General British politics discussion thread

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499621#Comment_118499621

It's both. Amery was quoting Cromwell when upbraiding Chamberlain.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499621#Comment_118499621

It's a long story but Amery was echoing something Cromwell is believed to have said when ejecting the remaining members of the 'Long Parliament'. Davis actually left out what to my ears is the harshest bit  "Depart, I say, and let us have done with you."

10000maniacs

I don't think anybody picked up on it in PMQ's, but Johnson called Christian Wakeford "The right member for Bury South". 😀

devnull

Things look better today for Boris than they did last night.

Tories are now withdrawing their letters of no confidence apparently after Johnson announced a bonfire of almost all COVID restrictions.

No wonder he looks less negative than yesterday.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500424#Comment_118500424

Johnson surviving might actually be good news for those who would want the Tories out at the next election. He's still as incompetent and useless as ever and totally unfit to run a country - it will only do more damage to the party long term.

Arghus

I think there's a danger of the opposition overdoing it on the party issue.

That isn't to say he shouldn't resign, but clearly he won't.

I'll be surprised if the report gives him no wriggle room, he's clearly banking on it not being an instantaneous death knell.

So he'll probably carry on and blather his way out of it and I wonder is it wise to keep attacking him - not that he doesn't deserve it - but it could have the undesired effect of making the opposition look repetitive and boring in the eyes of electorate.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499216#Comment_118499216

Wow Tory to Labour is a rare one for a sitting MP. I wonder if his red wall constituents are all telling him they are going back to Labour not that Brexit "got done"

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500944#Comment_118500944

Main problem is that the Tory Party seem terrified of replacing him. The issue of giving him the boot is not stalling because of opposition MPs or the media coverage, but because of Tory MPs themselves - they feel kicking him out will damage them and a new leader is less likely to be a vote winner (otherwise he'd be long gone).

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500944#Comment_118500944

Jeysus. "Starmer is an idiot cause he does nothing" "Starmer is an idiot because he goes for the kill"

Arghus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500982#Comment_118500982

I guess it all hinges on the outcome of this investigation, if he's left with nowhere to go or not. But he'll probably find some way to fudge and blather his way out of it.

Look at the litany of increasingly lame excuses: There were no parties, I'd be appalled to know of any parties, I wasn't at one, I didn't know it was a party, I didn't know it was against the rules - it's ridiculous, but who is to say there won't be another layer of new and previously unimagined clearly face saving excuses next week to downplay some other new revaluation or the eventual outcome of the investigation.

Let's say if the investigation isn't a resigning matter and there's no leadership heave, then, rightly or wrongly, there will be a limited shelf life on how long the opposition can pursue him on this particular issue. To be clear, I think there's no question that he should go and he's totally unfit for office, but I think he'll ride this one out.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500972#Comment_118500972

Seems to have only happened three times before, all since 1999. Only one got re-elected and they had to move constituency to do so. Their Tory replacement there was Cameron!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501079#Comment_118501079

Of course there is a limited shelf life and Labour are not going to go on about it forever but while it's the hot topic it would be stupid not to work him on it

A Dub in Glasgo

I would be very disappointed if I was in the Labour party that they accepted Wakeford. I know it looks great and puts the pressure on the Tories but the man is a Tory as evidenced by his voting record. The only reason he jumped ship is to protect that very small majority

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501679#Comment_118501679

There is no guarantee he will be allowed run for Labour next time

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501679#Comment_118501679

20% of the voters there are Jewish. So some of the votes might not follow him to labour.

Also it's one less 1922 letter.

ancapailldorcha

Serious posts only please. Dumping memes, quotes and such is not what this forum is for. Thanks.

devnull

Talk on Sky that the 1922 committee are looking to change the rules as soon as possible so instead of 15%(54 letters) of Tory MPs trigger a vote of no confidence, it could be changed to a third (120) to trigger the vote.

As part of the above change, they will remove the clause that a vote can only be held once every 12 months. The argument is that apparently it gives the Tory party more flexibility and to make their leaders more accountable.

