Hoarders

lulu1

Just watched an episode of hoarders Do people really live like this

Hoarding is one thing but the dirt and filth .

And why does the person who lives with them let it happen

Leg End Reject

It's a symptom of underlying psychological or psychiatric issues rather than a logical decision. Those programmes are heartbreaking to watch.

lulu1

Leg End Reject wrote: »

It's a symptom of underlying psychological or psychiatric issues rather than a logical decision. Those programmes are heartbreaking to watch.

yeah I guess so but why do their family let it get so bad

Leg End Reject

lulu1 wrote: »

yeah I guess so but why do their family let it get so bad

It's hard to reason with a person with mental health issues. If it was easily done the problem wouldn't exist in the first place.

A better question might be about the ethics of filming it for entertainment.

skooterblue2

Leg End Reject wrote: »

It's a symptom of underlying psychological or psychiatric issues rather than a logical decision. Those programmes are heartbreaking to watch.

Do you ever watch and wonder what was the condition or incident that triggered this mental health/ psychological condition?
A tragic death?
Relationship breakdown?
sexual assault?
traumatic shock?

There must be a program within a program. Saying that I am a hoarder and I am neither dirty or smelly.

Leg End Reject

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Do you ever watch and wonder what was the condition or incident that triggered this mental health/ psychological condition?
A tragic death?
Relationship breakdown?
sexual assault?
traumatic shock?

There must be a program within a program. Saying that I am a hoarder and I am neither dirty or smelly.

Yes, it's voyeuristic to watch, but for that very reason, I would like the back story. Some might have life-long conditions, or a traumatic event or series of them.

"How clean is your house" was similar, people living in absolute filth and squalor.

The programmes appeal because we get to feel superior, and maybe even mock the participants, but I wonder how they fare after?

skooterblue2

Leg End Reject wrote: »

but I wonder how they fare after?

You know the cart slips down the hill and back where we started within 3-6 weeks

Pinch Flat

Had a relation who lived like this in London. Died about 18 months ago in absolute squalor. He Had a one bed sit - I'd say0 it was about 30 sq. M. Place was in an absolute heap. You literally couldn't get in the front door without climbing over masses of ****e. Same with the sitting room. Took a good few skips to clear the place out.

Leg End Reject

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You know the cart slips down the hill and back where we started within 3-6 weeks

I've seen episodes where the hoarder is traumatised throwing out rubbish - plastic bags etc. The producers obviously want to see a visible result at the end of the programme so I'm sure there's some unethical persuasion used.

Ladybird18

Watched it one night when the woman hoarded cat s**t.
Well dont know if she hoarded it exactly but the house was covered in it.
Some serious issues there.

skooterblue2

Leg End Reject wrote: »

The producers obviously want to see a visible result at the end of the programme so I'm sure there's some unethical persuasion used.

Maybe that can be very real given the personal condition.
You take someone with Aspergers or HFA and throw out some of their collection..... watch 'em flip out. That is reality, something they have collected for years, stalked on the internet auctions, found in antique and charity shops. There is no acting there.

Leg End Reject

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Maybe that can be very real given the personal condition.
You take someone with Aspergers or HFA and throw out some of their collection..... watch 'em flip out. That is reality, something they have collected for years, stalked on the internet auctions, found in antique and charity shops. There is no acting there.

I don't doubt the reaction is real, I'm just curious about how the result is achieved. Are they coerced into complying because the producers want a result? How are the participants after the cameras leave?

I'm not familiar with HFA, but am aware of the obsesssive aspect of some on the spectrum.

skooterblue2

Leg End Reject wrote: »

I don't doubt the reaction is real, I'm just curious about how the result is achieved. Are they coerced into complying because the producers want a result? How are the participants after the cameras leave?

I'm not familiar with HFA, but am aware of the obsesssive aspect of some on the spectrum.

Higher functioning Autism? It is very similar Aspergers but the speech is delayed until later can be as late as 7-8 years old. Albert Einstein didnt speak until much later as a child. It the collection they are into, and collect all items and variants. Some are impossible to achieve but its about the chase and getting the next one.

Raconteuse

As I like cleaning, I do watch the start and the end to see the job that gets done. The in between is too grim.

