General British politics discussion thread

Strazdas

I don't like Cummings one bit but he is doing his country some service today by naming and shaming (his reasons for doing it are largely irrelevant).

Something of a nightmare for the right wing press, who see it as their sole function to keep Johnson and the Tories in power.

pixelburp

Maybe the question to ask is, are there any Tories who might have the knives at the ready here? We know this hearing won't tilt the press or public so what else can be wrought? Wouldn't trust Cummings to tell me his name so I can't help but wonder if there might be _something_ in the works, a Pretender looking to hang Johnson out to dry. Or maybe I'm inserting court drama where there is none

Strazdas

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe the question to ask is, are there any Tories who might have the knives at the ready here? We know this hearing won't tilt the press or public so what else can be wrought? Wouldn't trust Cummings to tell me his name so I can't help but wonder if there might be _something_ in the works, a Pretender looking to hang Johnson out to dry. Or maybe I'm inserting court drama where there is none

Funnily, I think Cummings is being honest here. He is going into incredible detail and admitting he made many personal mistakes.

Goodness knows though how this is playing out within the Conservative Party or among Johnson's potential rivals like Gove.

Joe_ Public

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe the question to ask is, are there any Tories who might have the knives at the ready here? We know this hearing won't tilt the press or public so what else can be wrought? Wouldn't trust Cummings to tell me his name so I can't help but wonder if there might be _something_ in the works, a Pretender looking to hang Johnson out to dry. Or maybe I'm inserting court drama where there is none

Aside from his oral evidence here, he obviously has a lot of written evidence in the form of texts, whats app conversations etc which could raise some more serious questions. Hard to know what tremors it might cause, but thought it was interesting how keen he was to absolve Rishi Sunak of any blame and seperate him from the entire shambles.

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe the question to ask is, are there any Tories who might have the knives at the ready here? We know this hearing won't tilt the press or public so what else can be wrought? Wouldn't trust Cummings to tell me his name so I can't help but wonder if there might be _something_ in the works, a Pretender looking to hang Johnson out to dry. Or maybe I'm inserting court drama where there is none

The party is so badly gutted from all the PM resignations and cabinet reshuffling that there isn't anyone to challenge him. Gove can dream on he has none of the charisma to survive half the mess ups as Johnson and fair or not a lot of people look at him and see a slimy little toad

Strazdas

This is riveting viewing. Cummings says Johnson apparently thought the UK should never have locked down at any point and by autumn 2020 thought the first lockdown had been a big mistake.

Boggerman12

Whatever Cummings says it doesn’t make a bit of difference to English public who think the sun shines out of boris’s arse

Larbre34

Boggerman12 wrote: »

Whatever Cummings says it doesn’t make a bit of difference to English public who think the sun shines out of boris’s arse

The said the same about Churchill until the election of July 1945.

It would be a mistake to think that the aftermath of this pandemic combined with the crystallisation of Brexit won't have the gravity similar to a postwar situation for Britain.

This testimony is great craic all the same. You can question Cummings' motivations and his politics, but there is little doubt that he is a massively intelligent and resilient fella.

awec

Very awkward afternoon for Laura Keunssberg I'd say...

Itssoeasy

awec wrote: »

Very awkward afternoon for Laura Keunssberg I'd say...

Yeah I’d say it might have been. I don’t think the issue is that she has sources in the government because she’s the political correspondent so it’s kind of par for the course, it’s that she took the Downing Street line and didn’t seem to check with others is the issue. I mean the bbc on tv and radio are not allowed to promote brands, so why should it’s political correspondents be allowed to be used as PR people for the government ?

ancapailldorcha

Larbre34 wrote: »

The said the same about Churchill until the election of July 1945.

It would be a mistake to think that the aftermath of this pandemic combined with the crystallisation of Brexit won't have the gravity similar to a postwar situation for Britain.

This testimony is great craic all the same. You can question Cummings' motivations and his politics, but there is little doubt that he is a massively intelligent and resilient fella.

I don't know. With the comments about letting the bodies pile up, the Barnard Castle thing, the constant displays of corruption via handouts to friends of the Tory party it's hard to see anything denting him at the moment. I'm sure there'll be something at some point but it won't be now.

Larbre34

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't know. With the comments about letting the bodies pile up, the Barnard Castle thing, the constant displays of corruption via handouts to friends of the Tory party it's hard to see anything denting him at the moment. I'm sure there'll be something at some point but it won't be now.

It doesn't have to be now, under the fixed term parliament, it only has be before May 2024. The question between now and then is how much the Tories will see him as an increasing liability?

ArmaniJeanss

Larbre34 wrote: »

It doesn't have to be now, under the fixed term parliament, it only has be before May 2024. The question between now and then is how much the Tories will see him as an increasing liability?

Fixed Term Parliament Act will be repealed in the next few months via a simple majority (it was one of the pieces of legislation proposed in the Queens Speech earlier in the month) at which stage it'll be open to Johnson to call an election at his leisure.

Boggerman12

Cummins really laid into Hancock and I’d reckon in time the dealings between him and Astra Zeneca will be interesting to say the least

Strazdas

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't know. With the comments about letting the bodies pile up, the Barnard Castle thing, the constant displays of corruption via handouts to friends of the Tory party it's hard to see anything denting him at the moment. I'm sure there'll be something at some point but it won't be now.

It's all very Trump-like at the moment. Johnson could be pictured with a handgun or snorting cocaine and it would hardly even dent his popularity a jot with English Tory voters.

One wonders where all this is heading though. He must be the most divisive PM of the last 200 years.

dogbert27

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't know. With the comments about letting the bodies pile up, the Barnard Castle thing, the constant displays of corruption via handouts to friends of the Tory party it's hard to see anything denting him at the moment. I'm sure there'll be something at some point but it won't be now.

There's the holiday he took with Carrie during the pandemic paid for by some Tory donors.

And there's wallpaper gate.

I wonder will Tory donors fund his wedding next year.

HalloweenJack

I always sensed that Cummings had something up his sleeve about BJ and was just biding his time to put it out there.

He strikes me very much as a 'watch the world burn' type. I doubt he cares one way or another what people think of him, at least those who aren't his backers, and he's only loyal to himself, a bit of a Trump in that way, though a lot smarter. Therefore, he's capable of causing a lot more damage.

I'm conflicted as I don't like what he represents and what he's done but it is exhilirating to see him lay into the Tories. There'll be some amount of explaining to do over the next few days and it'll be very hard to dismiss him as he was very visibly involved with the Tory top brass.

Rjd2

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I always sensed that Cummings had something up his sleeve about BJ and was just biding his time to put it out there.

He strikes me very much as a 'watch the world burn' type. I doubt he cares one way or another what people think of him, at least those who aren't his backers, and he's only loyal to himself, a bit of a Trump in that way, though a lot smarter. Therefore, he's capable of causing a lot more damage.

I'm conflicted as I don't like what he represents and what he's done but it is exhilirating to see him lay into the Tories. There'll be some amount of explaining to do over the next few days and it'll be very hard to dismiss him as he was very visibly involved with the Tory top brass.

I think he would describe himself a technocrat.

He obviously buried Hancock and Boris but he went out of his way to praise Sunak , Raab and offered no criticism of Gove when probed.

He clearly has the ear of those in the cabinet who want Boris gone.

breezy1985

Rjd2 wrote: »

I think he would describe himself a technocrat.

He obviously buried Hancock and Boris but he went out of his way to praise Sunak , Raab and offered no criticism of Gove when probed.

He clearly has the ear of those in the cabinet who want Boris gone.

Would be very ironic to see all the brexit voters left with Prime Minister Sunak

Beechwoodspark

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah I’d say it might have been. I don’t think the issue is that she has sources in the government because she’s the political correspondent so it’s kind of par for the course, it’s that she took the Downing Street line and didn’t seem to check with others is the issue. I mean the bbc on tv and radio are not allowed to promote brands, so why should it’s political correspondents be allowed to be used as PR people for the government ?

Kunsberg is pathetic

Beechwoodspark

dogbert27 wrote: »

There's the holiday he took with Carrie during the pandemic paid for by some Tory donors.

And there's wallpaper gate.

I wonder will Tory donors fund his wedding next year.

The word is Johnson is severely stretched financially due to his various debts he owes to former wives and family etc.

Chaotic is probably the best word for his private life.

listermint

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I always sensed that Cummings had something up his sleeve about BJ and was just biding his time to put it out there.

He strikes me very much as a 'watch the world burn' type. I doubt he cares one way or another what people think of him, at least those who aren't his backers, and he's only loyal to himself, a bit of a Trump in that way, though a lot smarter. Therefore, he's capable of causing a lot more damage.

I'm conflicted as I don't like what he represents and what he's done but it is exhilirating to see him lay into the Tories. There'll be some amount of explaining to do over the next few days and it'll be very hard to dismiss him as he was very visibly involved with the Tory top brass.

He seems like the classic libertarian type. Thinks he got where he is entirely off his own bat. Thinks everything should be privatised and it will sort itself out and everyman for himself. No issues knocking anyone down. A bit of a sociopath too.

Joe_ Public

Rjd2 wrote: »

I think he would describe himself a technocrat.

He obviously buried Hancock and Boris but he went out of his way to praise Sunak , Raab and offered no criticism of Gove when probed.

He clearly has the ear of those in the cabinet who want Boris gone.

Cummings' testimony was compelling in ways, but i remain suspicious of the motive and absolute veracity of it. Fair enough, Hancock and Johnson surely deserve all the vitriol he directed at them, but why only them and not his old boss or Sunak. Cummings was at pains to stress his disdain for the anti lockdown lobby, yet it was reportedly Sunak who was pushing Johnson not to impose restrictions last summer and had the ear of Heneghan, Gupta and all those other herd immunity cheerleader charlatans. Only the highest praise for Rishi, though! And shining accolades for Raab too, who as i recall it spent his time as interim leader looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights. I still dont buy his Durham expedition story either, but not sure that matters much at this stage anyway.

breezy1985

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Cummings' testimony was compelling in ways, but i remain suspicious of the motive and absolute veracity of it. Fair enough, Hancock and Johnson surely deserve all the vitriol he directed at them, but why only them and not his old boss or Sunak. Cummings was at pains to stress his disdain for the anti lockdown lobby, yet it was reportedly Sunak who was pushing Johnson not to impose restrictions last summer and had the ear of Heneghan, Gupta and all those other herd immunity cheerleader charlatans. Only the highest praise for Rishi, though! And shining accolades for Raab too, who as i recall it spent his time as interim leader looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights. I still dont buy his Durham expedition story either, but not sure that matters much at this stage anyway.

Parasites need a host and after moving from Farage to Boris is now needing to reinvent himself again to find a new face/host to live off

dublin49

political watchers will have enjoyed today but I suspect the UK general public is happy with the vaccine roll out and that things are opening up.Cummings won't bring them down so his 7 hour rant was a long political suicide note and his castle visit story still totally undermines his credibility.

A Dub in Glasgo

breezy1985 wrote: »

Parasites need a host and after moving from Farage to Boris is now needing to reinvent himself again to find a new face/host to live off

I am not a Cummings fan but Cummings did not jump onto the coat-tails of Farage. He led the Vote Leave faction and in fact had a rivalry with Farage

It is probably more accurate to say that he is morphing back to Gove (he worked for Gove for 7 years)

rock22

The BBC list seven important claims made by Cummings. The Guardian reflects on similar points.

Of these, three (The government 'failed', PM 'not fit for office', Hancock 'should have been fired' ) could be considered no more than opinion. Ans ultimately the public will form their own and make their judgement.
Another three (First lockdown delay, second lockdown advice, herd immunity) could be seen as little more than the wisdom of hindsight. And they are mistakes that were made by almost all government , not wanting to take strong action early on. New Zealand, Taiwan and Australia are a few of the exceptions.

His description of the chaos with number 10 ( dealing with HS2 while Us wanted UK to join in another war in Iraq, Johnsons girlfriend wanted a story about her dog to be denied and the cabinet trying to decide on the first lockdown ) should really surprise no one who has been following Johnson for any length of time.

There is no real smoking gun and nothing to really damage Johnson in the long term .

breezy1985

rock22 wrote: »

The BBC list seven important claims made by Cummings. The Guardian reflects on similar points.

Of these, three (The government 'failed', PM 'not fit for office', Hancock 'should have been fired' ) could be considered no more than opinion. Ans ultimately the public will form their own and make their judgement.
Another three (First lockdown delay, second lockdown advice, herd immunity) could be seen as little more than the wisdom of hindsight. And they are mistakes that were made by almost all government , not wanting to take strong action early on. New Zealand, Taiwan and Australia are a few of the exceptions.

His description of the chaos with number 10 ( dealing with HS2 while Us wanted UK to join in another war in Iraq, Johnsons girlfriend wanted a story about her dog to be denied and the cabinet trying to decide on the first lockdown ) should really surprise no one who has been following Johnson for any length of time.

There is no real smoking gun and nothing to really damage Johnson in the long term .

Massive over simplification there. The UKs Covid response was shocking and lead the UK to have some of the highest death rates in Europe and for a time were posting some of the highest cases in the world.

You leave out all the details of why he is considered unfit for office like wanting to inject himself with covid or being will to let the bodies pile up.
I agree it probably wont affect him given that the expenses scandal, the "piles of bodies" stuff and the dodgy way he handled the India variant havnt touched him

ancapailldorcha

breezy1985 wrote: »

Massive over simplification there. The UKs Covid response was shocking and lead the UK to have some of the highest death rates in Europe and for a time were posting some of the highest cases in the world.

You leave out all the details of why he is considered unfit for office like wanting to inject himself with covid or being will to let the bodies pile up.
I agree it probably wont affect him given that the expenses scandal, the "piles of bodies" stuff and the dodgy way he handled the India variant havnt touched him

The details sadly don't matter to most people though. Johnson is currently unassailable. Even the recently announced inquiry will make no difference and that's if he doesn't choose a loyalist to head it up. Covid's like Brexit, once it's over nobody is going to want to dredge it back up.

J Mysterio

rock22 wrote: »

The BBC list seven important claims made by Cummings. The Guardian reflects on similar points.

Of these, three (The government 'failed', PM 'not fit for office', Hancock 'should have been fired' ) could be considered no more than opinion. Ans ultimately the public will form their own and make their judgement.
Another three (First lockdown delay, second lockdown advice, herd immunity) could be seen as little more than the wisdom of hindsight. And they are mistakes that were made by almost all government , not wanting to take strong action early on. New Zealand, Taiwan and Australia are a few of the exceptions.

His description of the chaos with number 10 ( dealing with HS2 while Us wanted UK to join in another war in Iraq, Johnsons girlfriend wanted a story about her dog to be denied and the cabinet trying to decide on the first lockdown ) should really surprise no one who has been following Johnson for any length of time.

There is no real smoking gun and nothing to really damage Johnson in the long term .

Can't say I disagree with the above. People who are still supporting Johnson despite everything that's happened won't really have their mind changed by any of these 'revelations'.

Something of a spurned lover feeling to it too and, anyway, no one really trusts Cummings, he's as slippery as an eel.

The big moment for me was name dropping Kuenssberg and revealing himself as her 'source'. Everyone already knew he was feeding her the government line anyway (which she duly regurgitated), but now we have it from the horses mouth.