75 and cant access pension

sisters

My father took out a private pension with Irish Life in 1989. When he reached retirement age, he was allowed to withdraw a substantial amount but not the whole pension. Instead he is given €77 weekly and is not allowed withdraw the remainder of €17,000.
How can they do this? He is 75 years of age and still forced to work as he is not allowed to access his money. Is this actually legal? Are there hardship cases where exceptions are made for genuine cases? Any advice on this would be great!

Bubbaclaus

Sounds like the standard AMRF rules to me.

What's he getting per week when you include State Pension?

Heres Johnny

no

sisters wrote: »

My father took out a private pension with Irish Life in 1989. When he reached retirement age, he was allowed to withdraw a substantial amount but not the whole pension. Instead he is given €77 weekly and is not allowed withdraw the remainder of €17,000.
How can they do this? He is 75 years of age and still forced to work as he is not allowed to access his money. Is this actually legal? Are there hardship cases where exceptions are made for genuine cases? Any advice on this would be great!

It sounds like your father has what is known as an annuity, an income for life. In this case its a small income of approx 4000 a year. If your father lives 10 more years that 17,000 will pay out 40,000.

If that's not enough to live on (including state pension he should be getting about 16-17k a year in pensions) he would probably run down the 17,000 with Irish life very quickly, then he would be down to just the state pension.
That's the argument for annuities, they are designed to last the lifetime of the recipient.

Are you sure then numbers are correct though?
17k generating 4k a year??

sisters

I dont know

hes getting 77 euro plus state pension whatever that is. He is working in construction . leaving his home at 4am to get to work and back at 7pm . I think it's very hard on him at this stage of his life

sisters

sisters wrote: »

My father took out a private pension with Irish Life in 1989. When he reached retirement age, he was allowed to withdraw a substantial amount but not the whole pension. Instead he is given €77 weekly and is not allowed withdraw the remainder of €17,000.
How can they do this? He is 75 years of age and still forced to work as he is not allowed to access his money. Is this actually legal? Are there hardship cases where exceptions are made for genuine cases? Any advice on this would be great!

He’s not forced to work. He chooses to. He’s getting the amount agreed when he took out the policy.

Johnny Sausage

no

Deleted User wrote: »

He’s getting the amount agreed when he took out the policy.

woah woah woah..

dont let facts get in the way here

sisters

sisters wrote: »

hes getting 77 euro plus state pension whatever that is. He is working in construction . leaving his home at 4am to get to work and back at 7pm . I think it's very hard on him at this stage of his life

What are his outgoings?

I'd manage away grand on the contributory state pension +€77/week if I didn't have a mortgage and didn't want to save a fair whack.

Salary Negotiator

no

sisters wrote: »

hes getting 77 euro plus state pension whatever that is. He is working in construction . leaving his home at 4am to get to work and back at 7pm . I think it's very hard on him at this stage of his life

Have you asked him why he's working? With the state pension and his private pension he has an income of €325 per week.

He must have significant outgoings if this is not enough to cover his living expenses.

daheff

absolutely not

maybe have a look at the documentation for the contract he entered into. what product has he bought exactly?

no pension that I know of will let you withdraw the whole thing on retirement. its usually a certain % of the pot (limited to about 200k iirc).


Is he getting the full old age pension?

endacl

no

I voted, but I’m not sure why. It’s not as if this is a matter of opinion! The only correct response is ‘yes’.

Heres Johnny

no

sisters wrote: »

hes getting 77 euro plus state pension whatever that is. He is working in construction . leaving his home at 4am to get to work and back at 7pm . I think it's very hard on him at this stage of his life

You are correct, that is very tough on a 75 year old man, does he definitely not want to work?

But how long will his 17k last him though if he cashes it in? Not very long I would guess. He will then be down 77 euro a week when that is spent

Sorry to use this as an example, but I used to work in financial services selling pesnions and this is exactly why everyone should be planning retirement a long way out...............you want somwhere between 50% and 75% of your pre retirement income for after you retire

Mrs OBumble

no

He IS accessing the pension: he is getting €77 a week from it!

mbradso2003

The pensions rules at that stage would have been lump sum (calculated using salary and service) and balance paid as an annuity.

I would deal with pensioners on a lot less than €77 per week.

