Why are people still docking dogs' tails?

hamburgham

Why do so many people still dock dogs’ tails? It’s so sad. I wish there was some sort of educational campaign against it. The tail communicates so much to us and to other dogs.


The poor old Jack Russells seem to be particular victims, so often left with barely a stump after their tail has been hacked off. Barbaric. Could someone be prosecuted for this?

Redneck Reject71

hamburgham wrote: »

Why do so many people still dock dogs’ tails? It’s so sad. I wish there was some sort of educational campaign against it. The tail communicates so much to us and to other dogs.


The poor old Jack Russells seem to be particular victims, so often left with barely a stump after their tail has been hacked off. Barbaric. Could someone be prosecuted for this?

I thought they made that illegal here not so long ago?

Junkyard Tom

Sure they still cut bits off perfectly good babies' genitals because they believe some dude in Heaven thinks it's a good idea. We're simultaneously a very intelligent and fantastically stupid species.

Die Hard 2019

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Sure they still cut bits off perfectly good babies' genitals because they believe some dude in Heaven thinks it's a good idea. We're simultaneously a very intelligent and fantastically stupid species.

Who's they ?

SnazzyPig

It's to stop happy dogs knocking over expensive wine.

Junkyard Tom

Die Hard 2019 wrote: »

Who's they ?

Jews, Muslims, and goodness knows who else.

Die Hard 2019

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Jews, Muslims, and goodness knows who else.

In America it seems to be very common among christians.

ILoveYourVibes

its illegal here

Bannasidhe

It's been illegal since 2014 for anyone except a vet or vet nurse to dock a dog's tail but there are exceptions where a pointer/spaniel/terrier is to be used in lawful hunting/pest control

Although there has been a few prosecutions as with all animal welfare laws the enforcement is patchy to say the least.

Guards aren't interested tbh so it's up to the ISPCA to bring prosecutions.
Their inspector network is limited and tbh even where it exists isn't always what it should be.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/125/made/en/print

Really if a dog less than 6 years old had a docked tail questions should be asked and if necessary very public prosecutions take place with large fines imposed and soon people would get the message.

But that's not happening.

tuxy

Die Hard 2019 wrote: »

In America it seems to be very common among christians.

The majority are circumcised in America and it has very little to do with religion. It has to do with erroneous claims that it has health benefits.

Itssoeasy

I honestly didn't know terriers has their tails docked. For the majority of my life as a child and as an adult ive had boxers who have always had docked tails(the ears have never been touched because the look stupid imo) and yes I know they are born with tails but I'd never owned one with a tail and a boxer with a tail to me just looks strange.

jaxxx

Redneck Reject71 wrote: »

I thought they made that illegal here not so long ago?

2014 according to Wikipedia (not that it's anyway reliable).

endacl

Itssoeasy wrote: »

a boxer with a tail to me just looks strange.

And a boxer without a tail doesn't look strange?!?

:pac:

Itssoeasy

endacl wrote: »

And a boxer without a tail doesn't look strange?!?

:pac:

Well to me no but as I said until it was banned it'd neither owned one nor seen a boxer with a tail. Anyway with my last dog dying just before Christmas that's my last one as I couldn't do that again.

BuboBubo

Because people are fcukin dumb.

I had a beautiful rescue dog with a docked tail, a Rottweiler. Poor thing must have been in agony. Rotties have lovely tails.

Don't get me started on the ear clipping nonsense on the poor bull-breeds, it's disgusting and so cruel.

Redneck Reject71

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Sure they still cut bits off perfectly good babies' genitals because they believe some dude in Heaven thinks it's a good idea. We're simultaneously a very intelligent and fantastically stupid species.

I don't understand why you would try to derail a thread about docking dog's tails with a religious theme?

Thelonious Monk

Why are people still eating pigs which never see the light of day?

Suckit

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I honestly didn't know terriers has their tails docked. For the majority of my life as a child and as an adult ive had boxers who have always had docked tails(the ears have never been touched because the look stupid imo) and yes I know they are born with tails but I'd never owned one with a tail and a boxer with a tail to me just looks strange.

It does look strange at first, but way better imho.

Redneck Reject71

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why are people still eating pigs which never see the light of day?

My first job as a teenager was in a slaughterhouse, and to this day I still don't eat pork or beef.

SnazzyPig

It's an interesting debate. Personally I would never have a dog's tail docked but there are those that claim it affects a dog's confidence to not have a tail. Traditionally we have bred dogs for specific purposes and to serve those purposes the dog might be better off without a tail.

Scarinae

I only realised a few years ago that corgis actually have tails but they are normally docked. Their tails are often glorious too!

Airyfairy12

Seriously, people should be forced to take mandatory tests and courses before theyre allowed near an animal.

