How do low wage workers manage to live here?

whisky_galore

Cleaners, cooks, chefs, waiters, baristas?
Esp in Dublin.

If people on decent wages, even doctors struggle with accom, I can't understand how they get by?

at9qu5vp0wcix7

HAP and social housing would sort out a decent amount - anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of those on the social housing list in the last 10 years have been from abroad. The majority probably put up with house shares or even room shares and work their arses off to pay rent.

GreeBo

They take the jobs that the unemployed Irish are too good to take.
They dont try to live in expensive, highly desirable areas.
They dont have new cars, fancy mobile phones, go on the piss every weekend and take sun holidays.

zell12

_Brian

They live in houses where landlords stack 8-10 adults to a room in bunks.

jam_mac_jam

Aranza Low Billiards wrote: »

HAP and social housing would sort out a decent amount - anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of those on the social housing list in the last 10 years have been from abroad. The majority probably put up with house shares or even room shares and work their arses off to pay rent.

You don't get HAP if you are working full time. The social housing list is very long.

Likelyhood is they live in low standard rental accommodation.

myshirt

_Brian wrote: »

They live in houses where landlords stack 8-10 adults to a room in bunks.

You lack ambition. You could easily squeeze another few in there if you stack them head to toe.

In the house i use to live in, the 3-bed semi next to me was rented to some eastern Europeans they had granny and grandad in one room daughter and her husband in another and their son in his twenties in the other room. They all had jobs so five incomes. The daughter has two job cleaning and working in a chipper.

Thats how they do it.

CucaFace

These jobs are in the most part done by English language students who live here for a couple of years and are more willing to put up with the tough living issues (ie 3/4 to a bedroom).

BanditLuke

_Brian wrote: »

They live in houses where landlords stack 8-10 adults to a room in bunks.

Actually i know of one house that had 38 people living there in the Dundrum area. Landlord was making over 7k rent per month and this was only a 5 bedroom house. One of the neighbours reported it and it turned out he was only declaring 8 living there.

Some fierce greedy feckers out there.

Beta Ray Bill

whisky_galore wrote: »

Cleaners, cooks, chefs, waiters, baristas?
Esp in Dublin.

If people on decent wages, even doctors struggle with accom, I can't understand how they get by?

This is an interesting question, and has even more interesting answers.

So as already mentioned these people live in the accommodation types:

1: With Parents
2: Shared accommodation
3: HAP
4: Living with spouse who makes significantly more money
5: Council housing

I don't know what the proportions are.

Regardless it's interesting as some fast food and coffee places in Dublin City Centre are (or were) making colossal sums of money. This is not reflected in what they pay their staff.

So long as there is no outside interference, it should be simple case of supply/demand.
Companies need to pay more to get staff in the City centre, it's that simple.

Where water gets muddy is when you have 5:council housing and people on 3: HAP, these people have very low rents despite living in Dublin and as such are prepared to work for a low amount of money as it's irrelevant to them, as the Lions share of their total income is the fact that they, on average pay only a fraction of the Rent everyone else is paying.
So post Tax/Rent they usually end up with the same amount of disposable income as everyone else.

This means companies can get away with paying them very little.
This then has a knock on affect which effects people in situation 1,2 and 4.

It's very complicated, once you fall into that hole, it's a nasty circle that goes round and round and is very hard to get out of.

HAP and Council housing are basically charity, and there are cases where when you give charity to a person, you end up keeping them down.

milhous

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You don't get HAP if you are working full time. The social housing list is very long.

Likelyhood is they live in low standard rental accommodation.

Not true. There's caps on income. Ie. In dublin you can get HAPs up to a treshold of 35k for a single person and 42k for a family.

nthclare

whisky_galore wrote: »

Cleaners, cooks, chefs, waiters, baristas?
Esp in Dublin.

If people on decent wages, even doctors struggle with accom, I can't understand how they get by?

They accept their responsibilities and are able to manage their lives accordingly.

I left the urban sprawl myself in 2005 bought a house from inheritance in the Burren and live a simple enough life.
Working as a gardener/tree surgeon used to work as a statistical analyst in a big company in the City.

