Calves dying

Mach Two

Friend of mine has calves dying in his dairy herd. About a week after been born. Appear to be born healthy. All dead so far this year. Any suggestions as to the problem.

1373

Mach Two wrote: »

Friend of mine has calves dying in his dairy herd. About a week after been born. Appear to be born healthy. All dead so far this year. Any suggestions as to the problem.

Are they getting sick/ scoured or just dropping dead

jeffrey

Get his vet to investigate & send dead calf to his local veterinary Laboratory who will perform full post mortem examination.

patsy_mccabe

Could be a genetic defect with the bull. That's if he is using a bull and not doing AI, for those calves.

whelan2

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Could be a genetic defect with the bull. That's if he is using a bull and not doing AI, for those calves.

Was just going to suggest that. Happened here a few years ago.

Mach Two

This man used to have a suckler here and then changed to dairy farming. He had the same problem with the suckler calves. I don't know if they are dropping dead or fading away. No scour as far as I know. Has been to vets ,labs and everything else. Can't get to the bottom of it. He thought it might have been a viral infection. Can't think of the name of it. I never had it. Thankfully.

_Brian

There is a serious problem if the problem has followed over with his conversion from sucklers to dairy.

Gods Gift

Are they bull calves?

Water John

Stupid leading question.

Grueller

I'd they are fading over a week without scour I would suggest selenium deficiency. Inject all cows 15ml vitesel 6 weeks prior to calving. For those now due to calve give the calf 2-3ml on birth.

Water John

Yes mineral deficiency would be an early, port of call.

whelan2

Surely if there have been so many deaths this year and previous years the department would have been involved?

newholland mad

Grueller wrote: »

I'd they are fading over a week without scour I would suggest selenium deficiency. Inject all cows 15ml vitesel 6 weeks prior to calving. For those now due to calve give the calf 2-3ml on birth.

Is vitasel still available. Used it on the odd week lamb up til last year but vet said it's gone off the market now.

newholland mad

whelan2 wrote: »

Surely if there have been so many deaths this year and previous years the department would have been involved?

Talking to a guy who buys straw here about a month ago and he was telling me he got an awful doing with virus pneumonia in the autumn and lost 15 animals and the vet was Involved before the first 1 died and straight away the department arrived so this type of thing is watched.

Mach Two

He thought he had Cryptosporidium before but now he is not so sure.

green daries

Mach Two wrote: »

He thought he had Cryptosporidium before but now he is not so sure.

Its quite possible he has a combination of rsv and pi3 (pneumonia virus) and crypto.
if no really bad scours it probably rules out rota e.coli and Corona. although some of these may present in pneumonia form also I'm told by a vet
Part of the problem with dual/ or triple infection is that they may mask each other

blackdog1

Most likely they are picking up viral pneumonia either on the form of ibr or rsv p13 from the mother at birth.

jaymla627

Mach Two wrote: »

He thought he had Cryptosporidium before but now he is not so sure.

He' know if he had cryto by a simple test kit and calves dying of dehydration, if its viral a shot of zactran/draxin a few hours after birth would get you out of jail, worked on a farm where calves where dying like this and it was mycoplasma bovis that was killing them.....
First of it needs to be established if calves are getting enough colostrum after birth and aren't been left to suck the cow like he was probably previously been doing when sucking, without adequate biestings at birth a calf in a challenging environment hasnt a chance

Mooooo

I'd be throwing the kitchen sink at this tbh. Blood work on cow's and calves post mortem etc. Vet should surely be capable of finding out the issue if not I be changing vets

Mach Two

What is mycoplasma bovis. I won't be meeting him for a few days so I can get more info then.

green daries

+++1 on the blood work and the beistings.black dog is probably correct but scour infections can be present also without visible symptoms and can be enough to tip the calves immune system over the edge thus giving them very little chance to get going blood work should be done on different ages of stock on the farm as rsv and pi3 are difficult to pick up some times he is a start up dairy farm so I would presume there are no young breeding animals on the farm

Mach Two

Young breeding stock? Only a handful I think.

green daries

Mach Two wrote: »

Young breeding stock? Only a handful I think.