Why do some people get pets when theyve such a disrespect for animals?

Bannasidhe

BuboBubo wrote: »

Because people are fcukin dumb.

I had a beautiful rescue dog with a docked tail, a Rottweiler. Poor thing must have been in agony. Rotties have lovely tails.

Don't get me started on the ear clipping nonsense on the poor bull-breeds, it's disgusting and so cruel.

I have 5 rescues (4 jacks and a jack x corgi) and all their tails are docked
The jack x corgi had just the end of his tail docked leaving him with 3/4s of what he should have, all the jack were just left with stumps. :mad:

I used to have a jack and her tail wasn't docked, watching her use it as a rudder when she was swimming was a joy to behold - especially when she'd catch sight of me and start wagging it so end up going in circles.

Her tail was so expressive. She would even flip you off with it.

Redneck Reject71

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Seriously, people should be forced to take mandatory tests and courses before theyre allowed near an animal.

Why do some people get pets when theyve such a disrespect for animals?

Because that is the market the puppy farmers target unfortunately.

Bannasidhe

Scarinae wrote: »

I only realised a few years ago that corgis actually have tails but they are normally docked. Their tails are often glorious too!

Pembrokeshire corgis don't have tails.
The Cardigan does.

SnazzyPig

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Seriously, people should be forced to take mandatory tests and courses before theyre allowed near an animal.

Why do some people get pets when theyve such a disrespect for animals?

Some animals work with humans and can have their work inhibited by tails. They're not pets, as much as we love them.

Scarinae

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Pembrokeshire corgis don't have tails.
The Cardigan does.

From Wikipedia:

While some outlying Pembroke Welsh Corgis are born with their tail naturally short or missing, the majority often have their tails docked between 2–5 days old due to historical tradition or in order to conform to the Breed Standard.[14] Artificial docking was needed for the dog to do its job as a herding dog in the United Kingdom. A non-herding, "companion" dog was considered a luxury under tax law, and attracted a tax, so to demonstrate that their dogs were herding dogs, owners had to ensure the dogs had docked or bobbed tails. The Kennel Club,[15] the United Kennel Club,[16] and the FCI allow intact tails in Conformation shows. The AKC Standard states tails should be docked no longer than 2 inches (5 cm). In many countries, docking has been deemed illegal.[17]

Bannasidhe

Scarinae wrote: »

From Wikipedia:

While some outlying Pembroke Welsh Corgis are born with their tail naturally short or missing, the majority often have their tails docked between 2–5 days old due to historical tradition or in order to conform to the Breed Standard.[14] Artificial docking was needed for the dog to do its job as a herding dog in the United Kingdom. A non-herding, "companion" dog was considered a luxury under tax law, and attracted a tax, so to demonstrate that their dogs were herding dogs, owners had to ensure the dogs had docked or bobbed tails. The Kennel Club,[15] the United Kennel Club,[16] and the FCI allow intact tails in Conformation shows. The AKC Standard states tails should be docked no longer than 2 inches (5 cm). In many countries, docking has been deemed illegal.[17]

I stand corrected.

We had a pembrokeshire when I was a kid and he naturally had no tail (my mother had very strong views about such things) so I assumed all Pembrokeshires naturally had no tails.

Bannasidhe

SnazzyPig wrote: »

Some animals work with humans and can have their work inhibited by tails. They're not pets, as much as we love them.

There are already exceptions for pointers/spaniels/terriers used for hunting and pest control.

What work are you referring to? Serious question.

SnazzyPig

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There are already exceptions for pointers/spaniels/terriers used for hunting and pest control.

What work are you referring to? Serious question.

You answered the question yourself.

khalessi

Old English Sheepdogs look beautiful with their tails

SnazzyPig

khalessi wrote: »

Old English Sheepdogs look beautiful with their tails

Their tails also make fine paint brushes.

(Joke)

Bannasidhe

SnazzyPig wrote: »

You answered the question yourself.

Then the exception is there - but docking has to be done by a vet or vet nurse and there are conditions that have to be met.

One of my rescue jacks was born after 2014. She was found as a starving stray pup with an infected stump of a tail.
I seriously doubt any docking was carried out by either a vet or vet nurse.

Most docking is cosmetic. There is absolutely no need for it.

Junkyard Tom

Redneck Reject71 wrote: »

I don't understand why you would try to derail a thread about docking dog's tails with a religious theme?

I was making the point that humans are dumb creatures with weird practices. I didn't mean to derail the thread. Would you like me to delete my posts?