Itssoeasy

@ancapailldorcha Apologies I didn’t mean to post something that wasn’t serious. I felt the quote about not wanting the truth was relevant due to the allegation that boris Johnson lied to parliament. That was my point but if it’s not to the standard of posting then I again apologise.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502184#Comment_118502184

Also known as the Paterson manoeuvre

devnull

I guess the Tories will be happy with the client journalism in the Mail and Express tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1483931548890054665

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1483934203809042433

Wonder who their child could have got Covid off and if it's effecting new-borns that bad then surely that undermines the idea that it's safe to remove all restrictions next week?

maebee

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10420397/Prime-Ministers-daughter-Romy-Covid-quite-badly-mend-source-says.html

Deflection and sympathy seeking from BoJo.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503631#Comment_118503631

Johnson surviving might be good news in my book. He will only succeed in destroying the Tory Party even further in coming months - he is simply not up to the job of running a country.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501928#Comment_118501928

Jewish voters make up about 10% of the electorate in Bury South, not 20%.

The constituency was held won by Labour at every general election from 1997 until 2019, and it's possible that the defection of Jewish voters from Labour to Tory was one of the factors that led to the Tories taking the seat in 2019. Even without Wakeford's defection, some of those voters might have reverted to Labour once Corbyn was removed and Starmer installed. Wakefield, although not himself Jewish, is co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on British Jews, and in the 2019 election he had the support of the outgoing independent MP, who was Jewish, so he presumably has some profile, or at least credibility, with Jewish voters.

But, Jewish or not, I'm not sure that many voters will "follow Wakeford" to Labour; I don't think he has much of a personal following in the constituency. From 2009 he made his entire political career in Pendle, until being parachuted in to Bury South as the Tory candidate in 2019. He won with a majority of just 400, partly on the back of the nationwide swing to the Tories, and partly on the back of a split in the Labour vote. I think this is a constituency which would have been odds-on to return to the Labour fold at the next general election anyway; the question is whether, if Wakefield is nominated as the Labour candidate, that will piss off Labour supporters who regard him as a Tory blow-in who has switched for opportunistic reasons, and whether this will happen on a sufficiently grand scale to prevent Labour from recovering the seat.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503762#Comment_118503762

If he makes it, the next test will be the local elections in 4 months - heavily Labour councils though, but they include all of London which has plush, Tory-but-remain areas that could go Lib Dem for instance.

At the last outing, they did.... OKish in the circumstances, losing "only" 35 councillors but that has been to seen along with UKIP losing 123 too; and Lab + 79 Lib +76. Their losses were all London - outside London they held up taking seats off UKIP

Brussels Sprout

This seems like a big story.

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1484105255210082306

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505041#Comment_118505041

So what was the end result of the Pritil Patel bullying claims ? That seemed like a big story.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505117#Comment_118505117

Timing is everything

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505137#Comment_118505137

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-carrie-baby-daughter-romy-badly-hit-by-covid/

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505117#Comment_118505117

The Patel story could be important again if Johnson does fall.

Aslo it was important as part of the wider story and this is yet another one. More corruption more sleaze more bullying it's all piling up.

10000maniacs

Tory chief whip Gavin Williamson's knighthood is starting to make sense now.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501679#Comment_118501679

Absolutely. His voting record and some of the statements he's made surely go against everything Labour are supposed to stand for. I don't understand how he's been welcomed into the party with open arms, even the union jack facemask he had on as he crossed the aisle just screamed Tory.

I saw the Labour MP Charlotte Nichols being called out by grassroots on Twitter for hypocrisy. She said a couple of weeks ago when there were (probably nonsense) rumours swirling that Corbyn might start a new party that any MP who changed party should be forced to sit a by-election, but two weeks later she now no longer believes that. She did say that in the event a by-election was called that Wakeford would have her full support, which would mean the voters would effectively be given the choice between a blue Tory and a red Tory while Lucy Burke, the Labour candidate who lost to him by just 400 votes last time out, would no longer be given the opportunity to run.

For her part Lucy Burke has put out a statement that Labour should give the local party the choice to select a candidate such as herself rather than automatically running Wakeford next time out, while she did remain diplomatic and welcomed Wakeford to the party saying she believes people can change.

