Dublin Airport Bus Service Changes & Discussion

devnull

Following a recent tender competition run by the DAA for bus stops, a shake-up of bus and coach services to Dublin Airport at the Airport, including the provision of additional services, and changes to bus stops served are going ahead in February and March.

As part of the tender process, DAA were encouraging and providing incentives for operators to expand services to areas deemed to be underserved as well as the provision of 24 hour services. The incentives included promotion of said new routes and media credits at Dublin Airport.

The tender document that these stops were let under can be [URL="javascript:DownloadPublicDocument('2077214','sDoc_2077214','172161');"]found here[/URL].

New Operator - Dublin Express - Services Commenced 3rd March 2020
National Express started three new 24 hour routes serving Dublin City from Dublin Airport, under the brand of Dublin Express, operated by Bernard Kavanagh on 3rd March 2020.

782 - Dublin Airport T1 -> Dubin Airport T2 -> Custom House Quay -> Smithfield
783 - Dublin Airport T1 -> Dublin Airport T2 -> Custom House Quay
784 - Dublin Airport T1 -> Dublin Airport T2 -> Custom House Quay -> Merrion Square

The new services depart from directly outside the front door of both Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 at Dublin Airport, the spots which were previously occupied by Aircoach.

Stop Changes for Existing Services - Phase 1 - 4th February 2020
On 4th February 2020 services operated by Bus Eireann, JJ Kavanagh, CityLink, GoBus and Translink saw their bus stops at Dublin Airport move to new locations.

Stop Changes for Existing Services - Phase 2 - 3rd March 2020
Since 3rd March 2020, Aircoach no longer serve the front door of either terminal and depart from Zone 11 of the airport, at T1 and will no longer pick up or drop off passengers at T2.

The new operator Dublin Express, from the same date, took over the stops directly outside the front door of both Terminal 1 and Terminal 2.

New Bus Stop Layout
Click here for the new bus stops zone map in force from 3rd March 2020.

Potential Provision of extra services
National Express have been granted a license for the following services.

785 - Airport to Clontarf (Via Clarehall, Raheny and Fairview)

No indication as of yet has been given when this service may be starting up.

L1011

That airport to Tallaght one may be the via Celbridge variation of the Tallaght route that Airport Hopper were discussing

devnull

L1011 wrote: »

That airport to Tallaght one may be the via Celbridge variation of the Tallaght route that Airport Hopper were discussing

Both of the following remain with Dualway operated under the Airport Hopper brand.
777 - Tallaght to Dublin Airport
767 - Maynooth to Dublin Airport

Nothing to suggest an additional route has been approved, so perhaps what happened was that AIrport Hopper had their application turned down due to a prior application from Express Bus?

Bojill

devnull wrote: »

Both of the following remain with Dualway operated under the Airport Hopper brand.
777 - Tallaght to Dublin Airport
767 - Maynooth to Dublin Airport

Nothing to suggest an additional route has been approved, so perhaps what happened was that AIrport Hopper had their application turned down due to a prior application from Express Bus?

Saw this a few days ago...

https://mobile.twitter.com/airporthopper1/status/1219943351023210496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3Aairporthopper1%7Ctwcon%5Etimelinechrome&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fairporthopper.ie%2F

Text from 22nd Jan :Dear Airport Hopper Fans 🀗

It’s getting real!! Our documentation for a service via Celbridge is in the post to the NTA! 🥳🥳🥳

devnull

Bojill wrote: »

Saw this a few days ago...

https://mobile.twitter.com/airporthopper1/status/1219943351023210496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3Aairporthopper1%7Ctwcon%5Etimelinechrome&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fairporthopper.ie%2F

Just because their application for a license is in the post, it doesn't mean they will get one, there's a few stages it has to go through before it gets to the issuing of a license stage and if it's similar to the already licensed service by another operator, it makes it harder to get a license, but not impossible.

