Arrested but not convicted.

dartboardio

Hi, does conviction mean you have been charged and brought to court or prison with something?

I have been arrested and made a statement for something, not issued or charged with any charge sheet. Basically just let home and they'll be in touch.

Does this go on my criminal record?

I have been invited for an interview in the public service. What kind of questions will they ask in relation to this? Or if I've never been to court will it even show up?

_Brian

As explained to me

An conviction is the outcome of a court case.
Being arrested for something is not a conviction and will not leave you with a criminal record.

dartboardio

_Brian wrote: »

As explained to me

An conviction is the outcome of a court case.
Being arrested for something is not a conviction and will not leave you with a criminal record.

Thank you. I couldn't find the definition online.

So if I was to get garda vetted for a public service job, nothing much would show up? (I had absolutely nothing on record before this, no arrests or cautions etc)

Darc19

If vetted, it will show up that you were arrested.

If no charge is made, the arrest record will stay on pulse, but may not be mentioned.

This is a problem with pulse. Even if you are totally innocent and falsely arrested or arrested due to wrong information, the record of arrest is there.

Currently, there's no quick way of deleting an arrest record

_Brian

I do Garda vetting for clients.
I know for a fact one chap was convicted of drunk driving a Number of years ago and it wasn’t highlighted.

I asked my boss and he said it was a motoring offence and only criminal convictions would be a problem. But maybe it was too old to be flagged.

If you weren’t charged and convicted in court I don’t think you will have an issue.

Samuel T. Cogley

It will probably get flagged and may delay things but it's unlikely to be a problem. Keep schtum about it in the interview.

dartboardio

If i was to contact the Gardaí and ask them about it would they be of any help do you think? To confirm what my current 'record' is or what would show/ be flagged on a vetting?

drunkmonkey

You made a statement, it's under review. You may have a day in court if they decide to try and convict you.

robman60

Some incorrect info here. An arrest is not a record and would not show up on a vetting form. That just shows convictions or pending prosecutions. If this was recent, it is possible that it will be pursued and as such it could be pending. If it was very recent, it may not even be pending yet but you will not get the vetting back until a determination has been made on whether it will be prosecuted or not.

yosser hughes

Darc19 wrote: »

If vetted, it will show up that you were arrested.

Nope

dartboardio

robman60 wrote: »

Some incorrect info here. An arrest is not a record and would not show up on a vetting form. That just shows convictions or pending prosecutions. If this was recent, it is possible that it will be pursued and as such it could be pending. If it was very recent, it may not even be pending yet but you will not get the vetting back until a determination has been made on whether it will be prosecuted or not.

I was arrested and made statements just over a month ago.

I wonder is it pending yet. I haven't heard a thing. I didn't get any letter of charge or anything either when I left the Garda station.

drunkmonkey

You won't hear a thing unless they decide to pursue you. Did you give a copy of the statement to your solicitor or get their advice before giving a statement.
If you committed a crime and made a statement to that effect you'll more than likely end up in court and be prosecuted as it's an easy win with a confession/statement.

tuxy

_Brian wrote: »

I asked my boss and he said it was a motoring offence and only criminal convictions would be a problem. But maybe it was too old to be flagged.

How long ago? If 7 years or more it will be considered a spent conviction since it's a minor offence.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/spent_convictions.html

Spent convictions don't show up on vetting for most jobs. Or am I wrong?

_Brian

tuxy wrote: »

How long ago? If 7 years or more it will be considered a spent conviction since it's a minor offence.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/spent_convictions.html

Spent convictions don't show up on vetting for most jobs. Or am I wrong?

Yea it would be more.

JustAThought

_Brian wrote: »

As explained to me

An conviction is the outcome of a court case.
Being arrested for something is not a conviction and will not leave you with a criminal record.

until they press charges and then you are conviced and lose your job for not revealing all the facts when required in advance.People dont like to work with criminals and those who break the law. particularly when they will be working with them for the rest of their life- why not give the job to someone honest and reward the good.

hullaballoo

Just a few clarifications.

Motoring convictions are criminal convictions. There is no such thing in this country as a conviction that isn't criminal. So even a conviction for an unpaid parking ticket is a criminal conviction.

Certain convictions, predominantly those under the Road Traffic Acts are scheduled as minor and can be spent.

Some scheduled organisations get the full gamut of criminal history, including so-called spent convictions.

Garda vetting is not a perfect science and sometimes things are missed. This will benefit some applicants who have a relevant criminal history but whose vetting comes back clear so to speak.

Garda vetting generally provides information in relation to the 2 categories already named, recorded convictions and prosecutions pending. However, depending on the nature of the roll in respect of which vetting is sought and a number of other factors, soft information such as allegations of harm can be disclosed under vetting. This is covered under the "specified information" provisions of the legislation and if this sort of information is going to be disclosed, the applicant is informed and can appeal that prospective decision or withdraw the application.

Finally, people generally do not get arrested and brought in for questioning (or to make a statement to use Garda parlance) for minor offences so if that is what happened here, it might be a more serious matter. That said it may have no implications for vetting if it isn't something the organisation seeking vetting is concerned about.

Peregrinus

To add to what Hullaballoo says, where "specified information" like allegations or investigations that never led to a charge are disclosed, this will normally be in connection with some sensitive role (e.g. where you will be caring for children or vulnerable adults) and the material that gets disclosed will be relevant to that role. So if you're applying for a job where you will be handling large amounts of money, an allegation or investigation for (say) domestic violence will not be disclosed as specified information; it's not relevant to your honesty or financial probity. Whereas if you were applying for a job as a residential care assistant it might be.

Plus, if specified information of this kind is to be disclosed, you wil be told this in advance, and the nature of the information that is to be disclosed will be outlined to you, and you will have an opportunity to comment.

dartboardio

Thanks for the advice people!

And just last question, do I bring the vetting form to be completed by Gardaí and then can see what's on the form for myself? Or will that be all enveloped up etc.

Think I'm gonna leave it until I know for certain. It's only a temporary job anyway.

And yes - I committed a crime, I made a mistake and won't be going against the law again - being brought in for questioning was scary enough as it is -

Always Tired

JustAThought wrote: »

until they press charges and then you are conviced and lose your job for not revealing all the facts when required in advance.People dont like to work with criminals and those who break the law. particularly when they will be working with them for the rest of their life- why not give the job to someone honest and reward the good.

Uh, that's not what happened though, or is going to happen.
There isnt anyone 'pressing charges', there are no facts that should lead to a disqualification for employment. There is no court date, and you might not be aware but even very small matters are usually put back multiple times for months and months. You can actually be arrested and not be a criminal, you do realize? Don't you?

You're just casting judgement and going on a silly rant about 'people dont like criminals' and something about honesty. The interview process will only ask about convictions if anything at all. This is actually why the vetting is there, to disclose what is necessary. Getting arrested and not charged shouldn't disqualify someone.

Seriously what a ridiculous interpretation of the situation and simplistic view of it as well.

s7ryf3925pivug

JustAThought wrote: »

until they press charges and then you are conviced and lose your job for not revealing all the facts when required in advance.People dont like to work with criminals and those who break the law. particularly when they will be working with them for the rest of their life- why not give the job to someone honest and reward the good.

Not everyone who is arrested is guilty. Not all crimes involve dishonesty. Personally I'd pick a guy with an unspecified arrest and a straightforward attitude over someone who is judgmental without knowing any facts.

gozunda

Misael Savory Spat wrote: »

Not everyone who is arrested is guilty. Not all crimes involve dishonesty. Personally I'd pick a guy with an unspecified arrest and a straightforward attitude over someone who is judgmental without knowing any facts.

Any employer would certainly not want a employee especially one who is dishonest and judgemental imo

Duke of Url

Sorry to Hijack this thread but I have a question thats related

What happens if you receive a Criminal Conviction but then it is overturned on appeal.

Will it still show up that you have been convicted or is it removed?

What would you fill out when you apply for a job and the question pops up.

smelly sock

robman60 wrote: »

Some incorrect info here. An arrest is not a record and would not show up on a vetting form. That just shows convictions or pending prosecutions. If this was recent, it is possible that it will be pursued and as such it could be pending. If it was very recent, it may not even be pending yet but you will not get the vetting back until a determination has been made on whether it will be prosecuted or not.

This. Only a conviction for a crime will be disclosed in the vetting process. And rightfully so. You can't have employers or other organisations discriminating or making judgements against totally innocent people.

smelly sock

Duke of Url wrote: »

Sorry to Hijack this thread but I have a question thats related

What happens if you receive a Criminal Conviction but then it is overturned on appeal.

Will it still show up that you have been convicted or is it removed?

What would you fill out when you apply for a job and the question pops up.

No it will not. You are not guilty. So you leave that question blank.

Peregrinus

smelly sock wrote: »

This. Only a conviction for a crime will be disclosed in the vetting process. And rightfully so. You can't have employers or other organisations discriminating or making judgements against totally innocent people.

Depends. As already pointed out, "specified information" which is about things other than convictions may be disclosed in some circumstances.

If you have never been convicted of a sexual offence, but have been acquitted in three separate trial involving different incidents and were a person of interest in two other investigations, will this information turn up on your vetting report when you apply for a position as warden of a children's home? Hell, yes.

dartboardio

I'm gonna leave off the interview, it's only for a temporary contract anyway.

Id only be worrying about it being mentioned the whole way through the interview.

Have a full time permanent job at the moment anyway but would have been nice to try a different sector..

The arrest was only recently aswell too so I'll probably wait until I have further clarification before applying for any more public sector jobs.

Thanks for the advice!

smelly sock

Peregrinus wrote: »

Depends. As already pointed out, "specified information" which is about things other than convictions may be disclosed in some circumstances.

If you have never been convicted of a sexual offence, but have been acquitted in three separate trial involving different incidents and were a person of interest in two other investigations, will this information turn up on your vetting report when you apply for a position as warden of a children's home? Hell, yes.