Had an accident in 1997 which nearly paralysed me, fell off a tree.
Only 3 years graduated from Horticulture at the time.
Told by the orthopedic Surgeon Maha Lingham in Cork id never be able to do heavy manual work unless I really work hard and build my self up like an athlete and sustain it.

Went to college and re-educated myself and went into the financial world.
Hated it got athletic and took the chance, seen an opportunity and said which is it stressed out in the City or a peaceful rural life.

I suppose lucky for me to get inheritance money from a relative, set myself up.

I had luck on my side and had a dream too and fulfilled it.
Away from the noise and chaos of the city.

A lot of people can do what I did its a gamble but if you really want it, go for it.

There's no shortage of single people and couples from the cities living on the western fringes of Clare making it work for them.

Thelonious Monk

Where there's a will there's a way. I have lived on next to nothing in various places, you can always do it if you are determined enough.

Yurt2

GreeBo wrote: »

They take the jobs that the unemployed Irish are too good to take.
They dont try to live in expensive, highly desirable areas.
They dont have new cars, fancy mobile phones, go on the piss every weekend and take sun holidays.

That's Tory guff.

There seems to be a severe problem in a certain section of society where they harbour a massive and unhealthy hatred for swathes of the Irish populace. They rank themselves very highly but are most likely raging mediocrities in life.

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

That's Tory guff.

There seems to be a severe problem in a certain section of society where they harbour a massive and unhealthy hatred for swathes of the Irish populace. They rank themselves very highly but are most likely raging mediocrities in life.

It also can be creepy reames of posts about people they know nothing about but obesses about the sort of live they suppose live, one posters evidence was a TV program he watched a few years ago where he could see a skybox in the background.

The eastern European who lived next door to me did have very trifty lifestyles but I would say that was because they were saving to buy back where they come from.

Dude89

GreeBo wrote: »

They take the jobs that the unemployed Irish are too good to take.
They dont try to live in expensive, highly desirable areas.
They dont have new cars, fancy mobile phones, go on the piss every weekend and take sun holidays.

So what's in for them if they're living so miserable?

Graces7

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

HAP and Council housing are basically charity, and there are cases where when you give charity to a person, you end up keeping them down.

Not and not true. Rights as citizens.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Not and not true. Rights as citizens.

In places like Dublin, it acts as a subsidy to employers so they do not have to pay massive salaries and we don't have to pay 5 euro fo a coffee. its a form of social support.

Beta Ray Bill

Graces7 wrote: »

Not and not true. Rights as citizens.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

In my mind, if you give somebody something because they aren't as well off as everyone else, that's charity.

I believe in social policies, we should absolutely be providing housing for people that cannot work at all or cannot work a 39 hour week, for whatever reason.

I do not for one second believe we should be providing said housing in Dublin when the cost of housing and land is the highest in the country.

It creates an unusual dynamic due to government interference in the free/open market.
These companies are well about to pay more, they just don't because they done have to.

Beta Ray Bill

mariaalice wrote: »

In places like Dublin, it acts as a subsidy to employers so they do not have to pay massive salaries and we don't have to pay 5 euro fo a coffee. its a form of social support.

I paid €8.50 for a 2 double espressos and pastry this morning... still not cheap.
There is huge markup on Coffee.

dartboardio

Really? Are you even here long?

They're absolutely sorted, with very low council rent, one parent family payments, child benefit, the works!!

Yes a single person with no kids having to pay rent may be struggling.

But if you're on a low income and have children you're sorted. Mad


Please don't pity people on low income, most of them if they have kids are on double their wage, once all the SW payments kick in.

whisky_galore

dartboardio wrote: »

Really? Are you even here long?

They're absolutely sorted, with very low council rent, one parent family payments, child benefit, the works!!

Yes a single person with no kids having to pay rent may be struggling.

But if you're on a low income and have children you're sorted. Mad


Please don't pity people on low income, most of them if they have kids are on double their wage, once all the SW payments kick in.

Why aren't you doing it, seeing as it's such a cushy number?

dartboardio

whisky_galore wrote: »

Why aren't you doing it, seeing as it's such a cushy number?

I dont have children, and wouldn't want any for quite a few years.

That seems to be how it goes, have a few babies and you're sorted (if on a low income or SW)

Why would I want that life? All I'm saying is the low income workers don't have it too bad if you take into the account the social wekfare benefits from having children

BanditLuke

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

This is an interesting question, and has even more interesting answers.

So as already mentioned these people live in the accommodation types:

1: With Parents
2: Shared accommodation
3: HAP
4: Living with spouse who makes significantly more money
5: Council housing

I don't know what the proportions are.

Regardless it's interesting as some fast food and coffee places in Dublin City Centre are (or were) making colossal sums of money. This is not reflected in what they pay their staff.

So long as there is no outside interference, it should be simple case of supply/demand.
Companies need to pay more to get staff in the City centre, it's that simple.

Where water gets muddy is when you have 5:council housing and people on 3: HAP, these people have very low rents despite living in Dublin and as such are prepared to work for a low amount of money as it's irrelevant to them, as the Lions share of their total income is the fact that they, on average pay only a fraction of the Rent everyone else is paying.
So post Tax/Rent they usually end up with the same amount of disposable income as everyone else.

This means companies can get away with paying them very little.
This then has a knock on affect which effects people in situation 1,2 and 4.

It's very complicated, once you fall into that hole, it's a nasty circle that goes round and round and is very hard to get out of.

HAP and Council housing are basically charity, and there are cases where when you give charity to a person, you end up keeping them down.

Excuse me my family and i live in a council house. We pay a percentage of our combined income on rent. It's most certainly not charity thanks very much.

anto9

You can save a small fortune by never buying Coffee in a Coffee shop and beer in a Pub. Applies to Ireland mostly and Dublin in particular............................Don't feed the extortion .

milhous

BanditLuke wrote: »

Actually i know of one house that had 38 people living there in the Dundrum area. Landlord was making over 7k rent per month and this was only a 5 bedroom house. One of the neighbours reported it and it turned out he was only declaring 8 living there.

Some fierce greedy feckers out there.

Tbf if they're in the higher rate after tax its more than likely sub €3500 per month, plus the ware and tear that 38 ppl would have on a gaff, the collections of moneys.. Not exactly attractive. Never mind wanting to evict anyone, almost impossible.

BanditLuke

milhous wrote: »

Tbf if they're in the higher rate after tax its more than likely sub €3500 per month, plus the ware and tear that 38 ppl would have on a gaff, the collections of moneys.. Not exactly attractive. Never mind wanting to evict anyone, almost impossible.

As i said he was declaring 8 living there think it was 2k a month to revenue and the rest was cash into the palm. Anyway he got caught and the house was sold some time later and is now a building site. He's one of many though unfortunately. Scum.

Diceicle

mariaalice wrote: »

In the house i use to live in, the 3-bed semi next to me was rented to some eastern Europeans they had granny and grandad in one room daughter and her husband in another and their son in his twenties in the other room. They all had jobs so five incomes. The daughter has two job cleaning and working in a chipper.

Thats how they do it.

And fair play to them.
My understanding of the above scenario is that they do it for a number of years as a means to an end. The end-goal for the coupld of years living close quarters is that it provides them the ability to get a ball of money together that enables them to set up a business and or buy a home in their native country - for a sum that would not touch the sides of such a venture here.

Yurt2

Someday there will be a fire in one of those slumlord houses and there will be hell to pay. It's a tragedy waiting to happen.

BattleCorp

whisky_galore wrote: »

Cleaners, cooks, chefs, waiters, baristas?
Esp in Dublin.

If people on decent wages, even doctors struggle with accom, I can't understand how they get by?

Ha ha ha.

Chefs are very much in demand and most earn quite a good wage. I know chefs on over €80k.

Yurt2

BattleCorp wrote: »

Ha ha ha.

Chefs are very much in demand and most earn quite a good wage. I know chefs on over €80k.

The stats (albeit from 2018) would contradict that.


https://fora.ie/chefs-pay-ireland-3861386-Feb2018/


It's a brutal industry, and it's only those at the top of the heap in high-end restaurants and hotels on that type of coin.

