Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

handlemaster

We have a party here that's core voter is lower income. With that the policies are driven I.e. the richer middle class will pay for everything and the taxes will continue to tumble in. Let's look at northern Ireland 21 years under their control. Last year the UK gave 10 billion in prop up money. That's 10 billion for 1.5million people approx, every year the British public pay for Northern Ireland. Could Sinn fein actually manage a much larger country with a different majority tax payer ? While we all have a choice on who we vote for it's a case of careful what you want , there are no free lunches

pjohnson

Cant be worse than FG tbf.

Yurt2

handlemaster wrote: »

We have a party here that's core voter is lower income. With that the policies are driven I.e. the richer middle class will pay for everything and the taxes will continue to tumble in. Let's look at northern Ireland 21 years under their control. Last year the UK gave 10 billion in prop up money. That's 10 billion for 1.5million people approx, every year the British public pay for Northern Ireland. Could Sinn fein actually manage a much larger country with a different majority tax payer ? While we all have a choice on who we vote for it's a case of careful what you want , there are no free lunches

Their core vote now extends to university educated young people that cant access affordable housing. FG have gifted them an entirely new voter base. Eoin O'Broin's housing policy actually isn't all that bad when you dig into it. It's not a free-house for all the chizzlers setup - it's more or less the Vienna housing model tweaked to an Irish context. How that's worse than Eoghan Murphy's 'the morket will sort it out, yaw' policy, I'm not sure.

As to whether they can run a country, well, FG and FF's governance has been various shades of sh*t, so let's find out.

topmanamillion

handlemaster wrote: »

. Let's look at northern Ireland 21 years under their control. Last year the UK gave 10 billion in prop up money. That's 10 billion for 1.5million people approx, every year the British public pay for Northern Ireland.

The North clearly isn't under their control. The budget is set by Westminster so that's where the power lies. Stormont is a glorified county council.

Power sharing and Londons indifference to it means the radical economic reform the North needs will never happen.

That Westminster keeps throwing bad money after good to prop up a failed statelet is an entirely separate issue. And you're right it is something British people should be angry about.
I'd be the first to hammer SF for a lot of things but I fail to see how that's their fault.

As for the the title of the thread. Ya, sure why not. The fact FF are one of/the biggest party in the country again after leading the country to the point where we were days from there being no money in ATMS and nothing to pay public servant wages, I fail to see why anyone would be afraid of Sinn Fein having a crack at it.
Only for "something, something, IRA" logic that's been spoon fed to them by Denis O'Brien and politicians.

2011

They don’t understand economics. Any time Mary is questioned on the affordability of SF proposals she fails to answer it sufficiently. I would love to get a state pension at 65 but the money simply isn’t there. I agree with her proposal to increase vacant property tax and I like their approach to the insurance crises. I also understand people’s frustration at the current housing / rent situation but SF would run the country into the ground.

Markcheese

pjohnson wrote: »

Cant be worse than FG tbf.

Okay I'll go for the pantomime answer .. oh yes they could ...

Eggs For Dinner

State cars to be replaced by JCBs

Larbre34

pjohnson wrote: »

Cant be worse than FG tbf.

Yeah. They could.

Yurt2

2011 wrote: »

They don’t understand economics. Any time Mary is questioned on the affordability of SF proposals she fails to answer it sufficiently. I would love to get a state pension at 65 but the money simply isn’t there. I agree with her proposal to increase vacant property tax and I like their approach to the insurance crises. I also understand people’s frustration at the current housing / rent situation but SF would run the country into the ground.

There's scant evidence that FF or FG are much better.


Think of it this way, we're reporting 6% GDP growth or thereabouts, and FG keeping on pointing at it. Why would a younger person or someone on lower wages give a hoot about that when their prospects of home ownership gets more distant and their quality of life dis-improves? In all honesty, why would they give a sh*t? You can't bank it, you can't apply for a mortgage with it and you can't pay your rent with it. Headline GDP growth doesn't butter parsnips for most people.



A decreasing amount of people feel the benefit of that 6% growth, FG & FF can't square that circle.

Fann Linn

After FG/FF.
Yep.

rn

They can indeed run a country... They should get a crack at health and housing. We'd learn a lot from seeing them in power. They would then be faced with trying to introduce all the radical solutions into systems that resist change.

On health, it's a basket case of vested interests with consultants holding the most power. SF are the complete opposite demographic to hospital consultants.

