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Combined lnb issue

  • 04-02-2020 1:31pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭


    Just replaced my old lnb with a combined quad lnb.

    Satellite channels are showing up fine, but the terrestrial channels are not. Rescan get me nothing.

    Steps taken so far

    Disconnect old lnb
    Disconnect diplexer
    Connect aerial to new lnb
    Connect cables from TV to lnb.
    Install new lnb on dish

    Is there something I'm missing here?

    The new lnb I'm using is an Inverto Pro Quad Terrestrial 40mm lnb

    Thanks in advance


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    I see you have disconnected a diplexer, how is the terrestrial split from the satellite feed cable at the TV end?

    Someone did mention previously there can be a good signal drop looping-thru that LNB, how is terrestrial signal strength/quality before the loop-thru?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    The Cush wrote: »
    I see you have disconnected a diplexer, how is the terrestrial split from the satellite feed cable at the TV end?

    Someone did mention previously there can be a good signal drop looping-thru that LNB, how is terrestrial signal strength/quality before the loop-thru?

    Split with a diplexer at TV end.

    Signal was 100% prior to switching


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    cletus wrote: »
    Signal was 100% prior to switching

    Strength and/or quality?

    Reconnect the aerial feed directly to incoming cable and check the figures via the TVs own built-in meter. Then check the figures when you reconnect the aerial to the LNB.

    Could also be an internal LNB fault.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    The Cush wrote: »
    Strength and/or quality?

    Reconnect the aerial feed directly to incoming cable and check the figures via the TVs own built-in meter. Then check the figures when you reconnect the aerial to the LNB.

    Could also be an internal LNB fault.

    Reconnected through original diplexer
    Signal Level 38%
    Signal Quality 100%


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭gar


    I have the same LNB.
    Double check the shielding on the cables going to and from the aerial to the LNB that they are not touching the central wire on the cable. Even a single strand.
    This is what happened me originally.
    Then also check the same for cable going from LNB to diplexer and again diplexer to tv/stb.

    The signal level is quite low. Can the direction of the aerial be adjusted? You pointing at the right transmitter?

    In my mothers setup her signal dropped out as the connection on the aerial had corroded a bit, brushed it off with an old toothbrush and all was good again.

    Want to try some of those things?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    cletus wrote: »
    Reconnected through original diplexer
    Signal Level 38%
    Signal Quality 100%

    As said, the signal level is quite low, looping it through the LNB will knock it back further. According to the specs terrestrial loss through the LNB is high, so that may be your problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    The Cush wrote: »
    As said, the signal level is quite low, looping it through the LNB will knock it back further. According to the specs terrestrial loss through the LNB is high, so that may be your problem.

    Thank you very much. Played around with the aerial, managed to get figures of 42 and 100 using the original setup.

    Reconnected to the new lnb, getting readings of 18 and 83, channels seem to be watchable


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    cletus wrote: »
    Thank you very much. Played around with the aerial, managed to get figures of 42 and 100 using the original setup.

    Reconnected to the new lnb, getting readings of 18 and 83, channels seem to be watchable

    Still very low, could lead to picture breakup in certain conditions. What type of aerial are you using?

    Is it the correct aerial for your transmitter?
    What transmitter are you pointing at?
    Would moving the aerial higher improve the signal levels?
    Would a hi-gain aerial improve the signal levels?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    The Cush wrote: »
    Still very low, could lead to picture breakup in certain conditions. What type of aerial are you using?

    Is it the correct aerial for your transmitter?
    What transmitter are you pointing at?
    Would moving the aerial higher improve the signal levels?
    Would a hi-gain aerial improve the signal levels?

    Spoke too soon. Back to no signal.

    To answer your questions in order;

    No idea, it's the aerial that was initially installed. How would I check?

    I live in Rathangan, Co. Kildare, but no idea which transmitter. How would I know or check?

    No idea, but not easy to try

    Again, not sure


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    cletus wrote: »
    I live in Rathangan, Co. Kildare, but no idea which transmitter. How would I know or check?

    Check here - https://www.saorview.ie/en/get/coverage

    Kippure I assume. The aerial may be for the older frequencies which are switching off on March 4th next.

    New frequencies are running in conjunction with the old ones at the moment.

    A Group A red tip aerial is recommended for Kippure now, e.g. https://www.freetv.ie/red-group-a-uhf-aerial/. If located correctly and pointing at the transmitter it should pull in a good enough signal that distance from Kippure to overcome the loss interted by the LNB.

    This is a hi-gain aerial - https://www.blake-uk.com/dmx-high-gain/688-688-dmx-52-element-high-gain-aerial-blake-aerials.html#/1-aerial_group-a/8-aerialpackaging-bagged/10-aerial_connection-f_type


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    Cush, I appreciate the time and advice you've offered to me so far.

    I checked the Fairview link. Initially, it gives Kippure as my transmitter, but on delving into the signal change section of the website, it seems to suggest Kilduff. I'll ring them later and confirm

    If I could press your helpful nature a little more, the aerial I currently have is this
    https://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Attic-and-Outdoor-digital-tv-aerial.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAyeTxBRBvEiwAuM8dncAcEl7X7R-ErH8DgRYTKu2Jj05G86ACAksrtQtGtCW5cHtFzh2NlBoCVdoQAvD_BwE


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭Elvis Hammond


    cletus wrote: »
    ... Initially, it gives Kippure as my transmitter, but on delving into the signal change section of the website, it seems to suggest Kilduff. I'll ring them later and confirm

    The only way to be sure of the best transmitter is to go to your home & test the possibilities.

    Mt. Leinster would be another one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    The initial installation was done professionally, so I'd assume they picked the most appropriate transmitter.

    As I'm in work I can't go out and measure directly, but the aerial would seem to be pointing in the general direction of Kilduff, assuming the front of the aerials the narrower end with the blue plastic cap


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    cletus wrote: »
    I checked the Fairview link. Initially, it gives Kippure as my transmitter, but on delving into the signal change section of the website, it seems to suggest Kilduff. I'll ring them later and confirm

    If I could press your helpful nature a little more, the aerial I currently have is this https://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Attic-and-Outdoor-digital-tv-aerial.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAyeTxBRBvEiwAuM8dncAcEl7X7R-ErH8DgRYTKu2Jj05G86ACAksrtQtGtCW5cHtFzh2NlBoCVdoQAvD_BwE
    cletus wrote: »
    The initial installation was done professionally, so I'd assume they picked the most appropriate transmitter.

    As I'm in work I can't go out and measure directly, but the aerial would seem to be pointing in the general direction of Kilduff, assuming the front of the aerials the narrower end with the blue plastic cap

    The Saorview coverage checker only gives 1 recommended transmitter for any location in a search when the area may have coverage from a number of sites but doesn't take into account where you might mount the aerial or local obstructions. I believe coverage prediction is based on an aerial located 10m above ground level.

    Your general location appear to be covered by Kippure, Mt Leinster and Kilduff. The frequencies from all these sites fall within the Group A aerial frequency range, UHF 21-37.

    Your aerial is an old full wideband mini log-periodic aerial which now overlaps much of the mobile broadband frequencies, gain wouldn't be the best at the lower range of your local transmitters.

    Where is current aerial mounted - above roof level, gable end, etc.?
    Ideally the aerial should be above roof level, pointing in the direction of your best transmitter with no local obstructions..

    I would test a basic Group A contract aerial for each transmitter, directly to the TV without any diplexers and see which gives the best possible signal before refitting diplexers/LNB/etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    The picture below shows the location of the aerial. Rising it above the roof level to test would not be easily done.

    I might just pick up one of those aerials you linked to, and try get a good reception before attaching to the lnb, as you suggest.

    Thanks for all your help

    501955.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭Elvis Hammond


    I don't think you'd get any worthwhile improvement with the contract aerial, & you couldn't really fit anything higher gain to that installation.

    I'd guess it's not the first time you've had reception problems?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    I don't think you'd get any worthwhile improvement with the contract aerial, & you couldn't really fit anything higher gain to that installation.

    I'd guess it's not the first time you've had reception problems?

    Never had an issue up until I put in this new lnb


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    cletus wrote: »
    Never had an issue up until I put in this new lnb

    I agree with the previous comments, a new aerial located there won't improve the signal figures to any extent. Too low and stuck against that wall.

    Your previous figures indicate the signal was always borderline and falls completely over once looped through the LNB.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    What can I do to rectify the issue


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭keepalive213


    Is the LNB an 'inverto' with terrestrial input?
    Twice I have found them prone to some kind of interference, both times there was very strong mobile broadband (3) in the vicinity, over 120mbps but I could not say for sure if that was the reason. Terr. Channels would have been 44 and 47


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    Is the LNB an 'inverto' with terrestrial input?
    Twice I have found them prone to some kind of interference, both times there was very strong mobile broadband (3) in the vicinity, over 120mbps but I could not say for sure if that was the reason. Terr. Channels would have been 44 and 47

    It is an Inverto, yed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭keepalive213


    A lot of new aerials have filters built in to stop interference from other radio signals, I dont think your aerial has.
    My advice is to get a professional to look at it and sort it out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    A lot of new aerials have filters built in to stop interference from other radio signals, I dont think your aerial has.
    My advice is to get a professional to look at it and sort it out.

    His problem isn't interference but lack of adequate signal due to the positioning of the aerial.
    cletus wrote: »
    What can I do to rectify the issue

    Looking at the aerial direction I wonder if rotating the aerial towards Kippure or Mt Leinster would move it away from that wall and provide a clearer line of sight, might be worth testing before relocating the aerial? Looking at the coverage map Kippure looks much closer to you than Kilduff.

    If that doesn't work and I couldn't increase the aerial height, I'd move the aerial forward and around the corner to allow a clear forward line of sight in the direction of the Kilduff transmitter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 339 ✭✭Booms


    Is there an amplifier in the LNB that needs power for the terrestrial signal?

    If your tV/Set Box has a 5V out for an amplifier, try turning that on, maybe.

    (I had a similar situation with a combiner LNB, can't rememeber the name, not an Inverto, and switching the 5V line power on fixed it. I think! At least have had no problems since)

    Edit: Just reread through the thread, and have seen the original signal was very low, so above probbaly doesn't apply.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Booms wrote: »
    Is there an amplifier in the LNB that needs power for the terrestrial signal?

    No internal amp and I'm not sure if a masthead amp could be powered via the LNB.

    https://www.inverto.tv/lnb/72/quad-terrestrial-40mm-lnb


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭Elvis Hammond


    cletus wrote: »
    What can I do to rectify the issue

    I'd try moving the aerial away from the dish anyway, even by dropping it a bit.

    Comparing its direction with the dish, I'd say it's pointed at Mt. Leinster.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Comparing its direction with the dish, I'd say it's pointed at Mt. Leinster.

    I agree, initially the easiest option IMO would be to rotate the aerial towards Kippure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    I'm just coming back to this now. Had a look at the direction for Kippure, and it looks to me like I'll be pointing directly at the next door neighbour's house.

    Is putting the aerial on a pole attached to the chimney an option.

    Alternatively, is there another option to achieve my original plan, i.e. combining the two signals through one device to feed three TV's in the house


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    cletus wrote: »
    Is putting the aerial on a pole attached to the chimney an option.

    Alternatively, is there another option to achieve my original plan, i.e. combining the two signals through one device to feed three TV's in the house

    Yes, chimney is a good option, good height.

    If you're feeding 3 TV points around the house you may require an amp to split and distribute the Saorview signal to the various points especially if you decide to loop the aerial feed through the LNB again.

    Looking at your dish pic I see 3 cables entering the house, are these 3 sat feeds to the 3 TV points?

    An option is to distribute satellite and terrestrial signals from a unit called a multiswitch located inside your house. It requires 4 feed from the dish and the aerial feed. The multiswitch combines the aerial feed with each of the sat feeds to the TV points where it can be split again with a splitter. Example of an 8 output multiswitch here that would be compatible with your quad LNB - https://www.freetv.ie/5x8-satellite-multiswitch/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭cletus


    The Cush wrote: »
    Yes, chimney is a good option, good height.

    If you're feeding 3 TV points around the house you may require an amp to split and distribute the Saorview signal to the various points especially if you decide to loop the aerial feed through the LNB again.

    Looking at your dish pic I see 3 cables entering the house, are these 3 sat feeds to the 3 TV points?

    An option is to distribute satellite and terrestrial signals from a unit called a multiswitch located inside your house. It requires 4 feed from the dish and the aerial feed. The multiswitch combines the aerial feed with each of the sat feeds to the TV points where it can be split again with a splitter. Example of an 8 output multiswitch here that would be compatible with your quad LNB - https://www.freetv.ie/5x8-satellite-multiswitch/

    They are three sat feeds to the TV. Up until this point, I had one TV, so used a diplexer at the satellite end to join, and another to split at the TV end. Never had any issue with the aerial signal strength (even though it was 38%)

    The entire purpose of this new lnb was to not have three different diplexers at the satellite end, assuming that was even possible.

    Are there cheaper versions of the switch you linked to? I'll only be running 3 TVs, won't be adding more (definitely not 8), and would such a switch negate the signal drop I'm experiencing with the lnb?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    cletus wrote: »
    Are there cheaper versions of the switch you linked to? I'll only be running 3 TVs, won't be adding more (definitely not 8), and would such a switch negate the signal drop I'm experiencing with the lnb?

    I was searching for a 5x4 multiswitch (4 outputs) but they now appear to be scarce, a reputable brand such as Whyte, EMP, Triax, etc. would be recommended.

    With the multiswitch you would bypass the LNB and run the aerial feed direct. The multiswitch doesn't have an internal amp and if you were experiencing Saorview signal issues due to the low signal level an amp before the multiswitch would be required or move the aerial to the chimney to improve reception.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    cletus wrote: »
    They are three sat feeds to the TV. Up until this point, I had one TV, so used a diplexer at the satellite end to join, and another to split at the TV end. Never had any issue with the aerial signal strength (even though it was 38%)

    The entire purpose of this new lnb was to not have three different diplexers at the satellite end, assuming that was even possible.

    A cheaper option if a little untidy would be to run the aerial feed direct to a distribution amp and feed each output of the amp to a diplexer where you would combine each satellite feed to each TV point.


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