Lodgers.... am i being unreasonable....

fluffingtons

I would love to hear some opinions!

We recently took two lodgers to help us save to buy a house.
I'm really regretting one of them...

She never leaves the house, works at the dining table in the kitchen/diner and sits there for hours, turns the heat on way too high and leaves it running...

I know none of these is a serious issue, could be way worse etc.

the problem is there is a bit of an atmosphere now...
I spoke to her about the heating and she seems to be in a huff, I find we're avoiding each other.. its not fun... not sure what to do!

anyone have any experience with lodgers? Did you set rules about heating/use of shared spaces etc?

thanks!

Daisy 55

Unreasonable or not, I wouldn’t be having an atmosphere in my own home. Best tell her it’s not working out. Next one might be a better fit.

fluffingtons

thanks

yes that's my strong feeling now.

its gone to the stage where she's irritating me

I accept I might be the difficult one here. there's nothing really wrong with her as a person, sometimes it just doesn't work out.

Its not in her interest either to be fair

the other lodger is a dream so I know it is possible!

James 007

Daisy 55 wrote: »

Unreasonable or not, I wouldn’t be having an atmosphere in my own home. Best tell her it’s not working out. Next one might be a better fit.

She doesn't own the house so the question is who's name is on the lease. If its the poster only & they get paid directly from the other tenants, then she could do just that as other tenants are classed as licencees. If not, then all are tenants and have equal rights. Others on here will have a better opinion on this.

I would be interested in drawing up a set of house rules as I also plan to rent out the first floor in my house but I would like to have the rules set from the outset.

endacl

She has no business being in a huff.

Write up a set of house rules that suits you. Lodger A is probably already conducting themselves that way. Lodger B can like it or lump it.

Get rid and hope the next one is better. She’s probably huffing because she incorrectly thinks she has some rights to stay.

endacl

Oh, and if you are renting yourself, check out at what point the lodgers might gain tenancy rights and be entitled to be named in the lease. If you don’t want this to happen make sure they’re looking for alternative accommodation before this time.

antix80

Give her notice. Life's too short.

I'd suggest having clocks and thermostats set up so that the heat is kept at an agreed temperature at specified times of the day. Having a constant/off switch is a disaster.

You should also provide writing desks in each bedroom.

roper1664

This is a common complaint, from my own experiences and also from a friend of mine. There can be a lack of understanding from paying guests/licensees, that they are paying for a bedroom, with access to and use of the kitchen, bathroom and any other agreed areas. However, I think that people in that capacity can see it as a "house share" and essentially park themselves and their items anywhere they want in the house and for as long as they want, and also think they have access to all of the home owners' possessions. All while leaving the home owner(s) to clean up after them etc.

Think it through first, as if a small increase in bills and her taking up the dining room doesn't put you out much, then you might decide to put up with it.

If you decide you're not happy with the situation, it's best to have a calm chat with her and explain the situation. If you get any attitude from her, then explain the terms of the rent-a-room scheme clearly, and consider moving her on.

roper1664

roper1664 wrote: »

This is a common complaint, from my own experiences and also from a friend of mine. There can be a lack of understanding from paying guests/licensees, that they are paying for a bedroom, with access to and use of the kitchen, bathroom and any other agreed areas. However, I think that people in that capacity can see it as a "house share" and essentially park themselves and their items anywhere they want in the house and for as long as they want, and also think they have access to all of the home owners' possessions. All while leaving the home owner(s) to clean up after them etc.

Think it through first, as if a small increase in bills and her taking up the dining room doesn't put you out much, then you might decide to put up with it.

If you decide you're not happy with the situation, it's best to have a calm chat with her and explain the situation. If you get any attitude from her, then explain the terms of the rent-a-room scheme clearly, and consider moving her on.

also, as others have said, be clear with the next person from the start that it's rent a room and what your expectations are. I've been guilty of being too easy going and laid back myself. And be clear only people working/studying outside the house at least 30 hrs per week will be considered.

James 007

roper1664 wrote: »

This is a common complaint, from my own experiences and also from a friend of mine. There can be a lack of understanding from paying guests/licensees, that they are paying for a bedroom, with access to and use of the kitchen, bathroom and any other agreed areas. However, I think that people in that capacity can see it as a "house share" and essentially park themselves and their items anywhere they want in the house and for as long as they want, and also think they have access to all of the home owners' possessions. All while leaving the home owner(s) to clean up after them etc.

Think it through first, as if a small increase in bills and her taking up the dining room doesn't put you out much, then you might decide to put up with it.

If you decide you're not happy with the situation, it's best to have a calm chat with her and explain the situation. If you get any attitude from her, then explain the terms of the rent-a-room scheme clearly, and consider moving her on.

So in order to help the poster & myself, lets start making the set of rules, I'll start the first 10:
1. Heating is set from X to Y at a Temp of Z
2. No hogging the kitchen/dining area as an office, please use your desk/chair in your room for office/laptop periods
3. Peak morning shower time, 8 to 10am, max. usage time X mins
4. Peak evening cooking time, 6 to 9pm, max. usage time Y mins
5. No noise, loud music, parties in the house
6. No over-staying guests allowed in the house
7. No smoking in the house
8. Keep all communal areas clean
9. No hogging the washing machine/dryer, cycles to be taken in turns
10. Head phones to be used in conjunction with laptops at all times

Oranage2

This is absolutely mad, she's paying your mortgage but can't even use the sitting room!

roper1664

James 007 wrote: »

So in order to help the poster & myself, lets start making the set of rules, I'll start the first 10:
1. Heating is set from X to Y at a Temp of Z
2. No hogging the kitchen/dining area as an office, please use your desk/chair in your room for office/laptop periods
3. Peak morning shower time, 8 to 10am, max. usage time X mins
4. Peak evening cooking time, 6 to 9pm, max. usage time Y mins
5. No noise, loud music, parties in the house
6. No over-staying guests allowed in the house
7. No smoking in the house
8. Keep all communal areas clean
9. No hogging the washing machine/dryer, cycles to be taken in turns
10. Head phones to be used in conjunction with laptops at all times

Jaysus, this goes beyond what even I was thinking, but it makes sense 👠I'll add to it, if I think of anything more.

the_syco

fluffingtons wrote: »

She never leaves the house, works at the dining table in the kitchen/diner and sits there for hours, turns the heat on way too high and leaves it running...
..
I spoke to her about the heating and she seems to be in a huff, I find we're avoiding each other.. its not fun... not sure what to do!

She's in a huff for being told to cop on? If you owned the house, I'd say boot her, but you don't, so I'll ask; is she on the lease, or are you subletting? If the latter, boot her if she hasn't applied to become a tenant yet, if the former, you'll have to play nice.

the_syco

Oranage2 wrote: »

This is absolutely mad, she's paying your mortgage but can't even use the sitting room!

She's not. Also, I'd say that she's paying less than tenants in the area, if she's a licensee.

fluffingtons

Thanks v much everyone, lots to think about here...

fluffingtons

We are renting a family member's house while they are away for work, so not a straightforward situation but basically yes we are in charge and they have no rights on paper really

We didn't sign any contract with them, maybe we were a bit naive about the whole thing

fluffingtons

The thing is - there are two sitting rooms! one 'good' sitting room, and one kitchen/diner/lounge

I have suggested to her a few times that she use the empty one that no one uses much

She doesn't seem to have any self awareness that she might be hogging the space, not just for us but for the other lodger too.

Bit of a first world problem I know but

jrmb

fluffingtons wrote: »

She doesn't seem to have any self awareness that she might be hogging the space, not just for us but for the other lodger too.

Have you or the other lodger as much as asked to watch TV or share the table? It could be that you're jumping the gun, and likely to feel exactly like this, whether you keep this lodger or find someone else.

amadangomor

roper1664 wrote: »

Jaysus, this goes beyond what even I was thinking, but it makes sense 👠I'll add to it, if I think of anything more.

The shower times and duration are bonkers though

Mic 1972

From personal experience, it takes a little adapting with lodgers.
I was super enthusiastic when i started renting out rooms in my house, i soon became annoyed with people cranking up the heating, slamming doors, leaving mess behind them and so on. I then set up rules and as a result lodgers weren't happy and left every 2-3 months, this created a continuous flow of strangers in the house which I also didn't like.
I'm now at a point were i can put up with a lot more than before while at the same time I will kick out the odd lodger every now and then when limits are passed.
At the end of the day it's all cash in the hands, I can't complain about that!

roper1664

fluffingtons wrote: »

The thing is - there are two sitting rooms! one 'good' sitting room, and one kitchen/diner/lounge

I have suggested to her a few times that she use the empty one that no one uses much

She doesn't seem to have any self awareness that she might be hogging the space, not just for us but for the other lodger too.

Bit of a first world problem I know but

We had and have the same problem. One person was using the kitchen table as an office, and we thought it was unfair on the other licensee and on us. So we talked to both of them about the kitchen being for cooking and eating only. Not to be used as an office/ Netflix watching area. Both agreed. Now, recently, the "better" licensee has gone wrong. Spends day 4.5 hrs a day (can be 1 hr breakfast, 3 hrs lunch, and 0.5 hr dinner) cooking when he's off work, and in-between takes up the kitchen table. Up and back to the cooker. I'm working my meals around him, as I have to wait till he's finished!

I'd say these types of complaints must be common. I couldn't imagine renting a room from someone, and doing these things! There are plenty of more expensive leased house shares out there, if that's what a person wants.

Sorry for hijacking! Rant over.

fluffingtons

jrmb wrote: »

Have you or the other lodger as much as asked to watch TV or share the table? It could be that you're jumping the gun, and likely to feel exactly like this, whether you keep this lodger or find someone else.

yes that's fair, no I haven't actually said it to her so not much of a leg to stand on I guess!
however I was kind of surprised and put off by how huffy she got about the heating, not inclined to go there at the moment

I don't want to do anything rash, will see how things are in day or two

roper1664

amadangomor wrote: »

The shower times and duration are bonkers though

I agree, if someone is absolutely taking the piss, then just have a word.

fluffingtons

roper1664 wrote: »

We had and have the same problem. One person was using the kitchen table as an office, and we thought it was unfair on the other licensee and on us. So we talked to both of them about the kitchen being for cooking and eating only. Not to be used as an office/ Netflix watching area. Both agreed. Now, recently, the "better" licensee has gone wrong. Spends day 4.5 hrs a day (can be 1 hr breakfast, 3 hrs lunch, and 0.5 hr dinner) cooking when he's off work, and in-between takes up the kitchen table. Up and back to the cooker. I'm working my meals around him, as I have to wait till he's finished!

I'd say these types of complaints must be common. I couldn't imagine renting a room from someone, and doing these things! There are plenty of more expensive leased house shares out there, if that's what a person wants.

Sorry for hijacking! Rant over.

I hear you!
so stressful when you're feeling annoyed all the time.
I can't imagine acting like that either, maybe I'm giving myself too much credit Idk

James 007

amadangomor wrote: »

The shower times and duration are bonkers though

It might not be relevant to the opening poster as they may have ensuites, but very much relevant to my situation if I plan to go down the route of letting. For example 10mins is ample enough time for someone to shower, usually some people tend to be in a shower for 15-20mins & if not using the shower they probably use the mirror in the bathroom for doing themselves up whereas they could use their bedroom for this period of time. I'm basing this on experience in my past house shares.

Caranica

fluffingtons wrote: »

We didn't sign any contract with them, maybe we were a bit naive about the whole thing

Don't sign contracts with licensees, to do so will potentially give them more rights than they're entitled to.

fluffingtons

Mr.S wrote: »

If you don't want the lodgers using the common space, make that clear before they move in / draw up a list of rules they agree too. IMO not her fault if nothing was said before hand.

The heating is easier, shouldn't be on 24/7 unless they are willing to pay more for the bills.

Yes totally. We knew she was employed. I guess we presumed she would be out most of the day. wrong. she does a childminding stint early in the morning, she is home most of the day. every day. On weekends she literally doesn't leave the house at all.

Myself and partner both have flexi work hours so can be home days/half days quite often

We should have asked her what hours she worked. Would def do that going forward, make sure schedules are compatible

fluffingtons

antix80 wrote: »

Give her notice. Life's too short.

I'd suggest having clocks and thermostats set up so that the heat is kept at an agreed temperature at specified times of the day. Having a constant/off switch is a disaster.

You should also provide writing desks in each bedroom.

That's a good idea.

yeah life is way too short, quality of home life is a big deal

fluffingtons

roper1664 wrote: »

also, as others have said, be clear with the next person from the start that it's rent a room and what your expectations are. I've been guilty of being too easy going and laid back myself. And be clear only people working/studying outside the house at least 30 hrs per week will be considered.

Yes 100%

I wish I had asked her about her typical work hours.

fluffingtons

roper1664 wrote: »

Jaysus, this goes beyond what even I was thinking, but it makes sense 👠I'll add to it, if I think of anything more.

I would have agreed with you before this experience!

Now I can see rules are better than awkward conversations and huffs

James 007

fluffingtons wrote: »

The thing is - there are two sitting rooms! one 'good' sitting room, and one kitchen/diner/lounge

I have suggested to her a few times that she use the empty one that no one uses much

She doesn't seem to have any self awareness that she might be hogging the space, not just for us but for the other lodger too.

Bit of a first world problem I know but

I would have a rule that all the tenants have to use this sitting room. How good a sitting room is it, could you put an eating table there for them. That way the only time they are in the kitchen/dining/lounge area is when they need to cook.

saabsaab

Yes some people have no awareness of boundaries. Anyway no need for unpleasantness just tell her it's not working out and that she will need to move out in a week, month etc. Or that you need her room for something?

marieholmfan

She isn't a licensee and you're out of luck.

Rent a room scheme doesn't apply.

Do you work?

James 007

fluffingtons wrote: »

I would have agreed with you before this experience!

Now I can see rules are better than awkward conversations and huffs

Correct, I plan to have a set of rules in the kitchen/bathroom nicely written up on slate boards with an element of humour throwing in. The rules are there to be followed most of the time, but really I will only pointing the rules out to a tenant if there was a serious confrontation between two tenants. Tenants will adapt to peak usage times for showers according to their schedules, likewise they will probably get to know each other & take turns cooking, so really my rules will be there, be visible when they first come to the house & tenants will only be shown again if there was a serious issue.

fluffingtons

mikemac2 wrote: »

Don’t get involved in HAP says this forum usually

Here we have a working person and they spend too much time in the tenants house it seems. You and the partner are both home half days and some full days so can you complain? Ye are both home a lot also, more than most working people.

fair point
what we should have done was picked lodgers to suit our lifestyle. ie. people who work 9-5 and have active lives outside the home, interests, sports, gym, whatever

05eaftqbrs9jlh

James 007 wrote: »

Correct, I plan to have a set of rules in the kitchen/bathroom nicely written up on slate boards with an element of humour throwing in. The rules are there to be followed most of the time, but really I will only pointing the rules out to a tenant if there was a serious confrontation between two tenants. Tenants will adapt to peak usage times for showers according to their schedules, likewise they will probably get to know each other & take turns cooking, so really my rules will be there, be visible when they first come to the house & tenants will only be shown again if there was a serious issue.

Oh my god, if I had to live in a house with domestic doctrine on stone tablets hanging in sight of the main common areas (even if I wrote them myself), I be depressed out of my head.

Having seen this thread, I'm relieved not to share a home with people outside my family. Unless you're good friends with the people (I've lived with friends and had a great time), it sounds like a nightmare.

marieholmfan

fluffingtons wrote: »

fair point
what we should have done was picked lodgers to suit our lifestyle. ie. people who work 9-5 and have active lives outside the home, interests, sports, gym, whatever

Co tenants . Your use of the term lodger is wishful thinking.

Graham

marieholmfan wrote: »

Co tenants . Your use of the term lodger is wishful thinking.

either that or you are wrong.

fluffingtons

James 007 wrote: »

So in order to help the poster & myself, lets start making the set of rules, I'll start the first 10:
1. Heating is set from X to Y at a Temp of Z
2. No hogging the kitchen/dining area as an office, please use your desk/chair in your room for office/laptop periods
3. Peak morning shower time, 8 to 10am, max. usage time X mins
4. Peak evening cooking time, 6 to 9pm, max. usage time Y mins
5. No noise, loud music, parties in the house
6. No over-staying guests allowed in the house
7. No smoking in the house
8. Keep all communal areas clean
9. No hogging the washing machine/dryer, cycles to be taken in turns
10. Head phones to be used in conjunction with laptops at all times

good list. 1, 2, 4, 7 and 8 would be my main concerns. I don't mind a bit of music or partying now and then if all agreed... I would like the lodgers to be happy as far as possible

I would add
References from previous landlord
References from employer
No pulling furniture around! (that's another of her habits)
No leaving front doors unlocked (another habit)

When you interview potential lodgers try and get a good sense of their hobbies, interests, work schedule, ie a sense of whether you will be under one another's feet or not

Caranica

marieholmfan wrote: »

She isn't a licensee and you're out of luck.

Rent a room scheme doesn't apply.

Do you work?

How do you make that out? It absolutely does apply.

Strumms

antix80 wrote: »

Give her notice. Life's too short.

I'd suggest having clocks and thermostats set up so that the heat is kept at an agreed temperature at specified times of the day. Having a constant/off switch is a disaster.

You should also provide writing desks in each bedroom.

Good advice, but just..... does she need to do college stuff / work at home ? If there is nowhere to do it ie. a desk provided in her room, then it’s probably not unreasonable that she’d want to do it in reasonable comfort ie. not lying on a bed... I wouldn’t begrudge this... IKEA have a decent selection... https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/cat/desks-computer-desks-20649/

I’d certainly get tough regarding the heating, just say that the rent was figured with proper and reasonable use in mind and that the heating use would need to be moderated.

saabsaab

'leaving front doors unlocked (another habit)'

I would hate that! Shows that they don't give a damm.

Life too short as some said earlier, just ask them to leave.

James 007

Marissa Fluffy Clown wrote: »

Oh my god, if I had to live in a house with domestic doctrine on stone tablets hanging in sight of the main common areas (even if I wrote them myself), I be depressed out of my head.
………...

Yes, but if I plan to rent out to tenants, my own sanity will always come first, if there is an issue with the tenant or a tenant making noise at 2am in the morning, they move on, that's it.

mikemac2

The OP is looking for a lodger who works 50 hours a week and goes down the country every weekend

The dream lodger

Failing that hit the gym every day and use the oven at unusually late hours

If I moved into a place and learned the people I shared with were working part time and half days I wouldn’t feel guilty for doing the same

The lodger didn’t say they were part time before moving. Did the OP and partner say they were part time to the lodger?

Stark

James 007 wrote: »

So in order to help the poster & myself, lets start making the set of rules, I'll start the first 10:
1. Heating is set from X to Y at a Temp of Z
2. No hogging the kitchen/dining area as an office, please use your desk/chair in your room for office/laptop periods
3. Peak morning shower time, 8 to 10am, max. usage time X mins
4. Peak evening cooking time, 6 to 9pm, max. usage time Y mins
5. No noise, loud music, parties in the house
6. No over-staying guests allowed in the house
7. No smoking in the house
8. Keep all communal areas clean
9. No hogging the washing machine/dryer, cycles to be taken in turns
10. Head phones to be used in conjunction with laptops at all times

Better yet, they just give you money without actually moving in. Dream lodger! Now where do we find them?

endacl

fluffingtons wrote: »

fair point
what we should have done was picked lodgers to suit our lifestyle. ie. people who work 9-5 and have active lives outside the home, interests, sports, gym, whatever

You still can. You were looking for a lodger. Sounds like she was looking for a house share. It’s a bad match.

As an aside, even though you’ve a loose arrangement with the relations your renting the house from, you do have tenancy rights, even if you never choose to exercise them. That’s your own affair. However, your lodgers will gain the right to tenancy one a set period has elapsed. Do you want to land your relations with tenants they never asked for, plus the hassle they’ll get with RTB regarding the tenants they never asked for?

fluffingtons

mikemac2 wrote: »

The OP is looking for a lodger who works 50 hours a week and goes down the country every weekend

The dream lodger

Failing that hit the gym every day and use the oven at usually late hours

If I moved into a place and learned the people I shared with were working part time and half days I wouldn’t feel guilty for doing the same

The lodger didn’t say they were part time before moving. Did the OP and partner say they were part time to the lodger?

lol you're not totally wrong
still, fact is we got to do the picking and choosing in this case. should have done things a bit differently

saabsaab

Stark wrote: »

Better yet, they just give you money without actually moving in. Dream lodger! Now where do we find them?

To be fair they aren't a good fit so best end it.

endacl

Stark wrote: »

Better yet, they just give you money without actually moving in. Dream lodger! Now where do we find them?

I was one of those for a year. Suited me fine. Nice big room, access to facilities, and relatively cheap rent.

Stark

Marissa Fluffy Clown wrote: »

Oh my god, if I had to live in a house with domestic doctrine on stone tablets hanging in sight of the main common areas (even if I wrote them myself), I be depressed out of my head.

Having seen this thread, I'm relieved not to share a home with people outside my family. Unless you're good friends with the people (I've lived with friends and had a great time), it sounds like a nightmare.

There's one piece of advice I've received many times with regard to renting. Never move in with an owner occupier.