There are couple of triviality options now main one is where balance after lump sum is less than €30k, this can be taken as taxable lump sum subject to certain conditions regarding other pension benefits. There are also AMRF/ARF options which give greater flexibility.

The above threshold was €20k up to last year.

Not clear when your dad retired and what type of pension he had but you could ask why this option wasnt offered.

Although €4k p.a. is decent value for €17k, so this may be best option.

sisters

I dont know

I know he's getting 77 euro per week but if he would like to withdraw a few thousand or the lump sum he cant. That's what I was trying to get across.

sisters

I dont know

He actually enjoys working but I think he'd prefer to be doing 2 or 3 days at this stage of his life instead of 5 and leaving the house so early in the morning and returning late.

DublinWriter

sisters wrote: »

I know he's getting 77 euro per week but if he would like to withdraw a few thousand or the lump sum he cant. That's what I was trying to get across.

Because he sold the capital to buy annuities.

If you think his story is bad? The ping-pong playing Gen-X'ers are going to get a rude awakening in 30-40 years.

sisters

I dont know

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Have you asked him why he's working? With the state pension and his private pension he has an income of €325 per week.

He must have significant outgoings if this is not enough to cover his living expenses.

yes he would have a fair few outgoings. My mam gets nothing and he would support her too. His bills, car fuel etc I guess. doesn't leave much for leisure activities

micar

I work for a life assurance company which is not irish life

I don't think you understand the type of policy your dad has.

He needs to contact Irish Life themselves and discuss what he has.

He might have had a personal pension. At retirement he took 25% tax free cash and used the balance to purchase an annuity.

An annuity is an income for life. You cannot simply encash the annuity.

Irish Life have done nothing wrong here.

I reckon he's getting €77 pet month which based on €17k purchase price is about 5%-6% per annum which for a male age 65 seems right.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

no

Are you saying he has received €77 per week for the past 10 years, on foot of that €17,000?

That's over €40,000 to date and it's ongoing.

return guide

no

sisters wrote: »

I know he's getting 77 euro per week but if he would like to withdraw a few thousand or the lump sum he cant. That's what I was trying to get across.

He has withdrawn his maximum lump sum at the start of the pension. The rest of the fund is to fund a weekly/monthly payment i.e. pension. They are the rules and this would have been explained to him.
May I ask if he has worked in construction pre retirement age? I did and realised quite early that the industry pension scheme was quite bad and nothing was explained as to were the payments were going etc.
There is nothing illegal, quite the opposite it is the norm

bilbot79

no

These figures don't add up. Mary Lou, is that you?

micar

DublinWriter wrote: »

Because he sold the capital to buy annuities.

If you think his story is bad? The ping-pong playing Gen-X'ers are going to get a rude awakening in 30-40 years.

Annuity rates are very poor now. Vast majority are investing in AMRF / ARFs

Padre_Pio

no

sisters wrote: »

He actually enjoys working but I think he'd prefer to be doing 2 or 3 days at this stage of his life instead of 5 and leaving the house so early in the morning and returning late.

None of this adds up.

He gets 77 a week plus state pension.
In addition he needs to work 60 hours a week to maintain his lifestyle.

That man is living well beyond his means if he can't afford to cut down to 2 or 3 days work. He'd probably burn through a few thousand quick enough and be far worse off.

AulWan

sisters wrote: »

My mam gets nothing and he would support her too.

Why does your mother have no income?

Is she old enough for a (non)contributory old age pension in her own right, or has your father checked if he can claim for her as a dependant?

TheBeach

Yes, why is your mother not entitled to apply as a qualified adult on his pension?

Jim2007

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

woah woah woah..

dont let facts get in the way here

And those would be what exactly???

micar

OP ..... how about you log a complaint, let Irish Life respond.

If your still not happy, go to the financial services and pensions ombudsmen.

Jim2007

sisters wrote: »

hes getting 77 euro plus state pension whatever that is. He is working in construction . leaving his home at 4am to get to work and back at 7pm . I think it's very hard on him at this stage of his life

His personal circumstances does not entitle him to more that everyone else, why would it???

Even if he was able to get his hands on the cash I don't see how it would help other than for a year or two. At the moment he has €77 + state pension + wages.. This does not seem to be a sustainable situation regardless of getting his hands on the 17k

Johnny Sausage

no

Jim2007 wrote: »

And those would be what exactly???

He’s getting the amount agreed when he took out the policy

Which possibly increased at an escalation rate or with cpi etc

Mrs OBumble

no

sisters wrote: »

He actually enjoys working but I think he'd prefer to be doing 2 or 3 days at this stage of his life instead of 5 and leaving the house so early in the morning and returning late.

Ahh ... so this is all about what YOU think should be happening, rather than what he's choosing to do.

The tax regime in this country means that someone who works 5 days a week actually gets very little more than someone who works only 3 days a week (unless they're earning peanuts). So I'd guess that your father is doing it to keep active and out of your mother's hair, rather than for the money.

You definitely should educate yourself about how pensions work, so that you can plan your own retirement income. A starting point is to note that they're not at all like bank accounts: you cannot make "withdrawals", instead you (may) take a lump sum at a certain time, and then regular payments until death.

splinter65

If your dad has :
€77 private pension +
€248.30 state pension then your mother( I’m assuming she’s over 66) is entitled to €222.50 as his dependent (assuming her savings are less then €20000) why isn’t she applying for this?
If he wasn’t going to work and their
Savings are less then €58000 then they’d have the Fuel Allowance at €24.50 per week.
They also have €35 per month electricity allowance and a free tv license and a medical card.
Your father is not being forced to work he is choosing to work.

Galway56736

no

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You definitely should educate yourself about how pensions work, so that you can plan your own retirement income. A starting point is to note that they're not at all like bank accounts: you cannot make "withdrawals", instead you (may) take a lump sum at a certain time, and then regular payments until death.

You should also get a little education on pensions... what you've described is one option (annuity route).

An alternative option would be to take a lump sum and drawdown the balance as you see fit.

So you can make withdrawals if its setup that way.

sisters

I dont know

sisters wrote: »

My father took out a private pension with Irish Life in 1989. When he reached retirement age, he was allowed to withdraw a substantial amount but not the whole pension. Instead he is given €77 weekly and is not allowed withdraw the remainder of €17,000.
How can they do this? He is 75 years of age and still forced to work as he is not allowed to access his money. Is this actually legal? Are there hardship cases where exceptions are made for genuine cases? Any advice on this would be great!

My apologies. My father receives €77 per month from the irish life pension and he also receives the state pension. I originally wrote €77 weekly but I wish to correct it as my father informs me that it's €77 per month not week.

splinter65

sisters wrote: »

My apologies. My father receives €77 per month from the irish life pension and he also receives the state pension. I originally wrote €77 weekly but I wish to correct it as my father informs me that it's €77 per month not week.

Don’t worry about that sure we all make mistakes. You can advise your father that he should apply to Sligo to have your mother considered his dependent adult.

Bob Harris

77 a week certainly seemed generous off 17k. 77 per month is more like it.

sisters

I dont know

return guide wrote: »

He has withdrawn his maximum lump sum at the start of the pension. The rest of the fund is to fund a weekly/monthly payment i.e. pension. They are the rules and this would have been explained to him.
May I ask if he has worked in construction pre retirement age? I did and realised quite early that the industry pension scheme was quite bad and nothing was explained as to were the payments were going etc.
There is nothing illegal, quite the opposite it is the norm

yes he has worked in construction all his life. sorry I misunderstood, its 77 euro a month he receives not weekly. Thanks for your input it has been a great help.
I know nothing about pensions and never think of what might happen in the future, Im more of a live in the moment kinda person. So I get it that its the norm for these type of pension funds

sisters

I dont know

bilbot79 wrote: »

These figures don't add up. Mary Lou, is that you?

Yes

sisters

I dont know

Deleted User wrote: »

He’s not forced to work. He chooses to. He’s getting the amount agreed when he took out the policy.

well if you cant afford to get buy on your weekly pension then you are forced to continue working at 75 . Its hardly a choice. At his age he should be taking it easy and enjoying his golden years.

sisters

I dont know

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh ... so this is all about what YOU think should be happening, rather than what he's choosing to do.

The tax regime in this country means that someone who works 5 days a week actually gets very little more than someone who works only 3 days a week (unless they're earning peanuts). So I'd guess that your father is doing it to keep active and out of your mother's hair, rather than for the money.

You definitely should educate yourself about how pensions work, so that you can plan your own retirement income. A starting point is to note that they're not at all like bank accounts: you cannot make "withdrawals", instead you (may) take a lump sum at a certain time, and then regular payments until death.

why don't you get down of your high horse Mrs Bumble and educate yourself about pensions too instead of pontificating and spouting ****e in your condescending texts. Learn to communicate with others without being so high and mighty.

Fol20

no

Hey OP, a lot people live in the moment however when it comes to your retirement in many moons time, your situation could be more dire than your dads if you dont have a pension and depend on the government. Right now we have a pension time bomb looming. Right now we have 5 workers for every pensioner. People are living longer and having less children. Our lovely government have no great forsight and are also living in the moment paying for pensions with current tax payers money with no money left in reserve. In 20/30 tears time, there will only be 2 workers for every pensioner. This will put a massive strain on our government finances which is already beign seen right now. in 2007, pensions costed around 5billion, now they are around 8billion and this will continue to grow.

I would highly highly recommend researching your own personal situation as i would worry for the future.

sisters

I dont know

sisters wrote: »

well if you cant afford to get buy on your weekly pension then you are forced to continue working at 75 . Its hardly a choice. At his age he should be taking it easy and enjoying his golden years.

Why is your mother not getting a pension? Or why is he not claiming it for her?
How much do you feel he needs to have per week to live?

Mrs OBumble

no

Galway56736 wrote: »

You should also get a little education on pensions... what you've described is one option (annuity route).

An alternative option would be to take a lump sum and drawdown the balance as you see fit.

So you can make withdrawals if its setup that way.

I have three different pensions, due to job changes. And I considered several others when I was choosing my last one.

None of them allow withdrawal of capital apart from one lump sum at retirement.


Frankly I think the OP needs to butt out of their parents financial affairs.

Jim2007

sisters wrote: »

well if you cant afford to get buy on your weekly pension then you are forced to continue working at 75 . Its hardly a choice. At his age he should be taking it easy and enjoying his golden years.

This is simple ridiculous, he is actually on more that most retried people, there must be a lot more to this story that we're being told. Or perhaps you are being told as well.

Addle

Off topic, but what kind of work is he doing on site? He must be in great shape.

Jim2007

Jim2007 wrote: »

This is simple ridiculous, he is actually on more that most retried people, there must be a lot more to this story that we're being told. Or perhaps you are being told as well.

I woundnt day thats accurate. I know quite a few people paying tax at the higher rate in their pension, some who retired mid 50’s too.

bilbot79

no

Alexander Fancy Warfare wrote: »

I woundnt day thats accurate. I know quite a few people paying tax at the higher rate in their pension, some who retired mid 50’s too.

If you do tight by your pension early enough you can easily retire at 60 and likely pay the higher rate too.

bilbot79

bilbot79 wrote: »

If you do tight by your pension early enough you can easily retire at 60 and likely pay the higher rate too.

My pension is not a healthy thing compared to the people I’m talking about.

Galway56736

no

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I have three different pensions, due to job changes. And I considered several others when I was choosing my last one.

None of them allow withdrawal of capital apart from one lump sum at retirement.


Frankly I think the OP needs to butt out of their parents financial affairs.

So are you saying I’m wrong or are you admitting to a lack of knowledge?

Guess what??? It’s not the first one 😂

Heres Johnny

no

Galway56736 wrote: »

So are you saying I’m wrong or are you admitting to a lack of knowledge?

Guess what??? It’s not the first one 😂

When Mrs O Bumble says she has 3 pensions I believe she means she has 3 separate retirement savings plans and is yet to retire. A pension is an income that pays out, a retirement savings plan is something you pay into.

You were talking about ARFs, and you are quite correct in everything you have said.

Galway56736

no

Heres Johnny wrote: »

When Mrs O Bumble says she has 3 pensions I believe she means she has 3 separate retirement savings plans and is yet to retire. A pension is an income that pays out, a retirement savings plan is something you pay into.

You were talking about ARFs, and you are quite correct in everything you have said.

Agreed... it was her condescending tone telling the OP to educate themselves on pensions while at the same time spouting incorrect information that was irritating

sisters

I dont know

Addle wrote: »

Off topic, but what kind of work is he doing on site? He must be in great shape.

He is a brick layer and driver (haulage)