Explaining religion to a 5 year old

detoxkid

My daughter started school this year . It's a Catholic school she has been learning prayers and about Catholic beliefs - around Christmas for example. This is obviously fair game for a Catholic school. She has started asking questions about the stuff she's learning and practising prayers at home. We christened our children but aren't mass goers or religious people. I strongly believe in bringing my kids up with good ethics and morals so when she asks questions I try to bring it back to that but I'm struggling when she repeats some of the beliefs from school back home. I want to give her the freedom to decide on this herself and don't want to be negative about Catholicism but at the same time don't want to be hypocritical. We choose the school because it's the best school locally. Has anyone else encountered this - any advice on how to handle it?

Padre_Pio

detoxkid wrote: »

My daughter started school this year . It's a Catholic school she has been learning prayers and about Catholic beliefs - around Christmas for example. This is obviously fair game for a Catholic school. She has started asking questions about the stuff she's learning and practising prayers at home. We christened our children but aren't mass goers or religious people. I strongly believe in bringing my kids up with good ethics and morals so when she asks questions I try to bring it back to that but I'm struggling when she repeats some of the beliefs from school back home. I want to give her the freedom to decide on this herself and don't want to be negative about Catholicism but at the same time don't want to be hypocritical. We choose the school because it's the best school locally. Has anyone else encountered this - any advice on how to handle it?

Personally I would try to explain Catholicism in the overall context of world religions, ie some people believe X, other people believe Y, we believe Z, no one is right or wrong in their beliefs.

JustAThought

If you are not a believer in the catholic faith and do not want to bother supporting or teaching your child why have it baptised and stand swearing with 2 godparents oaths to a god you do not believe in that you believe in the faith and will bring your child up a catholic? Take your child out if the school and do it the favour of being honest and send it to a non religious or no religion school. Dont be blocking a place in a religious school whose values you have no intention of upholding or honouring.

jlm29

JustAThought wrote: »

If you are not a believer in the catholic faith and do not want to bother supporting or teaching your child why have it baptised and stand swearing with 2 godparents oaths to a god you do not believe in that you believe in the faith and will bring your child up a catholic? Take your child out if the school and do it the favour of being honest and send it to a non religious or no religion school. Dont be blocking a place in a religious school whose values you have no intention of upholding or honouring.

Many areas don’t have an option of “taking kids out and sending them to non-religious schools”. Non-denominational schools don’t exist in most smaller towns and villages, and I’d imagine are over -subscribed in cities and bigger towns.

The government doesn’t ask what religion you practise when they collect the tax from your wages to fund the schools, so I don’t see why a tax payer (maybe the OP doesn’t pay tax, sorry for assuming) should have to send their child to a school they think is inferior educationally because of religious issues.

OP, if you feel strongly about it, you can have your child sit out the religion classes. Its probably happening more and more. It’s worth thinking about what you plan to do when it comes to communion, confirmation years.

borderlinemeath

JustAThought wrote: »

If you are not a believer in the catholic faith and do not want to bother supporting or teaching your child why have it baptised and stand swearing with 2 godparents oaths to a god you do not believe in that you believe in the faith and will bring your child up a catholic? Take your child out if the school and do it the favour of being honest and send it to a non religious or no religion school. Dont be blocking a place in a religious school whose values you have no intention of upholding or honouring.

Have you any idea how few and far between non religious/non denominational /educate together schools are?? Or how over subscribed they are? There can be very little choice for parents, it's either the local (probably catholic) school, or a waiting list for an educate together perhaps a great distance away from home and after school childcare.

I'm in the same situation for next year, opt for the best local primary, and play the lottery and put her name down for the nearest ET along with all the other lapsed catholics - mostly so they don't have to have their friends and acquaintances sneer at them - a bit like your post comes across.

Anne_cordelia

detoxkid wrote: »

My daughter started school this year . It's a Catholic school she has been learning prayers and about Catholic beliefs - around Christmas for example. This is obviously fair game for a Catholic school. She has started asking questions about the stuff she's learning and practising prayers at home. We christened our children but aren't mass goers or religious people. I strongly believe in bringing my kids up with good ethics and morals so when she asks questions I try to bring it back to that but I'm struggling when she repeats some of the beliefs from school back home. I want to give her the freedom to decide on this herself and don't want to be negative about Catholicism but at the same time don't want to be hypocritical. We choose the school because it's the best school locally. Has anyone else encountered this - any advice on how to handle it?

We explain it’s a story that some people believe but we don’t believe it. We’ve answered any questions that came from it but haven’t offered much information except for counteracting the creationist stuff with evolution. We’ve basically said people didn’t understand evolution and science years ago so came up with these stories to help them understand and explain.

blackbox

I don't understand why prayers etc. are taught during normal school hours - and funded by public money.

Fair enough doing it after school for those who want it.

SusieBlue

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Personally I would try to explain Catholicism in the overall context of world religions, ie some people believe X, other people believe Y, we believe Z, no one is right or wrong in their beliefs.

I would do this and just add that all religions fundamentally believe the same thing, show kindness to others, don’t intentionally hurt, try to lead a good honest life etc. and that all the religions interpret it differently.

I would avoid the topic of sinning and hell as I really don’t think that’s appropriate for children.
I would explain that if you hurt someone you should apologise etc. but wouldn’t touch on eternal damnation or any of that stuff with a barge pole.

Sardonicat

JustAThought wrote: »

If you are not a believer in the catholic faith and do not want to bother supporting or teaching your child why have it baptised and stand swearing with 2 godparents oaths to a god you do not believe in that you believe in the faith and will bring your child up a catholic? Take your child out if the school and do it the favour of being honest and send it to a non religious or no religion school. Dont be blocking a place in a religious school whose values you have no intention of upholding or honouring.

Where are these non religious schools in Ireland?

Sardonicat

Anne_cordelia wrote: »

We explain it’s a story that some people believe but we don’t believe it. We’ve answered any questions that came from it but haven’t offered much information except for counteracting the creationist stuff with evolution. We’ve basically said people didn’t understand evolution and science years ago so came up with these stories to help them understand and explain.

Creationist in a Catholic school?

Padre_Pio

Sardonicat wrote: »

Where are these non religious schools in Ireland?

Please don't feed the troll.

It didn't take long for someone to drag an honest question off topic.

lazygal

We don't believe in any god. So that's what we tell our children, there's probably no god no matter what they hear in school.
FWIW ours are in an educate together and they still come home parroting ****e about Islam, Christian beliefs and all other religions. It does my head it that we have to explain each and every religion is nonsense.

shesty

Yes we have this.

5 year old...God made the world, all the rest.

I do my best, if I am honest.I am not a staunch Catholic myself...if religion wasn't done in school it wouldn't bother me.It kind of...stops me in my tracks a little bit when my child comes home telling me this stuff, definitely.

That being said I am ok with my child being raised with a faith.Honestly, I have started to take her to Mass to give her context for what she is being told.I realised she has no context, no background, no bigger picture, no understanding of why on earth she is randomly being told this stuff.Mass won't answer all her questions but it gives a context for religion to her.If she decides it's not for her, that's ok.

As for answering her questions, I tend to say "people who go to our church (she knows the building as it is town centre) believe/think that God made the world", "people believe that Jesus was God's son" or whatever the question of the day is.I have no problem telling her there is a book of stories about God and Jesus called the Bible, and that book says that God made the world.But I am scientific in training myself and equally, I have no problem discussing the Big Bang theory (not the TV show!) With her, as she is very interested in stars and planets and that.(she is a sponge for knowledge).

Religion has come up for us in the context of funerals lately you see, and why is there a Mass for a dead person and why are there crosses in graveyards.I do my best to give her the factual information about religion.I am not going to pretend to her that it is responsible for all for Creation, she can take what beliefs she likes from it.I will not be telling her that one belief or the other is stupid because that is quite intolerant.My own view is that people can have their beliefs in either direction, once they don't shove them down my throat, and vice versa.

Dravokivich

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Please don't feed the troll.

It didn't take long for someone to drag an honest question off topic.

Mod:

*Ahem*

Please report posts you feel are questionable in their merit. You are also meandering from the topic by discussing this within the thread.

borderlinemeath

shesty wrote: »

Religion has come up for us in the context of funerals lately you see, and why is there a Mass for a dead person and why are there crosses in graveyards.I do my best to give her the factual information about religion.I am not going to pretend to her that it is responsible for all for Creation, she can take what beliefs she likes from it.I will not be telling her that one belief or the other is stupid because that is quite intolerant.My own view is that people can have their beliefs in either direction, once they don't shove them down my throat, and vice versa.

As a funny anecdote, my daughter is 4 and goes to a dance class in a community hall attached to the local protestant church. She has no concept of religion, but has been to a few funerals, including her granny, who's grave she visits regularly.

We passed the church in the car Sunday morning and she was worried she was missing her ballet class as the car park was full. I told her that, no, people were in mass, to which she replied "Who died?":o

shesty

We had a bit of that.And she was pointing out crosses in every fence and field we passed by😂 It is only when you start trying to explain it to a blank slate like a child that you realise it is all a bit nuts!

I guess there are just some rituals around the big things in life like death and marriage and that, and I just want them to have a context for them.Even if it isn't what they want to believe when they get bigger.Not going near hell or sins or anything like that.Totally OTT for a small child (how did we ever survive...)

Wheety

Schools can't use religion to discriminate anymore. I will not be baptising my daughter but there's a Catholic school around the corner from us, and we'll be sending her there. If she asks me about religion, as above, I'll try and explain that some people believe in one God and others believe in different ones. If she asks me, I'll be honest and tell her I don't believe in any God.

lazygal

Minority religious schools are still allowed to discriminate, as can all religious second level schools. The 'baptism barrier' only applies to Catholic primary schools. It's a good change though. At least people won't be able to use schools as an excuse any more.

Foweva Awone

My son isn't christened but he's in a catholic school, he comes home talking about the religious doctrine they teach there like it's facts. I have explained to him the difference between facts and beliefs, I tell him that I don't believe in any of it but it's fine if he wants to ... it's also fine if he ever changes his mind and doesn't want to believe in it any more. For now he believes in it, he's only six, while I'm not TOTALLY comfortable with it I guess it's no more harmful than him believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

Neyite

detoxkid wrote: »

My daughter started school this year . It's a Catholic school she has been learning prayers and about Catholic beliefs - around Christmas for example. This is obviously fair game for a Catholic school. She has started asking questions about the stuff she's learning and practising prayers at home. We christened our children but aren't mass goers or religious people. I strongly believe in bringing my kids up with good ethics and morals so when she asks questions I try to bring it back to that but I'm struggling when she repeats some of the beliefs from school back home. I want to give her the freedom to decide on this herself and don't want to be negative about Catholicism but at the same time don't want to be hypocritical. We choose the school because it's the best school locally. Has anyone else encountered this - any advice on how to handle it?

We are the same, no choice in school where we are, and aside from the Catholic ethos it's an excellent school, with excellent teachers and otherwise perfect for us.

I've just said that different people believe different things and those other religions have some different rules to Catholicism and that none of us really know for sure what's right, but that most of the different religions teach similar things -being kind to each other, not stealing or killing etc. So even though there might be differences, the important thing to remember is that.



That's all you can do really.

detoxkid

detoxkid wrote: »

any advice on how to handle it?

There was a character in Star Trek with an Indian background who used to convey his moral points through stories. I always found that nice.

I try to do the same with my kids. And when they get the moral point the story was meant to deliver I remind them the point was real - but the story was a fairy tale made up to package it. They should hold on to the point - use the story to remember it - but not believe the story because to do so without any reason would be really silly.

When it comes to discussing religion with my kids then - the ground work is already done. I need do no more with them than tell them this is just another example of the above. It's all just more Panchatantra.

kandr10

Could be worth asking for the grow in live book to be sent home occasionally. There are pages in each unit to be read at home which might put into context for you where the questions are coming from. Incidentally, most discussions centre around being kind to each other etc. I’ve not really come across hell and damnation in primary school and I distinctly remember the Big Bang theory being taught in the old programme. I haven’t come across it yet in the new programme, but I’ve not yet taught all levels with it.

lazygal

kandr10 wrote: »

Could be worth asking for the grow in live book to be sent home occasionally. There are pages in each unit to be read at home which might put into context for you where the questions are coming from. Incidentally, most discussions centre around being kind to each other etc. I’ve not really come across hell and damnation in primary school and I distinctly remember the Big Bang theory being taught in the old programme. I haven’t come across it yet in the new programme, but I’ve not yet taught all levels with it.

Grow in Love is awful. Encourages children to draw the crucifixion, what kind of person wants children drawing pictures of a man being torturered to death. And also has the "Mary says yes" story where a child is encouraged to say yes to any authority figure once it is religious. Just such a toxic message.

You christened your child into the Catholic religion.
If you're not religious why did you do this?
It's your own fault now.
Explain to your child that you made her be part of a church you don't believe in.

RentDayBlues

I detest grow in love! We’re on the second child now going through juniors and she’s taking a lot more in than the eldest so we’re faced with lots of questions.

The party line here is: some people believe that and it’s up to you to decide what you want to believe in

It’s a waste of time and resources and the sooner it’s removed from schools the better

seannash

Foweva Awone wrote: »

My son isn't christened but he's in a catholic school, he comes home talking about the religious doctrine they teach there like it's facts. I have explained to him the difference between facts and beliefs, I tell him that I don't believe in any of it but it's fine if he wants to ... it's also fine if he ever changes his mind and doesn't want to believe in it any more. For now he believes in it, he's only six, while I'm not TOTALLY comfortable with it I guess it's no more harmful than him believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

This,
If you dont believe just admit it to yourself and your child. Tell them they are just stories people tell to teach them right and wrong

lazygal

RentDayBlues wrote: »

I detest grow in love! We’re on the second child now going through juniors and she’s taking a lot more in than the eldest so we’re faced with lots of questions.

The party line here is: some people believe that and it’s up to you to decide what you want to believe in

It’s a waste of time and resources and the sooner it’s removed from schools the better

It's just all sorts of wrong. Seeing little children chanting these horrible prayers and thinking they have sins and that they should draw a dying man. Baffles me that so many teachers think it's lovely and parents go along with it.

kandr10

lazygal wrote: »

Grow in Love is awful. Encourages children to draw the crucifixion, what kind of person wants children drawing pictures of a man being torturered to death. And also has the "Mary says yes" story where a child is encouraged to say yes to any authority figure once it is religious. Just such a toxic message.

I’m not really out to defend it or put it down as a programme. Like any text book it has its pros and cons. Again, having a look through the relevant ‘at home’ sections would give context as to how crucifixion (as an example) is brought up for a child’s particular age group. It might just help the op to frame their response to their child if they can see what exactly has been taught and discussed. That response may still be disagreement but it’s easier to frame it for the age group with the full information on what has been covered.

lazygal

kandr10 wrote: »

I’m not really out to defend it or put it down as a programme. Like any text book it has its pros and cons. Again, having a look through the relevant ‘at home’ sections would give context as to how crucifixion (as an example) is brought up for a child’s particular age group. It might just help the op to frame their response to their child if they can see what exactly has been taught and discussed. That response may still be disagreement but it’s easier to frame it for the age group with the full information on what has been covered.

I don't think a child needs to know about a man being tortured in any context.

kandr10

lazygal wrote: »

I don't think a child needs to know about a man being tortured in any context.

And as such you’ve chosen not to send your child to a catholic school. I’m sure most people who agree to have their child take part in re lessons are aware that crucifixion is a big part of Catholicism.
My point again is that looking at the book that’s being used will lend context to the op.

eviltwin

Non religious in our house and very fortunate to have a place in an ET for my son. We tell him the usual spiel that everyone has their own beliefs on different things and should be respected etc etc. One of the benefits of the ET system is that this is their default so the message we give is reinforced at school which is great. It must be difficult to try and teach your child all faiths should be treated equally when the education system promotes one over all others.

shesty

lazygal wrote: »

It's just all sorts of wrong. Seeing little children chanting these horrible prayers and thinking they have sins and that they should draw a dying man. Baffles me that so many teachers think it's lovely and parents go along with it.

I seriously doubt you will find teachers out there thinking it's lovely....more like one more thing they have to cram into a day of subjects.Parents just don't really have a choice.Personally I would happy for religion to be taken out of schools and if you want your child to have a religious education you should go put the effort in yourself, but clearly that idea has yet to gain enough traction to take off.

We don't do change very well in Ireland.

Neyite

lazygal wrote: »

I don't think a child needs to know about a man being tortured in any context.

I'm loath to defend the RCC but the entire religion was based on the man being tortured. :pac: They can't teach Catholicism without it. The Crucifix is basically the staple symbol of Catholicism. These days thankfully they gloss over a fair bit of the gory stuff we had taught to us at that age and religion class is steered more towards love and kindness than hell and damnation.

For what it's worth, I agree that religion is something that should be taken out of our schools curriculum entirely, and ideally have a Sunday School system for parents who want to teach their children the faith instead. But I fear that's rather too...Protestant for the high-ups in the RCC to implement. Ditto with female or married priests.

Dravokivich

lazygal wrote: »

Grow in Love is awful. Encourages children to draw the crucifixion, what kind of person wants children drawing pictures of a man being torturered to death. And also has the "Mary says yes" story where a child is encouraged to say yes to any authority figure once it is religious. Just such a toxic message.

I'm not really too unsettled by that, my son learned of sacrifice through Terminator 2.

My only issue with it is the "At Home" segments that focus on praying. Other than that, it's just another workbook.

shesty

It probably says everything about my child's religious education that not once has any mention of 'At Home' stuff come my way.I haven't laid eyes on the book since I sent it in in September.

Neyite

shesty wrote: »

It probably says everything about my child's religious education that not once has any mention of 'At Home' stuff come my way.I haven't laid eyes on the book since I sent it in in September.

Same as us. :pac:

Digs

shesty wrote: »

It probably says everything about my child's religious education that not once has any mention of 'At Home' stuff come my way.I haven't laid eyes on the book since I sent it in in September.

Lol have to agree! My daughter was in a multi denom Gaelscoil and we moved her to a Gaelscoil a little further away which so happens to be RC. I have never laid eyes on her religion books nor am I inundated with questions from her but that’s probably because she’s too busy asking every single question that fills her waking moments

OP when our daughter does ask us questions, generally stemming from funerals, weddings etc we ask her what she thinks and how she feels about it. As with all aspects of life we want to encourage our children to develop their own thoughts on it. We tell her what we believe but then follow it up with how others may feel differently and encourage her to do the same while tolerating how others feel. Moving her to an RC school has changed absolutely nothing for us (except that coincidentally our experiences with the schools have been night and day but that has nothing to do with this topic!).

CheerLouth

We must be in the minority who do actually do the religion homework with our little girl. We've always done bedtime prayers and now our little girl is adding in her own prayer that she has learned at school and she says the Grace before we have our dinner. I like the idea that she has some faith to keep her comforted should she ever need it down the line.

That said, we do not agree with all of the concepts of the catholic church & nor to do we encourage her to believe with a blind faith.

seannash

CheerLouth wrote: »

nor to do we encourage her to believe with a blind faith.

So evidence based faith.... So science?

CheerLouth

What I am saying is that we don't encourage to believe everything everyone tells her and that goes for everything in life, not just religion.

seannash

CheerLouth wrote: »

What I am saying is that we don't encourage to believe everything everyone tells her and that goes for everything in life, not just religion.

Okay, thats fair enough and in fairness is a good way to have her make up her own mind. just curious, do you tell her god is real?
Also if she isnt to believe everything and everyone she hears what do tell her when she asks "how do i know what's the truth"

Not trying to pick holes, i just dont know how anyone can explain faith but not believe blindly and id be curious to hear how you'd balance that

shesty

CheerLouth wrote: »

I like the idea that she has some faith to keep her comforted should she ever need it down the line.

That said, we do not agree with all of the concepts of the catholic church & nor to do we encourage her to believe with a blind faith.

This is exactly how I feel.

CheerLouth

seannash wrote: »

Okay, thats fair enough and in fairness is a good way to have her make up her own mind. just curious, do you tell her god is real?
Also if she isnt to believe everything and everyone she hears what do tell her when she asks "how do i know what's the truth"

Not trying to pick holes, i just dont know how anyone can explain faith but not believe blindly and id be curious to hear how you'd balance that

She has never asked me if God is real or not so we haven't come to that yet. No doubt it will happen and then I will tell her that I believe he is (which I do) but also that plenty of people don't believe and that's fine too. At this point, she is happy to say her prayers and our religion practice is basically being kind to each other & everyone that we meet & saying our prayers at bedtime.

I don't know about blind belief but I do believe that there is a God of some description but do I believe everything that the Catholic church tells me I should - absolutely not.

AngryLoner

My 5 year old goes to Educate Together (because, like OP, it was the nearest and best school) so they haven't really touched on religion yet much. But when my kid does ask questions I'll just say some people believe X, some people believe Y but in reality it's all a great mystery ... a puzzle yet to be solved... that should keep his head busy...