Ya young breeding stock just wondering as the pneumonia viruses are usually but not always more prevalent in the younger part of herds ie anything up to 3.5 to 4 year old so by blood testing say 4 of every age group on the farm will give a better chance of getting the virus to show up I would really think that there's more than one virus / infection source on farm for calves to be dying so quickly as moo and another poster have said bloods will tell a tale and can cover deficiencies as well

Dakota Dan

newholland mad wrote: »

Talking to a guy who buys straw here about a month ago and he was telling me he got an awful doing with virus pneumonia in the autumn and lost 15 animals and the vet was Involved before the first 1 died and straight away the department arrived so this type of thing is watched.

I worked for a fairy farmer around 10 years ago and he lost 50 calves out of 120 to pneumonia one spring and the department never bat an eyelid.

Veledan22

If it is something similar to Cryptosporidium, I would recommend that your friend ask his vet about Halocur.

We had huge losses, circa 50% of calves, about 10 years ago from a Cryptosporidium-like virus (we could never get a definitive name for it from the lab despite numerous samples being sent for analysis). We started using Halocur on all the newborn calves (you have to give it to them within the first 24/48 hours) and while the virus was still in the herd, we had far fewer losses. We have used it every year since. I would definitely suggest that your friend ask his vet about it.

Mach Two

Just confirmed. Calves getting a really bad scour after a week. Dead after 24 yrs or so.

tanko

Mach Two wrote: »

Just confirmed. Calves getting a really bad scour after a week. Dead after 24 yrs or so.

Sounds like a bad strain of Crypto.
I'd be dosing them with Halocur for ten days starting after their first feed.

whelan2

Or if you could get some rotavec treated biestings for the calves

Mach Two

What is Rotavec.

whelan2

Mach Two wrote: »

What is Rotavec.

It's a vaccine that you give cows a few weeks before calving that helps prevent scour in calves through the cows milk

Mooooo

If they have crypto now I'd strongly urge him to consider trying to get someone in to help. Halocur for all calves born and regular disinfecting of calving pens etc. Ensure biestings is going in don't leave calves to suck the cow's for it. Vaccinate all cow's due to calve after 3 weeks with rotavec corona. Get a big batch of effydral tablets and use separate feeding equipment for newborns and sick calves. Calves with crypto will need four to five feeds daily. 2 of milk and 3 of effydral, first thing in morning, midday and last thing at night. Have disinfectant points at calf shed and get separate boots and gear for dealing with sick calves and wash regularly

blackdog1

Mach Two wrote: »

Just confirmed. Calves getting a really bad scour after a week. Dead after 24 yrs or so.

you need to test the calves dung with a quick test kit . your vet should have them

https://www.farmacy.co.uk/products/733-rainbow-calf-scour-diagnostic-test-x-5

in the meantime he should vaccinate his cows with rotavac corona to elimate that problem. i would't be surprised if hes getting a combination of both rota and crypto they're dying so quick.

Mach Two

Is Rotavec only for Rotavirus.

blackdog1

Mach Two wrote: »

Is Rotavec only for Rotavirus.

yes you'll need a product called parafor for crypto. i wouldn't bother with halacur, in my experience it doesn't kill it just prolongs the onset of it

whelan2

Mach Two wrote: »

Is Rotavec only for Rotavirus.

No for coronavirus too. I always found it also helped to lessen the impact of a crypto outbreak.

green daries

Yes it also covers k99 and e.coli plus any form of pneumonia attached to the above I think we are all familiar with the name Corona virus now! I also wouldn't rule out the other pneumonia virus talked about earlier and would recommend blood tests to rule in or out these treatments being advised and talked about here are going to be expensive upfront BUT its a very cheap solution in the long run because these viruses get deeply embedded in a herd unless nipped in the bud it's a really tough time for a farmer who is stuck in the middle of it but other posters advice here especially re hygiene is top notch and its great to see people be free with good quality advice

Mach Two

What do you do with the Parafor. For the cow or calf.

whelan2

Mach Two wrote: »

What do you do with the Parafor. For the cow or calf.