Grab All Association

Shocking that we are 3 pages in and no one has brought up Pavee Point. Boards.ie is becoming more generation snowflake as the week goes by

Xertz

I remember reading a scientific study in the alleged benefits of this and they really didn’t stack up at all. It seems to be a practice that’s based on nothing but a load of nonsense that became accepted as justifications for doing it.

It seems to be effectively banned here since 2014.

Dogs’ tails are essential parts of their communication system and part of how the express a wide range of emotions both towards humans and other dogs. There’s evidence they may be less able to communicate essential states to other dogs, causing accidental conflict too.

There was evidence that it can cause balance issues as the tail is used for counter balancing body movements.

It can also cause issues with back damage due to changes in the physiology of how their backs work due to loss of tail and due to abnormal shaking of their whole body to mimic communication.

There’s also further evidence to show it can cause long term pain issues as the tail is highly enervated and has a structure similar to a spine.

So basically it’s unscientific nonsense. Plenty of quackery passes for science and will have people claiming it’s great due to their firmly held, but entirely illogical beliefs.

Some practices in the US like debarking dogs and declawing cats are utterly vile. I encountered a debarked dog in the US and quite honestly it was one of the saddest things I’ve ever seen.
There are even some residential developments the the US that specify this barbarism in the lease and the fact that vets would do such a thing in my view should have them struck off.

jaxxx

Redneck Reject71 wrote: »

Because that is the market the puppy farmers target unfortunately.

I can't remember where, but it was only a few months back I was reading an article regarding puppy farms, and genuine breeders as well. The long and the short of it was, there should be no breeding as long as there are animals in adoption centres. Not really to do with puppy farms, but I'm of the opinion people should always look to adopt first rather than get puppies/kittens/etc. Yes we all love how cute and adorable young animals are, but why bring more dogs/cats into the world when there are already hundreds throughout the country without homes.

Always Tired

SnazzyPig wrote: »

You answered the question yourself.

But those arent the reasons for the majority of docking, it's usually rich pr*cks who are worried about some vase being knocked over.

Worst i ever seen was when I worked at a vets that did boarding in a really well to do area in the US. Dogs with rich AF owners leaving them for weeks on end in loud, cramped kennels nearly half the year was bad enough but one of my favorite dogs was this beautiful Irish Setter poodle mix (looked like a Labradoodle) who was always super happy, loved to jump and play, and had a big waggy tail, until one day the owners gave the order to hack it off and the vet made a complete hames of it.

It was cut about halfway through the tail, not docked into a nub (probably cuz he was past the age you usually would do it), and poor Wrigley was so sad, no more jumping or wagging his tail. It took ages to heal and didnt heal right, the end became like a big knot so instead of just a normal tail the dog now had a still pretty long tail shaped like a club, which I imagine was probably even more likely to knock things over.

When I first saw him the vet who did it was in the room and I was taking him out of the kennel for a walk and I said 'Oh my god, Wrigley, what did they do to your tail, you poor baby?' And she was like 'He's fine." And I told her straight out, 'No you f*ckin butchered it.' Which I got in trouble for because according to the vet nurses this made her cry.

Oranage2

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It's been illegal since 2014 for anyone except a vet or vet nurse to dock a dog's tail but there are exceptions where a pointer/spaniel/terrier is to be used in lawful hunting/pest control

Although there has been a few prosecutions as with all animal welfare laws the enforcement is patchy to say the least.

Guards aren't interested tbh so it's up to the ISPCA to bring prosecutions.
Their inspector network is limited and tbh even where it exists isn't always what it should be.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/125/made/en/print

Really if a dog less than 6 years old had a docked tail questions should be asked and if necessary very public prosecutions take place with large fines imposed and soon people would get the message.

But that's not happening.

I'm not sure that would work, if I adopted a stray dog with a docked tail then I'd have every Tom, Dick and Harry harassing me when I walk then dog. That or the pound wouldn't rehome dogs with docked tails and put them down

Tilikum17

jaxxx wrote: »

I can't remember where, but it was only a few months back I was reading an article regarding puppy farms, and genuine breeders as well. The long and the short of it was, there should be no breeding as long as there are animals in adoption centres. Not really to do with puppy farms, but I'm of the opinion people should always look to adopt first rather than get puppies/kittens/etc. Yes we all love how cute and adorable young animals are, but why bring more dogs/cats into the world when there are already hundreds throughout the country without homes.

unfortunately people today are more interested in how the dogs looks, than things like temperate and finding out about the health issues that breed will have later in life.

Graces7

Redneck Reject71 wrote: »

My first job as a teenager was in a slaughterhouse, and to this day I still don't eat pork or beef.

