amazing concession. He also points out that NIC means employers will be paying, but from my admittedly sketchy knowledge of it, a lot of employers are able to pass that charge off on employees. I don't think unless they face up as a society to the grotesque inequality that is growing annually, and even more sharply through the pandemic, they'll ever get close to figuring this and other issues out. However politically it plays out.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858038#Comment_117858038

Yep. The crux of the problem is that the current cabinet are there by virtue of their loyalty to Johnson and their capacity to toe the line. This means that there's not a lot of talent or ideas and that dissention will not be tolerated.

The problem for the Tory party, among many of course is the failure to make arguments for conservatism for the next generation of voter. Younger people in this country see the burden of taxation dumped unfairly on them while they're saddled with university fees their parents didn't have to pay and they're only seeing things get worse. I read in The Economist a long time ago that Nixon in the US knew what way the wind was blowing regarding welfare and decided to grasp the nettle and do it himself rather than risk the Democrats doing it their way. There's just none of that pragmatism here. We all know that the various issues afflicting Britain and the world demand urgent action but Johnson is only interested if there are photo opportunities.

Sadly, it will say a lot for this country if this National Insurance hike is going to make more difference than anything else he's done.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858066#Comment_117858066

Harold MacMillan was somewhat similar, tory to his marrow but probably the last tory pm, apart from Major, who was pragmatic and actually driven by genuine compassion for ordinary voters beyond their base. I think politicians in general had some backbone in those days, if they were just as sneaky and corrupt. I'm not sure those dread focus groups were much of a thing yet.

Saw another stat in a newspaper article yesterday suggesting that the average renter in London is paying 75% of their net salary on rent. That's mad, absolutely bonkers. You can't get a mortgage or make any savings in that position, I don't know where that's leading, but it's not anywhere good.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858161#Comment_117858161

Ya I've seen the reports on 75% which is why lots of people in London live in this grim life of pound shops and Wetherspoons and end the week with a £0 bank balance or worse.

Free public services are very important when you are living on those tight margins which is why so much of London is red and not because as some would have you believe that it's because we were all "woke trans libs" or whatever nonsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857928#Comment_117857928

Someone earning £20k per year will pay an extra £130, someone earning £100k per year will pay an extra £1130. Sounds like a fairly even distribution to me.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858264#Comment_117858264

But why not income tax instead? The optics of someone earning 10k having to pay more tax is terrible imo, even if it's just a few quid. Means a lot to someone living in work poverty. The income tax threshold is at least higher. The 100k guy can take it. Of course, those over pension age don't pay NIC, maybe that has something to do with it.

Also, only £5bn of what they raise initially will actually be going towards social care, will that sort anything? When you see the trends regarding the ageing of the population over the coming decades, I'm not sure these kind of sticking plaster methods will cut it.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858235#Comment_117858235

One way they could start to address this nightmare is stop this insane drive to get people back to the office. I know the proposal for a 4 day working week will never gain traction in such a conservative country, but people could be easily work on a mixed home/office basis, 2 days a week in the office maybe. Or along those lines anyway. It might make commuting more palatable, give people incentive to lay down roots away from the city. But Sunak seems more obsessed with getting London back to full throttle so I don't foresee any plans or vision for going down that road.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858161#Comment_117858161

I live in London and the "affordable" flats near me start at £280,000 or can be rented for £2,000 monthly. Take from that what you will. I love the place but it's so ill suited to committing to that anyone without wealthy family members to help with deposits soon feels the urge to leave. Sad because it's an incredible city.

What you're describing regarding MacMillan and Major is One Nation Conservatism which traces its roots back to the nineteenth century Tory PM and author, Benjamin Disraeli. The idea was that there existed one nation and that those at the top have a moral obligation to help those at the bottom. Now, though it's more like the NHS where by convention the leading Tory of the day identifies as a One Nation Tory before proceeding with the scheduled plan of tax cuts, austerity and economic calamity.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858550#Comment_117858550

That helps some people but not the massive hospitality industry and its poorly paid workers or the NHS staff who are paid in claps

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858641#Comment_117858641

I spent several years in London when it was still affordable. Sad the way it's going, but probably same as New York and other major cities. Dublin not too far behind in some areas.

MacMillan's famous remark on Thatcher privatisation.

"The sale of assets is common with individuals and the state when they run into financial difficulties. First the Georgian silver goes and then all the nice furniture that used to be in the saloon. Then the Canalettos go.'

MacMillan was so much more than a one nation tory or "compassionate" conservative, as I think they like to be referred to as nowadays, just to emphasise that isn't an oxymoron.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858679#Comment_117858679

I never claimed to be offering a panacea to cure all ills. To address poverty inequality, climate change etc would take radical action and we're not going to get that so not certain it's even worth discussion tbh.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858511#Comment_117858511

I've no doubt that they are upping NICs (esp. employer NIC) rather than income tax purely because a lot of people don't understand it.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858851#Comment_117858851

That may be, but the point about employers NIC is that they will simply pass this off onto employees in the form of lower wage increases and they also have the option in most cases of increasing prices to offset it. The workers are in danger of getting done twice over. That's a huge problem with it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858511#Comment_117858511

It's social care, hence national insurance I presume.

When Labour tried to address this under Blair, the Tories yelled "Death Tax" at them, when May proposed something quite radical, Labour called it a dementia tax.

it is a political hot potato, like the old rates system was. Everyone knows it is broken, but anyone who tries to address it will always get crucified for it. I thought May's proposals were good and offered a good way of tapping into inheritance, without actually taxing inheritance, but her weak position meant it was just lambasted.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858905#Comment_117858905

If there was an increase in PAYE, then surely those same bosses would offset their increase in taxes by paying their staff lower and/or increasing prices, would they not?

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858919#Comment_117858919

Honestly, can't remember why May chose that actual moment to introduce that policy. Mind boggling political illiteracy. I suppose, you could give her some credit for not fudging it, as most in her position would do, but the policy itself was a bust. If there were even a shred of merit in it, she'd hardly have been abandoning it a few days later. A gift, sweet wrapped, to the opposition.

I'm not partisan when it comes to this issue, however. I wouldn't have great faith in any party to sort this. Are we even pretending that Johnson's proposal even significantly addresses it? I think it barely scratches the surface tbh. Until they - and by they I mean all parties - address the gross inequality and go after the lavish wealth, I think these issues will only get worse.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858952#Comment_117858952

Sorry, maybe I'm thick, but the bosses pay paye on behalf of their employees right? Not for themselve.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117859289#Comment_117859289

everyone pays PAYE, even bosses.

If the owner of a company suddenly sees their wages hit because they are suddenly paying more tax, what's to stop them paying themselves more and their employees less?

There is no golden bullet here, whichever way you go, it will be wrong from what I can see. The good thing with increasing NIC and tax on dividends is that there is no way around it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117859283#Comment_117859283

I don't think there was ever much political savvy when I came to acting Prime minister May in fairness