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Chinese EV to hit Europe - Aiways U5

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,318 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    Looks good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,507 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    About the size of an Audi Q5...more than enough performance for navigating Europe’s dense urban centers.

    Indeed, what Europe's dense urban centres need is definitely more SUVs.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,823 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    The majority of us will be driving Chinese EVs in about 20-30 years time. Hard to see how the incumbents can survive this.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭ Joseph SEE


    unkel wrote: »
    The majority of us will be driving Chinese EVs in about 20-30 years time. Hard to see how the incumbents can survive this.

    Not so sure about that. China's economic position is precarious.

    If China exports suffer then the country will go into an enormous recession due to their level of domestic debt. It could take them decades to recover.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,823 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Don't disagree with any of that, but if China will be able to start exporting EVs worth at least €20k each on average and they will do so by the millions in a few years time, and by the tens of millions in about a decade, I think they will come out of it well economically. And who is going to be able to compete with that?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    the psa electrics are already using Chinese made running gear , so that's the 208,2008,some DS or other,Corsa and many fiats in the near future ... But psa is part owned by dong feng motors ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,919 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    unkel wrote: »
    Don't disagree with any of that, but if China will be able to start exporting EVs worth at least €20k each on average and they will do so by the millions in a few years time, and by the tens of millions in about a decade, I think they will come out of it well economically. And who is going to be able to compete with that?

    Lets see how the coronavirus pans out, for all of us, before we start talking decades :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    The majority of us will be driving Chinese EVs in about 20-30 years time. Hard to see how the incumbents can survive this.
    Certainly won't be.
    I'll be long in the cold ground before I drive a chinese car


  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭ D13exile


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Certainly won't be.
    I'll be long in the cold ground before I drive a chinese car

    Why? There's a good chance your expensive smart phone is Chinese made. China has moved on a long way from cheap knock off goods and they will be the economic powerhouse of the 21st century. If they start producing BEV's at reasonable prices, ie €20k, then why not buy one?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,715 ✭✭✭ SteM


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Certainly won't be.
    I'll be long in the cold ground before I drive a chinese car

    The same way people wouldn't drive Skodas. But then they would. And people wouldn't drive Dacias. And then they would.

    You yourself might have no interest but Tommy and Mary just want a reliable car that they think is good value for money. Oh, and of course it has to be new.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    D13exile wrote: »
    Why? There's a good chance your expensive smart phone is Chinese made. China has moved on a long way from cheap knock off goods and they will be the economic powerhouse of the 21st century. If they start producing BEV's at reasonable prices, ie €20k, then why not buy one?


    I don't need my phone to be constructed to save my life and those of my family in a crash.


    SteM wrote: »
    The same way people wouldn't drive Skodas. But then they would. And people wouldn't drive Dacias. And then they would.

    You yourself might have no interest but Tommy and Mary just want a reliable car that they think is good value for money. Oh, and of course it has to be new.


    I've owned 2 skodas and driven a Dacia. I have no issues with them,


    It's not so simple though. For every Skoda theres a Lada.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,529 ✭✭✭✭ Dont be at yourself


    Japanese cars used to be cheap knock-offs of US cars. More recently Korean cars were imitations of Japanese cars. Times change. I agree with Unkel that the transition to EV will result in a huge leap forward for the Chinese auto industry.

    Safety, quality control etc are not an inherent advantages of Western OEMs. If the Chinese need to compete on these, they will.


  • Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭ Gile_na_gile


    Lets see how the coronavirus pans out, for all of us, before we start talking decades :D


    The Corona virus has mortality rate of 3% so far, and less if you include those not diagnosed and recovered. The seasonal flu is 1%.... China is well-equipped to deal with it, but I would like to know what are they doing generally to improve markets, because that is where we are getting these viral mutations from one species to another.


    Anyway, Euro and Am makers have to beat them on innovation and brand loyalty, but the direction of China is going from low-value to high-value, so it will eventually flatten out. We have seen that already with their mobiles, Xiaomi etc. China is changing to a domestic consumption-driven economy with a middle class as large as that of Europe....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭ JohnC.


    I assume there's already plenty of car components made in China?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,715 ✭✭✭ SteM


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I've owned 2 skodas and driven a Dacia. I have no issues with them,


    It's not so simple though. For every Skoda theres a Lada.

    My point is that many people wouldn't have touched them at one point but have no problem owning them now. The same will happen with the Chinese imports in time if the price is good and the quality is there. Your stance of 'dead in the ground' ownership is the minority.

    It's like every industry,


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,507 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    unkel wrote: »
    The majority of us will be driving Chinese EVs in about 20-30 years time. Hard to see how the incumbents can survive this.

    There was the same panic about Japan in the 1980s.

    Michael Crichton wrote a slightly mental novel with this theme called Rising Sun, in 1992.

    The world kept spinning, the incumbents still kept pumping out cars, even the USAnians!

    https://fee.org/articles/80s-fears-of-a-japanese-economic-pearl-harbor-look-silly-today-but-theyre-instructive/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(novel)

    I feel old.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,823 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I'm at least as old as you and I well remember :D

    The threat from Japan was never as serious and imminent as the threat from China is now though. And as Dont be at yourself says, they have form. They already make plenty of >USD1000 mobile phones (iPhones) that are perceived to be top quality (as good as anything produced anywhere else in the world).

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭ adunis


    My 5 mobile phones to enter my house were Chinese,each with comparable specs/build quality and finish to rival the establishments offerings at 1/2 or even 1/3 rd the price.
    I look forward to the day my car will be the same,in fact I look forward to when buying your car will be the same process as buying a domestic appliance the days of the traditional car industry are numbered,which of the incumbents will survive ?........

    Roll on my Xaoimi gt-ev ......


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,823 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I don't know if I'm looking forward to any of that adunis :(

    It's the most likely scenario though. And people wouldn't even realise their car is Chinese. Just like with the iPhone 11 Pro, a Chinese phone. And the MG ZS, a Chinese EV that's competent and thousands cheaper than it would have cost from a European, American, Korean or Japanese manufacturer.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 72,646 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I don't need my phone to be constructed to save my life and those of my family in a crash.


    I've owned 2 skodas and driven a Dacia. I have no issues with them,


    It's not so simple though. For every Skoda theres a Lada.

    Stay away from Volvo’s so :D

    And it’s not as if Chinese car companies that don’t just buy a brand like Volvo can’t make a safe car either. Qoros Q3 got 5 star NCAP.
    https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/qoros/3-sedan/8887

    Cars designed for developing markets don’t prioritize safety, that’s a fact. It wasn’t long ago that VW were still building T2 buses from 1950 in 2013, Suzuki have 50% of the Indian car market, a lot of that made up of the local market Alto, which is as much of a death trap as most Chinese cars. Toyota still 90s Hiaces, which have appalling safety, they just don’t sell this stuff in our market.

    Ford Courier vans here still don’t have side airbags or even a passenger airbag. The Citroen Berlingo has a hugely dangerous middle seat setup where the passengers knee is jammed against the base of the gear lever, they get away with all of this because vans aren’t crash tested here like cars are.

    So unsafe cars aren’t a uniquely Chinese thing, and they can make them safe when they (you know, grouping them all together) want to.


    Also - Lada are selling rebadged Dacias now!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,529 ✭✭✭✭ Dont be at yourself


    Whatever about MG, lets not forget Volvo / Polestar are part of Chinese auto company Geely (who may also buy Aston Martin)!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,516 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    Aiways’ U5 SUV first appeared on our radar back in September, when it became the first Chinese EV to receive full type approval from German testing and certification agency, TUV Rheinland. At that time, range was estimated to be nearly 270 miles (434 km) in the NEDC cycle — closer to 240, by “our” standards — and the U5 met all the TÜV’s strict noise and safety tests, as well. “The Chinese automotive industry is strongly committed to alternative drive line technologies and intends to use them to open up international markets,” explained Gunnar Pflug, the head of type certification at TÜV. “TÜV Rheinland has the competence and experience to provide Chinese manufacturers with access to these markets through appropriate testing and certification services.”

    the germans are testing them, I think they know a thing or two about cars...


