The Fianna Fail front bench

Muahahaha

I was just thinking that in a few weeks time we could have a rake of new Fianna Fail ministers so went and looked up what might be in store for us. And to be honest its not a pretty picture, a rag tag bunch of misfits and political novices is probably the best way to describe it. A good few of them have never been seen or heard from over the last few years and apart from a handful of heavy hitters I couldnt put faces to a good few names. Like who the feck is Niamh Smyth? Never once heard or seen her on tv or radio yet in a few weeks time she could be our next Minister for Culture and the Arts.

Coalitions aside as things stand these are the candidates for the next Fianna Fail cabinet

Tanaiste & Minister for Rural Affairs- Dara Calleary
Minister for Finance- Michael 'I Love Milfs.com' McGrath
Minister for Justice- Jim o'Callaghan
Minister for Agriculture- Charlie McConalogue
Minister for Foreign Affairs- Sean Haughey
Minister for Health- Stephen Donnelly
Minister for Education-Thomas Byrne
Minister for Housing- Darragh o'Brien
Minister for Welfare- Willie o'Dea
Minister for Transport- Mark McSharry
Minister for Brexit- Lisa Chambers
Minister for Public Expenditure- Barry Cowen
Minister for Communications and Defence- Jack Chambers
Minister for Enterprise- Robert Troy
Minister for Children- Anne Rabbitte
Minister for Culture- Niamh Smyth
Minister for Mental Health- James Browne
Minister for Disability- Margaret Mahoney Murphy

And then you've got Dimmy Tooley and Billy Kelleher who would have been ministers until they got caught up in Votergate in the Dail. Michael Martin might rehabilitate them yet.

Must say the Fianna Fail front bench really doesnt inspire much confidence. Milfy McGrath as our next Minister for Finance actually frightens me. And if Jim o'Callaghan makes it to Justice then the barristers of the Law Library will be celebrating their man getting in and there wont be a snowballs chance in hell of seeing legal costs reducing or reforms coming anytime soon. And then the thought of sending the gormless Sean Haughey abroad to meet foreign leaders is not an easy one. Willie o'Dea in Welfare can only result in an extra fiver for everyone in the audience.

Good god, it really is a remarkably weak bench. I cant see a standout performer from any of them and quite a few are going to get found out. What is the electorate actually sleep walking into here?

James Brown

I don't think they'll get a comfortable lead if at all. Even with the free publicity provided by the confidence and supply, they've not really made the most of it. Tough to be giving out and supporting at the same time I'd imagine.

I use to see Willie O'Dea on an almost daily basis and I always got a fright when he turned the corner. Just reminded me.

Yurt2

That's a depressing enough line-up. Donnelly and O'Callaghan appear to have a brain residing in their skulls, but I wouldn't be sure about the rest of them.

Marc MacSharry in cabinet. Lord help us all. He's a ticking time bomb - genuinely strikes me as an unhinged individual.

Kermit.de.frog

Muahahaha wrote: »

Minister for Foreign Affairs- Sean Haughey

Jesus Christ

NIMAN

When you actually list them out, you're right it doesn't look great.

Will I Am Not

Minister for Mental Health - James Brown.

Kermit.de.frog

Sean Haughey or Simon Coveney


Who would you rather have in foreign affairs?


Is it even a question?

Muahahaha

Sean Haughey as Minister of Foreign Affairs during Brexit would be like Boris' dream coming true. The guy can hardly string a coherent sentence together. Also where has he been for the last four years, hes been virtually invisible across all media.

Kermit.de.frog

It does appear standards are going to drop in terms of representation if FF get in simply based on the list above.

And seeing the name 'Cowen' there as well...

...how many nightmares does that bring back for the electorate? Clearly not enough.

NovemberWren

@Muahahaha
that list is sobering; for all that F.F. are bad; [and I cannot get away from the belief that they are even evil!], but, to see that list would make a person truly stagger, for ....... the country.
Do the electorate grasp that, with a line-up like that, that there just looks like nothing will change, whatsoever.

I hate to say this: but, are F.F. sick? Are they politically stagnant? or have run out of ideas? Is there some ideology meltdown?

Muahahaha

Aspiring Minister for Justice Jim o'Callaghan spent the election campaign attacking Sinn Fein while he has been working as a barrister for Gerry Adams defending him in a defamation case over historical IRA allegations
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/revealed-ff-tds-work-on-legal-case-for-gerry-adams-38934927.html

Awkward

Yurt2

Muahahaha wrote: »

Aspiring Minister for Justice Jim o'Callaghan spent the election campaign attacking Sinn Fein while he has been working as a barrister for Gerry Adams defending him in a defamation case over historical IRA allegations
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/revealed-ff-tds-work-on-legal-case-for-gerry-adams-38934927.html

Awkward

To my knowledge, and I'm open to correction on this, but barristers are assigned to cases on a taxi-rank type system. So O'Callaghan would have been the first barrister up and he's obligated to take the case if he has expertise in the area of litigation.

Again, open to correction.

ChikiChiki

I do not get why O'Callaghan is not compelled to act in his capacity as an elected representative full time rather than splitting his time between the Dail and the courts. People depend on him.

Its a bit different to other jobs where you can double job and stinks of greed. Effectively getting a full time salary for being a part time TD.

ELM327

Cowen and Haughey on the FF benches again, by god it's been a while

Yurt2

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I do not get why O'Callaghan is not compelled to act in his capacity as an elected representative full time rather than splitting his time between the Dail and the courts. People depend on him.

Its a bit different to other jobs where you can double job and stinks of greed. Effectively getting a full time salary for being a part time TD.

Didn't know he was double jobbing. That would be of more concern to me than acting as legal counsel to whoever.

jos28

That list scares the bejaysus out of me. I could just about tolerate MM as Taoiseach but Sean Haughey representing us abroad:eek:. He's in my constituency and I cannot believe how he polls so well. He certainly isn't visible in my neck of the woods.
As for Jim O'Callaghan
Seriously I have images of Ajai Chopra outside Leinster House again.

piplip87

Brendan Smith will get a ministerial post. Possibly foreign affairs although wouldn't. surprised if he got Brexit.

is_that_so

Not a great list at all but at least some of them have experience. They may well use a coalition to get a Green,SD and Lab minister in there that the FF juniors can be 'prenticed to. Even Ross should be considered if he'll follow this bandwagon. Cowan, Donnelly and O'Callaghan offer no confidence, never mind the Haughey name and the largely unheard of TDs just filling seats. It will be a huge challenge to get such a bunch of newbies through even one Dail session. I also reckon that Foreign Affairs needs someone with experience and talent in it as Brexit is still there.

antimatterx

A talentless bunch.

BarryD2

Problem with FF is they've got old & staid - too many sitting in seats for too many years. Who tend to think they've an automatic right to be re elected just because they were before and/or their father/ brother/ sister, uncle etc etc.

Party needs a good kick up the arse and rejuvenation. Otherwise they may face reality and just join up with FG.

gmisk

BarryD2 wrote: »

Problem with FF is they've got old & staid - too many sitting in seats for too many years. Who tend to think they've an automatic right to be re elected just because they were before and/or their father/ brother/ sister, uncle etc etc.

Party needs a good kick up the arse and rejuvenation. Otherwise they may face reality and just join up with FG.

Ah now they have that young up and coming progressive voice Jack Chambers to call on...

is_that_so

gmisk wrote: »

Ah now they have that young up and coming progressive voice Jack Chambers to call on...

They do have plenty of "voices" to call on.

Ulysses Gaze

NovemberWren wrote: »

@Muahahaha
that list is sobering; for all that F.F. are bad; [and I cannot get away from the belief that they are even evil!], but, to see that list would make a person truly stagger, for ....... the country.
Do the electorate grasp that, with a line-up like that, that there just looks like nothing will change, whatsoever.

I hate to say this: but, are F.F. sick? Are they politically stagnant? or have run out of ideas? Is there some ideology meltdown?

To have an ideology meltdown, you need an ideology.

FF have none.

timmyntc

Lisa Chambers Minister for Brexit?

She's due to pop soon enough, what's gonna happen when she takes her maternity during Brexit negotiations?

Pete_Cavan

Yurt! wrote: »

To my knowledge, and I'm open to correction on this, but barristers are assigned to cases on a taxi-rank type system. So O'Callaghan would have been the first barrister up and he's obligated to take the case if he has expertise in the area of litigation.

Again, open to correction.

They can turn down a case if they wish, which JOC really should have done.

Pete_Cavan

I honestly would have no confidence in any of the FF TDs mentioned in this thread in Ministerial roles. Zero!

Fr_Dougal

Yurt! wrote: »

To my knowledge, and I'm open to correction on this, but barristers are assigned to cases on a taxi-rank type system. So O'Callaghan would have been the first barrister up and he's obligated to take the case if he has expertise in the area of litigation.

Again, open to correction.

Usually the clients solicitor will engage the barrister.

maestroamado

I worked for a successful multi-national who have business in this Country.
There is not a politician in the dail who would be capable of filling the role of Managing Director.
Neither can i remember anyone from recent years from a purely business viewpoint.
We need to have half of TDs. keep the senior Ministers and instead have professional advisers
for the said department instead of Junior Ministers in a talking shop.
Can you imagine Michael O'Leary employing one of our TDs.

Muahahaha

Yurt! wrote: »

To my knowledge, and I'm open to correction on this, but barristers are assigned to cases on a taxi-rank type system. So O'Callaghan would have been the first barrister up and he's obligated to take the case if he has expertise in the area of litigation.

Again, open to correction.

No not a taxi rank system, I think you're confusing this with the free legal aid system where it is like a taxi rank system. This is a private defamation case of Gerry Adams v The Sunday World so Adams' solicitor will engage a barrister and ask their opinion. The barrister can easily opt not to take the case by saying they dont feel they can win it, lack expertise in that area or just that they are just too busy. Jim o'Callaghan is far from the only defamation barrister in the Law Library, he could have refused the case and the solicitor would have just found a different barrister. His spin that he came out with about being obliged to defend Gerry Adams as if Jim had his hands were tied and he was being forced to do it just pure guff. Doesnt surprise me that the Law Library are backing him now too because they want Jim as Minister for Justice to keep the gravy train going.

Yurt! wrote: »

Didn't know he was double jobbing. That would be of more concern to me than acting as legal counsel to whoever.

He has always been double jobbing ever since he because a Councillor for DCC. Worse still was that when Denis o'Brien sued the State over the parliamentary privilege that allowed Catherine Murphy to reveal the dodgy Siteserve deal and the missing millions it was Jim o'Callaghan who defended o'Brien. So on the one hand he was literally in the Four Courts arguing against the concept of parliamentary privilege and then on the other he was a TD enjoying the benefits of it. Of course Jim would say poor Denis needed a defence and he was the only man who could do it but the reality is the guy has no principles and would do anything for a few quid.

Jim o'Callaghan as Minister for Justice will be as bad as Alan Shatter, if not worse (if thats possible). Jim bats for the Law Library and soon they will have their man in the top job.

When you lay it out like that OP...yikes.

Too many of the old guard there looking to get back to the golden trough.

Billcarson

Wrist slitting stuff,god help us if they get in.

Loafing Oaf

Is Calleary guaranteed to tanaiste if it's a single-party government? Paddy Power have him level with Lisa Chambers for the job. Could he remain FF deputy leader while another FFer is deputy PM?

Working class heroes

Didn’t think we had a “Brexit “ minister. Thought it was a junior minister for European affairs?

Bishop of hope

Billcarson wrote: »

Wrist slitting stuff,god help us if they get in.

True enough, but there will certainly be new TD's elected, maybe some talent there, I don't know.
But shadow ministerial roles aren't always followed on when an election is complete.

Anyway all is speculative and coalition partners would also be given cabinet seats so a possibility of shinners, sds, greens, labours and maybe even an Indo or two.

Plumbthedepths

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Is Calleary guaranteed to tanaiste if it's a single-party government? Paddy Power have him level with Lisa Chambers for the job. Could he remain FF deputy leader while another FFer is deputy PM?

It won't be single party government , not on the polling %. If the Greens go in the gig is Ryan's.

Loafing Oaf

Bishop of hope wrote: »

so a possibility of sinners

A few sodomites and fornicators perhaps, your grace?

It certainly makes for grim reading.

Bishop of hope

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

A few sodomites and fornicators perhaps, your grace?

Sorry lol, auto correct, edited. Lol again, but maybe not too wrong

Edgware

gmisk wrote: »

Ah now they have that young up and coming progressive voice Jack Chambers to call on...

Four years ago they were saying that about Harris and Murphy

Edgware

Deleted User wrote: »

When you lay it out like that OP...yikes.

Too many of the old guard there looking to get back to the golden trough.

It's time to let new people get a go at the trough

Kermit.de.frog

Say what you like about him but Simon Coveney is hands down the most talented politician in the country.

He is head and shoulders above everyone on that list.

Shame.

Ulysses Gaze

9 years after getting booted out and this is the new, reinvigorated, refreshed, re-energised, renewed Fianna Fail?

Plumbthedepths

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Say what you like about him but Simon Coveney is hands down the most talented politician in the country.

He is head and shoulders above everyone on that list.

Shame.

The guy that ran out of the housing ministry after claiming child homeless would be ended in 2017?
Seriously what makes someone a talented politician, lie with a straight face and never get found out?

Edgware

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Say what you like about him but Simon Coveney is hands down the most talented politician in the country.

He is head and shoulders above everyone on that list.

Shame.

Taking over the Bore for Ireland title from from John Hume

NovemberWren

That's going to be a Nauseating 'photo. June '20. Uriah Heep Fianna Fail, and trailing in along and behind them (and with them) - Fine Gael. All-together. All on the one and same side of the Dail.
Deh Truth ?

Muahahaha

Hard to know, the Green party vote looks like being very tight to get to their 66% and there is a campaign on in FF to vote No too but that needs more than 50% of party members to win the day

NovemberWren

@Muahahaha. don't know who Jim O'Callaghan is. But, why do barristers (and solicitors) not inform any litigant of what the costs are and may be. They simply do not do business. Are they just anticipating millionaires like D.O'B. to work for?

Or, the less that they inform - the more likely then the dissuasion of any lay litigants, [i.e. the more there are lay litigants, the more likely the fees will begin to decrease]. Solicitors just do not consider that people may need just initial advice; without their representation.

Muahahaha

NovemberWren wrote: »

@Muahahaha. don't know who Jim O'Callaghan is. But, why do barristers (and solicitors) not inform any litigant of what the costs are and may be. They simply do not do business. Are they just anticipating millionaires like D.O'B. to work for?

Or, the less that they inform - the more likely then the dissuasion of any lay litigants, [i.e. the more there are lay litigants, the more likely the fees will begin to decrease]. Solicitors just do not consider that people may need just initial advice; without their representation.

Solicitors do inform clients in advance of an approx cost of their case, in fact they are legally obliged to outline it in a letter. Thats fine for work like wills and conveyancing where the price is generally fixed. But with litigation in court you simply dont know if the other side will go all the way and how much work will have to go into it until the case is over so its not as predictable. A case in the High Court can cost 50k and if it lasts days and days then the price can be multiples of that.

Irish legal costs were supposed to be reformed when the IMF Troika were here, it was part of the bailout agreement. But Alan Shatter made a mess of it. In the end the barristers of the Bar Council stifled it and watered it down by tabling over 200 amendments to the bill. Jim o'Callaghan as barrister did his colleagues bidding in the Dail. When all was said and done legal costs are just as high now as they were before the IMF rolled into town.

As has been said many times before justice in Ireland is for the extremely wealthy or the extremely broke who get free legal aid. For anyone outside of those two groups it is frightening in cost and unaffordable, We have some of the highest legal costs out of the entre EU 27.

Mr. Karate

ELM327 wrote: »

Cowen and Haughey on the FF benches again, by god it's been a while

Just what Ireland needs at a time like this. Cowen back and another Haughey. Its like the parasites trying to make sure the corpse has been bled dry.

NovemberWren

Muahahaha wrote: »

Solicitors do inform clients in advance of an approx cost of their case, in fact they are legally obliged to outline it in a letter. Thats fine for work like wills and conveyancing where the price is generally fixed. But with litigation in court you simply dont know if the other side will go all the way and how much work will have to go into it until the case is over so its not as predictable. A case in the High Court can cost 50k and if it lasts days and days then the price can be multiples of that.

Irish legal costs were supposed to be reformed when the IMF Troika were here, it was part of the bailout agreement. But Alan Shatter made a mess of it. In the end the barristers of the Bar Council stifled it and watered it down by tabling over 200 amendments to the bill. Jim o'Callaghan as barrister did his colleagues bidding in the Dail. When all was said and done legal costs are just as high now as they were before the IMF rolled into town.

As has been said many times before justice in Ireland is for the extremely wealthy or the extremely broke who get free legal aid. For anyone outside of those two groups it is frightening in cost and unaffordable, We have some of the highest legal costs out of the entre EU 27.

that feather of Maat is an ephemeral thing. yet it is the last hurdle that we all think will solve grievance immediately. Hopefully, sometimes courts do work. Crazily enough, I do not blame barristers; if they seem to typify the world, then the world must be fixed.
But there seems to be a very definite change now though, around courts - people do their own paperwork, and whether this is a good or bad thing; the [necessary?] mystery is being queried.
In the U.S., when something is wrong; people not only do not go to court, but keep stchumm even though problems are absolutely overbearing. The house could easily be lost, if a case is lost.
I dunno, - but could a 'lockdown' be put on the home dwelling? and costs only considered, not including the home dwelling?
So many (and mid-range) people are quite intimidated, and yet, they may be the cohort who could effect change?
anyhow, i am poor, and i guess, will risk it, intimidating though it is.

Muahahaha

Norma Foley getting Minister for Education having only been elected for the first time a few months ago was a bit of a shocker. Must be some kind of record in Irish politics, a first time TD being elevating straight to Minister