Threatening letter from a solicitor

Curious1002

Hi guys, it would be great if you could please shed some light on the best way to approach my "little problem".

My landlord for months has been serving me with termination notices using various reasons (1. Massive rent increase. 2. Substantial renovations. 3. His kid has to move in, etc). All notices i challenged with RTB and the first 2 cases I won. My last case is still in progress and i had my hearing just last week.
At the hearing my landlord learnt that my neighbours wrote me statements about their own yet the very same experience with my landlord. He owns a lot of apts in my building. At the hearing I also presented 1 audio-recording i had about him threatening my neighbours for speaking to me.

Today, just 2 days after the hearing, I got a threatening letter from my landlord's lawyers saying they will ruin me financially, seek injunction, will fight me in courts, put me in jail etc etc if:
a) i dont stop speaking to my neighbours and "forcing" them to write me statements, and
b) i dont stop recording him or taking photographs of my building, halls and car parking (i submitted a few photographic evidence to my hearing).

They gave me 7 days to respond to this letter.


My questions to you are:

1. Do i have to even respond? Can i simply ignore it and wait for an appeal of my RTB dispute (if i lose my case and appeal, or if they lose and appeal) to file the letter there as additional evidence to show what he is doing?

2. Should i open a new RTB case showing how he intimidates and threatens me and my witnesses for challenging his actions in RTB?

3. If i am required by law to reply to such ugly letter (it's really ugly and super unprofessional), how to answer so they understand that I have 100% right to speak and receive a statement from whoever i want and whoever is willing to give me such letter?

I want to protect myself from this man and audio-record all my interactions as he claimed at the last hearing that some meetings he had with me never took place or that he wasnt "in the country" on the day of some incident while in fact i have a pic of him in the car on my parking spot. Without pics and audio recording i would have zero evidence but they are super helpful.

Would be great if you could please let me know the best approach. I can't hide that my fav option would be number 1 (no reply to the letter), but dont know if I am allowed to ignore it.

Marcusm

It seems odd that a solicitor would write to you concerning the evidence presented at a tribunal while said tribunal was still ongoing (which is the case until the decision is delivered). If the landlord or his/her solicitor wished to challenge the evidence, the appropriate forum todo so is in front of the tribunal. In this case, I would forward a copy of the communication to the tribunal copying the soliciitor. IT is not the function of the tribunal to perform a marriage guidance service between landlord and tenant, however, while the matter is in front of the tribunal all such communications should be shared.

Curious1002

I did send a copy of this nasty letter to the RTB today under my case number but got a quick reply that the case file is now "closed" and no additional evidence is allowed. They said that the adjudicator will make a decision in a few weeks based on the evidence presented at the hearing.
So it looks like i have to wait until both parties get the adjudicator's final decision and then submit this letter to the Tribunal for the appeal. If i lose the adjudicator's hearing that took place last week, I will appeal for sure. I bet my landlord will do the same if he loses. But it will take weeks until i hear the final decision, while the ugly letter gives me only 7 days to reply. So I kinda dont know what to do - wait for the appeal or respond to the threatening letter.

Eric Cartman

How many more cases till you leave though, like the landlord clearly wants you gone, thats not a healthy relationship,

mickdw

Have a quick word with solicitor for guidance on letter received.

Curious1002

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How many more cases till you leave though, like the landlord clearly wants you gone, thats not a healthy relationship,

hmm, you must be a landlord yourself. I hear your concern but thankfully there is a Legislation in place to follow by both sides of the table. If someone doesnt understand the property business then they should not be in it.

Imagine an Employer who tries to get rid of a good Employee just because he wants to offer the job to his girlfriend. There is a law to prevent such situation, you know.

fritzelly

Neither a or b are criminal acts
Ignore the letter
If he wants to take a civil action (based on what I don't know) he would be laughed out of court
Report the solicitor to the Law Society

blockfighter

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How many more cases till you leave though, like the landlord clearly wants you gone, thats not a healthy relationship,

Totally agree with this. Id be stressed out if I was in this situation. And im not a landlord.
The law feels more biased towards renters than landlords in a lot of these cases.

Curious1002

fritzelly wrote: »

Neither a or b are criminal acts
Ignore the letter
If he wants to take a civil action (based on what I don't know) he would be laughed out of court
Report the solicitor to the Law Society

Thanks, i though so too! Great idea about the Law Society - will be done!:)

FishOnABike

Don't argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

As the poster above suggested talk to a solicitor if you want some assurance. Drop in to one of the FLAC clinics if money is an issue or talk to an advisor in Threshold or a Citizens Information Centre but I'd be surprised if the letter is anything more than hot air.

You can talk to whoever you like.
You can photograph in your home or a public area.
A conversation only needs one party consent to be recorded.

What does the letter threaten if you don't reply within seven days? If anything it would seem to be potential evidence of intimidation or harassment by your landlord.

My view is that any solicitor that would appear to give legitimacy to such idle threats is nothing but a thug in a suit and should be struck off.

JustAThought

or you could just stop the drama and move out.who needs that kind of poisonous relationship and worry in their life? it’ll put years on ya.theres winning snd winning.

Curious1002

blockfighter wrote: »

Totally agree with this. Id be stressed out if I was in this situation. And im not a landlord.
The law feels more biased towards renters than landlords in a lot of these cases.

I will leave on my own terms or when I get a genuine and truthful reason, not when a landlord decides that he could get more $$ from renting my flat to others. He put the same tricks on others, the very same for years now, using even the same kid excuse. There had to be someone to stop this vicious circle and finally report him.

The fact that I won the first 2 cases doesnt mean that the system is biased and gives tenants any advantage. It was a slum dunk case, Legislation is clear about it. On both cases the adjudicator gave my landlord any possible chance to oppose to my evidence and he did nothing other than saying that it's his flat and he can do what he wants with it. Well, not really, if he entered a property business, he has to play by the rules.

Curious1002

FishOnABike wrote: »

Don't argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

As the poster above suggested talk to a solicitor if you want some assurance. Drop in to one of the FLAC clinics if money is an issue or talk to an advisor in Threshold or a Citizens Information Centre but I'd be surprised if the letter is anything more than hot air.

You can talk to whoever you like.
You can photograph in your home or a public area.
A conversation only needs one party consent to be recorded.

What does the letter threaten if you don't reply within seven days? If anything it would seem to be potential evidence of intimidation or harassment by your landlord.

My view is that any solicitor that would appear to give legitimacy to such idle threats is nothing but a thug in a suit and should be struck off.

Thanks.

The letter says that if i dont respond within 7 days and confirm that I stop doing the a) and b) (in my opening post) then their "client" (my landlord) will seek an immediate court injunction against me. Also coverage of the costs of the injunction and they will commence proceedings to seek damages for the disruption to his business through harassment to his tenants. They will also seek court order to establish who my "friend" is who accompanied me when I spoke to my neighbours and they will also sue him...and finally they reserve the right to file a criminal complain of harassment of their client to gardai.

Doesnt sound right but thats how thugs operate.

TheChizler

Off to the LSRA with that letter

FishOnABike

Curious1002 wrote: »

Thanks.

The letter says that if i dont respond within 7 days and confirm that I stop doing the a) and b) (in my opening post) then their "client" (my landlord) will seek an immediate court injunction against me. Also coverage of the costs of the injunction and they will commence proceedings to seek damages for the disruption to his business through harassment to his tenants. They will also seek court order to establish who my "friend" is who accompanied me when I spoke to my neighbours and they will also sue him...and finally they reserve the right to file a criminal complain of harassment of their client to gardai.

Doesnt sound right but thats how thugs operate.

I wouldn't dignify such tripe with a response. I'd view it as nothing more than an ill considered bluff from a thug in a suit who should know better.

If you are getting legal advice to reassure yourself that you don't need to reply I'd go one step further and get advice
- if the letter (possibly combined with the repeated attempts to illegally terminate your tenancy) would meet the threshold to make a criminal complaint against the landlord for intimidation and/or harassment.
- if the letter, received while the tribunal was still ongoing, might be viewed as an attempt to pervert the course of justice and whether this might be a cause to make a criminal complaint against the landlord and/or his solicitor
- if the letter (again possibly in combination with the previous illegal attempts to terminate your tenancy) might be considered as interfering with your right to peaceful enjoyment of your home (to me making threats if you talk to your neighbours would seem so) and therefore give causeto raise a new complaint against the landlord to the residential tenancy board

I'd also, as suggested by the poster above, get advice regarding making a complaint about the landlord's solicitor to the Legal Services Regulatory Authority. Bear in mind that depending on who you talk to they might have an inclination to either close ranks and protect a fellow professional or to want to help expose the rotten apples in the profession.

To me it seems this landlord (and his solicitor) have an endless talent for shooting themselves in the foot.

If you're in Dublin, the Mercy Law Resource Centre is one service that springs to mind that might be worth talking to.

Paul_Hacket

Lots of good advice in regard to ignoring the letter above. Just ignore it. A letter from a solicitor is just a private letter, it carries zero official weight. Unless you actually are "forcing" your neighbors into writing statements for you. You didn't intimidate them in any way presumably?

Trying to dictate that you don't taking photos in public areas of the building is bollox. You can do what you want in those areas, especially if it's to document something relevant to a dispute with him in regard to your tenancy. Presumably you have a lease?

I have no idea what some people above were thinking when they suggest that you just move out because the "relationship" with him has gone toxic. What relationship? You have contracted with him to pay a certain amount of money every month in return for the usage of a property.

I presume the posters above suggesting that you just leave would also feel that any tenant should be able to walk out from a lease any time they feel like and get their deposit back on the spot? Just because the "relationship" has gone bad. No? Didn't think so.

Always Tired

He's a clueless bluffing cowboy like most of them are just ignore it.

meathstevie

If you would have intimidated, threatened and harassed people into doing something against their will it’s not a civil but a criminal matter. Any solicitor worth their salt should know that.

You are under no obligation whatsoever to reply to the letter you mentioned, it’s just a letter that’s allegedly signed by a solicitor. It’s not a court order or a warrant legally compelling you to do or stop doing something.

Curious1002

Thanks to all for the support and superb advice. All taken on board. I scheduled FLAC for yesterday but the lawyer never showed up and all appointments got cancelled. They said to come over next week but the "7 day deadline" would have passed by next Wednesday.
Received some fantastic advice on here and I am in the right place even though i must say that the letter really got into me so yes, they achieved their goal. It also shows how some solicitors use their skillful dirty language to scare law amateurs like myself and force them to seek legal advice, waste time, money and sleep over something that is a total rubbish.

Of course, that there was no "harassment" to my neighbours. I cant imagine just knocking to somebody's door and scaring the cr*p out them while handing over a pen and paper asking to sign. I didn't get statements from all, but i indeed visited all. One girl has moved in just a few months ago and she said that she likes my landlord very much and that he is a great man etc. Fair enough, she has not yet been affected by him, hopefully never will since she is renting for the high price already. I understand and respect that. I did not "force" or "scare" anyone into giving me a helping hand.

NUTLEY BOY

Read enough letters from solicitors that threaten dire consequences and they lose their power to fascinate :rolleyes: That said, it can be a very unpleasant experience to get one.

A solicitor's letter might be regarded by some as a "private" letter.
IMHO unless the letter is marked as being "without prejudice" I would see it as an open letter that enjoys no protection and that can be opened / produced in evidence.

I take it that the letter was from an actual firm of solicitors that exists as distinct from some coercive concoction from the landlord.
You can check that easily with the Law Society.

I would ignore the letter and not get drawn in to a spiral of correspondence.

I am amused by the threat to report you to Gardai as I was thinking that you are the one who should be reporting them if they continue their overbearing nonsense.
FYI here is the offence of harrassment LINK
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/10/enacted/en/html#sec10

seagull

It would seem strange that a solicitor would write something that stupid that opens them to a variety of consequences. I'd second Nutley Boy's suggestion that you check whether it was actually written by a solicitor, or was written by the landlord purporting to be from a solicitor.

seagull

seagull wrote: »

It would seem strange that a solicitor would write something that stupid that opens them to a variety of consequences. I'd second Nutley Boy's suggestion that you check whether it was actually written by a solicitor, or was written by the landlord purporting to be from a solicitor.

I received a call in work from a Legal Firm looking for my boss. They told me of an unpaid bill they were chasing him for. Whatever the rights and wrongs I'm pretty sure they knew they shouldn't be disclosing that information to me but did so to stir him to action.
Putting it in writing is a level of stupidity though. Then again there'll likely be negligible consequences so why not?

Curious1002

Yep, I checked the company, would love to put the name in here but can't for obvious reasons. Their tiny little office is in D2 and they represent my landlord for years. They started with me when i challenged my landlord's first notice and the threats doubled...which actually means that they must be scared themselves if they resort to such low blows. They also attended my recent hearing so i know they are legit.

Nowhere in the letter is a phrase "without prejudice".

I just sent a complaint to the LSRA. Dont know the process and a timeframe of it but at least this has been now reported. I bet more bully letters will follow if they see zero reaction on their recent threat. I will be happy to gather them all and send to the right authorities again.

UrbanFox

A lateral thought.

I suppose that a point will be reached in time when you will be required validly to leave in accordance with law. If the landlord wants you out before then he is always entitled to negotiate with you to determine the contract [lease] early in return for an appropriate consideration. Put another way if he wants you out of the lease now can he be tempted to buy you out early as distinct from intimidating you out ?

Curious1002

UrbanFox wrote: »

A lateral thought.

I suppose that a point will be reached in time when you will be required validly to leave in accordance with law. If the landlord wants you out before then he is always entitled to negotiate with you to determine the contract [lease] early in return for an appropriate consideration. Put another way if he wants you out of the lease now can he be tempted to buy you out early as distinct from intimidating you out ?

The above is a hypothetical situation as I am certain he will never resort to "buying me out". I dont have a lease, he never provided me with any doc, we only shook hands at the start, I paid my deposit and first rent and off you go. I even suggested to him to draft a lease agreement but he said that if he had to do it every time someone moves in he would have drown in paper work.

He is welcome to approach me with an offer but, you see, he has already burnt bridges with me so it will be hard for him. He would never "lower" himself to try to negotiate with a tenant. He was clear at all RTB hearings of what he thinks about tenants and the Legislation - both mean nothing to him. The first is a pure source of income, the second is total pain and obstacle to his business.

His choice of weapon was always the same - aggressive intimidation in person or through his legal team. It worked for a long time and with 99% of tenants until he approached me. At first he is cool, nice guy, a year later he is asking for more money and if you say no, he hands you a substantial renovation notice. If this doesnt work then yet another notice saying that his kid needs your place. The next one will be "I am selling the flat".

He and his legal team are doing everything in their power to deliberately create conditions that are uncomfortable for tenants in order to induce our willing abandonment of rented properties. Harassing me with the intention of making my living situation so uncomfortable and unbearable so I want to move is illegal and constitutes a serious penalisation.

If he ever approaches me with a monetary offer, however attractive it is, I will tell him to use the money for anti-bullying and anger management classes for him and his legal team.

Stevemr2

Curious1002 wrote: »

I will leave on my own terms or when I get a genuine and truthful reason, not when a landlord decides that he could get more $$ from renting my flat to others. He put the same tricks on others, the very same for years now, using even the same kid excuse. There had to be someone to stop this vicious circle and finally report him.

The fact that I won the first 2 cases doesnt mean that the system is biased and gives tenants any advantage. It was a slum dunk case, Legislation is clear about it. On both cases the adjudicator gave my landlord any possible chance to oppose to my evidence and he did nothing other than saying that it's his flat and he can do what he wants with it. Well, not really, if he entered a property business, he has to play by the rules.

Good on you don't be intimidated

Curious1002

To Everyone who contributed to this thread - Big Thanks. As I have no legal background, your input and support was invaluable.

I can now share with you that I just won the RTB case - the notice of termination is invalid and I was awarded €5000 in compensation. I never asked for any money but just to be allowed to live in my apt. in peace. I would gladly exchange the money to get the 10 months lost of my life back. He may appeal and if so, you will read about this case in details on the RTB website in a few months.
The complaint I sent to LSRA runs its own course, it's a slow process because the solicitor has 21 days to respond. I dont expect much, just for the solicitor to get a warning from the LSRA body really. I dont think they were ever challenged by an amateur so a combination of the lost RTB case and the LSRA complaint should give them something to think about and maybe they will stop bullying tenants.

I am really glad I listened to you and did not respond to the threatening letter.

Thanks to All again. You are a great bunch!

bucketybuck

Curious1002 wrote: »

renting my flat to others.

Curious1002 wrote: »

just to be allowed to live in my apt. in peace.

It isn't your flat.

Congratulations on your "victory" but its better to be accurate in these things.

Up Donegal

Curious1002 wrote: »

Hi guys, it would be great if you could please shed some light on the best way to approach my "little problem".

My landlord for months has been serving me with termination notices using various reasons (1. Massive rent increase. 2. Substantial renovations. 3. His kid has to move in, etc). All notices i challenged with RTB and the first 2 cases I won. My last case is still in progress and i had my hearing just last week.
At the hearing my landlord learnt that my neighbours wrote me statements about their own yet the very same experience with my landlord. He owns a lot of apts in my building. At the hearing I also presented 1 audio-recording i had about him threatening my neighbours for speaking to me.

Today, just 2 days after the hearing, I got a threatening letter from my landlord's lawyers saying they will ruin me financially, seek injunction, will fight me in courts, put me in jail etc etc if:
a) i dont stop speaking to my neighbours and "forcing" them to write me statements, and
b) i dont stop recording him or taking photographs of my building, halls and car parking (i submitted a few photographic evidence to my hearing).

They gave me 7 days to respond to this letter.


My questions to you are:

1. Do i have to even respond? Can i simply ignore it and wait for an appeal of my RTB dispute (if i lose my case and appeal, or if they lose and appeal) to file the letter there as additional evidence to show what he is doing?

2. Should i open a new RTB case showing how he intimidates and threatens me and my witnesses for challenging his actions in RTB?

3. If i am required by law to reply to such ugly letter (it's really ugly and super unprofessional), how to answer so they understand that I have 100% right to speak and receive a statement from whoever i want and whoever is willing to give me such letter?

OP, are you 100% sure the letter is actually from the landlord's lawyers, and that it wasn't concocted on a computer by the landlord, to frighten you into leaving the property? I would suggest that you show it to your own solicitor and ask his/her opinion on the letter and the content that you refer to as 'super unprofessional'. Did the letter contain the terms 'ruin me financially'; 'fight me in the courts'; 'put me in jail', or are you paraphrasing what was written?

I hope everything works out for you.

petros1980

bucketybuck wrote: »

It isn't your flat.

Congratulations on your "victory" but its better to be accurate in these things.

Hawhawhaw :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your comment is helpful how, twat.

When you rent a place it is indeed your home. Dope.

Well done OP.

bucketybuck

petros1980 wrote: »

Hawhawhaw :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your comment is helpful how, twat.

When you rent a place it is indeed your home. Dope.

Well done OP.

To provide some perspective. Because despite his "victory" he still doesn't own the flat, it still isn't his flat, and he still has the owner of the flat wanting him to get out of the flat.

Recognition of who actually owns the place may provide some perspective on what is going to happen long term and influence decisions the OP will soon have to make.

But thank you for the personal abuse, it speaks well of you.