General British politics discussion thread

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172755#Comment_122172755

Yup

Al we hear is how "bad" Labour will be and honestly we'll fix everything if you just give us another 5 years because the last 14 years haven't been enough.

FFS sunak sat down yesterday and promised a grieving woman that he would get legislation passed before summer recess knowing full well that it was never going tonhappen.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172755#Comment_122172755

You're in the UK. Your choice is a Tory government under Sunak or whoever comes next in the shambolic parade of ineptitude that is the Tory leadership, or a Labour government under Starmer. That's not a difficult choice to make.

It may be depressing that that is the choice, but this is not a state of affairs for which you can blame Starmer. The British seem to like it that way.

Timberrrrrrrr

"hand picked by the establishment"

I think you may have meant to post this in the conspiracy theory forum.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172643#Comment_122172643

For Labour that's a significant improvement on the last leader, who managed to inspire voters to get out and vote for the Tories simply to keep him out.

blackwhite

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-69052507

Rwanda flights will only happen if you re-elect us is quite the election strategy to lead off with.

Timberrrrrrrr

Farage has bottled it, I guess 7 previous losses was too much for him.

He's off to work on the Trump campaign and make as much $$$ as he can, hopefully Trump screws him over.

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1793554758923588029?t=I05T8ywMqZ7ufz6_Sgb6aQ&s=19

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172891#Comment_122172891

Sounds like he is saying that the British election isn't of "huge global significance"

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172879#Comment_122172879

You can tell it that way if you like, but the last leader was subjected to abuse and lies from every corner of the establishment with the Guardian leading the charge. He didnt stand a chance of been assessed honestly by a gas lighted public.

breezy1985

My favourite thing in all this so far and maybe my favourite thing all year has been the Tory backbenchers crying about being forgotten and betrayed by Sunak for not giving them time to prepare for life after their incoming unemployment.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172867#Comment_122172867

I don't think they do. I hear more and more discontent about FPTP these days than I recall hearing a decade ago. You yourself even referenced the 2011 referendum. Obviously, that wasn't for a PR system but the fact that it even happened is remarkable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172876#Comment_122172876

No red flag quite like borrowing tropes from Farage and Trump. It's the hallmark of extreme ideologies.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170557#Comment_122170557

An embarrassment to the entire nation.

But dear old dad wasn't much better TBH.

wazzzledazzle

These absolute scumbags are going to be annihilated, and thankfully very soon.

60 odd seats. Hopefully at least a decade in opposition.

Never known a political party that is as racist and as inebt as this lot.

I wonder would Penny be interested in the job after the latest muppett is turfed out.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172755#Comment_122172755

Unfortunately in a two horse race, that's the choice.

I've no faith that Starmer's Labour will do anything substantive to change Britons lives for the better, but after the destructive decade+ of Tory disaster politics, it'll be "better" by simply existing. If they even reduce the number of people relying on food banks, it'll be a win.

You never know, maybe Keir will fuck off after a while and Ange might get the gig. I'd rather see her as leader than him, truth be told.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172879#Comment_122172879

You win elections here by dominating the centre. Tony Blair, David Cameron and now, Sir Keir have proven that. It took me a while to accept this but it's true.

I don't think the tabloids and the other rags, including the Guardian are anywhere near as powerful as some make out. It's been something like a century since a government won more than half the vote. Johnson got 42.6% in 2019 if memory serves. Most people voted for pro-Remain parties but such is the British electoral system.

I expect Starmer to play it extremely safe for the first year or two before becoming quite radical. It's what the first New Labour government did and, Iraq aside, it worked quite well.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173039#Comment_122173039

Of course, it's everyone else's fault that Corbyn made himself unelectable as PM.

His absolute bottling of both the Brexit referendum campaign and it's aftermath; his tolerating and turning a blind eye to anti-semitism; pandering to Russia repeatedly, including after the Salisbury poisonings (which is something he's continued out of leadership, even after the Ukraine invasion).