Or lamb

Graces7

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have 5 rescues (4 jacks and a jack x corgi) and all their tails are docked
The jack x corgi had just the end of his tail docked leaving him with 3/4s of what he should have, all the jack were just left with stumps. :mad:

I used to have a jack and her tail wasn't docked, watching her use it as a rudder when she was swimming was a joy to behold - especially when she'd catch sight of me and start wagging it so end up going in circles.

Her tail was so expressive. She would even flip you off with it.

My JRT/Bassett cross had three tail speeds. Slow, fast and ecstatic.... Side to side, up and down and in fast circles....

Bannasidhe

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'm not sure that would work, if I adopted a stray dog with a docked tail then I'd have every Tom, Dick and Harry harassing me when I walk then dog. That or the pound wouldn't rehome dogs with docked tails and put them down

I didn't suggest every Tom, Dick and Harry take action.
I said the proper authorities should.
And if a person adopted a dog with a docked tail it would be a simple matter to note on the adoption papers that the tail had been docked. That would satisfy the proper authorities.

It always amazes me why we Irish are so good at finding reasons for why things - like enforcing the law - can't be done but are so apparently unable to find ways is can be done.

As for Tom, Dick and Harry for 16 years I had them commenting on how I should have docked my beautiful jack's tail. And for 16 years I told them to mind their own business.

B0jangles

I recently ran into a friend who I knew kept bully breed type dogs, I think he breeds them too. Anyway, he'd a beautiful, friendly 5 month old pup with him - big smiley face, wagging tail and ears that had been cut down to horrible little points

Honestly I was so shocked I didn't know what to say. I patted the pup and walked away as soon as I could.

How could any decent person mutilate a puppy's body like that?

charlietheminxx

B0jangles wrote: »

I recently ran into a friend who I knew kept bully breed type dogs, I think he breeds them too. Anyway, he'd a beautiful, friendly 5 month old pup with him - big smiley face, wagging tail and ears that had been cut down to horrible little points

Honestly I was so shocked I didn't know what to say. I patted the pup and walked away as soon as I could.

How could any decent person mutilate a puppy's body like that?

That's actually illegal throughout Europe, it is a disgusting thing to do to a dog. If you know someone doing this habitually, I'd report him :mad:

Tazzimus

Our Doberman has a tail and floppy ears, and while she looks a bit goofy, I much prefer it.
She's so much more expressive with her ears and tail, having them docked would remove all of that.
I have gotten a few bruises from getting whacked in the leg from her tail though, thing is like a horse whip :pac:

There are valid reasons for docking the tail, if it's been damaged etc, but people absolutely should not be doing it this long after it's been made illegal.
I've seen plenty of terrier types that have had tight bands stuck to their tales so it stops blood flow to the tail so it can be docked, horrible process.

LirW

I have a pure-bred Australian Shepherd from a line of show dogs. My family was close to the breeder, she was reputable and all and had many of her dogs competing in shows. Her wan was a nutjob though, the aesthetic of the dog came over almost anything.
Aussies would be docked in America just about anywhere and this is the preferred show standard
Obviously docking isn't allowed for shows so breeders found a way around it. Because it's not allowed in Europe they started declaring pups with "natural short tails" as in, they're bred that way. This is perfectly fine for shows and it does indeed exist in Corgis for example. But the breeder told me, in reality, many Aussie breeders import from the US where 90% of all bobs are docked and natural ones are rather rare. So if pups are sold to Europe, they're docked and declared as natural bobs.
Generally there is a blind eye turned on it.

She'd only keep pups for shows that are born with a perfectly straight tail. Ear-taping is also quite common.
The world of dig shows is pretty disgusting tbh.

irish_goat

When I'm out with the dogs and we meet another dog with a docked tail I've taken to just straight up asking the the owner "what happened to their tail?".

Your Face

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why are people still eating pigs which never see the light of day?

Because bacon.

BattleCorp

BuboBubo wrote: »

I had a beautiful rescue dog with a docked tail, a Rottweiler. Poor thing must have been in agony. Rotties have lovely tails.

I know I'll get abuse for this but anyway.............. my Dad (now deceased) used to dock pups tails. He was involved in hunting and certain breeds of dogs get their tails docked. It prevents them getting tail injuries later in their life.

Docking tails is done when the dogs are pups, and having witnessed it being done, doesn't cause them a mad amount of discomfort. I suppose it's a bit like getting a baby circumcised. The pups would feel a bit of pain momentarily but wouldn't be in agony. They'd be back playing with you in a minute or two.

BattleCorp

B0jangles wrote: »

I recently ran into a friend who I knew kept bully breed type dogs, I think he breeds them too. Anyway, he'd a beautiful, friendly 5 month old pup with him - big smiley face, wagging tail and ears that had been cut down to horrible little points

Any time I see someone with a bulldog breed's ears cut, I think dog fighting. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: