Pay a small fee if someone vacates a 3 bed council home.

satguy

Before you all start shouting ...

There are lots of 3 bed council homes, but there are lots of people on the waiting list looking for a 3 bed home.

What if an older couple with an empty nest are offered €5k, and a 1 bed apartment. Would this not free up homes.

Cheap 1 or 2 bed flats / apartments, could be built, with the hope the each apartment would free up a 3 bed council home.

corner of hells

satguy wrote: »

Before you all start shouting ...

There are lots of 3 bed council homes, but there are lots of people on the waiting list looking for a 3 bed home.

What if an older couple with an empty nest are offered €5k, and a 1 bed apartment. Would this not free up homes.

Cheap 1 or 2 bed flats / apartments, could be built, with the hope the each apartment would free up a 3 bed council home.

How about 100grand and the apartment, I'd go for that.
I do have a three bed for sale if your interested.

satguy

corner of hells wrote: »

How about 100grand and the apartment, I'd go for that.
I do have a three bed for sale if your interested.

just €5k, and only €5k.

Yurt2

A crapload of one bed apartment medium/high rises need to be constructed in Dublin. The amount of people living in houseshares well into their 30s and beyond in the capital is off the charts. While sharing with Mary from Longford, Diego from Brazil and some weird Japanese fella might sound exotic and charming like a sitcom - the novelty wears off when the lad Mary brought home from Dicey's scuttered the shared upstais toilet and you can hear the Japanese lad crying in his room every night.*

*This set of circumstances never happened to me when I used to houseshare, but you get the picture.

Del2005

If its a council house it should be needs based and reviewed on a regular basis. If you want to pay a token rent then you have to put up with regular reviews and moving if the property is no longer suitable. Of course that'll never happen instead they will sell the 3 bed for next to nothing and not build anything to replace it.

Gatling

Shouldn't need to have to pay them anything ,your housed according to your need you might need 3 /4 when they are popping out kids left right and centre ,
Housing needs should be regularly reviewed and if a single person in a 3/4 bed property they should be then transferred to a single bed property as humanly possible ,and free up houses for families in need ,

Thoie

Most people in that situation don't need actual cash to change, though help with moving would probably be appreciated.

The main thing is for their new one/two bed place to be in a similar area, and that's where the trouble starts. Moving far away from their current location takes them away from the communities and relationships they've built up in an area - particularly important for when one of them dies. Most don't want to have to change GP/pharmacy etc. If someone's main activity after retirement is gardening, then an apartment may not be suitable. Some older couples start sleeping in separate rooms as their sleep patterns change as they age, or for other health reasons.

If they could get an apartment, perhaps with a little outdoor space, close to their existing location, many would take it - I know one couple who did. The lack of stairs, and not having to manage things like gutters, cleaning a larger area, etc, worked for them. They were also lucky in that their new place allowed pets, so they didn't have to rehome their dog.

TLDR: This already happens, but would probably happen more frequently if there were suitable "downsizing" units near the aging population centres.

lawred2

satguy wrote: »

Before you all start shouting ...

There are lots of 3 bed council homes, but there are lots of people on the waiting list looking for a 3 bed home.

What if an older couple with an empty nest are offered €5k, and a 1 bed apartment. Would this not free up homes.

Cheap 1 or 2 bed flats / apartments, could be built, with the hope the each apartment would free up a 3 bed council home.

5k?

Are you on crack?

Do this couple own this 3 bed house?

Fanny Wank

Thoie wrote: »

The main thing is for their new one/two bed place to be in a similar area, and that's where the trouble starts. Moving far away from their current location takes them away from the communities and relationships they've built up in an area - particularly important for when one of them dies. Most don't want to have to change GP/pharmacy etc. If someone's main activity after retirement is gardening, then an apartment may not be suitable. Some older couples start sleeping in separate rooms as their sleep patterns change as they age, or for other health reasons.

Strangely these are the choices people paying fully for their own accommodation have to make all the time if rents/prices rise to levels they can't afford

10000maniacs

Correct me if I am wrong here, but originally council houses were dwellings provided by the council to RENT out to people who couldn't afford a roof over their head.
When did they suddenly become an effectively free house for life regardless of your circumstances?
And what's with the "right to buy" scheme?
If you are wondering where all of the council houses that taxpayers spent so much of their hard earned cash providing went, former council tenants bought them up at "I won the lotto" prices.
That's why there are no Social houses now. The FF government decided to make a quick buck off the taxpayers. Bertie & company became a dab hand at this trickery and eventually put the country into receivership.

James Brown

satguy wrote: »

Before you all start shouting ...

There are lots of 3 bed council homes, but there are lots of people on the waiting list looking for a 3 bed home.

What if an older couple with an empty nest are offered €5k, and a 1 bed apartment. Would this not free up homes.

Cheap 1 or 2 bed flats / apartments, could be built, with the hope the each apartment would free up a 3 bed council home.

If they don't meet the required need they should be moved. It's not for the tenant to decide, or shouldn't be. This is bad administration and management, don't bore us all, (not you anyone) with Margret Cash tales or other sh*te.
If you can afford rent on the market, out on your ear. If the kids move out and you've spare rooms, get downsized. Take rent from source, dole/salary.
Easy fixes really.
Hopefully the next government has a pair of balls, (no offence ML).

Thoie

Fanny **** wrote: »

Strangely these are the choices people paying fully for their own accommodation have to make all the time if rents/prices rise to levels they can't afford

Yup - I'm one of them. Thankfully I'm still young enough (though definitely not "young") that I can "bounce back" from that kind of thing. It's more difficult for elderly people to do that.

In general right now, most elderly people are settled in accommodation one way or another - long term council tenants, or own their own houses with mortgages well paid off. Their expectation at this point is staying within their existing communities, and I'd encourage that.

The question of what will happen in 30+ years time when older people don't have that security is a big worry.

James Brown

Yurt! wrote: »

A crapload of one bed apartment medium/high rises need to be constructed in Dublin. The amount of people living in houseshares well into their 30s and beyond in the capital is off the charts. While sharing with Mary from Longford, Diego from Brazil and some weird Japanese fella might sound exotic and charming like a sitcom - the novelty wears off when the lad Mary brought home from Dicey's scuttered the shared upstais toilet and you can hear the Japanese lad crying in his room every night.*

*This set of circumstances never happened to me when I used to houseshare, but you get the picture.

Single people, especially lads always get a rough go of it. There has always been a shortage of one bedroom places.

Yurt2

Bowie wrote: »

Single people, especially lads always get a rough go of it. There has always been a shortage of one bedroom places.

The day I moved in with my partner to leave the houseshare life behind for good was one of the happiest days of my life.

Some of the oddballs I lived with over the years, I don't know how I did it. Jerome, with your jar of toenail clippings and sh*te hip-hop music, you are not forgiven for what you put me through.*

*This one is true to life

L1011

satguy wrote: »

just €5k, and only €5k.

Nobody at all would go for that. Cost of moving would easily eat the lot. You'd need to be looking at 20k+ and a blind eye turned to CAT limits if it was handed down to kids immediately.


The Iveagh Trust has managed to encourage a respectable number of larger apartments/houses to be returned to the council by offering proper sheltered elderly units; own door, full kitchen etc but a warden on-site and easy access to doctors, laundry services and other things to make it easier to stay living independent.

satguy

lawred2 wrote: »

5k?

Are you on crack?

Do this couple own this 3 bed house?

If they lived in that house for 20, they might as well own it,, they have tenure, even a judge could not move them out.

Thoie

10000maniacs wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong here, but originally council houses were dwellings provided by the council to RENT out to people who couldn't afford a roof over their head.
When did they suddenly become an effectively free house for life regardless of your circumstances?
And what's with the "right to buy" scheme?
If you are wondering where all of the council houses that taxpayers spent so much of their hard earned cash providing went, former council tenants bought them up at "I won the lotto" prices.
That's why there are no Social houses now. The FF government decided to make a quick buck off the taxpayers. Bertie & company became a dab hand at this trickery and eventually put the country into receivership.

The right to buy scheme was ridiculous, and is what has left us in the hole we're in now to a large extent. However social/council housing is still rented. The amount of rent paid is dependent on the household income - they're not free.

I think the "free" misapprehension comes about from the fact that, for example, a single parent on social welfare pays such a relatively low rent compared to the cost of renting privately that people think of them as practically free. Anyone earning less than €35k a year may meet the criteria to apply for social housing (see DCC website for an example of criteria, and waiting lists).

Good evening, Mr. Deeter.

I have a 3 bedroom home through a housing agency and am looking to downsize. The agency don't have anything suitable and have referred me back to the council who wont entertain it. I have had 2 TD's working on my behalf also and they cannot believe the lack of joined up thinking ie house a family in a 3 bed and downsize to assist this lady. Absolute madness with a severe housing crisis happening.

10000maniacs

Thoie wrote: »

The right to buy scheme was ridiculous, and is what has left us in the hole we're in now to a large extent. However social/council housing is still rented. The amount of rent paid is dependent on the household income - they're not free.

I think the "free" misapprehension comes about from the fact that, for example, a single parent on social welfare pays such a relatively low rent compared to the cost of renting privately that people think of them as practically free. Anyone earning less than €35k a year may meet the criteria to apply for social housing (see DCC website for an example of criteria, and waiting lists).

The rent is calculated at 16% of the principal earner’s weekly assessable
income which exceeds €35. After the rent of the principal earner is
assessed, the same calculation will be applied to the incomes of
subsidiary earners (i.e. other occupants) in the household, but in
this case, the rent calculation for each subsidiary earner will be
capped at €18 per person.

So in other words jack $hit. Happy days all around.

Yurt2

Thoie wrote: »

The right to buy scheme was ridiculous, and is what has left us in the hole we're in now to a large extent. However social/council housing is still rented. The amount of rent paid is dependent on the household income - they're not free.

I think the "free" misapprehension comes about from the fact that, for example, a single parent on social welfare pays such a relatively low rent compared to the cost of renting privately that people think of them as practically free. Anyone earning less than €35k a year may meet the criteria to apply for social housing (see DCC website for an example of criteria, and waiting lists).

Right to buy was a cornerstone policy of Thatcher. It was a feature in Ireland though probably a decade and a half before hand if I'm correct. Makes the beneficiaries of it feel very wealthy briefly, but is extremely inequitable and creates more problems down the tracks.

James Brown

Yurt! wrote: »

The day I moved in with my partner to leave the houseshare life behind for good was one of the happiest days of my life.

Some of the oddballs I lived with over the years, I don't know how I did it. Jerome, with your jar of toenail clippings and sh*te hip-hop music, you are not forgiven for what you put me through.*

*This one is true to life

I once lived with 4 girls. It was an experience. Still in touch with a few of them.
Preferred living on my own when single. Pal of mine is back living with his folks. He's working. Others I know spend a lot of time driving be it to work or to visit the family in Dublin.

Sleeper12

satguy wrote:

What if an older couple with an empty nest are offered €5k, and a 1 bed apartment. Would this not free up homes.

Why not introduce a bedroom tax for council homes? The occupant pays a tax on each bedroom not in use. A couple in a council house might be happy to downsize if they are paying 5k per year extra due to the two empty bedrooms.

Thoie

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Why not introduce a bedroom tax for council homes? The occupant pays a tax on each bedroom not in use. A couple in a council house might be happy to downsize if they are paying 5k per year extra due to the two empty bedrooms.

That may be reasonable if people are just refusing to downsize, but as you can see from Galwaygirlz82 post, there are people out there who want to downsize, but can't. it would seem unfair, when she's trying to free up a house, to slap an extra tax on her because a smaller alternative isn't available.

suicide_circus

i asked this before but got no satisfactory answer;

people renting in the private sector often have to live in houseshares, I did in my time.

why is there no such thing as a houseshare when it comes to social housing?

Yurt2

Deleted User wrote: »

Good evening, Mr. Deeter.

Lol, I was thinking the same when I read the post!

L1011

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Why not introduce a bedroom tax for council homes? The occupant pays a tax on each bedroom not in use. A couple in a council house might be happy to downsize if they are paying 5k per year extra due to the two empty bedrooms.

Done in the UK. Utter disaster.

If you try wrap exclusions in for all the reasons it was a disaster it becomes so open that the system is just an admin cost with no savings

Thoie

suicide_circus wrote: »

i asked this before but got no satisfactory answer;

people renting in the private sector often have to live in houseshares, I did in my time.

why is there no such thing as a houseshare when it comes to social housing?

I proposed the same thing the other night (in the pub, so not exactly the place for sensible, reasoned discussion, unlike this delightful forum where everyone is sane and level headed).

One person put forward the vague "insurance" as a potential reason, yet we all managed to house share privately without insurance ever being mentioned. Someone else said maybe if the council put you in a house share with others, and one of them stabbed you or something, the council could be sued. I've never heard of a landlord being sued because of something one tenant did to another, but who knows?

Eric Cartman

suicide_circus wrote: »

i asked this before but got no satisfactory answer;

people renting in the private sector often have to live in houseshares, I did in my time.

why is there no such thing as a houseshare when it comes to social housing?

Coukd you imagine throwing some young woman in a house with 2 lads with substance abuse problems. Im all for giving people in social housing the bare minimum but even I can see how this only ends in tears and a massove increase in violent crime, theft and substance abuse.

10000maniacs

L1011 wrote: »

Done in the UK. Utter disaster.

It was only a disaster because if people get stuff for free all their lives, they are going to be the loudest protesters when suddenly they have to contribute something themselves.
Look what happened here with the Water protests. It wasn't the people doing their Monday to Friday 9-5 slog out on the streets protesting and blocking Lady Joan of Burton's car.

AulWan

The problem is there is no where for elderly council tenants to downsize too.

Instead of building 100,000 new 3 beds, they should be building a mix, including 1/2 bed units.

suicide_circus

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Coukd you imagine throwing some young woman in a house with 2 lads with substance abuse problems. Im all for giving people in social housing the bare minimum but even I can see how this only ends in tears and a massove increase in violent crime, theft and substance abuse.

obviously you dont put head the balls in with a young mother but it must be possible, we are after all in a major crisis as we are told on a daily basis.

AulWan

or

Bowie wrote: »

If they don't meet the required need they should be moved. It's not for the tenant to decide, or shouldn't be. This is bad administration and management, don't bore us all, (not you anyone) with Margret Cash tales or other sh*te.
If you can afford rent on the market, out on your ear. If the kids move out and you've spare rooms, get downsized. Take rent from source, dole/salary.
Easy fixes really.
Hopefully the next government has a pair of balls, (no offence ML).

This makes no sense. People would just give up work and staying on benefits, or work for undeclared cash, rather then lose the council house. You're removing any incentive for them to work, if bringing home anything over minimum wage would result in them being evicted.

Paulzx

L1011 wrote: »

The Iveagh Trust has managed to encourage a respectable number of larger apartments/houses to be returned to the council by offering proper sheltered elderly units; own door, full kitchen etc but a warden on-site and easy access to doctors, laundry services and other things to make it easier to stay living independent.

This is the ideal option for older people. DCC already operate loads of these and have built great little communites with DCC staff also responsible for looking in on residents and being a point of contact.

As mentioned already the Iveagh Trust have plenty of them as well.

Spanish Eyes

There is nowhere for downsizers to go really. That is the problem. And yes I know many full owners whether council or private could go buy an apartment but the problem is, as mentioned above, will they be ok there? At the third or fourth quarter of life, all people want (and I know this from my late mother), is to be within her community and be close to everything as before. Older people buying an apartment are usually in the same community as the young wans, you know, noise and parties and so on which is fine for that cohort. Not so good for the ahem, the more mature.

But my mother was adamant that she wanted to stay in her own home, in a quiet road where she knew everyone and they all looked out for each other. It is a conundrum.

They seem to be able to build rabbit hutches for transients but nothing at all for downsizers in the right place for them.

I do realise that there are constraints on land, planning and so on, but everything these days seems to be fielded towards those with families or singletons who are happy to house share, or take on co living.

The amount of properties that might be freed up would help. But remember, not everyone will move either. Some might given a decent incentive, but sometimes being comfortable in your home with nice neighbours is worth its weight in gold too no matter what is offered.

Might be slightly different story for Council tenants, but they still need to be within their community also. Scratch head here.

nthclare

Yeah let's all look forward to being tossed out of our homes and into a sh11ty one bedroom apartment.
And compensated 5% of the cost of our homes and a free shoe box.

Gone will be peoples dreams of living peacefully and enjoying their back garden and independent living.
For the rest of their time.

Great suggestion OP undermine the elderly and destroy their integrity.

Jebus wept

Sleeper12

10000maniacs wrote:

It was only a disaster because if people get stuff for free all their lives, they are going to be the loudest protesters when suddenly they have to contribute something themselves. Look what happened here with the Water protests. It wasn't the people doing their Monday to Friday 9-5 slog out on the streets protesting and blocking Lady Joan of Burton's car.

I'm in favour of paying for metered water but it's very unfair to suggest that only unemployment people protested. One march in Dublin had over 100,000 attend. Almost half the population refused to pay. FG fecked up the introduction of paying for water. The sorry expensive mess lies at their feet. You can't rewrite history now claiming that unemployed people beat FG into submission. It was people from all walks of life.

yabadabado

L1011 wrote: »

Nobody at all would go for that. Cost of moving would easily eat the lot. You'd need to be looking at 20k+ and a blind eye turned to CAT limits if it was handed down to kids immediately.


The Iveagh Trust has managed to encourage a respectable number of larger apartments/houses to be returned to the council by offering proper sheltered elderly units; own door, full kitchen etc but a warden on-site and easy access to doctors, laundry services and other things to make it easier to stay living independent.

The idea of elderly people moving to a type of elderly community should be something that's seriously looked at.They keep their independence, one/two bedroom apartment ,living close to similar people and the security of someone keeping a regular eye on them and access to services and activities.

I'm sure there are lots of elderly people who would prefer that than being isolated in a home that's too big for their needs and becoming too expensive to maintain.

Move from a basically empty 4 bedroom home to a one bedroom apartment that's easy to maintain but keeping you in the locality should be something that's given serious thought.No one should or could be forced out of their home but have it as an option.


It's a pity there just isnt any of this type of housing stock readily available.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Coukd you imagine throwing some young woman in a house with 2 lads with substance abuse problems. Im all for giving people in social housing the bare minimum but even I can see how this only ends in tears and a massove increase in violent crime, theft and substance abuse.

How would anyone hold down a job with substance abuse problems? You're ignoring or forgetting the tax payer. The low income, (define low by not enough to manage a private rental) needs a hand.

aslanroars

I work in the council involved in houses.many people have offered to downsize .specialy older people and dublin city council .lot of the time cant take their offers.but they also buy houses and for discount .put the owners in senior citizens apartment s.

AulWan

Bowie wrote: »

How would anyone hold down a job with substance abuse problems? You're ignoring or forgetting the tax payer. The low income, (define low by not enough to manage a private rental) needs a hand.

Plenty of high-earning professionals with substantial cocaine and alcohol habits manage to hold down jobs. Including at least one judge I know personally.

Are you seriously that niave?

James Brown

AulWan wrote: »

Plenty of high-earning professionals with substantial cocaine and alcohol habits manage to hold down jobs. Including at least one judge I know personally.

Are you seriously that niave?

Pointing out it's not all junkies.
I know who bank rolls the shootings and beatings in the poorer suburbs thanks.

Ubbquittious

Yurt! wrote: »

A crapload of one bed apartment medium/high rises need to be constructed in Dublin. The amount of people living in houseshares well into their 30s and beyond in the capital is off the charts. While sharing with Mary from Longford, Diego from Brazil and some weird Japanese fella might sound exotic and charming like a sitcom - the novelty wears off when the lad Mary brought home from Dicey's scuttered the shared upstais toilet and you can hear the Japanese lad crying in his room every night.*

*This set of circumstances never happened to me when I used to houseshare, but you get the picture.

Was the Japanese lad training to become a Kamikaze pilot?

Spanish Eyes

How did this thread morph into cocaine and Kamikaze stuff?

Me poor head!

corner of hells

yabadabado wrote: »

The idea of elderly people moving to a type of elderly community should be something that's seriously looked at.They keep their independence, one/two bedroom apartment ,living close to similar people and the security of someone keeping a regular eye on them and access to services and activities.

I'm sure there are lots of elderly people who would prefer that than being isolated in a home that's too big for their needs and becoming too expensive to maintain.

Move from a basically empty 4 bedroom home to a one bedroom apartment that's easy to maintain but keeping you in the locality should be something that's given serious thought.No one should or could be forced out of their home but have it as an option.


It's a pity there just isnt any of this type of housing stock readily available.

That idea is in existence already.
My own in laws sold their house back to DCC and were housed in a one bed bungalow in a senior citizens complex.

10000maniacs

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm in favour of paying for metered water but it's very unfair to suggest that only unemployment people protested. One march in Dublin had over 100,000 attend. Almost half the population refused to pay. FG fecked up the introduction of paying for water. The sorry expensive mess lies at their feet. You can't rewrite history now claiming that unemployed people beat FG into submission. It was people from all walks of life.

The Property tax was of similar scale, but it was introduced without incident. I wonder why that was?
Was it because all the people it would affect were at work and didn't have enough time or energy to go out protesting after their 40 hour slog running to stand still to earn enough money to pay their mortgage?

Ubbquittious

10000maniacs wrote: »

The Property tax was of similar scale, but it was introduced without incident. I wonder why that was?
Was it because all the people it would affect were at work and didn't have enough time or energy to go out protesting after their 40 hour slog running to stand still to earn enough money to pay their mortgage?

There were protests and I attended one. It was at the weekend and i believe quite a few of them were organised at weekends

satguy

nthclare wrote: »

Yeah let's all look forward to being tossed out of our homes and into a sh11ty one bedroom apartment.
And compensated 5% of the cost of our homes and a free shoe box.

Gone will be peoples dreams of living peacefully and enjoying their back garden and independent living.
For the rest of their time.

Great suggestion OP undermine the elderly and destroy their integrity.

Jebus wept

Nobody pushed,, you would need to volunteer.

Long_Wave

There are many oaps in 3 bedroom council houses who's kids flew the nest years ago and the idea of moving them into a one bedroom flat does have merit but it will never happen because oaps are untouchable, imagine all the tears you'd hear from these oaps on the Joe duffy for example.

AulWan

aslanroars wrote: »

I work in the council involved in houses.many people have offered to downsize .specialy older people and dublin city council .lot of the time cant take their offers.but they also buy houses and for discount .put the owners in senior citizens apartment s.

Several two bedroom bungalows in my estate have been bought by the council, refurbished including ramps for wheelchair accessibility and are now allocated as "senior housing".

So this does happen, but they need to massively expand on this programme and build as many if not more 1/2 bed units then 3 bed, if they actually want to incentivise people to downsize.

Probably controversially, I was actually thinking they shouldn't build any more 3 bed units at all. The max they should be obliged to provide is a two bed.

As much as i do support social housing, I do believe there is a responsibility on those on the waiting list not to keep having more and more children.

So if you have two children already (who can share) either don't have any more and accept that you will be living in a small home, with only one bedroom for the children, or if you want a larger family, you need to look at financing a bigger home with more bedrooms for your expanding family yourself - or wait for a transfer to older stock as it becomes available.

Optimalprimerib

satguy wrote: »

Before you all start shouting ...

There are lots of 3 bed council homes, but there are lots of people on the waiting list looking for a 3 bed home.

What if an older couple with an empty nest are offered €5k, and a 1 bed apartment. Would this not free up homes.

Cheap 1 or 2 bed flats / apartments, could be built, with the hope the each apartment would free up a 3 bed council home.

If it is already a council home, it is not a bad idea and if the older couple volunteered to do it