General British politics discussion thread

Timberrrrrrrr

Well this could get interesting

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/28f948c4-70b5-4b29-a094-ea5ccfc2a53b?shareToken=5c4a6c70a61b4815ab8dc3e3c926d968

breezy1985

Just resting in his account 🤣

There is definitely a danger of having a 600+ parliament in a 2 party system with hugely safe seats. Leads to some absolute loopers going under the radar.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032468#Comment_122032468

According to one of Jeremy Paxman's books (Political Animal if I remember correctly) in the 1990s the Conservatives maintained something called the "unstable list". The alcoholics, those in debt, those with 2nd families in London, …

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032556#Comment_122032556

Wasn't there a picture of a list of miscreants and "handy" Tories floating around here not so long ago.

Itssoeasy

I see liz truss is disengaging her brain again by waffling on on the false assumption that her opinions hold any weight. She has called for the governor of the Bank of England of resign for some reason. She also thinks the UN should be disbanded.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032395#Comment_122032395

British people love banning things. It's part of the culture here. It's infuriating as it often stunts discussion of important topics.

Another trend has been to ban things again despite them already being banned. Statues are a good example. Vandalism was already a crime before the Conservatives introduced draconian sentences for damaging statues. They introduced a new offence for petnapping despite theft already being a crime.

It's all rather pointless given the state of the police, the legal system and the courts but we are where we are.

Akabusi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032583#Comment_122032583

See might have a point on the UN. Anyhow stopped clock and all that.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032575#Comment_122032575

Allegedly a whips office list. Whips need to know what dirt there is to bully MPs to vote for unsavoury things.

Itssoeasy

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1780720820127441063

Another Tory has lost the whip.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032405#Comment_122032405

They say Tories don't support illegal immigrants, what nonsense he paid that brazilian rent boy well by the sounds of it.

Queue Shapps (is that still his name?) saying we have to wait for due process while advocating for crucifying Rayner.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033370#Comment_122033370

YeYeah Was just listening to Schapps spouting his lies, here's the mad article about the Brazillian lad.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-mps-rent-boy-lover-3380331?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033565#Comment_122033565

Yep that spreadsheet has been fairly accurate...

Shapps is a clown not sure how that fraudster and his multiple names have got so high in government.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033609#Comment_122033609

A combination of loyalty, pliability, and the fact that he possesses no talent or any other attribute that would make him a threat.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033005#Comment_122033005

I suppose S&M is so rife among Tory MPs, that a few are bound to lose the whip at some point.

retalivity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032780#Comment_122032780

As well as banning things, another favourite is shouting about the EU/Central Bank/Illuminati banning things that aren't actually banned - bendy bananas, pint glasses, etc.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033941#Comment_122033941

That's when they pick up the black rod....

Danzy

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/18/former-snp-chief-executive-peter-murrell-charged-over-embezzlement-husband-nicola-sturgeon

Nicola Sturgeon, isn't a Unionist plant but she and her clique could not have been more effective agents for the crown if they were and were exceptionally capable ones.

The waste of space in the head job in Edinburgh is just making sure that the Scottish independence cause is buried for good.

Hopefully Murrell never sees a day outside jail again and Nicola as well, and that's being generous, they deserve so much more than a trial and a cell.

Water John

The Independents, expelled from their parties, at 18, have a larger number of MPs than the 15 Lib Dems;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/18/losing-the-whip-who-are-the-18-uk-mps-sitting-as-independents

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035941#Comment_122035941

SNP heading for losses in the upcoming elections.

And once Labour get in, they will lose a huge part of their identity which is to oppose and hate the Tory Party. That's how they get votes.

This position has got them into trouble already over the trans issue. Because they soon found they were out of step with the Scottish public.

More long term, I think Brexit was and remains a disaster for Scottish independence. Scots are hardly going to vote for independence and then have to apply for EU membership which could take a decade or more.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036381#Comment_122036381

Lib Dems in a good year are the 4th biggest party in a two party system.

In a bad year they'd be 5th or possibly even 6th. Relevant at local level or to prop up one of the main parties, but very unlikely this time out.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036593#Comment_122036593

The SNP would be hard-pressed to avoid losses even in substantially better circumstances. They are doing ok if they get 30-35 seats (i.e. not far off the 2017 result) and last time I checked they were calculated to get 28. However if the SNP fall down to 10-15 then yes both them and independence are finished as far as my generation are concerned.