The most extreme of those shows is Call The Cleaners.

skooterblue2

Raconteuse wrote: »

As I like cleaning, I do watch the start and the end to see the job that gets done. The in between is too grim.

The most extreme of those shows is Call The Cleaners.

Do you mean the cleaners like ladies with the mop and bucket or the cleaners like Winston Wolf?

Raconteuse

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Do you mean the cleaners like ladies with the mop and bucket or the cleaners like Winston Wolf?

Some of the stuff in it is so mental they'd need a Mr Wolf!

skooterblue2

Raconteuse wrote: »

Some of the stuff in it is so mental they'd need a Mr Wolf!

Once again focus on the cause and not the symptom.
I think the reason some collect toys (particularly dolls), is because something tragic happened and they are trying to remember a happier time before that so they can retreat to that.

lulu1

They all seemed to have experienced some trauma in their lives
,
I think there is a bit of a hoarder in everyone even myself I cant brig myself to give away some of the kids toys even though they are into their teens and twenties, but I know if I would just do it I wouldnt bother me afterwards

Raconteuse

I'd say some are just extremely lazy and manky, but the majority aren't well. And some a combination of the above too.

I'm the other way - cannot stand clutter, I hold on to very little. But thankfully not like the cleaners in Obsessive Compulsive Cleaners, many of whom are also very unwell too.

headtheball14

It is a mental health issue. I was close to someone with this problem. Everyone including close family offered help even hired skips and cleared things out. They would be as bad and worse when we called again.
Got upset and very angry if we cleared anything and wouldn't allow us to clean.

Is working and very busy outside. Is totally delusional about it and the way she lives. I have distanced myself the last few years. Still meet every now and again but won't go to the house, it's too upsetting. You might as well ask why families let alcoholics keep drinking.

Graces7

Would not watch a programme like that. Did so once and that was enough. So intrusive and shaming. At base how a person chooses/needs to live is their business not ours. Unless they ask for help or are actively endangering themselves.

Widdershins

I haven't seen it but sometimes they save things because they anticipate an eventual use for everything.

Throwing away might be too normalised as well. There is no "away".
However, I imagine their lives are negatively affected by retaining whatever they refuse to throw out.

B.A._Baracus

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Yes, it's voyeuristic to watch, but for that very reason, I would like the back story. Some might have life-long conditions, or a traumatic event or series of them.

"How clean is your house" was similar, people living in absolute filth and squalor.

The programmes appeal because we get to feel superior, and maybe even mock the participants, but I wonder how they fare after?

I think you're right. It is about feeling superior.

My two cents to add to the topic: while yeah some of them have deep issues it is reality TV. Don't place too much faith in everything you see.

Like you could see how someone lives and go my god... Then in reality it's his spare bedroom and the rest of the house isn't that bad. But hey gotta make a show so let's focus on that room etc.

Am sure if you sat down with one of the producers you'd be shocked with the tricks

Bob Harris

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Do you ever watch and wonder what was the condition or incident that triggered this mental health/ psychological condition?
A tragic death?
Relationship breakdown?
sexual assault?
traumatic shock?

There must be a program within a program. Saying that I am a hoarder and I am neither dirty or smelly.

Yeah but you would say that wouldn't you?

beauf

lulu1 wrote: »

Just watched an episode of hoarders Do people really live like this

Hoarding is one thing but the dirt and filth .

And why does the person who lives with them let it happen

I know a few of people who are hoarders. In the early stages, at least so that you can't use many rooms and the place is dusty but not filthy. They go crazy if you tidy up anything. They undo anything you sort out.

I've yet to see how you fix these problems.

beauf

Looking online suggests cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) which I've never heard of.

Lonesomerhodes

Leg End Reject wrote: »

It's a symptom of underlying psychological or psychiatric issues rather than a logical decision. Those programmes are heartbreaking to watch.

People not being able to let go off the past, often after a death.

Even if the stuff is pure rubbish and crap Things remind them, don't want more loss, don't want more letting go etc so to speak.

Seen people hoard like crazy when they lose someone and aren't even aware they are doing it

Wanderer78

beauf wrote:

Looking online suggests cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) which I've never heard of.