Have they really been talking about this service for a while before putting an application in for an actual license for the service? If so, that's exceptionally naive commercially as you're basically telling all your competitors that you are doing so who can then pip you to the post.

I note Frank O'Rourke is a FF politician, could be some interesting politics at play shortly!

coylemj

The change to the Aircoach stops is nowhere to be found in their 'Latest News', instead it's buried in their FAQs, under 'Where does Aircoach pickup at Dublin Airport'....

Please note that from 4 March 2020 the Aircoach pick up point at Dublin Airport will be from Zone 11 at Terminal 1 only.

https://www.aircoach.ie/faqs

Map (PDF) of the airport showing the bus zones ....

https://www.dublinairport.com/docs/default-source/maps/transport-map.pdf

devnull

coylemj wrote: »

The change to the Aircoach stops is nowhere to be found in their 'Latest News', instead it's buried in their FAQs, under 'Where does Aircoach pickup at Dublin Airport'....

Please note that from 4 March 2020 the Aircoach pick up point at Dublin Airport will be from Zone 11 at Terminal 1 only.

https://www.aircoach.ie/faqs

Probably don't want people who are booking online to see that ahead of time I would guess is the reason, might effect their bookings and passengers may have to pass two operators now to get to them.

coylemj

devnull wrote: »

Probably don't want people who are booking online to see that ahead of time I would guess is the reason, might effect their bookings and passengers may have to pass two operators now to get to them.

Possibly. It will be interesting to see who gets the prime stops outside T1 nd T2.

If a new operator got those stops and stared a service on the N11 which did not go into D2 i.e. took the old Aircoach Greystones route straight from the Rock Road to the East Link and the Tunnel, it would give Aircoach something to worry about.

thomasj

devnull wrote: »

Both of the following remain with Dualway operated under the Airport Hopper brand.
777 - Tallaght to Dublin Airport
767 - Maynooth to Dublin Airport

Nothing to suggest an additional route has been approved, so perhaps what happened was that AIrport Hopper had their application turned down due to a prior application from Express Bus?

See the NTAs current list of licensed services

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/bus-licensing/view-list-of-current-licences/

devnull

thomasj wrote: »

See the NTAs current list of licensed services

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/bus-licensing/view-list-of-current-licences/

Which backs up my point. Dualway still have the original two Hopper routes and Express Bus have eight new ones.

coylemj

So while profits are through the roof at Aircoach and they paid the parent company a €4.5M dividend (see IT article below), they're about to abandon their prime stops outside the terminals in Dublin airport. Which will force their passengers to lug their bags across the tarmac to the terminals.

I also recall that they updated their timetables on certain routes in January 2017 but failed to update the mobile app which showed out of date schedules for several years afterwards. Then they abandoned the app altogether. The current Aircoach app is for purchasing tickets only, if you click on 'bus times' it redirects to their website. They really couldn't be bothered

====== Irish Times January 20th 2020 ========

The growth of Dublin Airport and the increase in city-based events in Dublin were key to the increase to €30.2 million in revenue at private bus operator Aircoach last year, according to its directors.

Accounts for Last Passive Ltd show an increase in slight revenue to €30.2 million from €29.8 million and pre-tax profits of €4.719 million in the 12 months to the end of March 30th last.

Dublin Airport growth drives revenues at Aircoach to €30.2m

devnull

First of all before I say any more, the below is not confirmation that these will be the actual routes, but simply stating what the TFI Journey Planner is currently showing. The information is clearly not complete, as routes 782/783/784 show nothing other than the terminus and the airport as stops, which won't be right.

However.....

Possible Terminus points of new routes.
According to the Transport for Ireland Journey Planner, the following terminus points can be expected
- 782 to Dublin City (Arran Quay)
- 783 to Dublin City (Custom House Quay)
- 784 to Merrion Square (Hollies Street)

Possible route 785 Alignment
Route 785 on the TFI Journey Planner appears to indicate the following route
Clontarf (Station) - Clontarf (St Lawrence Rd) - Raheny (Station) - Raheny (Tonlegee Rd) - Coolock (Brookville Crescent) - Clare Hall (Shopping Centre) - Dublin Airport.