Being blunt about it - in an Irish context much of his views and positions align quite closely with the likes of Mick Wallace. Would anyone consider Mick Wallace to be a suitable leader for a country.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172891#Comment_122172891

Didn't fancy losing to a dolphin again I'd say.

brick tamland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172891#Comment_122172891

Waiting for the tories to take a hammering before trying to take over the party maybe?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173271#Comment_122173271

He didn't bottle it, he actively sabotaged the Labour remain campaign run by Alan Johnson. He'd spent his career voting against every piece of pro-EU legislation which is fair enough but then he had the gall to pretend to support Remain and he gave it seven out of ten in an interview.

I'd forgotten about Salisbury as well. Thanks for reminding me. Mick Lynch came out for Russia in 2022. As bad as the Tories are, they at least got a portion of the foreign policy stuff right.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173197#Comment_122173197

Dominate the centre but just don't let it go to your head and call for Brexit or obliterate Iraq. That's the key to success.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173296#Comment_122173296

The problem with the likes of Corbyn and Lynch are they are entrenched in their anti NATO/US imperialism view so hard that they end up supporting even worse evils like putin. The world is simply not that black and white.

gmisk

Christ what a shambles putting plants in the audience to ask arranged questions.

https://bylinetimes.com/2024/05/23/rishi-sunak-staged-election-question-from-conservative-councillor-posing-as-ordinary-voter/

ancapailldorcha

It's NHS Susan and Factcheck UK all over again.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173271#Comment_122173271

I'm sick of this nonsense on here from some people. Corbyn didn't "turn a blind eye to antisemitism", he threw people out of the party for merely having an ACCUSATION against them. Most of which were absolute bullshit. He simply couldn't win against that type of underhanded politicking. As soon as he came out in favour of a Palestinian state, his days were numbered and you can see the same type of tactics being used by Israel and their shills today. The only difference is that the majority of the world are against what Israel is doing in Gaza at the moment and have woken up to the reality of what is going on over there under the likes of criminals like Netanyahu.

There was a couple of hundred ACCUSATIONS of so called "antisemitism" against Labour party members out of a membership of hundreds of thousands, one of which was even dead and some weren't even Labour Party members. Less than 0.4% of the PLP (less than the national average) had the fingers pointed at them and, more often than not, the accusation was fact and evidence free.

Any claim that was made against a Labour party member was investigated, even the he said/she said rubbish that made up most of the claims were taken seriously and a lot of time was wasted on it, when better things could have been done instead. It got to a point where anyone who had a finger pointed at them got reprimanded and put under suspension while they were "investigated" and if there any kind of tangible evidence at all, they were immediately expelled from the party.

The whole thing was bloody absurd and a sickening example of the type of dirty politics that plagues Britain at the moment.

That a man like Jeremy Corbyn, who has done more than anyone on this thread to fight against racism of all forms, including antisemitism, is now considered to be antisemitic by many people is truly a disgusting situation and a prime example of how rampant lies can damage people.

ancapailldorcha

The Economist are predicting the following:

The central scenario of The Economist’s prediction model, which draws from polls and the results in individual constituencies in elections dating back to 1959, is that Labour will win 381 seats to the Tories’ 192 (see chart), a thumping majority of 112 mps. The model gives less than a 1% chance that the Conservatives would win a majority of seats if an election were held tomorrow. 

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173440#Comment_122173440

Yeah I dont think thats gonna happen. They might be correct with the labour number but i think they are vastly underestimating how many seats reform will be able to nick from the tories.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173514#Comment_122173514

Reform won't get many seats. Remember that UKIP at the peak of their powers got 12.6% in 2015 and were rewarded with a sole MP, Douglas Carwell. Reform are polling at similar numbers. Their goal is to further radicalise the Conservatives, not win power.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173523#Comment_122173523

Ohh I know but i think reform have been cleverer and are a bit more focused in specifically vulnerable seats. Im prepared to be very surprised by how many seats they manage to get.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173534#Comment_122173534

It won't matter. Few care about local elections but in national ones, they cleave rather strongly to their traditional party. Most of the UK haven't heard of Reform, I'd say.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173514#Comment_122173514

