Why do people get called racist so easily?

SwordofLight

Got a bit bothered reading something today where locals were complaining about people from a different culture suddenly being thrust upon their community. When they complained they were just called racist and that seemed to scare them into staying quiet.

For the love of God i don't think there is anything wrong with not wanting another foreign culture pushed on you and your family and community. It's pretty natural to resist this given our tribal evolution.

I'm not saying foreign cultures are all bad, however there are negatives which tend to be swept under the 'racist' carpet - e.g. schools being forced to change age old traditions to accommodate hugely increased numbers of other religions and cultural practices.. this is, like it or not, how our Irish culture gets 'neutralised' or 'sterilised'.. some of it is probably needed but it's a bit sad too.

But seriously, just because I want to protect my culture doesn't make me a racist. That's a horrible little culture that seems to have evolved. We're definitely in strange times.

Complaining against others just because they are from a different country or culture is racist.
So what's your issue exactly?

Odhinn

SwordofLight wrote: »

Got a bit bothered reading something today where locals were complaining about people from a different culture suddenly being thrust upon their community. When they complained they were just called racist and that seemed to scare them into staying quiet.

For the love of God i don't think there is anything wrong with not wanting another foreign culture pushed on you and your family and community. It's pretty natural to resist this given our tribal evolution.................

So what you're saying is that your irishness is so shallow it'll disappear if exposed to a different culture?

SwordofLight

No I didn't say any of what the three of you are implying. Stop being racist towards me

SwordofLight

bubblypop wrote: »

Complaining against others just because they are from a different country or culture is racist.
So what's your issue exactly?

Are you taking the piss? Racist means prejudice against RACE

SwordofLight

OSI wrote: »

What exactly counts as "being thrust upon their community"?




Where's the evidence of this happening?

Check out the front of the irish independent website

Odhinn

SwordofLight wrote: »

No I didn't say any of what the three of you are implying. ..............

No, that's exactly what your post amounts to. Your irishness and irish culture is so weak it can't withstand exposure to other cultures.

JohnnyFlash

Odhinn wrote: »

No, that's exactly what your post amounts to. Your irishness and irish culture is so weak it can't withstand exposure to other cultures.

Would that include the unionist and loyalist communities in Norn Iron?

mynamejeff

because its easier for stupid people to do so instead of analysing the issue and discussing it in a rational manner.

then again some people are racist A holes

SwordofLight

Odhinn wrote: »

So what you're saying is that your irishness is so shallow it'll disappear if exposed to a different culture?

No, didn't say that nor imply it. Put your specs back on. What I would say however is that the next generation will be less of the older Irish cultures, obviously.

Odhinn

SwordofLight wrote: »

No, didn't say that nor imply it. Put your specs back on. What I would say however is that the next generation will be less of the older Irish cultures, obviously.

You mean inter-generational change..like the way an older generation would never have voted for gay marriage, or more liberal abortion laws. Are those because of "different cultures"?

SwordofLight

Odhinn wrote: »

You mean inter-generational change..like the way an older generation would never have voted for gay marriage, or more liberal abortion laws. Are those because of "different cultures"?

I think you are twisting it now. Are you saying that being gay is a 'cultural' feature?

And if you re-read my post you will see i did acknowledge some old traditional beliefs may be better left in the past... but I think you are using those extremes to water the issue down and work towards villifying anyone who stands up for protecting Irish culture.

RonanG86

SwordofLight wrote: »

Are you taking the piss? Racist means prejudice against RACE

So that's your issue? That people aren't being literal to the term race as you understand it?

Well, I think you've answered your own question then. You appear to define race very specifically (I assume something like black, white, Asian), whilst others are basing it on some combination of culture and nationality.

Would it make you happy if they'd called the individuals in question "discriminatory based on nationality, language and cultural background" instead of "racist"?

dxhound2005

I wouldn't worry about it. The country is already a mixture of the descendants of all sorts of foreigners that came here over the last few thousand years.

SwordofLight

SwordofLight wrote: »

No I didn't say any of what the three of you are implying. Stop being racist towards me

How is anyone being racist towards you?
Explain please?

LessOutragePlz

I'd rather have a diverse population of people rather than strictly only Irish folks. That to me would be a very boring existence I think it's great to see the different influences other cultures have on areas such as sports, food, music etc.

SwordofLight

SwordofLight wrote: »

No, didn't say that nor imply it. Put your specs back on. What I would say however is that the next generation will be less of the older Irish cultures, obviously.

Really?
What about the Irish that moved overseas?
Do you think they continue their Irish culture? Music dance etc?
If they can continue their culture overseas, why do you think it would disappear here in Ireland?

SwordofLight

I agree.

It's when the native population become outnumbered and old traditions and communities are lost that is sad.

OSI

OSI wrote: »

What exactly counts as "being thrust upon their community"?




Where's the evidence of this happening?

Don't expect a thorough answer. OP reads as a paranoid whine about different cultures encroaching on his proud turf.

Odhinn

SwordofLight wrote: »

I think you are twisting it now. Are you saying that being gay is a 'cultural' feature?

No, I'm saying that inter generational change occurs regardless of exposure to 'foriegn culture'.

SwordofLight wrote: »

And if you re-read my post you will see i did acknowledge some old traditional beliefs may be better left in the past... but I think you are using those extremes to water the issue down and work towards villifying anyone who stands up for protecting Irish culture.

Again, you seem to have this notion that Irish culture - your irish culture - is easily undermined by exposure to different cultures. That says far more about you than the foriegners, tbh.

dxhound2005

SwordofLight wrote: »

I agree.

It's when the native population become outnumbered and old traditions and communities are lost that is sad.

That happened in America. But I don't think it will happen here.

SwordofLight

bubblypop wrote: »

Really?
What about the Irish that moved overseas?
Do you think they continue their Irish culture? Music dance etc?
If they can continue their culture overseas, why do you think it would disappear here in Ireland?

Have you lived abroad? Do you understand what happens?

Irish people abroad are generally respectful of the local cultures and tend to row in with the locals. Sadly that is not the case for some other cultures coming to ireland. I guess I'm a racist for saying anything negative about other cultures aren't I bubblypop :rolleyes:

Sleeper12

I don't believe people get called racist very easily in Ireland. I'm in my early 50s and have never been called racist. I don't know anyone who has been called racist. So I'm thinking that only a certain type of person gets called racist. Maybe these people aren't the victims they make themselves out to be.

RonanG86

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That happened in America. But I don't think it will happen here.

No, not unless the immigrants (and they weren't so much immigrants as conquerors) bring over illnesses that kill heaps of us.

SwordofLight

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That happened in America. But I don't think it will happen here.

It's happened in lots of countries. What makes you think it won't happen here?

Odhinn

SwordofLight wrote: »

It's happened in lots of countries. What makes you think it won't happen here?

...what happen here? Somebody having to share a bus with a foriegner and ending up less irish because of it?

nthclare

The word racism is like spirituality now, make up your own version of racism.

I ain't racist, I don't accuse anyone of being racist either.

Its a serious accusation to call someone racist should be as serious as being racist.

The repercussions of falsely accusing someone as being racist should be harsh.

SwordofLight

Odhinn wrote: »

No, I'm saying that inter generational change occurs regardless of exposure to 'foriegn culture'.




Again, you seem to have this notion that Irish culture - your irish culture - is easily undermined by exposure to different cultures. That says far more about you than the foriegners, tbh.

You're making a lot of assumptions now. I think it is pretty naive on your part to equate inter-generational change with change due to mass inter-cultural integration.

SwordofLight

Odhinn wrote: »

...what happen here? Somebody having to share a bus with a foriegner and ending up less irish because of it?

I can't help but feel you're out to troll the discussion...

Odhinn

SwordofLight wrote: »

You're making a lot of assumptions now. I think it is pretty naive on your part to equate inter-generational change with change due to mass inter-cultural integration.

...yeah, the whole 'foriegner makes me less irish' thing. Says a lot more about you than the foriegners tbh.

dxhound2005

SwordofLight wrote: »

You're making a lot of assumptions now. I think it is pretty naive on your part to equate inter-generational change with change due to mass inter-cultural integration.

The mass integration happened already. The foreigners became more Irish than the Irish themselves.

El_Duderino 09

SwordofLight wrote: »

No, didn't say that nor imply it. Put your specs back on. What I would say however is that the next generation will be less of the older Irish cultures, obviously.

Lots of elements of Irish culture have changed in the last 30 years. When I was a nipper there was lots of Irish dancing in the community Hall and it was done in the local schools. The older people knew the fairy tales and local stories about magic wells. That stuff is much less prevalent than in the past and it's nothing to do with foreigners. It's just Irish people choosing to do other things.

I wouldn't worry about other people, OP. If you're concerned about Irish culture the best way to preserve it is to learn the customs and practice it yourself. Complaining about foreigners is beside the point. But if you want to complain about foreigners and be racist*, go ahead.

*technically xenophobic. But thats just semantics. The term 'racist' covers both in common speech

SwordofLight

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't expect a thorough answer. OP reads as a paranoid whine about different cultures encroaching on his proud turf.

Thanks for your valuable contribution mate. I could take or leave the Irish culture. That's an assumption you've made which has blinded you to getting the point.

nthclare

I see the pitch forks and torches are out, won't be long now before the outrage starts at the OP

A tree with its roots inside out knows what the op is trying to suggest or explain..

Im not going to comment any more on the post, but this should be epic

05eaftqbrs9jlh

SwordofLight wrote: »

Thanks for your valuable contribution mate. I could take or leave the Irish culture. That's an assumption you've made which has blinded you to getting the point.

So you don't even care about your own race? Do you just hate every display of nationalism regardless who perpetrates it? That's worryingly insecure, sounds like you need to get help.

dxhound2005

The encouraging thing is that when they get integrated their children will be the ones complaining about the next lot of new incomers. Like the second and third generation South Asians voting for Brexit because of the arrival of East Europeans in cities in the North of England.

SwordofLight

SwordofLight wrote: »

Have you lived abroad? Do you understand what happens?

Irish people abroad are generally respectful of the local cultures and tend to row in with the locals. Sadly that is not the case for some other cultures coming to ireland. I guess I'm a racist for saying anything negative about other cultures aren't I bubblypop :rolleyes:

Yep I have lived overseas. & I have a lot of family that emigrated to the UK & USA.
All still are involved in Irish culture.
Irish dancing, Irish music & GAA
& yes they also get along with any other cultures they live with.

I lived overseas myself, as part of a contingent of Irish people. We held a festival on St Patrick's day, & everyone from many different countries attended, it went down very well, & everyone really enjoyed themselves.
Same as many other days/ celebrations I went to there, hosted by people from other cultures / countries. I had a great time at them
Didn't make me any less Irish.

marieholmfan

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. The country is already a mixture of the descendants of all sorts of foreigners that came here over the last few thousand years.

False.

It is the tuatha de danaan and that's it.

English, vikings, Gaels etc can **** off.

Tuatha de Danaan!

Sam Quentin

Racists are bolloxes.

SwordofLight

SwordofLight wrote: »

I could take or leave the Irish culture..

What do you mean by this OP?

SwordofLight

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lots of elements of Irish culture have changed in the last 30 years. When I was a nipper there was lots of Irish dancing in the community Hall and it was done in the local schools. The older people knew the fairy tales and local stories about magic wells. That stuff is much less prevalent than in the past and it's nothing to do with foreigners. It's just Irish people choosing to do other things.

I wouldn't worry about other people, OP. If you're concerned about Irish culture the best way to preserve it is to learn the customs and practice it yourself. Complaining about foreigners is beside the point. But I'd you want to complain about foreigners and be racist*, go ahead.

*technically xenophobic. But thats just semantics. The term 'racist' covers both in common speech

I'd have to disagree that the term can be casually used in common speech and refer you to the serious nature of it, as it is a criminal offence to be racist.

I've said there are good and bad aspects of other cultures coming into ireland but it seems people want to bash me and call me racist for any kind of notion that other cultures could be in any way negative. I don't know if you've all been living under a comfortable post-recession rock - there have been plenty of reports in the news and local newspapers of negative events linked to people coming into the country, the most recent being the fiasco in Tullamore today.
I obviously won't point out the extremes such as the 'Dublin' couple who were prosecuted the other week for FGM on their child, because that might make me 'racist'. I'm also aware of the young Syrian refugees playing hurling and football and I think that is amazing.

My eyes are open, are yours?

SwordofLight

Sarah Handsome Rumor wrote: »

So you don't even care about your own race? Do you just hate every display of nationalism regardless who perpetrates it? That's worryingly insecure, sounds like you need to get help.

You're confusing culture with race

dxhound2005

SwordofLight wrote: »

I obviously won't point out the extremes such as the 'Dublin' couple who were prosecuted the other week for FGM on their child, because that might make me 'racist'.

Now that you have pointed it out, I see nothing racist about you doing so.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

SwordofLight wrote: »

You're confusing culture with race

OK, correction. You don't even care about the culture of your own race, and just hate any infiltration of culture that isn't your personal one. To be honest, you're probably not being racist. You seem to have an opposition to any change in the culture around you or in any other place.

El_Duderino 09

SwordofLight wrote: »

I'd have to disagree that the term can be casually used in common speech and refer you to the serious nature of it, as it is a criminal offence to be racist.

Yeah, they are used interchangeable because they're the same thing just referring to race, culture, country of origin. Same thing.

Like I said, if you're worried about your culture, practice it. Irish culture has a strong oral tradition. Learn the stories and tell them to people who are interested... Or don't and just complain about foreigners and then complain about being called racist.

SwordofLight

Sarah Handsome Rumor wrote: »

OK, correction. You don't even care about the culture of your own race, and just hate any infiltration of culture that isn't your personal one. To be honest, you're probably not being racist. You seem to have an opposition to any change in the culture around you or in any other place.

Can you explain how you have deduced this.

Snotty

OP, as you can see, you've come to the wrong place if you want to have a conversation on immigration to Ireland, a conversation which has no negatives in being had as the result is usually it is good to have new races/cultures come in, however the good people of boards will shoot you down for even asking to have the conversations.
Todays moto is "I'll fight for your free speech, as long as its the speech I approve of"

El_Duderino 09

Snotty wrote: »

OP, as you can see, you've come to the wrong place if you want to have a conversation on immigration to Ireland, a conversation which has no negatives in being had as the result is usually it is good to have new races/cultures come in, however the good people of boards will shoot you down for even asking to have the conversations.
Todays moto is "I'll fight for your free speech, as long as its the speech I approve of"

Yeah but nobody has stopped them from speaking. It's a bit precious to complain just because everyone doesn't agree with you.

SwordofLight

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah, they are used interchangeable because they're the same thing just referring to race, culture, country of origin. Same thing.

Like I said, if you're worried about your culture, practice it. Irish culture has a strong oral tradition. Learn the stories and tell them to people who are interested... Or don't and just complain about foreigners and then complain about being called racist.

Well I think the point in the post here duderino is that racism is NOT related to culture, country of origin etc.

So, for logic sake, if I say I hate people from Canada but like people from America I'm a racist?

05eaftqbrs9jlh

SwordofLight wrote: »

Can you explain how you have deduced this.

SwordofLight wrote: »

Thanks for your valuable contribution mate. I could take or leave the Irish culture. That's an assumption you've made which has blinded you to getting the point.

SwordofLight wrote: »

But seriously, just because I want to protect my culture doesn't make me a racist. That's a horrible little culture that seems to have evolved.

You don't care about Irish culture or don't regard it as your culture but you nonetheless want to protect anything from changing, for some reason, and apparently not a racist reason.

El_Duderino 09

SwordofLight wrote: »

Well I think the point in the post here duderino is that racism is NOT related to culture, country of origin etc.

So, for logic sake, if I say I hate people from Canada but like people from America I'm a racist?

In colloquial usage it would be perfectly normal to call that racist. The legal definition would be more precise, naturally.