I doubt it'll take a full decade. Arguably (though I personally don't buy it) since Scotland voted remain in 2016 a referendum to rejoin is not required.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038948#Comment_122038948

It takes at least a decade for a new country to gain entry to the EU. They also have new rules on member states on the Euro which will cause many Scots to turn off the EU.

Independence was put off for a generation in the 2014 referendum anyway. They had their vote. They voted No. That's it for 20 or 30 years.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122039570#Comment_122039570

Sweden signed up for the Euro thirty years ago. But, sad story, the Krona never quite converged. We pegged to Sterling until we didn't have to anymore.

The EU is good at fudges.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040393#Comment_122040393

Of course, but only if it suits the EU.

Scotland may have to create a border with England if they were to join the EU. That will present a massive headache for the EU and something they may not be interested in touching.

I feel Scotland's chances of independence are almost zero at the moment until the UK rejoins the EU.

breezy1985

While I agree the independence is done for a while I don't think the border would be a huge problem. The Scottish border is a geographical pinch point so is much less problematic than the Irish border or places like the Polish borders.

The biggest worry for the EU would be Scotland's ability to control the GUIK gap. It would probably end up requiring significant French and German naval commitments.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040592#Comment_122040592

hint : Iceland won the Cod Wars (plural) with the UK because they were able to leverage their NATO membership and "mind the gap!"

Most of the questions about Scottish independence can be answered by looking at what happened here, in this case treaty ports , or US troops being based in NI (and Iceland) during WWII.

political analyst

What makes those Tories who want to remove Sunak from office think that a change of leadership would make any difference to their party's prospects in the general election?

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122039570#Comment_122039570

If there is another independence referendum at any point in the future and Scotland does become independent, it will be the only European country that would let people as young as 16 years (the current minimum age for voting in Scottish Parliament elections) in general elections - if the Scottish government kept that minimum age. No other country in Europe lets 16-year-olds vote in general elections.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040457#Comment_122040457

I'm not sure why you think a land border with (what would remain of) the UK would "present a massive headache" for the EU. The EU has many thousands of kilometres of land border with more 21 third countries, one of which is already the UK. Why would a further 150km of border with one of those countries be so problematic for the EU?

If there's a problem for anyone here, it's a problem for Scotland.

Obviously, Scotland can't accede to the EU unless it's independent. And, equally obviously, an independent Scotland could make a choice about whether to apply for accession or not, so it would weigh up the pros and cons. For the purpose of the discussion lets assume that this plays out at a time when the UK is still not a member of the EU or the SM.

If Scotland doesn't join the EU (or the SM) then it's free to seek a close bilateral trading relationship with the UK which would minimise border friction — e.g. a customs union with the UK; agreements on goods standards; etc. Obviously that in turn has a cost, in terms of minimising independent Scotland's opportunity to make its own trade deals, set its own market standards, etc, but they could do it. But if they join the EU or the SM while the UK remains out, then the SCO/UK border looks like, say, the Greece/Albania border, or the Romania/Moldova border. And that would be a problem for Scotland which does a huge proportion of its external trade either with, or through, the rest of the UK.

So, basically, they'd have to make a choice - close trade integration with the UK, or close trade integration with the EU. Both options have significant costs. The choice they'd make, though, is fairly clear; if Scotland chooses to be independent, then it would certainly follow through and choose to integrate with the EU rather than with rump-UK; the whole logic of the independence choice points that way.

What Brexit has done is to (a) increase the incentive for Scotland to seek independence, but (b) increase the economic costs of doing so. Basically, it has raised the stakes on both sides of that question. From a unionist point of view that's a bad thing, since the best outcome in this scenario is the Scotland remains in the union, but with additional reasons to be unhappy about that, and unionists (presumably) prefer a happy and functional union to a bitter and dysfunctional one.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040908#Comment_122040908

If they think that, they're delusional. But the more likely explanation is that they don't think that; they are positioning themselves for the inevitable struggle for control of the party after the election. They think — or hope — that if they have someone from their faction in the leader's seat they are better positioned to come out on top in the post-election bloodletting.

(The presumption is that if a new leader is installed and goes for an election and loses it, he won't be blamed for losing it; it will be accepted that he came to the leadership when irreversible damage had already been done to the party's standing with the public.)