Dublin's boundaries

Big Gerry

Are Dublins boundaries fixed ?


Like where does one suburb end and another one begins.


I seen an ad for a house for sale in an estate I use to live in in Finglas.


But the ad for the house says its in Glasnevin.


I had to laugh since when did parts of Finglas become parts of Glasnevin.

wench

Big Gerry wrote: »

Are Dublins boundaries fixed ?

Not even slightly

Like where does one suburb end and another one begins.

Wherever suits the Estate Agent

I had to laugh since when did parts of Finglas become parts of Glasnevin.

The boundaries of Finglas are some of the most flexible in the city

dubrov

Big Gerry wrote:

I had to laugh since when did parts of Finglas become parts of Glasnevin.

Glasnevin North borders Finglas.

Samuel T. Cogley

Kilbarrack now is my house and the Dart station everywhere else is Raheny it seems :pac:

delta_bravo

The administrative boundaries in terms of counties are fixed (DCC, DLR, SDCC, Fingal) but in terms of what a person calls an area is very much who you are talking to

RobbingBandit

Royal Canal Park on opposite side of Tolka Valley Park from me in Finglas South Dublin 11 is apparently accepted as Dublin 15.

anything that adds 15 grand or more to your real estate value I suppose. It can be confusing and conniving sometimes.

retalivity

Terenure appears to stretch from rathgar to the m50, and from the naas road southwards

odyssey06

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Royal Canal Park on opposite side of Tolka Valley Park from me in Finglas South Dublin 11 is apparently accepted as Dublin 15.

That doesn't sound right... I would have thought the eircode postcode would be either D11 or D15 and would be pretty obvious if wrong???

I know the parish or district names are... nebulous.

JupiterKid

The administrative boundaries of Dublin city, Fingal, South Dublin, Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown are fixed and statutory, but....

Address "stretching" is par for the couse when it comes to estate agents and selling houses and apartments, has been for decades, for instance:

Half of Blanchardstown seems to be labelled as "Castleknock" (the proper boundary betwen the two suburbs is the Royal Canal and railway line);

Much of Stillorgan (a very good address in itself) is considered as "Blackrock";

Ballybrack transforms into Killiney; Ballyboden changes to Rathfarnham;

Kimmage becomes Terenure, Killester becomes Clontarf;

As per your OP, East Finglas magically becomes Glasnevin;

Darndale becomes Coolock or even better, Malahide Road;

and so on and so on. Boundaries between suburbs can be very arbitrary, the only real certain boundaries in this respect are the postal districts - Dublin 7, Dublin 14, Dublin 9 etc.

L1011

If somewhere has a cardinal direction added to its name; its not there. Lucan South, Glasnevin North etc.

Also, I've seen "Glasnevin" be used as far south as Stoneybatter (!); it has to be the most stretched area name.

bikeman1

The "morphing" areas that are well known to me are:

Raheny (instead of Edenmore, Kilbarrack)
Clontarf (instead of Killester)
Sutton (instead of Bayside, Baldoyle)
Malahide (instead of Portmarnock, Kinsealy or Swords)
Glasnevin (instead of Finglas or Ballymun)
Sandymount (instead of Irishtown or Ringsend)
Terenure (instead of half D6W!)
Dundrum (instead of Ballinteer)
Palmerstown (instead of Clondalkin)

And I'm sure there are more and more. I never understood why people do that, the house is where it is and you can't change it. I rented in one of the places and lived about 100 m from the post office, yet people still referred to it as the "posher" place!!

Joe_ Public

Vaguely recall when they introduced the 6W postcode as was renting around terenure/kimmage at the time. Neighbours were up in arms because they were going to be reclassified as D24 or somewhere up in the 20s anyway so 6W was agreed as some sort of compromise. The passions it inspired were quite the eyeopener for this country blow-in at the time.

BeerNut

One of the most blatant examples of this I've seen is the new Mount Argus Apartments on Lower Kimmage Road. It says on the website here it's in Dublin 6, and that's even more prominent on the signage at the location. But it is quite some distance away from being in Dublin 6, and actually closer to Dublin 12.

Decuc500

Kilbarrack is a weird one. The Kilbarrack fire station is about as far from Kilbarrack as you could possibly get. Nearer to Donaghmede, Raheny or Coolock.

odyssey06

Decuc500 wrote: »

Kilbarrack is a weird one. The Kilbarrack fire station is about as far from Kilbarrack as you could possibly get. Nearer to Donaghmede, Raheny or Coolock.

Is it Kilbarrack or Kilbarrack Road?

Clontarf Road DART station is a lot closer to the bulk of Fairview, Marino, East Wall than most of Clontarf

JupiterKid

Estayte agents really try on some brazen porkies with the old address stretching - I once saw a house in Corduff, a 1970s local authority built housing estate North of Blanchardstown village, labelled as being "Castleknock."

As for the suburb of Sandyford, what is now considered the centre of Sandyford where the offices and Luas line are is actually over 2km from the actual village of Sandyford...

neris

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is it Kilbarrack or Kilbarrack Road?

Clontarf Road DART station is a lot closer to the bulk of Fairview, Marino, East Wall than most of Clontarf

Its Kilbarrack Road but the fire brigade refer to it as Kilbarrack.

I think alot of it goes back to centuries when places were probably on small little hamlets of a few residents with acres of fields between the next hamlet/town/village

salmocab

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Vaguely recall when they introduced the 6W postcode as was renting around terenure/kimmage at the time. Neighbours were up in arms because they were going to be reclassified as D24 or somewhere up in the 20s anyway so 6W was agreed as some sort of compromise. The passions it inspired were quite the eyeopener for this country blow-in at the time.

It was D12, parts of Greenhills were sold as 6w when they were completely surrounded by D12.

It depends on whether your buying or selling where you claim it is I suppose but a mate of mine has always said Rathfarnham must be the biggest suburb on the planet

Dial Hard

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Vaguely recall when they introduced the 6W postcode as was renting around terenure/kimmage at the time. Neighbours were up in arms because they were going to be reclassified as D24 or somewhere up in the 20s anyway so 6W was agreed as some sort of compromise. The passions it inspired were quite the eyeopener for this country blow-in at the time.

I’m from a part of D12 where literally the other side of the road is 6W. The semantic gymnastics some people employ to convince themselves they live in Terenure is genuinely hilarious at times.

wench

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is it Kilbarrack or Kilbarrack Road?

Clontarf Road DART station is a lot closer to the bulk of Fairview, Marino, East Wall than most of Clontarf

Always just Kilbarrack Station


https://twitter.com/DfbKilbarrack/status/962683332986376192/photo/1

Allinall

Phoenix Park is in Dublin 8, despite being on the northside.

It was decreed that the President couldn't lower themselves to have an "odd" postcode.

Ger Roe

JupiterKid wrote: »

Estayte agents really try on some brazen porkies with the old address stretching - I once saw a house in Corduff, a 1970s local authority built housing estate North of Blanchardstown village, labelled as being "Castleknock."

As for the suburb of Sandyford, what is now considered the centre of Sandyford where the offices and Luas line are is actually over 2km from the actual village of Sandyford...

That's not the worst of it.... the Stillorgan and Sandyford Luas stops are basically two ends of the same platform and nowhere near either village.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Dial Hard wrote: »

I’m from a part of D12 where literally the other side of the road is 6W. The semantic gymnastics some people employ to convince themselves they live in Terenure is genuinely hilarious at times.

Someone I know bought a house that backs onto Crumlin hospital. It’s on the Drimnagh Road. He says he lives in Walkinstown, even though it’s Drimnagh. And what is even wrong with that? He has a nice house that many people would love to have. He’s ridiculous.

L1011

Allinall wrote: »

Phoenix Park is in Dublin 8, despite being on the northside.

It was decreed that the President couldn't lower themselves to have an "odd" postcode.

Except the Dublin postcodes predate the Presidency.

Ger Roe

JupiterKid wrote: »

Estayte agents really try on some brazen porkies with the old address stretching - I once saw a house in Corduff, a 1970s local authority built housing estate North of Blanchardstown village, labelled as being "Castleknock."

As for the suburb of Sandyford, what is now considered the centre of Sandyford where the offices and Luas line are is actually over 2km from the actual village of Sandyford...

That's not the worst of it.... the Stillorgan and Sandyford Luas stops are basically two ends of the same platform and nowhere near either village.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Royal Canal Park on opposite side of Tolka Valley Park from me in Finglas South Dublin 11 is apparently accepted as Dublin 15.

anything that adds 15 grand or more to your real estate value I suppose. It can be confusing and conniving sometimes.

There’s a good distance between Finglas and Royal Canal Park. It’s closer to Cabra than Finglas so it should be D7 before D11.

deconduo

L1011 wrote: »

Except the Dublin postcodes predate the Presidency.

Yep, the actual reason is the sorting office in James’s Street is closer to the Áras than the Phibsboro sorting office. So it made sense to have it in Dublin 8 instead.

Skylinehead

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

There’s a good distance between Finglas and Royal Canal Park. It’s closer to Cabra than Finglas so it should be D7 before D11.

I wouldn't call "literally across Tolka Park" a good distance!

w/s/p/c/

I am originally from Dublin 7, just off Manor St, family still live there.

As it's the "cool" place to live now, I do laugh at some of the estate agent ads for houses on streets which have never been classed as Stoneybatter (which realistically is just a small stretch of road from Manor St to Blackhall Place). Have seen houses off the Infirmary Road next to the Phoenix Park classed as Stoneybatter, as houses off the NCR too. Seems to stretch now from the Liffey as far as the NCR and as wide from Grangegorman to the Park.

No such thing as boundaries anymore when it comes to the estate agents!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Skylinehead wrote: »

I wouldn't call "literally across Tolka Park" a good distance!

Do you know RCP? I used to live there. We never went to Finglas for anything as other places were closer. If it was our local suburb, wouldn’t we have availed of the ample amenities there? To walk to the part of Finglas “literally across Tolka Park” was a decent walk and that was the lower reaches of Finglas. RCP abuts Cabra. Is RCP closer to Finglas than the suburb it is literally contiguous with? When pondering RCP’s D15 postcode (as we were very removed from much of D15), I always wondered why it wasn’t D7. D11 didn’t enter my mind. Am I just a big snob or did it just feel completely separate from Finglas?

Skylinehead

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Do you know RCP? I used to live there. We never went to Finglas for anything as other places were closer. If it was our local suburb, wouldn’t we have availed of the ample amenities there? To walk to the part of Finglas “literally across Tolka Park” was a decent walk and that was the lower reaches of Finglas. RCP abuts Cabra. Is RCP closer to Finglas than the suburb it is literally contiguous with? When pondering RCP’s D15 postcode (as we were very removed from much of D15), I always wondered why it wasn’t D7. D11 didn’t enter my mind. Am I just a big snob or did it just feel completely separate from Finglas?

I used to live on the other end of Ballyboggan Road to Royal Canal Park. I'm not saying it's part of Finglas, not at all, but they're pretty much touching each other.

The shop argument is right, as there's literally nothing in Finglas West.

Cienciano

BeerNut wrote: »

One of the most blatant examples of this I've seen is the new Mount Argus Apartments on Lower Kimmage Road. It says on the website here it's in Dublin 6, and that's even more prominent on the signage at the location. But it is quite some distance away from being in Dublin 6, and actually closer to Dublin 12.

Well, that's definitely not D6, it's 6W on the 12 side. But look like 6w.

But that estate agent speak is one thing that pisses me off. "close to harolds cross which is close to the canal" or "close to the park for meditation". Fúck off

Victor

Big Gerry wrote: »

Are Dublins boundaries fixed ?

Townlands, civil parishes, baronys and council areas, yes. "Areas" and religious parishes "no".

I seen an ad for a house for sale in an estate I use to live in in Finglas.

But the ad for the house says its in Glasnevin.

I had to laugh since when did parts of Finglas become parts of Glasnevin.

Glasnevin townland https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5481376#map=13/53.3799/-6.2706
Glasnevin civil parish https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5504172#map=13/53.3799/-6.2706
Finglas Civil Parish https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5469307#map=13/53.3799/-6.2706

Note that Glasnevin Avenue was originally Ballymun Avenue.

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Royal Canal Park on opposite side of Tolka Valley Park from me in Finglas South Dublin 11 is apparently accepted as Dublin 15.

anything that adds 15 grand or more to your real estate value I suppose. It can be confusing and conniving sometimes.

While close enough as the crow flies, they are a fair walk apart. https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.3783/-6.3123

RCP is the confluence of Dublin 7 (south of the canal only), 11 and 15. I can only assume that the Dublin 15 delivery office had the capacity to take on the area. The boundary has to go somewhere.

retalivity wrote: »

Terenure appears to stretch from rathgar to the m50, and from the naas road southwards

Part of the problem is that the Terenure electoral divisions stretch as far as the Walkinstown Roundabout.

Terenure Road West was originally Kimmage Road (East). http://bit.ly/2Stzlyd

Victor

JupiterKid wrote: »

Half of Blanchardstown seems to be labelled as "Castleknock" (the proper boundary betwen the two suburbs is the Royal Canal and railway line);

JupiterKid wrote: »

Estayte agents really try on some brazen porkies with the old address stretching - I once saw a house in Corduff, a 1970s local authority built housing estate North of Blanchardstown village, labelled as being "Castleknock."

Castleknock barony https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5489016#map=12/53.3997/-6.3746
Castleknock civil parish https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5469116#map=12/53.3997/-6.3746
Castleknock townland https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5378228#map=12/53.3997/-6.3745

JupiterKid wrote: »

Much of Stillorgan (a very good address in itself) is considered as "Blackrock";

Blackrock delivery office for post.

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ballyboden changes to Rathfarnham;

Rathfarnham Civil Parish https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2772703

JupiterKid wrote: »

Killester becomes Clontarf;

odyssey06 wrote: »

Clontarf Road DART station is a lot closer to the bulk of Fairview, Marino, East Wall than most of Clontarf

The two Clontarf townlands are not where one would expect.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5471880#map=14/53.3675/-6.2113
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5541475#map=14/53.3675/-6.2113

JupiterKid wrote: »

the only real certain boundaries in this respect are the postal districts - Dublin 7, Dublin 14, Dublin 9 etc.

And even those will be pushed.

Victor

Decuc500 wrote: »

Kilbarrack is a weird one. The Kilbarrack fire station is about as far from Kilbarrack as you could possibly get. Nearer to Donaghmede, Raheny or Coolock.

Note that Donaghmede is named for Donaghmede House - there was never a place called Donaghmede until the mid-20th century.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is it Kilbarrack or Kilbarrack Road?

Kilbarrack fire station and Kilbarrack train station are both in Kilbarrack Civil Parish and Kilbarrack Upper townland.

Kilbarrack Civil Parish https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5451679#map=14/53.3882/-6.1488
Kilbarrack Upper townland https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5361644#map=14/53.3882/-6.1488
Kilbarrack Lower townland https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5361860#map=14/53.3882/-6.1488

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Someone I know bought a house that backs onto Crumlin hospital. It’s on the Drimnagh Road. He says he lives in Walkinstown, even though it’s Drimnagh. And what is even wrong with that? He has a nice house that many people would love to have. He’s ridiculous.

Walkinstown (originally Wilkinstown). https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3670425#map=15/53.3206/-6.3318

salmocab wrote: »

It was D12, parts of Greenhills were sold as 6w when they were completely surrounded by D12.

The houses and estates off Wellington Road are D6W, but those off Limekiln Road are 12. I think a big issue in the area was the failure of the Ordnance Survey to include the name "Perrystown" on city maps.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Do you know RCP? I used to live there. We never went to Finglas for anything as other places were closer. If it was our local suburb, wouldn’t we have availed of the ample amenities there? To walk to the part of Finglas “literally across Tolka Park” was a decent walk and that was the lower reaches of Finglas. RCP abuts Cabra. Is RCP closer to Finglas than the suburb it is literally contiguous with? When pondering RCP’s D15 postcode (as we were very removed from much of D15), I always wondered why it wasn’t D7. D11 didn’t enter my mind. Am I just a big snob or did it just feel completely separate from Finglas?

The old delivery office in Phibsborough was very small an may not have had the capacity to deal with a new area.

ittakestwo

deconduo wrote: »

Yep, the actual reason is the sorting office in James’s Street is closer to the Áras than the Phibsboro sorting office. So it made sense to have it in Dublin 8 instead.

I heard the reason was so Dublin Castle and Aras would be in the same post code. Apparently in the olden days there was 3 mail deliveries a day within a post code but only 2 if you were writing to someone outside your post code.

So Dublin Castle could wright a letter in the morning to Aras and they could get it that day and reply to it which would get back to Dublin Castle by the evening.

Peregrinus

ittakestwo wrote: »

I heard the reason was so Dublin Castle and Aras would be in the same post code. Apparently in the olden days there was 3 mail deliveries a day within a post code but only 2 if you were writing to someone outside your post code.

So Dublin Castle could wright a letter in the morning to Aras and they could get it that day and reply to it which would get back to Dublin Castle by the evening.

There are two flaws with this theory.

First, Dublin Castle, and indeed the Aras, had ceased to be centres of executive government long before the Dublin post codes were introduced (in 1961).

Secondly, Dublin Castle and the Aras are in separate postal districts anyway - the Castle is in Dublin 2; the Aras in Dublin 8.

Victor

Peregrinus wrote: »

(in 1961).

