Next Ff Leader

BENDYBINN

Surely Martin can no longer remain as leader of FF.........completely rejected at the polls on Saturday.
Who’s inline to takeover?

topper75

He'll hang on with fingernails and teeth for another day. Doesn't want to be the only FF leader in history never to be Taoiseach.

Muahahaha

FF TDs calling for a parliamentary party on Thursday. Lots of anger towards Michael Martin at the amount of seats lost, they are suffering a terrible election with a lot of candidates lost because they were transfer toxic

rob316

Absolute madness leaving him contest an election, he represents everything of the old guard that the electorate don't like. This god given right that FF should be in power.

Floppybits

FF need to take a hard look at themselves and not just their Leader. There is a serious lack of talent in the party, just take a look at their front bench and ask yourself, how many of them if you were to pick a government would be given ministries? Another problem they have is their performance in the last government as part of confidence and supply, they let FG get away with so much and they way that is perceived by the public is that they were in government with FG and supported FG.

They will need to sort themselves out very quickly as I reckon their will be an election in the summer.

topper75

Floppybits wrote: »

FF need to take a hard look at themselves and not just their Leader. There is a serious lack of talent in the party, just take a look at their front bench and ask yourself, how many of them if you were to pick a government would be given ministries? Another problem they have is their performance in the last government as part of confidence and supply, they let FG get away with so much and they way that is perceived by the public is that they were in government with FG and supported FG.

They will need to sort themselves out very quickly as I reckon their will be an election in the summer.

Yeah the plug should have been pulled with the hospital cost nonsense. They were all hiding behind the Brexit thing.

Fair charge but on the FF front bench talent accusation.
But it gets worse - look at SF :eek: Blatant lack of talent didn't stop a tidal wave of first pref.

JohnnyFlash

FF have a real crisis on their hands. They were always a catch-all party of populism. That era is over. SF have moved into the left wing position and it will be piss easy for FG in opposition to move back to their traditional centre right position where most of their core want them to be anyway. What’s FF’s angle?

Tough times for the soldiers of destiny in the long term.

jam_mac_jam

They are looking very old and tired these days. I don't think he's going for a while though

Floppybits

topper75 wrote: »

Yeah the plug should have been pulled with the hospital cost nonsense. They were all hiding behind the Brexit thing.

Fair charge but on the FF front bench talent accusation.
But it gets worse - look at SF :eek: Blatant lack of talent didn't stop a tidal wave of first pref.

Yep but if you look at both front benches you have to admit SF were the better performers than FF in the previous Dail and even during the run up to the election.

Now that could be down to FF being in confidence and supply agreement but you didn't see the FF Finance spokesperson attacking FG or vested interests like the insurance scandals like we did SF. Who is the spokesperson for housing in FF? they haven't been out like SF spokesperson. Sure people didn't even know that Sean Haughey was spokesperson for Foreign affairs and Trade, did he even speak at all in the last 4 or so years, who were the others spokespeople?

Floppybits

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

They are looking very old and tired these days. I don't think he's going for a while though

I thought the same for FG as well. They seemed to have run out of energy and ideas despite what they were saying.

_Brian

There is no party cohesion at all. In our electorate area a long standing FF candidate was asking for a No1 for himself and then advising to vote outside the party just to thwart one of his fellow FF candidates.

SF gave them a hard lesson on party brand and pushing transfers in the right direction.

loyatemu

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FF have a real crisis on their hands. They were always a catch-all party of populism. That era is over. SF have moved into the left wing position and it will be piss easy for FG in opposition to move back to their traditional centre right position where most of their core want them to be anyway. What’s FF’s angle?

Tough times for the soldiers of destiny in the long term.

good points - I was hoping for a FF canvasser to show up so I could ask them what the party actually stands for. In the past they were the default party of government; if you wanted a political career you joined FF.

That's not enough anymore and they have no identity beyond "those guys my parents voted for".