LeinsterDub

GreeBo wrote: »

They take the jobs that the unemployed Irish are too good to take.

Yeah sure they do

Ireland is close to 'full employment', new CSO figures show

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-is-close-to-full-employment-new-cso-figures-show-38183662.html

martingriff

Dude89 wrote: »

So what's in for them if they're living so miserable?

Short term pain to look to the longterm. There is a guy who is a fast food deliver I know who has taken 4 days off in 3 years.

LeinsterDub

nthclare wrote: »

I suppose lucky for me to get inheritance money from a relative, set myself up....


A lot of people can do what I did its a gamble but if you really want it, go for it.

But isn't wrong to murder by granny to get the inheritance? :rolleyes:

SusieBlue

dartboardio wrote: »

Really? Are you even here long?

They're absolutely sorted, with very low council rent, one parent family payments, child benefit, the works!!

Yes a single person with no kids having to pay rent may be struggling.

But if you're on a low income and have children you're sorted. Mad


Please don't pity people on low income, most of them if they have kids are on double their wage, once all the SW payments kick in.

That's not a very accurate representation of your average low paid worker.
The ones who are getting the council houses with low rent, one parent family, full medical cards etc are the ones who aren't even working because it isn't worth their while. They are financially better off not bothering.

The baristas, waitresses, retail workers etc. are absolutely struggling and they are entitled to little to no government help.

_Brian

myshirt wrote: »

You lack ambition. You could easily squeeze another few in there if you stack them head to toe.

Indeed.
I’ve a 5 bedroom rented and only two knocking about in it. I’m seriously missing a trick.

Eric Cartman

_Brian wrote: »

They live in houses where landlords stack 8-10 adults to a room in bunks.

The landlords almost never organise these, most often the landlord believes a couple has rented a 1-2 bed and come back to find their furniture has been sold and replaced by bunk beds, the original tenants nowhere to be seen except coming back to collect rent off 8-10 other people on a friday

DellyBelly

What wage would you consider low? I would think someone in Dublin on 50K would be on low pay. That might not be a bad wage in the country but in the city you would wonder how a person can survive on it. Think the average wage in Dublin is north of 55k imo

Eric Cartman

BattleCorp wrote: »

Ha ha ha.

Chefs are very much in demand and most earn quite a good wage. I know chefs on over €80k.

A head chef absolutely, quick order grill chefs and lower down the tier would struggle to make 15 quid an hour

whisky_galore

BattleCorp wrote: »

Ha ha ha.

Chefs are very much in demand and most earn quite a good wage. I know chefs on over €80k.

Yes to first bit, certainly not "most" earning a good wage.

Yurt2

DellyBelly wrote: »

What wage would you consider low? I would think someone in Dublin on 50K would be on low pay. That might not be a bad wage in the country but in the city you would wonder how a person can survive on it. Think the average wage in Dublin is north of 55k imo

The average 'earned income' per person in Dublin city is put at 40k. So we can take the median to be below that.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/article38239841.ece

The article is from midway through last year but from my reading, it appears to be quoting from 2016 stats (?).

The CSO is all over the place with their income reporting. Need to up their game.

GreeBo

Dude89 wrote: »

So what's in for them if they're living so miserable?

Thats not miserable, thats they way most of our parents and most of anyone over 35 lived when they left education.



Also whats in it for them is a chance of a job, a home, a future and not being bombed, shot or tortured in their home country.

GreeBo

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Yeah sure they do


https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-is-close-to-full-employment-new-cso-figures-show-38183662.html

There are ~670,000 foreign nationals in Ireland.
There are still >105,000 unemployed.

Why are there still >105,000 unemployed?

BattleCorp

GreeBo wrote: »

Why are there still >105,000 unemployed?

Because they are either unemployable or don't want a job.

GreeBo

BattleCorp wrote: »

Because they are either unemployable or don't want a job.

Oh I know that, I'm responding to the poster who thinks there arent Irish people unwilling to work.

smurgen

GreeBo wrote: »

They take the jobs that the unemployed Irish are too good to take.
They dont try to live in expensive, highly desirable areas.
They dont have new cars, fancy mobile phones, go on the piss every weekend and take sun holidays.