Just starting it myself, well it's cbt based

Sky King

Mild hoarders (for want of a better expression) just don't like getting rid of stuff, but once it;s gone they usually either don't notice or don't care so that's the trick

Just wait until they're not there, then do a clear out.

beauf

Been there got the t-shirt. Made the mistake of putting stuff in the bin. Which they used to go through and recover.
Now I take it away with me. But they do notice something is gone.

I also destroy any paper junk they are hording. But you have to be careful often documents you need to keep are buried in boxes of other paper work.
A favorite seems to by nesting paper envelopes, so you have many envelopes one inside the other, there might be paper inside, there maybe not.
Ditto box and bags, like Nesting dolls. Endless tbh.

the_pen_turner

Sky King wrote: »

Mild hoarders (for want of a better expression) just don't like getting rid of stuff, but once it;s gone they usually either don't notice or don't care so that's the trick

Just wait until they're not there, then do a clear out.

That's a disgraceful attitude. Those are someone's possessions . It's not your decision to make.
If someone threw out anything of mine without permission they would come home to a lot 9f their stuff dumped. Just because you see no value in something doesn't mean the owners doesn't

beauf

the_pen_turner wrote: »

That's a disgraceful attitude. Those are someone's possessions . It's not your decision to make.
If someone threw out anything of mine without permission they would come home to a lot 9f their stuff dumped. Just because you see no value in something doesn't mean the owners doesn't

Its not that simple. You might have a duty of care to the person.

Lonesomerhodes

Sky King wrote: »

Mild hoarders (for want of a better expression) just don't like getting rid of stuff, but once it;s gone they usually either don't notice or don't care so that's the trick

Just wait until they're not there, then do a clear out.

Utter crap.

Hoarders are emotionally attached to the stuff hence can't let it go!.

I know a hoarder who went into hoard overdrive when her husband died. This woman had literally 6 foot piles of old newspapers but she would cop one missing.

No lie!

seamus

From what I can tell, they mostly fall into two buckets (with some exceptions obviously).

1. People who suffer a traumatic incident in life and develop an inability to throw things away as a coping mechanism.

2. People who look at things and think, "I might need this in future" - like we all do - but do so a little bit too often. Then ten years later they're surrounded by rubbish and they know it, but they can't cope with the scale of the problem. They cannot fathom how they could possibly find the time to go through their possessions and sort it out. They reality is that 99.9% of it is rubbish, but in their heads they have to look at everything before deciding to keep it. So they just bury their head in the sand and plow on.

People in category #2 seem to do quite well with the approach where someone else comes in and just clears it out. It seems catharthic when the decision is taken out of their hands, and they seem to do OK long-term.

People in category #1 have the opposite response and can get worse if their stuff is just taken. They need proper long-term psychological help to get over their trauma.

beauf

I see a mix of both in the people I know.

beauf

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Utter crap.

Hoarders are emotionally attached to the stuff hence can't let it go!.

I know a hoarder who went into hoard overdrive when her husband died. This woman had literally 6 foot piles of old newspapers but she would cop one missing.

No lie!

In my experience, they will notice something has changed, but not what. They know for example there was box in that spot. No idea what was in it, but they knew that space wasn't empty.

the_pen_turner

seamus wrote: »

From what I can tell, they mostly fall into two buckets (with some exceptions obviously).

1. People who suffer a traumatic incident in life and develop an inability to throw things away as a coping mechanism.

2. People who look at things and think, "I might need this in future" - like we all do - but do so a little bit too often. Then ten years later they're surrounded by rubbish and they know it, but they can't cope with the scale of the problem. They cannot fathom how they could possibly find the time to go through their possessions and sort it out. They reality is that 99.9% of it is rubbish, but in their heads they have to look at everything before deciding to keep it. So they just bury their head in the sand and plow on.

People in category #2 seem to do quite well with the approach where someone else comes in and just clears it out. It seems catharthic when the decision is taken out of their hands, and they seem to do OK long-term.

People in category #1 have the opposite response and can get worse if their stuff is just taken. They need proper long-term psychological help to get over their trauma.

There is another category. The ones who keep stuff that they see value in and are perfectly happy. I know lads like that with bits of old machinery. It looks like rubbish but it's not to them

the_pen_turner

beauf wrote: »

Its not that simple. You might have a duty of care to the person.