Ahem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_addresses_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Dublin

In Dublin city and its suburbs, a system of postal districts was introduced in 1917 by the Royal Mail with the prefix "D", and retained after Ireland became an independent country, without the prefix. However the use of district numbers by the public did not begin until 1961

Of course, James Street would have been the delivery office for the Phoenix Park for some time before that - it seems it opened in 1892.

Hodors Appletart

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Royal Canal Park on opposite side of Tolka Valley Park from me in Finglas South Dublin 11 is apparently accepted as Dublin 15.

anything that adds 15 grand or more to your real estate value I suppose. It can be confusing and conniving sometimes.

the river is more of a natural boundary than a canal though, and it is south of the Tolka in fairness.

MarkY91

BeerNut wrote: »

One of the most blatant examples of this I've seen is the new Mount Argus Apartments on Lower Kimmage Road. It says on the website here it's in Dublin 6, and that's even more prominent on the signage at the location. But it is quite some distance away from being in Dublin 6, and actually closer to Dublin 12.

I was just about to post about these apartments. I was in shock when I saw the signage labeling it D6 lol.

Hodors Appletart

just to further the conversation on RCP/Finglas/D7

That junction just at the new bridge seems to be a meeting point of 3 electoral constituencies, but that's an aside.

I live on the Rathoath Rd close to Dunsink lane, and more and more we are using RCP/Ashtown as our local amenities. my child went to creche and goes to school up there (the area from the supervalu all the way down the river road to the new Aldi and the apartments going up now) it's a nice area unto itself really, and really contained by the canal/railway on one side and the river on the other. There are a few names for the place, and they are all contiguous and blend into each other. Rathbourne, Pelletstown, RCP, Ashtown, probably a few more (the school is called Pelletstown ET). D15 makes sense from the point of view of how the area grew from west to east, starting up at the train station and creeping down the river road in the last 15 years or so, it makes sense for Rathbourne to be D15 really, and as the whole area is basically one conglomerate, it probably ultimately makes sense for it all to be D15.

JupiterKid

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

just to further the conversation on RCP/Finglas/D7

That junction just at the new bridge seems to be a meeting point of 3 electoral constituencies, but that's an aside.

I live on the Rathoath Rd close to Dunsink lane, and more and more we are using RCP/Ashtown as our local amenities. my child went to creche and goes to school up there (the area from the supervalu all the way down the river road to the new Aldi and the apartments going up now) it's a nice area unto itself really, and really contained by the canal/railway on one side and the river on the other. There are a few names for the place, and they are all contiguous and blend into each other. Rathbourne, Pelletstown, RCP, Ashtown, probably a few more (the school is called Pelletstown ET). D15 makes sense from the point of view of how the area grew from west to east, starting up at the train station and creeping down the river road in the last 15 years or so, it makes sense for Rathbourne to be D15 really, and as the whole area is basically one conglomerate, it probably ultimately makes sense for it all to be D15.

Except that Royal Canal Park, Rathborne and Ashtown are in Dublin City, whereas Dublin 15 is in Fingal. Dublin 7 takes in a very large area, from Capel Street and the Four Courts in the city Centre all the way out to the Halfway House in Ashtown, 6 km from the city Centre. I myself live in the Navan Road area. I have often wondered why they didn’t split it into 2 postal areas - like they did with Dublin 6W in the 1990s.

Dublin 7W, anyone?

I would see the Tolka River and Tolka Park as a good wide dividing line between Finglas and Cabra/RCP/Rathborne. The River Road when I was a child growing up in Castleknock was a narrow, windy country road that we took to get to the airport. I would consider all that area between the Royal Canal and Tolka as a new suburb - as was planned back in 1998 in the then Dublin City Development Plan.

Hodors Appletart

yeah you're right about it being a new suburb because the canal and rail line do properly cut them off from Cabra/Navan Rd

River Rd is still a winding country road by the way. I wish they'd re-open Dunsink Lane though.

I didn't know about that DC/FCC by the way and with that in mind I think D11 better suits

what is amazingly hilarious is that Scribblestown is D15

Peregrinus

The postal districts are not intended to define areas that are linked by common social or commercial features or even by rational geographic boundaries. What the areas included in a postal district have in common is that it is convenient that they all be served from a particular dilivery office. It's pure coincidence that some of the areas also tend to have common or dominant distinctive social characteristics. (D4, anyone?) This is most likely to happen with older, more central districts because they are smaller, because they were defined when delivery was largely done on foot. Newer districts are much larger, and are mostly defined by including areas linked by arterial roads.