BENDYBINN

Not buying this tidal wave of support for SF............they were just in the right place at the right time.
The tv debates blew it for FF .......simply showed them to be a party stuck in the past.

blanch152

Floppybits wrote: »

Yep but if you look at both front benches you have to admit SF were the better performers than FF in the previous Dail and even during the run up to the election.

Now that could be down to FF being in confidence and supply agreement but you didn't see the FF Finance spokesperson attacking FG or vested interests like the insurance scandals like we did SF. Who is the spokesperson for housing in FF? they haven't been out like SF spokesperson. Sure people didn't even know that Sean Haughey was spokesperson for Foreign affairs and Trade, did he even speak at all in the last 4 or so years, who were the others spokespeople?

To be honest, I see Eoin O'Broin who has ideas, albeit some are far-fetched and unachievable, but there is an intellect there. Louise O'Reilly is very good too, an ex-union official, and well-respected for her work there. Beyond that, Pearse struggles with understanding the numbers, and the rest aren't really up to much. David "up the ra" Cullinane as a Minister? Mary-Lou makes for a great out-front leader, but the debates showed she doesn't do detail very well. Dessie Ellis, Aengus O'Snodaigh, enough said.

Still, you are right, it does compare favourably with Fianna Fail.

Fine Gael had some weak ones, how did Mary Mitchell O'Connor ever get a job, but probably have the strongest line-up of the main parties.

dwmcdos

_Brian wrote: »

There is no party cohesion at all. In our electorate area a long standing FF candidate was asking for a No1 for himself and then advising to vote outside the party just to thwart one of his fellow FF candidates.

SF gave them a hard lesson on party brand and pushing transfers in the right direction.

It was noticeable across all constituencies that they weren't transferring particularly well to their running mates, bit of a civil war brewing?

Loafing Oaf

Basic equation is this: FF are (just about) the largest party ⇒ They will be leading the next government (assuming one is formed and there isn't another GE right away ⇒ Micheal Martin will be taoiseach ⇒ He stays on as FF leader as least as long as that government lasts

loyatemu

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Basic equation is this: FF are (just about) the largest party ⇒ They will be leading the next government (assuming one is formed and there isn't another GE right away ⇒ Micheal Martin will be taoiseach ⇒ He stays on as FF leader as least as long as that government lasts

which would guarantee they'd go into the next election with MM as leader; there are probably many in FF who wouldn't be keen on that idea.

Pherekydes

Lisa Chambers will be the next leader.

john9876

Pherekydes wrote: »

Lisa Chambers will be the next leader.

Can she be leader if not a TD?

Surely there's a Haughey or a Cowen who can carry on the great traditions of FF?

rob316

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Basic equation is this: FF are (just about) the largest party ⇒ They will be leading the next government (assuming one is formed and there isn't another GE right away ⇒ Micheal Martin will be taoiseach ⇒ He stays on as FF leader as least as long as that government lasts

They did abysmal and especially bad in Dublin constituencies. His leadership is in severe doubt. They are meeting tomorrow aren't they?

Pherekydes

john9876 wrote: »

Can she be leader if not a TD?

Surely there's a Haughey or a Cowen who can carry on the great traditions of FF?

Well, taking Loafing Oaf's equation above and carrying on: Mícheál is an Taoiseach until the next election, gets dumped after a mauling and a newly reelected, photogenic TD is selected as leader for a new generation.

john9876

Odds from PP

Next Fianna Fail Leader

Dara Calleary
5/2
Jim O'Callaghan
5/2
Michael McGrath
4/1
Thomas Byrne
6/1
Niall Collins
7/1
Paul McAuliffe
12/1
Darragh O'Brien
16/1
Barry Cowen
18/1
Robert Troy
25/1
John McGuinness
25/1
Jack Chambers
33/1
James Browne
33/1
Anne Rabbitte
33/1
Seán Ó Fearghail
50/1
Mary Butler
50/1
Eamon O'Cuiv
66/1
Stephen Donnelly
66/1
Willie O'Dea
150 / 1

john9876

Just for comparison, the next Fine Gael leader seems a more straightforward affair

Next Permanent Leader of Fine Gael after Leo Varadkar

Simon Coveney
2/5
Paschal Donohoe
15/2
Helen McEntee
10/1
Josepha Madigan
14/1
Simon Harris
20/1
Heather Humphreys
25/1
Eoghan Murphy
25/1
Paul Kehoe
33/1
Charles Flanagan
33/1
Richard Bruton
33/1
Seán Kyne
33/1
Martin Heydon
40/1
Joe McHugh
40/1
Michael Ring
66/1
Michael Creed
66/1
Colm Brophy
100/1

Loafing Oaf

john9876 wrote: »

Odds from PP

Next Fianna Fail Leader

Dara Calleary
5/2
Jim O'Callaghan
5/2
Michael McGrath
4/1
Thomas Byrne
6/1
Niall Collins
7/1
Paul McAuliffe
12/1
Darragh O'Brien
16/1
Barry Cowen
18/1
Robert Troy
25/1
John McGuinness
25/1
Jack Chambers
33/1
James Browne
33/1
Anne Rabbitte
33/1
Seán Ó Fearghail
50/1
Mary Butler
50/1
Eamon O'Cuiv
66/1
Stephen Donnelly
66/1
Willie O'Dea
150 / 1

O'Callaghan has boosted his stature hugely through his strong stand against coalition with SF in recent days, when the likes of Calleary and O'Dea were hemming and hawing in the face of Martin's apparent wobble. He remains AFAIK the only senior FF figure to categorically say he would not serve in government with SF.

BENDYBINN

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

O'Callaghan has boosted his stature hugely through his strong stand against coalition with SF in recent days, when the likes of Calleary and O'Dea were hemming and hawing in the face of Martin's apparent wobble. He remains AFAIK the only senior FF figure to categorically say he would not serve in government with SF.

Martin’s apparent wobble was a last desperate attempt to save his political career..

Morgans

What I was wanting Mary Wilson to ask O'Callaghan was "what do you say to FF supporters who voted for you in the hopes for your manifesto to be implemented?" Having got the largest amount of seats in the country, you are saying you do not want to be in government. If you are so abhorred by SF in government why arent you as the leading party in the country negotiating to prevent it from happening. Will FF with O'Callaghan as leader ever sit in government?

I understand the horse trading and the calculation that SF will have to come to FF in the coming weeks. Its no problem sending out mixed messages at this stage.

Loafing Oaf

Morgans wrote: »

What I was wanting Mary Wilson to ask O'Callaghan was "what do you say to FF supporters who voted for you in the hopes for your manifesto to be implemented?" Having got the largest amount of seats in the country, you are saying you do not want to be in government. If you are so abhorred by SF in government why arent you as the leading party in the country negotiating to prevent it from happening. Will FF with O'Callaghan as leader ever sit in government?

They are currently "giving SF the time and space" to put together a broad left government. O'Callaghan has not said he opposes a deal with FG.

_Brian

dwmcdos wrote: »

It was noticeable across all constituencies that they weren't transferring particularly well to their running mates, bit of a civil war brewing?

I don’t know who the party whip is but they failed in their job to force people into line. Imagine if a SF candidate was going about trying to thwart another SF candidate, they would have ventilation in their knees very quickly.

ChikiChiki

rob316 wrote: »

Absolute madness leaving him contest an election, he represents everything of the old guard that the electorate don't like. This god given right that FF should be in power.

Fully agree. But a lot in the upper echelons of the party do not see them as having done any wrong. Completely detached.

Morgans

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

They are currently "giving SF the time and space" to put together a broad left government. O'Callaghan has not said he opposes a deal with FG.

FG, Coveney, has said that they oppose a confidence and Supply arrangement. Everyone knows what FF are doing. Its remarkable how easy a ride they are getting for it.

jimmycrackcorm

Morgans wrote: »

FG, Coveney, has said that they oppose a confidence and Supply arrangement. Everyone knows what FF are doing. Its remarkable how easy a ride they are getting for it.

I think even if we end up with another election, which would suit SF as they would gain seats, it would be FF that would lose out more than FG.

So it suits FG to block C&S. Particularly when FF are strenuously saying that no one wants another election.