StreetLight

Possibly related, this crowd is currently seeking drivers for Dublin Airport routes starting next month:

https://dublindrivers.com/

https://www.facebook.com/dublindrivers/

ITV2

funny they use a Dublin Bus in the last image on their page?

devnull

This is believed to be the brand that will be used for the new services.

Vic_08

So these are more premium fare routes competing with Aircoach and Airlink rather than an expansion of regular bus routes. Disappointing.

More standard fare routes to parts of the city currently with poor airport links are needed far more than a third operator overcharging tourists going to the city centre.

Don't get me started on the shameful business of DAA auctioning off bus stops to the highest bidder. If they had gone to the trouble of building a proper bus station with indoor waiting and information facilities then maybe it would be justified but the rates they charge for a bit of tarmac with a shelter if you are lucky is a joke.

dublinman1990

I love the logo for this brand. It's excellent.

Do we know what livery is being designed for Dublin Express?

bk

Wow this is shocking news. This will put Aircoach under serious pressure. They are already facing lots of pressure on the Cork route from GoBus and the Belfast route from Dublin Coach, but now seeing a new large well financed competitor on their core Dublin Airport routes and to lose the prime bus stop locations, they could well end up in serious trouble.

I’d say it will impact Airlink to, but obviously that wouldn’t be as serious threat to Dublin Bus as a whole, given their PSO routes.

I think it could actually be good for DB to get out of the Airlink and focus on developing more PSO routes to Dublin Airport as Vic mentions.

But yikes for Aircoach, they will need to be far more aggressive in terms of competitiveness then they have shown over the past few years if they are to survive this onslaught.

bk

Mr.S wrote: »

Would these new routes be included on tax saver tickets / leap card caps or are they totally private?

Totally private, so no tax saver. They however could join leapcard and free travel pass schemes as some private operators have, however I wouldn’t expect that from the start.

thomasj

bk wrote: »

Totally private, so no tax saver. They however could join leapcard and free travel pass schemes as some private operators have, however I wouldn’t expect that from the start.

There's a few private companies in the taxsaver and leap schemes and I'm pretty sure there was mention of taxsaver in the tender document for the airport

john boye

Might be a good time for DB to make the 16 a 24 hour service. I know it might seem like throwing more capacity onto the airport services but we've seen from the apparent success of the 41 that there is an appetite for cheaper options to get to the airport in the early hours.

devnull

bk wrote: »

Wow this is shocking news. This will put Aircoach under serious pressure. They are already facing lots of pressure on the Cork route from GoBus and the Belfast route from Dublin Coach, but now seeing a new large well financed competitor on their core Dublin Airport routes and to lose the prime bus stop locations, they could well end up in serious trouble.

I've also seen a rumour on another forum that Dublin Coach are hoping to serve Dublin Airport soon on their Belfast route which means they're going to face head to head competition here too and also in the recent Aircoach accounts it was mentioned that they had saw declining performance on the Cork route due to competition, although much of that can be put down to the foolish move of basically sitting back and doing nothing when Gobus undercut them - contrast that with what the previous, more commercially savvy, management team did when GoBe launched.

I’d say it will impact Airlink to, but obviously that wouldn’t be as serious threat to Dublin Bus as a whole, given their PSO routes.

I think it could actually be good for DB to get out of the Airlink and focus on developing more PSO routes to Dublin Airport as Vic mentions.

Dublin Bus is the biggest bus operator in the state, enjoys good brand recognition, it's Airlink services stop at Busaras, Connolly Station, Heuston Station and bang slap in the middle of O'Connell Street, is included on the Visitor Leap Card, cross promoted with their tour services and has a sales desk inside T1. It also has a good spot at both terminals. They will certainly see some revenue loss, but not significant and nowhere near as much as Aircoach.

Any ETA on when those new routes might start?

Hard to tell, heard nothing firm on that. They have the licenses but the earliest it can be is February, with March looking more likely to be the earliest date, bearing in mind Aircoach are not moving out of the stops that the new operator is said to be taking until then. I can't see them launching all the services at the same time either, truth be told so it could be a staggered launch depending on when they have the resources such as vehicles and staffing.

I would imagine at least initially that Bernard Kavanagh and Sons might have a role to play as they are the go to people in Ireland to contract work to fill in gaps when needed and National Express already have a business relationship with them.

Carawaystick

thomasj wrote: »

There's a few private companies in the taxsaver and leap schemes and I'm pretty sure there was mention of taxsaver in the tender document for the airport

The only requirements to get the tax saver tax break, is to get a season ticket paid from salary sacrifice, bought by your employer; and is for a month or longer duration.
So any private sector public transport co selling season tickets can apply. the Revenue guidance specifically mentions ferry services....


Its Bizarre that there are no services to get the people who work in the airport to work there, at the times they need to get there

thomasj

Carawaystick wrote: »

Its Bizarre that there are no services to get the people who work in the airport to work there, at the times they need to get there

Well they seem to be trying to change it.

In the tender document , their number 1 focus is on services that run 24 hours a day to the prime locations that airport staff come from.

devnull

Mr.S wrote: »

But these routes are premium / privately run, anyone working at the airport isn’t going to pay for it twice a day?

They will have a special staff rate for people working at the airport. Aircoach already have one which is about half the general public rate and other operators do the same.

Chris_5339762

Someone is a nerd, the 781 goes to the N81

devnull

devnull wrote: »

This is believed to be the brand that will be used for the new services.

Confirmed that National Express have lodged a trademark registration submission for the above name and logo in Ireland.

That would appear to all but confirm the involvement of National Express in these new services.

Brian CivilEng

The 785 bus could be a game changer for me commuting to work, especially if they do season tickets. But my one worry is that it wont be popular due to price. Say it charges €7 a ticket and €3.50 for a child ticket, that would be €17.50 for my family to go from Raheny to the Airport. A taxi costs €20.

I still reckon a 17a express that by-passed Kilmore and Beaumont hospital would be a huge success.

Idbatterim

abitofacomedian wrote: »

The 785 bus could be a game changer for me commuting to work, especially if they do season tickets. But my one worry is that it wont be popular due to price. Say it charges €7 a ticket and €3.50 for a child ticket, that would be €17.50 for my family to go from Raheny to the Airport. A taxi costs €20.

I still reckon a 17a express that by-passed Kilmore and Beaumont hospital would be a huge success.

how many that relatively close, if you had a family, would take a bus to airport? I wouldnt!

an airport bus from citywest to city centre would be great. Would be good if it stopped off at redcow interchange!

markpb

abitofacomedian wrote: »

But my one worry is that it wont be popular due to price. Say it charges €7 a ticket and €3.50 for a child ticket, that would be €17.50 for my family to go from Raheny to the Airport. A taxi costs €20.

That's nothing new. Public transport is rarely competitive on price beyond a small number of people. A family of 2+2 travelling to Cork this weekend will pay nearly €200 (all the low fares are currently sold out) so driving is definitely the cheaper option. Buses to the airport are attractive because of the connection straight to the door, no need to travel to/from the car park (twice) and no need to pay for parking while you're away.

bikeman1

I think these services could work if priced correctly and run correctly. A bit like a semi-fast service. I have seen it in the UK, where the bus does stop en route, but not at every stop.

You could hop on and hop off at the intermediate stops if you so wish or travel all the way to or from the airport. A return price of say €7 or €4 single would possibly work. Decent luggage racks etc.

I would happily pay €4 from Raheny / Clontarf to the airport. A lot of people flying out of the airport are sole travellers or with one other person. Your bucket and spade family heading for their annual holiday will probably get a friend / family member to bring them or jump a taxi. A year round bus service would not need to rely on them to survive.