It made good headlines for one PMQs but it does seem to have just riled up Labour's grass roots and left the party to be attacked by both Conservatives and left of center Labour supporters who want to see a by-election with genuine candidates.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505041#Comment_118505041

These guys seem surprisingly authoritarian. It's not just the case that they are incompetent, there appears to be a lot of genuinely nasty and unpleasant people in the inner core (one can only assume they are taking their cue from the Great Leader).

swampgas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506576#Comment_118506576

Possibly people with psychopathic authoritarian tendencies are drawn to the Conservative party, and they also seem to thrive in it? No great surprise that so many of them share the same selfish and brutish instincts of Johnson, the party culture seems designed to select for it.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506622#Comment_118506622

Let's not forget that Johnson has been accused in the past of threatening to have a journalist beaten up (this is totally in the public record, so I'm not saying anything libellous here). They seems a deeply unpleasant bunch...when the regime is eventually toppled, goodness knows what stories will come out about them.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506622#Comment_118506622

“All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.”

― Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune

Your chances of pocketing a few quid from dodgy expenses or brown envelopes will entice some into certain political parties moreso than others. Greens have to be squeaky clean while some in the DUP would shame some Tories.

10000maniacs

Does Boris Johnson work in that hospital now?

He has been in it pretending to be a doctor for the last two days.

When things get difficult, roll up your sleeves, head out to the nearest hospital and pretend to be doing useful things.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507740#Comment_118507740

It gives the distinct impression of a PM who doesn't engage in any actual work and who just does PR appearances.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507740#Comment_118507740

He loves to campaign but hates to govern. Just like Trump.

Itssoeasy

The various news Channel’s sources are saying that Downing Street are worried that the report into the parties that occurred won’t help Boris Johnson like it seemed it would earlier in the week. You’d wonder whether that’s the true feelings of no10 or is it some spin to feign worry ?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511616#Comment_118511616

Apparently an email has surfaced where someone high up warned Johnson's secretary in advance that the No.10 party should not go ahead (as per Cummings' accusation) and Sue Gray is now in possession of it.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507740#Comment_118507740

The man is shameless when it comes to his PR opportunities

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511147#Comment_118511147

This is the new populism and the simple mechanic that powers it. ABC: Always Be Campaigning. If Trump knew when to STFU, and gave the bare minimum of due diligence with CoVid we absolutely would have had a 2nd term. But for the canny operator, always talking in campaign mode never requires one to Front Up; not if you're always pivoting to some new soapbox or soundbite. It's quite ingenious really, if we're honest; with politics and life becoming more and more shallow or trivial, thanks to Social Media et al reducing our attention spans, there's less focus or need to talk detail or policies anymore.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511616#Comment_118511616

When I first heard this my first thought was they were trying to feign concern to try give credibility to the report if it turns out to be a whitewash.

"Oh we were really worried, but it turns out Sue Gray has cleared us, so we can all move on now".

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118512689#Comment_118512689

But the problem is that the chancer in charge is not leading or managing. It mostly leads to dysfunction and chaos within the system and a culture of incompetence. Imagine hiring a CEO to a firm who had no interest in hard work, had little understanding of how the company works, was not even qualified for the role and was mainly interested in photo ops....it couldn't but do serious damage to the company.

Itssoeasy

The daily mirror is reporting that the report from Sue Gray is being pushed back until next week due to “fresh evidence.” Maybe the Downing Street worry wasn’t that misplaced if those reports are true.

Strazdas

Things going from bad to worse for the Tories. A Muslim former Conservative minister claims she was told off the record that she was fired for being 'too Muslim' and reports that the current chief whip has been making very insulting comments about rebel Tory MPs.

O'Neill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519097#Comment_118519097

In comes Frabricant trying to ask for cool heads....

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1485242385768529921

Strazdas

No insults.

Brussels Sprout

After everything that's happened with the Johnson government in the past few weeks I must say it's odd seeing himself, Raab and Truss weigh in on the very serious topic of Ukraine. It's almost as if I've forgotten that, despite the recent pantomime, when everything is said and done, they are still the ones who are making critical decisions for the country. A bit like seeing the town drunk climb into the cockpit of the plane to pilot the flight you're about to board.

Sam Russell

Drunk or not, I cannot see Johnson, Raab, and Truss instilling confidence in anyone when they make critical decisions for the state. I know it is pantomime season, but they are not serious players in international affairs, having trashed the reputation the Britain had before they entered Gov.

If they were the crew for a flight I was boarding, I think I would miss the flight.