Loafing Oaf

Morgans wrote: »

FG, Coveney, has said that they oppose a confidence and Supply arrangement.

Varadkar hasn't ruled it out definitively. If FF approach them with a serious offer I don't think it would be tenable for FG to turn it down. How could they face the electorate after effectively 'forcing' a FF/SF coalition?

Morgans

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Varadkar hasn't ruled it out definitively. If FF approach them with a serious offer I don't think it would be tenable for FG to turn it down. How could they face the electorate after effectively 'forcing' a FF/SF coalition?

And Coveney in ruling out a Confidence and Supply arrangement isnt ruling out a coalition - maybe with the Greens.

I thought Leo looked somewhat relieved after the result. Maybe its electioneering that's wearing.

JohnnyFlash

Michael McGrath seems like a decent sort. They’re a little bit short of top-table talent to be honest.

mojesius

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Michael McGrath seems like a decent sort. They’re a little bit short of top-table talent to be honest.

He might also choose to balance the gender inequality of the party by bringing a few MILFs onboard.

JohnnyFlash

mojesius wrote: »

He might also choose to balance the gender inequality of the party by bringing a few MILFs onboard.

Harmless stuff, and not worthy of much comment. I'd suggest that a lot of the punters around here have the flute nearly detached from themselves watching porn.



If that's the worst mud that can be thrown at him then he will be alright.

Moghead

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Michael McGrath seems like a decent sort. They’re a little bit short of top-table talent to be honest.

I think he'd be a terrible choice for leader, guy has zero charisma. Same with O'Cuiv.

I agreed with the previous posters who said there is a serious lack of talent in FF at the moment, look at that Jack Chambers guy.

JohnnyFlash

Moghead wrote: »

I think he'd be a terrible choice for leader, guy has zero charisma. Same with O'Cuiv.

I agreed with the previous posters who said there is a serious lack of talent in FF at the moment, look at that Jack Chambers guy.

O'Cuiv isn't a runner. I'm from his neck of the woods originally. He's a clever guy, a passionate FF'r, and a decent skin, but he's no leader of FF.

jos28

I'm no fan of MM but if he's plays it clever he could benefit greatly from the current 'mess'.
Stick to the party line and not entertain SF.
Negotiate with Leo and co to join FF for the good of the country - Leo owes him one anyway.
Get the GP/SDs to join in with MM as Taoiseach
His party members will have cabinet positions instead of heading into the wilderness - Job Done.

kevthegaff

I think finan a fail are in big trouble long term, I was aT an Ard fheis a few years back and the age profile was shocking, I was the youngest there in my early 30s. I think new blood was needed back then as leader as mm is seen as one of the old boys. I was talking to a few old fellas at the time and they were stubborn that MM was the man for the job, they just couldn't see any change from the old guard. This is the reason sinn feinn are getting good votes now as they have worked the colleges the last 10 years. Personally I'd prefer if they had a different profile as a leader (lisa chambers but she cant now)or a strong leader possibly dara callery. I don't know much of him but I saw him briefly in the irish and English debates and he seemed competent. Michael Mcgrath I find good but maybe not leadership material. I have a dealing ff will drop more seats in the next elections unless drastic changes..

Fr_Dougal

Might as well bring back Bertie.

Idbatterim

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Surely Martin can no longer remain as leader of FF.........completely rejected at the polls on Saturday.
Who’s inline to takeover?

Ff being the largest party is some achievement, given they are a national disgrace !

BENDYBINN

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ff being the largest party is some achievement, given they are a national disgrace !

The financial crisis was a world wide event as far as I recall .....FF didn’t force anyone to queue for five days to they could get their hands on phase 3 of the meadows! The whole country was a disgrace back then..

irishfeen

Maybe a republican leader for “the Republican Party” ... SF has stole their thunder on Northern Ireland. That was fertile ground for FF for generations.

Floppybits

Fianna Fail are old and stale this is why they are losing votes. FG I think are jaded from the 9 years in government and need the break. If both go in together in coalition government then it will see the end of one of them.