In housing, the building industry is pretty much at capacity, with economy at full employment. Will SF bring in the huge amount of cheap, foreign labour needed to do this huge public housing scheme they want to do.

topmanamillion

2011 wrote: »

They don’t understand economics. Any time Mary is questioned on the affordability of SF proposals she fails to answer it sufficiently. I would love to get a state pension at 65 but the money simply isn’t there. I agree with her proposal to increase vacant property tax and I like their approach to the insurance crises. I also understand people’s frustration at the current housing / rent situation but SF would run the country into the ground.

The money isn't there?
Pull the other one. The moneys there to turn down €12 billion from Apple. Along with tolerating the wastage in the top heavy managerial haven of a so called health service we have.

Ayone with 45 odd years of a working life has contributed enough in tax and pension contributions to be entitled to their pension.
Take it out of some where else. Plenty of other places but that's not as easy as pressing plus on a computer and upping the pension age.

Iscreamkone

pjohnson wrote: »

Cant be worse than FG tbf.

The economy is booming.
That will not happen under SF
Then where will they get the money to give their supporters

In fact there’s not enough money available now to pay for their leftie schemes

Yurt2

Iscreamkone wrote: »

The economy is booming.

If the economy booming sorted all ills then FG wouldn't be in trouble. A minority of people are feeling the benefit, how are you going to make the rest give a sh*t if the economy is booming?


Bill Clinton once famously quipped 'It's the economy stupid.' It's increasingly clear that's complete bunk, when quality of life declines and life fundamentals like securing somewhere to live, saving for a pension, raising a child etc become more difficult in a red-hot economy, something's wrong.

smelly sock

FG/FF are the parties who have rewarded the dead beats amlnd lay abouts. They are the parties who have made the middle income subsidise these wasters and also bail out the banks. FF/FG have made it profitable not to work. FF destroyed our economy.

So to hell with them.

Time for change

JohnnyFlash

pjohnson wrote: »

Cant be worse than FG tbf.

Oh it could.

smelly sock

Yurt! wrote: »

If the economy booming sorted all ills then FG wouldn't be in trouble. A minority of people are feeling the benefit, how are you going to make the rest give a sh*t if the economy is booming?


Bill Clinton once famously quipped 'It's the economy stupid.' It's increasingly clear that's complete bunk, when quality of life declines and life fundamentals like securing somewhere to live, saving for a pension, raising a child etc become more difficult in a red-hot economy, something's wrong.

And the ironic thing is that its the spongers from social economic deprived areas who will votes in SF. FF/FG are much more friendly to this crowd. They are doing really well in the current system. Biting the hand that feeds them.

Day Lewin

Give the man the Slean.

smelly sock

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Oh it could.

Not for the working man.

lawred2

2011 wrote: »

They don’t understand economics. Any time Mary is questioned on the affordability of SF proposals she fails to answer it sufficiently. I would love to get a state pension at 65 but the money simply isn’t there. I agree with her proposal to increase vacant property tax and I like their approach to the insurance crises. I also understand people’s frustration at the current housing / rent situation but SF would run the country into the ground.

Well FF have done that how many times now?

Colonel Claptrap

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

State cars to be replaced by JCBs

And blacked out vans.

Maewyn Succat

topmanamillion wrote: »

The money isn't there?
Pull the other one. The moneys there to turn down €12 billion from Apple. Along with tolerating the wastage in the top heavy managerial haven of a so called health service we have.

Ayone with 45 odd years of a working life has contributed enough in tax and pension contributions to be entitled to their pension.
Take it out of some where else. Plenty of other places but that's not as easy as pressing plus on a computer and upping the pension age.

How much of that €12 billion would Ireland actually get to keep do you think? Feel free to do a Sinn Fein and dodge the question if you don't want to answer..

Yurt2

smelly sock wrote: »

And the ironic thing is that its the spongers from social economic deprived areas who will votes in SF. FF/FG are much more friendly to this crowd. They are doing really well in the current system. Biting the hand that feeds them.

What percentage of people in Ireland are spongers? We have close to full employment, and there is natural churn included in the unemployment figures - i.e. people that are moving from one job to another and spend a month or two on the scratch.

The long term unemployed are not the problem with how the country are governed. I don't like that there are long-term unemployed, it's not desireable but you're overstating how many there are.

If your life isn't optimal, it's not because of Dessie and Charlene down in the flats.

Allinall

Yurt! wrote: »

Their core vote now extends to university educated young people that cant access affordable housing. FG have gifted them an entirely new voter base. Eoin O'Broin's housing policy actually isn't all that bad when you dig into it. It's not a free-house for all the chizzlers setup - it's more or less the Vienna housing model tweaked to an Irish context. How that's worse than Eoghan Murphy's 'the morket will sort it out, yaw' policy, I'm not sure.

As to whether they can run a country, well, FG and FF's governance has been various shades of sh*t, so let's find out.

That's a terrible indictment of our education system.

JohnnyFlash

smelly sock wrote: »

Not for the working man.

You live in a country that is 3rd in the UN Human Development Index, not Somalia. The ‘working man’ in Ireland has it better than about 7.3 billion people on the planet. Context, dude.

seamus

topmanamillion wrote: »

The money isn't there?

No.

Sinn Féin are talking about spending increases of €4.4bn per year over the next five years.

And proposing tax increases of €3.8bn per year.

Where's the other €600m going to come from?

smelly sock

2011 wrote: »

They don’t understand economics. Any time Mary is questioned on the affordability of SF proposals she fails to answer it sufficiently. I would love to get a state pension at 65 but the money simply isn’t there. I agree with her proposal to increase vacant property tax and I like their approach to the insurance crises. I also understand people’s frustration at the current housing / rent situation but SF would run the country into the ground.

FF ran the country off a cliff face. FG have continued to screw the ordinary working man and woman while propping up banks, investments funds etc.

Rents sky high
No chance of buying a house
At least 10000 homeless
Childcare through the roof
Hospital waiting times through the roof
Black and tan celebrations

Enough is enough.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

They've been sitting there on the sidelines, getting a great lesson in how NOT to run a country... They seem hungry and motivated to make changes. I like some of their policies - not all of them mind you.

I can't stomach voting the other shower back in. It's basically a vote for ineptitude and wastefulness... how can you reward that?

I'm prepared to give SF a chance, and see what they can do. And screw all the snobs in this country, that look down their nose at them! (nice added bonus :P)

Yurt2

Allinall wrote: »

That's a terrible indictment of our education system.

Yes, its the university system's fault that housing is unaffordable. Gold star.

Feisar

To quote that great SF/IRA recruiter, Margaret Thatcher — 'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.'

smelly sock

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You live in a country that is 3rd in the UN Human Development Index, not Somalia. The ‘working man’ in Ireland has it better than about 7.3 billion people on the planet. Context, dude.

Stats just dont paint a picture dude.

You are denying the housing crisis?

The healthcare crisis?

The mortgage arrears crisis?

Homeless at at least 10000.

Insurance costs are mental.

Mortgage interest rates sky high.

weldoninhio

pjohnson wrote: »

Cant be worse than FG tbf.

What a ridiculous statement. You'd swear Ireland was on its last legs

JohnnyFlash

They are promising the sun, the moon, and the stars, and this change thing people are so keen on. Yet if they got into power then they’d be faced with the realities of government - budgets, the national debt, people living longer and putting a strain on the health and welfare systems, the worldwide move towards people living in large cities, unions, EU directives, recessions etc.

Easy promise everything when you don’t have to implement it. That’s why the nihilist in me would like to see themselves and FF in power.

Uriel.

Yurt! wrote: »

What percentage of people in Ireland are spongers? We have close to full employment, and there is natural churn included in the unemployment figures - i.e. people that are moving from one job to another and spend a month or two on the scratch.

The long term unemployed are not the problem with how the country are governed. I don't like that there are long-term unemployed, it's not desireable but you're overstating how many there are.

If your life isn't optimal, it's not because of Dessie and Charlene down in the flats.

What way are those on illness and disability treated with regard to unemployment figures?

Is junkie John Paul or Sharon six kids before 24 classed as disabled, ill, unavailable for work or unemployed?

weldoninhio

topmanamillion wrote: »

The money isn't there?
Pull the other one. The moneys there to turn down €12 billion from Apple. Along with tolerating the wastage in the top heavy managerial haven of a so called health service we have.

Ayone with 45 odd years of a working life has contributed enough in tax and pension contributions to be entitled to their pension.
Take it out of some where else. Plenty of other places but that's not as easy as pressing plus on a computer and upping the pension age.

Should be stickied at this stage.

APPLE. DO. NOT. OWE. IRELAND. €12BN. OR. ANYWHERE. NEAR. THAT.

It's European profits that the EU want Ireland to collect on their behalf.

Yurt2

Uriel. wrote: »

What way are those on illness and disability treated with regard to unemployment figures?

Is junkie John Paul or Sharon six kids before 24 classed as disabled, ill, unavailable for work or unemployed?

You tell me. How big is the problem? I don't buy that people on disability are why some of problems identified in this thread exist.

And I'm not speaking in favour of people being on disability when they shouldn't. If you think it's a major problem that's causing your quality of life to suffer, state the scale of it so we can take a look at it. Anything else is conjecture.

imme

No.

Sinn Fein will not be running the country any time soon.

SF cannot believe their luck.

They've been losing elections in the south for the past 2 years, local, European, presidential.

It is a protest vote. No one believes they are capable of running the country.

Bryan Dobson,'s interview with Mary Lou was instructive.

When asked about the UK annual subvention to run Northern Ireland Mary Lou said that the money spent on the army in NI wouldn't be necessary when it becomes a part of an 'unpartitioned' Ireland.

So, no army for the north of Ireland, you couldn't make it up.

SF isn't running enough candidates to ensure that they're going to have the largest number of TD's in the next Dail.
It is the Greens in the local elections all over again. Top the poll, massive surplus and no running late.
Clever politics or no faith in yourself, Mary Lou herself doesn't even have a running mate, in an enlarged constituency.

Uriel.

Yurt! wrote: »

You tell me. How big is the problem? I don't buy that people on disability are why some of problems identified exist.

Do you know the answer to the question or not?

weldoninhio

smelly sock wrote: »

FG/FF are the parties who have rewarded the dead beats amlnd lay abouts. They are the parties who have made the middle income subsidise these wasters and also bail out the banks. FF/FG have made it profitable not to work. FF destroyed our economy.

So to hell with them.

Time for change

You know that SF want to raise the dole by €42 a week

Blanco100

can someone explain this vienna housing model that O'Broin wants to see implemented?

smelly sock

weldoninhio wrote: »

You know that SF want to raise the dole by €42 a week

Its grand. Sure we have full employment.

JohnnyFlash

Blanco100 wrote: »

can someone explain this vienna housing model that O'Broin wants to see implemented?

SF are going to build houses for 65k a pop and retrofit old ones for 5k a pop. That’s how good they are with money.

smelly sock

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

SF are going to build houses for 65k a pop and retrofit old ones for 5k a pop. That’s how good they are with money.

Worth giving them a vote and seeing if they can do it.

Feisar

weldoninhio wrote: »

Should be stickied at this stage.

APPLE. DO. NOT. OWE. IRELAND. €12BN. OR. ANYWHERE. NEAR. THAT.

It's European profits that the EU want Ireland to collect on their behalf.

Ah but it goes so well when yer shouting for yer forever home!

Cina

pjohnson wrote: »

Cant be worse than FG tbf.

They could be far worse.

Seeing as After Hours is largely made up of posters in the "stretched middle" bracket who generally despise the crazy welfare state Ireland has become - I wonder how everyone here will feel when SF tax us even more to funnel even more funds into social welfare, pensions, and social housing?

Fine Gael are sh*te but anyone who thinks FF or SF will do a better job than them "just cause they can't be worse like" should give their head a wee wobble.

JohnnyFlash

smelly sock wrote: »

Worth giving them a vote and seeing if they can do it.

Build a house for 65k? Wanna buy some magic beans?

gmisk

Blanco100 wrote: »

can someone explain this vienna housing model that O'Broin wants to see implemented?

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/dublin-turns-to-vienna-for-affordable-housing-solution-1.3852436
Lots of articles on it, would take a long time to implement anything similar here.
George Clarke visited one outside Vienna, pretty amazing

smelly sock

Just waiting for the ira to be brought up.

Feisar

smelly sock wrote: »

And the ironic thing is that its the spongers from social economic deprived areas who will votes in SF. FF/FG are much more friendly to this crowd. They are doing really well in the current system. Biting the hand that feeds them.

Agreed however their sense of entitlement knows no bounds. No one will ever be able to appease them.

Yurt2

Blanco100 wrote: »

can someone explain this vienna housing model that O'Broin wants to see implemented?

To give you the executive summary, a Land Development Agency directs the construction of housing units,rent and the amortization of the property is based upon construction costs and maintenance instead of market rate.

Apollinaris

Rents, high wages and knees would be capped.