I wouldn't expect Reform to take any seats from the Tories, but they could certainly help send several towards the Lib Dems. That suggested figure of just 22 seats (58 at most) for the Lib Dems against about 200 for the Tories seems to be very pessimistic.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173057#Comment_122173057

Great comment on that in the Guardian yesterday:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/22/cringing-in-the-rain-soggy-rish-kickstarts-his-farewell-tour

melancholyMotel
16 hours ago

So, onto the 5th of July. Here's what I want[wish] for those Tory MPs, kicked out the commons and after a good cry in a sports hall at 3am, particularly those of them, like me, who are 50 plus, to experience...

I want them to have to face the system they've created.
The system they've overseen and inflicted on the population.
I want them to experience the process of navigating the benefits system they've created; to come face-to-face with a Job Coach, at a Job Centre and place themselves into the hands of the DWP.
I want them to be told they can't have anything because they have too much in savings, or because they're with a partner, and they must support them.

I want them to experience the five-week wait for the first payment, and then to see just how they manage on £84.09 a week.
I want them to have to go through the relentless grind of trying to find a meaningful job, something that leads to a new career - or even picking up an old one - and finding door, after door, after door closed to them.

I want them to be faced with the threat of sanctions if they don't find a job in four weeks, even though they don't receive their first payment for five weeks.

To present themselves in the beauty pageant of the interview process, when they're in no fit state to do so. The time spent, the hopes that they built, and the effort put in, in preparation, are considerable, yet walking into each interview each time expecting to fail, because they've already been rejected. To experience the pressure you put yourself under when that job is the only path you can see out of the abyss you're in?

I want them to discover what it's like to try to sleep with hunger gnawing at their stomach. What it's like to have to decide between eating today - or putting the heating on. What it's like to face the humiliation of presenting yourself to a 'Work Coach' and explain how hard you've been trying to find a job in a market where they're too old, too experienced, or not experienced enough in that specific role they're looking for, or that they're one of 40 or 50 applicants for a job; knowing it's utterly hopeless and, anyway, by then they're so beaten down by it all that even the most menial role out there they now doubt their ability to undertake because their self-esteem and confidence are gone.

I want them to have to accept a job, that's 90 minutes journey from their home, on minimum wage, which means they still need to claim benefits to top up their earnings at a cost to the taxpayer, because their employer is more interested in maximising their profit. than paying their staff a fair wage.

I want them to discover, when they want us all to work until we're 70, that nobody wants to employ us after we're 50.

I want them to discover that they won't be 'languishing' on benefits, that finding a dentist, getting a GP appointment, or relying on public services is a hopeless exercise.
I want them to go around the supermarket with a calculator, adding up what they are picking up, so they don't overspend, and I want them to feel the shame of having to put the banana back at the checkout, because it's just tipped the balance over the maximum you can afford.

I want them to experience what it's like to be afraid to open the post. To be afraid of knocks at the door, afraid of calls from numbers they don't recognise. to lose all self-confidence, all optimism. To have no self-esteem or dignity. A self-loathing that's hard to deal with.

I want them to have to navigate the utterly broken housing market, I want them to have to try to find a property that they can afford, and that isn't going to to cost more than they might receive in housing benefit.

I want them to have to sell personal belongings, just to bridge the gap between the pittance they have to live on, and what they need to have a semblance of a life.

I want them to experience this, the misery of the poverty and situation they've visited up those with the least, the lives they live, and how punching down has been the order of the day for far too long, when there are people who are gliding along, with untold amounts of money, and getting richer and richer.

And then I want to hear them still defend their actions, and still blame the people with the least for all the woes of the people with the most.

I know it's a forlorn dream but, God, I wish viscerally that it would happen.

Oh, and finally. Sunak's also a b'stard for upstaging the incredibly brave Craig Mackinlay on the day he returned to Parliament, as a quadruple amputee Sepsis survivor. I may not agree with his politics, but I admire his courage.