Yeh but thats the exception to the rule to be fair. The OP is looking for a job in the public service and is innocent of any crime.

Peregrinus

smelly sock wrote: »

Yeh but thats the exception to the rule to be fair. The OP is looking for a job in the public service and is innocent of any crime.

Well, we don't know that he's innocent of any crime. He has been arrested and has given a statement; he hasn't been charged but thinks that he might be. He hasn't, obviously, been convicted, but he himself says nothing about whether he is guilty or innocent.

But your general point is correct. It wouild be fairly unusual for any "specified information" to be disclosed in a garda vettting. But the fact that the job concerned is in the public service doesn't tell us very much about whether specified information might be disclosed; lots of e.g. child protection jobs are public service jobs, and those are precisely the kind of jobs where specified information would be disclosed. The OP tells us nothing about the job for which they are applying.

The main takeaway to bear in mind is that, if specified information is going to be disclosed about you, they tell you in advance that they are going to do this. So you will know about it, and it won't take you by surprise. If you don't want to deal with it or explain or justify it you can always withdraw your application for whatever position it is.

drunkmonkey

dartboardio wrote: »

The arrest was only recently aswell too so I'll probably wait until I have further clarification before applying for any more public sector jobs.

You were arrested that isn't a crime, you don't have a criminal conviction. Talk to a solicitor or barrister, the object of the game now is not to get a conviction.
Depending on what you did a donation to the court poor box might make it go away but you need good legal advice.
Making the statement without consulting a solicitor has weakened your hand but it does not necessairly mean you will end up with a criminal record, besides vetting, traveling could become a problem.

s7ryf3925pivug

Peregrinus wrote: »

Well, we don't know that he's innocent of any crime. He has been arrested and has given a statement; he hasn't been charged but thinks that he might be. He hasn't, obviously, been convicted, but he himself says nothing about whether he is guilty or innocent.

But your general point is correct. It wouild be fairly unusual for any "specified information" to be disclosed in a garda vettting. But the fact that the job concerned is in the public service doesn't tell us very much about whether specified information might be disclosed; lots of e.g. child protection jobs are public service jobs, and those are precisely the kind of jobs where specified information would be disclosed. The OP tells us nothing about the job for which they are applying.

The main takeaway to bear in mind is that, if specified information is going to be disclosed about you, they tell you in advance that they are going to do this. So you will know about it, and it won't take you by surprise. If you don't want to deal with it or explain or justify it you can always withdraw your application for whatever position it is.

I think the point is that you are supposed to be assumed to be innocent.

Am I right to think that they would still release the info after informing him though? It might not just be that he doesn't want to talk about it, but just doesn't want them to hear about it at all. Reputation is important and the info could spread beyond whomever it is released to.

Peregrinus

In the criminal process, you're presumed to be innocent until actually convicted.

That doesn't mean that you are innocent, of course; just that you are treated as innocent in the criminal process.

You're not necessarily treated as innocent by the whole world. There may well be people out there who know very well that you are guilty because, e.g., they are witnesses to or victims of your crime. It is unrealistic to hope that they will treat you as innocent.

And, in this context, it's unrealistic to expect an employer to treat you as innocent if he knows you are the subject of a serious investigation into your guilt.

To put this in context, "specified information" can only released where the Chief Bureau Officer:

- reasonably believes that the information is of such a nature as to give rise to a bona fide concern that the vetting subject may harm, attempt to harm or put at risk of harm, a child or vulnerable person;

is satisfied that the disclosure of this information is necessary, proportionate and reasonable in the circumstances for the protection of children or vulnerable persons.

The Chief Bureau Officer Officer will tell you that he is considering releasing information of this kind, and will invite you to make submissions. You'll have at least 14 days to do that. If, despite your submissions, the CBO decides to release the information, he'll tell you of that decision, and his reasons for making it. You'll then have a further 14 days to appeal the decision to an appeals officer. If you do appeal, the information won't be released until after the appeal is decided (and, even then, of course, only if the appeal is unsuccessful).

Even at this point you can still withdraw your vetting application, which means that the Vetting Bureau will not release your information to the prospective employer. But they will tell the employer that you have withdrawn your application - otherwise the employer will keep expecting the vetting report. The result will be, of course, that your application for employment will be rejected. The employer may also think that there would have been some negative information in your vetting report but, of course, will have no idea what it would have been. And you can try to minimise even this by withdrawing your job application, if necessary telling a white lie about having accepted a different job or something of the kind, and saying that because your application is not proceeding you have withdrawn your vetting application.

smelly sock

If the OP tells us the actual nature of the incident we might be able to adivse based on experience.

I work with a guy in the PS that has two legacy convictions for assault (30 years ago). PAS decided to let local management here make a call on it when the convictions appeared in his vetting. LM retained him.

If I were him depending on the nature of the incident I would be totally up front and honest. Declare the investigation. Trying to hide it looks a lot worse and even implicates guilt.

tuxy

smelly sock wrote: »

If the OP tells us the actual nature of the incident we might be able to adivse based on experience.

The OP has decided not to go for the job and has moved on.