As mentioned a tax saver discounted option for airport workers would be necessary to keep the buses busy throughout the day and night.

Finally, if they are going to throw another bus terminating into Clontarf Road DART station, they need to make proper bus stops. The East Point shuttle and the 104 (when it is there) is causing a bit of a clash. Putting a third route there with people walking everywhere, a carpark is going to be a mess.

bk

markpb wrote: »

A family of 2+2 travelling to Cork this weekend will pay nearly €200 (all the low fares are currently sold out) so driving is definitely the cheaper option.

I assume you are talking about rail there. €74 return for a family ticket (2 adults + 2 kids) with GoBus. I take my family to Cork all the time by coach.

If you included the cost of buying a car, it would be much more expensive. Of course if you already have a car for other needs (commuting to work, etc.) then the cost of Diesel to Cork comes in just slightly below that. Though it is nice to just chill on the bus and not have to drive for over 2 hours.

trellheim

Why is Aircoach moving from the front of the terminals - is it just because DAA are auctioning the spots ?

devnull

trellheim wrote: »

Why is Aircoach moving from the front of the terminals - is it just because DAA are auctioning the spots ?

The spots have been tendered for a few years at a time for the last 15 years or so.

coylemj

devnull wrote: »

The spots have been tendered for a few years at a time for the last 15 years or so.

I wonder have Aircoach made any provision for replacing the ticket stands they currently operate beside their stops outside the terminals? The one at T2 is in a particularly prime location, it's right at the bottom of the escalator where you exit from arrivals. On your right as you come down, you can see the signs for the various Aircoach routes and right at the bottom of the escalator is a manned Aircoach ticket stand.

I assume that the new operator who's paying for those prime locations will have exclusive use of that patch i.e. will not have any high visibility competition as a next door neighbour so I wonder where will Aircoach locate their ticket stands?

devnull

Aircoach are moving to Zone 11, a map of the airport is here:
https://www.dublinairport.com/docs/default-source/maps/transport-map.pdf

They'll have to lose their desk outside T1, can't see there being room for that set-up at Zone 11 but their ticket desks should be able to be moved without too much of a problem.

coylemj

devnull wrote: »

Aircoach are moving to Zone 11, a map of the airport is here:
https://www.dublinairport.com/docs/default-source/maps/transport-map.pdf

Thanks but I already posted that link, in post #6.

devnull wrote: »

They'll have to lose their desk outside T1, can't see there being room for that set-up at Zone 11 but their ticket desks should be able to be moved without too much of a problem.

That was my question.... moved where? AFAIK they are the only transport operator with ticket stands directly outside the terminals. I see loads of people buying tickets from their stand when I'm waiting for my Aircoach at T2, I just wonder how they're going to hang on to those travellers, or will they be lost to the new operator at the prime stops?

thenightman

Idbatterim wrote: »

how many that relatively close, if you had a family, would take a bus to airport? I wouldnt!

an airport bus from citywest to city centre would be great. Would be good if it stopped off at redcow interchange!

I think that route would be awful. It's crap travelling on a bus from that side of the city to the city centre as there's poor bus priority on the Naas Road. Dublin Coach and Airport Hopper both use the M50 because of this. Bus through the city and out to the airport would be torture!

devnull

Dublin Express start date is 3rd March, unclear which routes it will be at present.

DublinDrivers.com is indeed linked to Dublin Express and is how drivers are being recruited, it's unclear at present who any successful applicant with Dublin Drivers would actually be working for, to operate Dublin Express services.

coylemj

Domain: dublinexpress.ie
Domain Holder: National Express Group Plc
Admin-c: BFI384-IEDR
Tech-c: AUA267-IEDR
Account Name: 1API GmbH
Registrar Abuse Contact: Service not supported currently
Registration Date: 30-August-2019
Renewal Date: 30-August-2020

https://www.iedr.ie/whois-result/?whois=dublinexpress.ie

devnull

Recruitment now live for Dublin Express non driving staff at Dublinexpressjobs.com

thomasj

Under Experience, knowledge and Qualifications on that link

The ability to work shift patterns (nights, weekends and bank holidays including Christmas Day

L1011

There's flights on the 26th so there would need to be some support services to ensure the vehicles are workable that would include work on the 25th

thomasj

Ah okay, that would make sense.

devnull

Deedsie wrote: »

When will the route/stops for the 779 - Airport to CityWest be made available to the public?

All we know is that Express Bus has been given a license for a route, start date, stops and route etc are not yet known. It might not even be part of Dublin Express for all we know.

Just keep an eye on this thread, when further details are known I'm sure they will be posted, this thread is a very much a developing story and it will develop more over the next few days and weeks no doubt.

devnull

Placeholder main website now up for Dublin Express at:
https://www.dublinexpress.ie/

Note that it doesn't work without the https

devnull

From 4 February 2020, Bus Éireann and Expressway services will depart from different bus stops at Dublin Airport's Terminal 1.

Zone 11
101 Dublin Airport - Balbriggan - Drogheda
109A D.C.U. - Airport - Ratoath - Dunshaughlin - Navan - Kells
133 Dublin Airport - Dublin - Ashford - Wicklow
X12 Dublin Airport - Dublin - Portlaoise - Roscrea - Nenagh - Limerick

Zone 13
2/X2 Airport - Dublin - Arklow - Gorey - Enniscorthy - Wexford
4/X4 Dublin Airport - Dublin - Carlow - Waterford - New Ross
22 Dublin - Airport - Mullingar - Longford - Ballina
23 Dublin - Airport - Mullingar - Longford - Sligo
30/X30 Dublin - Airport - Cavan - Enniskillen - Donegal Town - West Donegal
32/X32 Dublin - Dublin Airport - Monaghan - Letterkenny

Zone 14
X8 Dublin Airport - Dublin - Cashel - Fermoy - Cork
X20/20 Dublin-Dublin Airport-Athlone-Ballinasloe-Galway
X1/X2a/xX5 Dublin - Airport - Newry - Belfast
100X Wilton Terrace - City Centre - Airport - Drogheda - Dundalk

devnull

With effect of 4th February 2020, all GoBus services at Dublin Airport will be changing the stops that they depart/arrive into.

Dublin Airport to Galway Services
All Dublin to Galway services will depart from Zone 10 from 4th February



Dublin Airport to Cork Services
All Dublin to Cork services will depart from Zone 12 from 4th February



The first post of the thread has been updated with all confirmed information.

titan18

So, is there any route going from Terminal 2 to Cork anymore, or need to walk across to Terminal 1 each time?

devnull

titan18 wrote: »

So, is there any route going from Terminal 2 to Cork anymore, or need to walk across to Terminal 1 each time?

Cork service locations

Aircoach Non Stop services to Cork will depart from Zone 11 at Terminal 1 from 3 beyond the multi-storey car park, the area where some Bus Eireann services depart from at the moment. They will not pick up at T2 but will drop off there. This will take effect from 4th March.

GoBus Non Stop services to Cork will depart from zone 12 at Terminal 1 beyond the multi-storey car park, the area where some JJ Kavanagh services depart from at the moment. They will not pick up at T2 but may drop off there. This will take effect from 4th February.

Bus Eireann Multistop services to Cork will depart from zone 14 at terminal 1, right at the back of the coach stop area beyond the multi storey car park on the left hand side. They will not pick up at T2 but may stop there. This will take effect from 3rd February.

I've attached a map of the stop zones to this thread.

coylemj

devnull wrote: »

Cork service locations

Aircoach .......... They will not pick up at T2 but will drop off there. This will take effect from 4th March.

Will that apply only to their Cork services or will Aircoach continue to set down at T2 for their other routes? I understand from earlier posts that boarding will be at zone 11 effective March 4th.