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Stay away from Volvo’s so :D

    And it’s not as if Chinese car companies that don’t just buy a brand like Volvo can’t make a safe car either. Qoros Q3 got 5 star NCAP.
    https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/qoros/3-sedan/8887

    Cars designed for developing markets don’t prioritize safety, that’s a fact. It wasn’t long ago that VW were still building T2 buses from 1950 in 2013, Suzuki have 50% of the Indian car market, a lot of that made up of the local market Alto, which is as much of a death trap as most Chinese cars. Toyota still 90s Hiaces, which have appalling safety, they just don’t sell this stuff in our market.

    Ford Courier vans here still don’t have side airbags or even a passenger airbag. The Citroen Berlingo has a hugely dangerous middle seat setup where the passengers knee is jammed against the base of the gear lever, they get away with all of this because vans aren’t crash tested here like cars are.

    So unsafe cars aren’t a uniquely Chinese thing, and they can make them safe when they (you know, grouping them all together) want to.


    Also - Lada are selling rebadged Dacias now!


    Theres a difference between a few ancient vans and mass producing unsafe crap


    Chinese ownership of volvo doesnt change the company, same as JLR

    Whatever about MG, lets not forget Volvo / Polestar are part of Chinese auto company Geely (who may also buy Aston Martin)!
    Again, ownership is not the issue


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,516 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    the likes of bm for a few years had their "chape" tax etc. but when the masses cna move to new electric and save a lot v their older fossil fuel cars, will many care what brands they are getting into?


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭ patmahe


    My main concern about a Chinese vehicle is not quality or similar, they have the economies of scale which would mean R&D would be very worthwhile so quality may even be higher than some European manufacturers.

    What I would have a concern about is the regulations they would have to be built to, will they have to pass EuroNCAP crash tests for example, if they do that and can sell a large EV with good range for under 30k they'll fly out of the showrooms and good luck to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,646 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Theres a difference between a few ancient vans and mass producing unsafe crap


    Chinese ownership of volvo doesnt change the company, same as JLR



    Again, ownership is not the issue

    You do know that VW, Toyota and Suzuki weren’t building these in some jungle clearing, knocking out a few a week. These were full scale production cars.

    I agree that the domestic Chinese stuff is pretty appalling safety wise, but they’re not the only nation at it.

    American cars are gas guzzlers, hence I’ll never own a Tesla, and I won’t be told otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭ zilog_jones


    patmahe wrote: »
    My main concern about a Chinese vehicle is not quality or similar, they have the economies of scale which would mean R&D would be very worthwhile so quality may even be higher than some European manufacturers.

    What I would have a concern about is the regulations they would have to be built to, will they have to pass EuroNCAP crash tests for example, if they do that and can sell a large EV with good range for under 30k they'll fly out of the showrooms and good luck to them.

    Anyone selling a car in Europe will have to meet European standards for type approval, which includes various safety requirements.

    Euro NCAP is a non-profit organisation and testing is not mandatory - cars for testing can be chosen independently by the organisation or sponsored by the manufacturer. But I imagine if a Chinese car maker wants to make a mark in Europe and prove they can build safe cars, they'll get it done.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,823 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    The only Chinese EV for sale in the EU that I can think of is the MG ZS. It has got a Euro NCAP 3 star rating.

    Not great, but not terrible either. Probably as safe as a 4-5 star car was 20 years ago?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,507 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    unkel wrote: »
    The only Chinese EV for sale in the EU that I can think of is the MG ZS. It has got a Euro NCAP 3 star rating.

    Not great, but not terrible either. Probably as safe as a 4-5 star car was 20 years ago?

    Nope. The ICE version got 3 stars, but the EV version got 5 stars.

    Turns out protecting the battery also protects the occupants.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,823 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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