That fine if it's a filth mess with cat sh1t everywhere bags of gone off food. Most horders are perfectly clean

beauf

the_pen_turner wrote: »

That fine if it's a filth mess with cat sh1t everywhere bags of gone off food. Most horders are perfectly clean

Can be clean and still a hazard. No access to toilet, bathroom, no bed free, no table free, fire hazard, trip hazard. Unable to find important documents. Lots of things.

beauf

the_pen_turner wrote: »

There is another category. The ones who keep stuff that they see value in and are perfectly happy. I know lads like that with bits of old machinery. It looks like rubbish but it's not to them

Depends where they keep it. If the kids can't have wash because there's a steam engine in the bathroom and another 20 identical ones on the property.

Widdershins

It's really not on to dispose of other peoples belongings but if it's in your own/your shared property and they cannot be reasoned with then some kind of intervention has to be made. Bearing in mind one man's junk is another man's treasure, if it truly is a health and safety issue, the hoarder may need to respect the decision. In my experience theyre rather spoilt eccentrics who enjoy getting away with upsetting people. That's category #3.

Strumms

Sky King wrote: »

Mild hoarders (for want of a better expression) just don't like getting rid of stuff, but once it;s gone they usually either don't notice or don't care so that's the trick

Just wait until they're not there, then do a clear out.

This, my father could be described as a mild hoarder, place as in main house is very neat and tidy, extremely so but the garage and office in the converted attic are full of odds and sods, stuff there will never be a use for but if it’s suggested to give it to the bin he doesn’t entertain the idea, he’ll find a use he says or find someone to give it to... meanwhile it builds up, the mother getting impatient now with him.

Has to be psychological, can’t be any reasonable excuse but it’s so much stuff that it is just, strange. He was always a collector, a collector of antiques and there is some real nice, decorative stuff, of some value but lots of crap too. She made him do a mini clear out a while back but half of it ended up back upstairs :pac:

beauf

Widdershins wrote: »

It's really not on to dispose of other peoples belongings .....

I think thats missing the point somewhat...


https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hoarding-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20356056

Signs and symptoms may include:

Excessively acquiring items that are not needed or for which there's no space

Building up of clutter to the point where rooms become unusable


https://adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/hoarding-basics

Hoarding is not the same as collecting

Raconteuse

Some don't want to keep the stuff - they're just too overwhelmed to figure out where to start.

A Call The Cleaners recently featured a guy who sank into severe depression when his wife died. The father and son sorted his flat out, getting rid of loads (except of course important items in memory of his wife) and by the end, it was like a little palace. Absolutely beautiful. He was so happy!

Steve F

For the last few years of his life the Billionaire Howard Hughes kept his urine in sealed bottles and had it transported with him where ever he went
Now that is odd

Greyfox

seamus wrote: »

Then ten years later they're surrounded by rubbish and they know it, but they can't cope with the scale of the problem. They cannot fathom how they could possibly find the time to go through their possessions and sort it out. They reality is that 99.9% of it is rubbish, but in their heads they have to look at everything before deciding to keep it. So they just bury their head in the sand and plow on.

And when it gets this bad people underestimate just how difficult it is to go back to normal. You could spend hours and hours and it will look like you've barely made a dent in it

Widdershins

beauf wrote: »

I think thats missing the point somewhat...


https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hoarding-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20356056

Signs and symptoms may include:

Excessively acquiring items that are not needed or for which there's no space

Building up of clutter to the point where rooms become unusable


https://adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/hoarding-basics

Hoarding is not the same as collecting

I lived with a hoarder so I am familiar with it. OCD had nothing to do with it.
The rest of my post addressed the point if you read the whole post

UI_Paddy

It all depends on how you define hoarding. I've definitely seen people confuse it with collecting, but if you know how to keep it in moderation there is a very clear distinction between the two. Some people just like to own things that are sentimental, meaningful or valuable to them. As long as you are doing it within your means (both financial and spacial) I don't see a problem.

Strumms

Steve F wrote: »

For the last few years of his life the Billionaire Howard Hughes kept his urine in sealed bottles and had it transported with him where ever he went
Now that is odd

That’s just taking the piss

beauf

Widdershins wrote: »

...OCD had nothing to do with it.
...

I assume thats why it said "...most often associated..."

Steve F

Strumms wrote: »

That’s just taking the piss

:pac: