Immigration and the housing crisis

DelaneyIn

92% of renters in the Dublin docklands are non national and rents there are 20% higher than the Dublin average.

Is this fair to Irish workers some of whom can't afford to live in Dublin and are having to consider emigration or moving out of the city? Is is an example of gentrification pushing up rents, as landlords bring in high paying tenants from abroad? Quite apart from the housing crisis.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/92-of-renters-in-dublins-docklands-were-not-from-ireland-978395.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

This article shows that huge numbers of immigrants are in receipt of social housing too.

Last year, I decided to ask the Department of Social Protection what percentage of rent supplement was paid out to non-Irish EU nationals, and non-EU nationals.

As at February of last year, the figure was 35pc. This is a remarkable total. Remember, 17pc of the population is "foreign-born", so immigrants are over-represented in the figures by two to one.

More recently, I asked Fingal County Council what percentage of its social housing stock is occupied by non-Irish EU nationals and by non-EU nationals. The total comes to 15pc, but the great majority (86pc) of the 15pc come from outside the EU.

I also asked what percentage of those waiting for social housing fell into these same categories. Some 61pc are Irish citizens (some might be naturalised immigrants), and the rest (39pc) are citizens of other countries, with 16pc from outside the EU.

The ERSI report shows that 70pc of non-Irish are in the private rental sector, as distinct from being homeowners etc. That's a lot of people. So, what effect is that having on the cost of rent and the availability of rental property?

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

Is one of the main causes of the housing crisis immigration? It seems so yet it’s never discussed when debating the issue.

Trigger Happy

The economy would be back in 1982 without foreign workers.
No housing crisis back then. No hope either.

Robert McGrath

We had no housing crisis in the 1980s when everyone was emigrating. Wouldn’t it be great if we go back to those golden days

Edit: Trigger Happy beat me to it!

Tenzor07

Robert McGrath wrote: »

We had no housing crisis in the 1980s when everyone was emigrating.!

Ah thems were the days, no jobs, no hope, wonder what all the residents of places like New York, London and Sydney thought about all these foreigners showing up taking their jobs?

Sheeps

The problem is not the population. It's the lack of homes. We're one of the least densly populated countries in Europe. It's not rocket science.

maneno

DelaneyIn wrote: »

92% of renters in the Dublin docklands are non national and rents there are 20% higher than the Dublin average.

Is this fair to Irish workers some of whom can't afford to live in Dublin and are having to consider emigration or moving out of the city? Is is an example of gentrification pushing up rents, as landlords bring in high paying tenants from abroad? Quite apart from the housing crisis.

Are the landlords discriminating on the Irish? If a foreign national can afford the rent in the docklands, what exactly is the issue? Or should foreigners be stopped from renting?

maneno

Sheeps wrote: »

The problem is no the population. It's the lack of homes. We're one of the least densly populated countries in Europe. It's not rocket science.

Another problem could be the “foreva homes” gang wanting to live near mammy with their “angles”.

RobertKK

We need 100,000+++ workers extra in the construction sector, we don't have them here, we need more immigrants to come in and work in construction.

I don't get people who are anti-immigrant, the national party election ad the other night was a disgrace, saying we had too many... when the reality is we need more to fix the country, like building houses, working in health etc

beejee

It's absolutely disgraceful.

What adds insult to injury is the plethora of soft-headed eejits that will nervously joke about "sure where would we be without 'em" and "durrr, racism".

Immigration is not the only reason for housing problems, but it's so downplayed it might as well be the elephant in the room.

It's happening everywhere. Just earlier I was reading about states in America going ape-shoite about mass immigration from one state to the other, pushing rents through the roof and forcing the "natives" out. It's not a stretch to rightfully compare it to colonialism. Literal colonies of one group setting up shop in another groups "home", pushing them out.

This stuff won't last, and it won't just disappear quietly. A reckoning is in the post, and the greedy bastids that set this whole shambles in motion will foot the bill, whether it's 1 year or 10 years from now.

The numbers above, man, holy jaysus, even if they're only half correct...

beejee

RobertKK wrote: »

We need 100,000+++ workers extra in the construction sector, we don't have them here, we need more immigrants to come in and work in construction.

I don't get people who are anti-immigrant, the national party election ad the other night was a disgrace, saying we had too many... when the reality is we need more to fix the country, like building houses, working in health etc

This stuff, the logic of a lobotomised otter.

dxhound2005

That figure of 17% born abroad is from the 2016 Census. It should not be confused with nationality. Irish families with children born abroad can return to Ireland. Between the 2011 and 2016 Censuses there was a decrease in the number of non nationals living in the country, and they represented 11.6% of the population in 2016.


Between 2011 and 2016 the number of non-Irish nationals
fell for the first time since the question was introduced
on the census in 2002 and stood at 535,475 down from
544,357 five years earlier.

The proportion of the population who were non-Irish
nationals has also fallen from 12.2 per cent in 2011 to 11.6
per cent in 2016.

RobertKK

beejee wrote: »

It's absolutely disgraceful.

What adds insult to injury is the plethora of soft-headed eejits that will nervously joke about "sure where would we be without 'em" and "durrr, racism".

Immigration is not the only reason for housing problems, but it's so downplayed it might as well be the elephant in the room.

It's happening everywhere. Just earlier I was reading about states in America going ape-shoite about mass immigration from one state to the other, pushing rents through the roof and forcing the "natives" out. It's not a stretch to rightfully compare it to colonialism. Literal colonies of one group setting up shop in another groups "home", pushing them out.

This stuff won't last, and it won't just disappear quietly. A reckoning is in the post, and the greedy bastids that set this whole shambles in motion will foot the bill, whether it's 1 year or 10 years from now.

The numbers above, man, holy jaysus, even if they're only half correct...

At least the Irish never emigrated en masse, imagine if we had a famine and people left...

lainey_d_123

Who cares? People are people. Nobody has a God given right to live in Dublin and the only people I know who think that are Irish born wasters who have thinks like 'Job: full time mammy' on their Facebook profiles and have never worked a day in their lives.

If you're so put out that foreign nationals are paying lots of money to live in the nice Docklands apartments, why not try asking yourself why they seem to be doing so much better than most of the natives, despite (usually) speaking English as a second/third language and having come here as adults with no support network?

beejee

maneno wrote: »

Another problem could be the “foreva homes” gang wanting to live near mammy with their “angles”.

Here's a story for you. An eastern European in one of the forever homes from the government (how?!?!). The neighbour is from the same country too (!!)

An accident resulted in one their forever homes being damaged. Council comes in to fix it for them. Neighbour "falls" over construction work...straight on the compo bandwagon.

People need to snap the fook out of it about a lot of these angels.

RobertKK

beejee wrote: »

This stuff, the logic of a lobotomised otter.

The lobotomy must have worked as I use information for my post.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/columnists/john-daly-construction-industry-calls-out-for-more-workers-979376.html

It says 112,000 workers needed for the construction the country needs.

dxhound2005

beejee wrote: »

Here's a story for you. An eastern European in one of the forever homes from the government (how?!?!). The neighbour is from the same country too (!!)

An accident resulted in one their forever homes being damaged. Council comes in to fix it for them. Neighbour "falls" over construction work...straight on the compo bandwagon.

People need to snap the fook out of it about a lot of these angels.

Eastern European solicitor as well?

beejee

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Who cares? People are people. Nobody has a God given right to live in Dublin and the only people I know who think that are Irish born wasters who have thinks like 'Job: full time mammy' on their Facebook profiles and have never worked a day in their lives.

If you're so put out that foreign nationals are paying lots of money to live in the nice Docklands apartments, why not try asking yourself why they seem to be doing so much better than most of the natives, despite (usually) speaking English as a second/third language and having come here as adults with no support network?

No.

The day I adopt that retarded mentality will be the day I can move freely into your house.

lainey_d_123

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ah thems were the days, no jobs, no hope, wonder what all the residents of places like New York, London and Sydney thought about all these foreigners showing up taking their jobs?

I always find it truly amazing how some people with shoot their mouths off about foreigners and then in the next breath talk about their clever son/nephew/cousin and how great he is working in New York/London/Sydney. Takes a special kind of thick.

riclad

8000, people come here every year,
go to an shop or supermarket .Theres non nationals working there,
there simply are not enough irish people to work in the hotel,s ,cafe,s ,shops
etc we are in a boom, we could do with another few 1000 builders too.
We are in the eu, if people want to come here to work they can as long as they are eu citizens.
the problem is we need about 20k housing unit,s to match demand .
At the moment theres about 5k units built every year.we need a system that looks 10 year,s ahead, and plans we need x no of house,s built per year, we need units for single people ,people with children etc
Our hotels, tourism industry would collapse if non nationals decide to leave ireland.
We are now an modern diverse country,
we deal with it, or else we could end up like britain in a brexit type scenario.
the housing crisis was made worse by the rule banning bedsit,s
,these provided a place for students and people on low incomes to live.
Also most house building stopped for a while after 2008, when most builders went bankrupt.
i don,t hear americans complaining about irish people working in new york or boston.

lainey_d_123

beejee wrote: »

No.

The day I adopt that retarded mentality will be the day I can move freely into your house.

Stop blaming foreigners for your own failures in life.

beejee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Eastern European solicitor as well?

Sure why not?! It's all ripe for the plucking in thicko land here.

Who can blame them? It's handed out on a silver plate, and then defended by the ones handing it up.

Ridiculous.

Your Face

I'm not particularly strong supporter of immigration.

However, this problem is down to landlord greed and the reluctance of our institutions to do anything about it. Probably because the are of the same cohort.

Then there's lack of decent housing.

That's before you mention some of the problems with the construction industry in Ireland.

beejee

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Stop blaming foreigners for your own failures in life.

I'll be round your house tonight. You'll have the red carpet out I suppose!

lainey_d_123

beejee wrote: »

I'll be round your house tonight. You'll have the red carpet out I suppose!

For a bigot who can't formulate proper ideas, let alone write in coherent sentences?

Nah, you're alright.

beejee

RobertKK wrote: »

The lobotomy must have worked as I use information for my post.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/columnists/john-daly-construction-industry-calls-out-for-more-workers-979376.html

It says 112,000 workers needed for the construction the country needs.

Lackwit nonsense.

We need a million workers to build the houses we need, and then we'll need another million to build houses for the previous million, and then we'll need another million...

Lobotomised otter logic.

dxhound2005

Affordable housing is to be had in Ireland. Less affordable in Dublin than in places like Roscommon. But London is more expensive than the North of England.

https://www.property.ie/property-for-sale/roscommon/

And there are plenty of empty houses. They could be used to house the homeless, while they are waiting for their new house to be built in Dublin.

beejee

RobertKK wrote: »

At least the Irish never emigrated en masse, imagine if we had a famine and people left...

Remember that ancient relative in your family that murdered someone in 1758?

Well that means you'll be grand if someone murders you. Fair is fair after all. Makes sense.

beejee

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

For a bigot who can't formulate proper ideas, let alone write in coherent sentences?

Nah, you're alright.

Now now! Don't be discriminating, mother Theresa!

enricoh

So we need more foreign construction workers to build homes for us. Hmm sounds familiar- Celtic tiger part 2 , what could possibly go wrong!
From the opening post foreigners are twice as likely to be in receipt of rent allowance than native Irish. The aul diversity doesn't come cheap!

maneno

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I always find it truly amazing how some people with shoot their mouths off about foreigners and then in the next breath talk about their clever son/nephew/cousin and how great he is working in New York/London/Sydney. Takes a special kind of thick.

Sure, they feel entitled, but if it’s the “foreigners” in Ireland, the nerve!!

strandroad

DelaneyIn wrote: »

92% of renters in the Dublin docklands are non national

They are not, the 92% comes from a particular estate agent tenancy report. Most renters here don't need to use an agent, but the foreign ones might especially if such service is offered as part of company sponsored relocation package.

Ten of Swords

Mod

Moved to CA

FreeThePants

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I always find it truly amazing how some people with shoot their mouths off about foreigners and then in the next breath talk about their clever son/nephew/cousin and how great he is working in New York/London/Sydney. Takes a special kind of thick.

I've been an immigrant in other countries and had people rant and rave about how awful immigrants are to me in those countries. But they were complaining to me as if I were a like minded countryman of theirs, not an immigrant myself. I have on more than one occasion been corrected after telling someone I am an immigrant myself, to tell me I am an 'expat' (a term I really, really hate).

I always have to wonder how much both of these have to do with my being white, and from an English speaking western nation.

Arghus

beejee wrote: »

Remember that ancient relative in your family that murdered someone in 1758?

Well that means you'll be grand if someone murders you. Fair is fair after all. Makes sense.

Answers on a postcard please.

beejee

Arghus wrote: »

Answers on a postcard please.

Here's the answer: it's naive to the point of idiocy to conflate a world centuries ago where people went on "coffin" ships for months to some randomer getting a 20 quid Ryanair flight to social welfare land.

Wildly Boaring

FreeThePants wrote: »

I've been an immigrant in other countries and had people rant and rave about how awful immigrants are to me in those countries. But they were complaining to me as if I were a like minded countryman of theirs, not an immigrant myself. I have on more than one occasion been corrected after telling someone I am an immigrant myself, to tell me I am an 'expat' (a term I really, really hate).

I always have to wonder how much both of these have to do with my being white, and from an English speaking western nation.

Snap
The English are great for it.
"Ah sure no I mean real foreigners..."

sk8erboii

DelaneyIn wrote: »

92% of renters in the Dublin docklands are non national and rents there are 20% higher than the Dublin average.

Is this fair to Irish workers some of whom can't afford to live in Dublin and are having to consider emigration or moving out of the city? Is is an example of gentrification pushing up rents, as landlords bring in high paying tenants from abroad? Quite apart from the housing crisis.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/92-of-renters-in-dublins-docklands-were-not-from-ireland-978395.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

This article shows that huge numbers of immigrants are in receipt of social housing too.



https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

Is one of the main causes of the housing crisis immigration? It seems so yet it’s never discussed when debating the issue.

Are you for f*cking real? Thats like setting your entire house on fire but hey atleast no more termite problems.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

An accident resulted in one their forever homes being damaged. Council comes in to fix it for them. Neighbour "falls" over construction work...straight on the compo bandwagon.

People need to snap the fook out of it about a lot of these angels.

More Irish then the Irish themselves

Stheno

beejee wrote: »

Here's the answer: it's naive to the point of idiocy to conflate a world centuries ago where people went on "coffin" ships for months to some randomer getting a 20 quid Ryanair flight to social welfare land.

But the people renting apartments in dock lands are earning huge money? Are you confused?

Wildly Boaring

When Mary Lou was promising last night that demographics would sort the pension age, what do you think she meant?

We need immigrants very badly. Our population is aging fast. We offered and continue to offer early retirement to a bunch of middle ranking civil servants. We continue to offer free travel and GP care without means testing to the pensioners. Without immigrants to contribute to the tax take we're screwed.

beejee

Stheno wrote: »

But the people renting apartments in dock lands are earning huge money? Are you confused?

Here's the scenario.

Wealthy foreigners pushing Irish people out of the most productive areas.

Scamming foreigners getting on the social welfare lark in addition to the home grown ones.

It's a pincer move that absolutely wrecks society.

It's not the only problem, but it is basically taboo to even mention it. You have to be some gigantic ignoramus to not realise something so obvious.

beejee

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

When Mary Lou was promising last night that demographics would sort the pension age, what do you think she meant?

We need immigrants very badly. Our population is aging fast. We offered and continue to offer early retirement to a bunch of middle ranking civil servants. We continue to offer free travel and GP care without means testing to the pensioners. Without immigrants to contribute to the tax take we're screwed.

It's cannibalism to me.

"hey, we can solve our problems if we push ourselves out of existence!"

It's a chicken-hearted non-solution. But people keep buying it so far, let's see how long it lasts.

corner of hells

beejee wrote: »

Here's the scenario.

Wealthy foreigners pushing Irish people out of the most productive areas.

Scamming foreigners getting on the social welfare lark in addition to the home grown ones.

It's a pincer move that absolutely wrecks society.

It's not the only problem, but it is basically taboo to even mention it. You have to be some gigantic ignoramus to not realise something so obvious.

A pincer move by high earning foreigners and low earning foreigners, some sort of concerted effort ?
Why do they want to wreck society?

Stheno

beejee wrote: »

Here's the scenario.

Wealthy foreigners pushing Irish people out of the most productive areas.

Scamming foreigners getting on the social welfare lark in addition to the home grown ones.

It's a pincer move that absolutely wrecks society.

It's not the only problem, but it is basically taboo to even mention it. You have to be some gigantic ignoramus to not realise something so obvious.

Eh sorry I'm not a gigantic ginormous

I work in IT in docklands and we literally cannot source skilled Irish staff so recruit abroad

Every week I get approached about new jobs
There are 5000 vacancies in IT at the moment in Dublin

ollkiller

beejee wrote: »

Wealthy foreigners pushing Irish people out of the most productive areas.

.

Unless you're planning on rewriting the rules of economics or overturning capitalism areas that are most productive attract the best talent. From all over. That's never gonna change.

Wildly Boaring

beejee wrote: »

It's cannibalism to me.

"hey, we can solve our problems if we push ourselves out of existence!"

It's a chicken-hearted non-solution. But people keep buying it so far, let's see how long it lasts.

So in your opinion do we
Breed our way out of the pension problem
Or
Euthanise our way out of our pension problem

beejee

corner of hells wrote: »

A pincer move by high earning foreigners and low earning foreigners, some sort of concerted effort ?
Why do they want to wreck society?

It's not a concerted effort, it's simply the result of zero forethought.

beejee

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

So in your opinion do we
Breed our way out of the pension problem
Or
Euthanise our way out of our pension problem

Problems (should!) are easily and efficiently described.

Solutions are very complicated.

When a person can't even recognise a problem... What can you do?

FreeThePants

Stheno wrote: »

Eh sorry I'm not a gigantic ginormous

So much better than what he said!

Stheno

beejee wrote: »

Problems (should!) are easily and efficiently described.

Solutions are very complicated.

When a person can't even recognise a problem... What can you do?

You don't seem to understand the op it was twofold.
1 docklands renters earn an average of 127k a year and pay high rents I've colleagues

I work in docklands and wouldn't live there if you paid me
2 immigration welfare scams are costing us

Completely separate points.

Tell me what do you work at?

Pauliedragon

FreeThePants wrote: »

I've been an immigrant in other countries and had people rant and rave about how awful immigrants are to me in those countries. But they were complaining to me as if I were a like minded countryman of theirs, not an immigrant myself. I have on more than one occasion been corrected after telling someone I am an immigrant myself, to tell me I am an 'expat' (a term I really, really hate).

I always have to wonder how much both of these have to do with my being white, and from an English speaking western nation.

I've gotten that 100 times aswell. "ah you're Irish you don't count" was a common response when I pointed out I was an immigrant.