Lol as mobile phones are the new let them eat cake.

jobeenfitz

GreeBo wrote: »

They take the jobs that the unemployed Irish are too good to take.
They dont try to live in expensive, highly desirable areas.
They dont have new cars, fancy mobile phones, go on the piss every weekend and take sun holidays.

Ur dead right, they exist rather than live. Can't be having fukn fancy phones or sunny holidays!

Beta Ray Bill

BanditLuke wrote: »

Excuse me my family and i live in a council house. We pay a percentage of our combined income on rent. It's most certainly not charity thanks very much.

From the Eoin Murphy thread:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111925442&postcount=89

There are approx 253,000 council houses/flat in Ireland, with the vast majority in Dublin. They represent approx 15% of all dwellings in Ireland.
Last year local authorities got approx €350M in rent for these, meaning on average people in these units paid approx €115.28 per month
This data is skewed a little however as the total arrears last year countrywide for council housing was €73.6M
To add to this, there are approx 86,000 waiting for social housing.

In addition to this, there are another 60,000 units being rented which is supplemented via HAP. In these circumstances tenants pay approx €50 per week themselves and the rest is paid by the council. Again the vast majority of these are in Dublin.

So to summarise, 18.5% (nearly 1 in 5) of all house holds in the country are paying on average less than €38 a week for rent, with the bulk on tenants living in Dublin.

I have no idea what you're paying per month, but if it's significantly less than €1500 (and you're living in Dublin) then you are in effect, receiving aid.
Note: there is absolutely nothing at all wrong with that at an individual level/personal level, and I in no way mean to imply there is.
I'm not trying to belittle or troll you.

I'm just trying to point out the big gap between council and private

BanditLuke

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

From the Eoin Murphy thread:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111925442&postcount=89



I have no idea what you're paying per month, but if it's significantly less than €1500 (and you're living in Dublin) then you are in effect, receiving aid.
Note: there is absolutely nothing at all wrong with that at an individual level/personal level, and I in no way mean to imply there is.
I'm not trying to belittle or troll you.

I'm just trying to point out the big gap between council and private

Of course there is and that's because some landlords and all the investment funds are absolutely coining it. That's not the fault of council tenants like myself or my wife. The market is like it is because that's the way FFG have planned it, that's where people who are paying these outragous rents should be directing their rightful anger towards.

Btw every single citizen of the state recieves aid in some shape or form. Be it if you live in a council house, recieve child support or call an ambulance for someone or yourself, call the Gardai etc... that is state provided aid. That's how a society should work.

Beta Ray Bill

BanditLuke wrote: »

Of course there is and that's because some landlords and all the investment funds are absolutely coining it. That's not the fault of council tenants like myself or my wife. The market is like it is because that's the way FFG have planned it, that's where people who are paying these outragous rents should be directing their rightful anger towards.

The rent is Global thing
Any English speaking, capital city in the world is expensive to live in and the issues we have in Ireland are 30 years in the making.
Private land lords are bailing out of the market at the minute... "Landlord" is a dirty word in Ireland now and no one really wants to be associated with it. (unless they've 3 or more properties and making a killing on it)

BanditLuke wrote: »

Btw every single citizen of the state recieves aid in some shape or form. Be it if you live in a council house, recieve child support or call an ambulance for someone or yourself, call the Gardai etc... that is state provided aid. That's how a society should work.

Agreed, and I also believe that some should absolutely get more than other depending on circumstances.

However I also believe that we should avoid situations where aid/support to one group of people in need of X artificially and significantly inflates the price of X for others.

I'm bidding on houses at the moment, and I've been outbid twice by the council. It's extremely irritating that the council are buying 2nd hand dwellings to give to people in Dublin city, that don't work or work part time, when they could just as easily have given them a house well outside the city in a small town or village.
I get people want their social supports etc, but we're talking about a commodity valued over €370,000 here.

Even more irritating is the council selling off houses at a steal to long term tenants. And then saying they have no stock left