Calf. Sheds have to be cleaned and disenfected if possible use different sheds than what's being used now for calves

gozunda

Mach Two wrote: »

Just confirmed. Calves getting a really bad scour after a week. Dead after 24 yrs or so.

24 yrs?

Mach Two

gozunda wrote: »

24 yrs?

Maybe a bit longer. Maybe 48 hrs. But dying quickly.

whelan2

Another thing to try is iodine in the cows drinking water before calving. Lugols iodine 1cc per cow per day in their drinker for a few weeks before calving. Helps the calves to be lively after birth

Mach Two

whelan2 wrote: »

Another thing to try is iodine in the cows drinking water before calving. Lugols iodine 1cc per cow per day in their drinker for a few weeks before calving. Helps the calves to be lively after birth

No weak calves after birth. You can give too much iodine too.

wrangler

Mach Two wrote: »

No weak calves after birth. You can give too much iodine too.

Local lab must be very poor if they can't diagnose.
Iused to spray tincture of iodine on the shoulder and the cows would lick it off as a way of giving them iodine

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

Local lab must be very poor if they can't diagnose.
Iused to spray tincture of iodine on the shoulder and the cows would lick it off as a way of giving them iodine

Question - how do you know if cows are deficient? What are the symptoms?
TBH I've never heard of feeding Iodine in water or spraying it only from reading threads on F&F. I'm aware of copper and selenium deficiency.

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

Question - how do you know if cows are deficient? What are the symptoms?
TBH I've never heard of feeding Iodine in water or spraying it only from reading threads on F&F. I'm aware of copper and selenium deficiency.

Big lazy calves at birth, some won't take the first breath,,
don't bother to suck then if they live,

green daries

A lack of iodine Also causes fertility issues

orm0nd

wrangler wrote: »

Big lazy calves at birth, some won't take the first breath,,
don't bother to suck then if they live,

Low iodine causes thyroid issues, when the calf tries to breathe the gland caves in, cutting off the air supply.


We had ibr a few years back, all initial tests showed nothing, eventually showed up after a detailed tissue culture test.

Not saying it's the issue with these calves but ibr is responsible for a lot more deaths and sickness than people realise, it can be lingering in an animal and kicks in if the immune system come under pressure.

Mach Two

wrangler wrote: »

Big lazy calves at birth, some won't take the first breath,,
don't bother to suck then if they live,

Exactly. I had this problem years ago. 1 cc/cow a day of Lugols iodine in the water and everything changed.

Mach Two

orm0nd wrote: »

Low iodine causes thyroid issues, when the calf tries to breathe the gland caves in, cutting off the air supply.


We had ibr a few years back, all initial tests showed nothing, eventually showed up after a detailed tissue culture test.

Not saying it's the issue with these calves but ibr is responsible for a lot more deaths and sickness than people realise, it can be lingering in an animal and kicks in if the immune system come under pressure.

How do you check for IBR.

Buford T. Justice XIX

To my mind, scouring after a week and dying within 24 hours would point towards Rotavirus or Corona virus. We had an outbreak of Corona virus last year and we had a rough 3 weeks till the immunity in colostrum kicked in.

A post mortem and samples of scour need to be done as quickly as possible. The vet should have a test kit for testing and will be able to give a diagnosis from that pretty quickly.

If it is Rota/Coronavirus, it'll take 3 weeks for enough immunity to build up to fully protect the calf but there will be increasing immunity from 2 weeks after vaccination. So vaccinate everything as soon as possible if it shows up.

As soon as any calf hits the ground from now on, take the cow and milk her straight away and feed the calf straight away. You need to feed at least 3 litres of the first milking into the calf, or more if possible. This will get the maximum protection into the calf.

The idea that you can wait for a few hours for the calf to suck and they'll drink what they want isn't going to work any more, I'm afraid.

But get the scour samples tested first

Reggiehammond

Friend of mine had a lot of calf deaths a few years ago he found a product called Locatim and it solved it for him.