Why are people so quick to slate people with degrees?

I am me123

Anyone noticed that some people are so quick to slate people who have degrees? For example, 'Person A has a degree but is useless at their job'
Surely earning a degree proves in itself the person is a hard worker, determined, and obviouly has some kind of intelligence?
Im sure anyone with a degree would agree that you just dont get handed out one for doing nothing?
Thoughts?

the_pen_turner

Being highly intelligent and hard worker does mean there arnt useless now.

I am me123

I am me123 wrote: »

Anyone noticed that some people are so quick to slate people who have degrees? For example, 'Person A has a degree but is useless at their job'
Surely earning a degree proves in itself the person is a hard worker, determined, and obviouly has some kind of intelligence?
Im sure anyone with a degree would agree that you just dont get handed out one for doing nothing?
Thoughts?

True, but the workplace is a different level. For staters someone is paying you a wage where you can making a living i.e. not cheap so you have to perfom.

I've a professional qualification (masters level) and an Honours degree - in relation to work they're necessary to get your foot in the door, but on the job experience will always trump it.

A lot of people have degrees now, and not everyone is a good worker - therefore you're going to have people with degrees and not good at their job. Some even spend too much time on Boards.ie

endacl

A degree is what the leaving Cert used to be.

I am me123

Thank you.


Would you agree that getting an third level education is a waste of time & money in most cases?

I am me123

I am me123 wrote: »

Thank you.


Would you agree that getting an third level education is a waste of time & money in most cases?

No. How did you come to that conclusion?

The Phantom Jipper

I've literally never heard a person being slagged off in relation to having a degree in any job I've been in.

Sono Topolino

Because in most cases, a third level education provides you with very little in terms of soft skills (and even technical skills!) to use in the working world - how to collaborate well with others, how to use IT tools in solving business problems, how to deal with difficult clients etc. However, students act as though their education means that they're more qualified for a job even though in most cases degrees have tenuous link to their career.

For example, I work in tax even though I have an arts degree. Most of my colleagues have a BComm or BESS degree. Does having a business/commerce background make them better at their job? I don't think so. Possibly it made a difference in the initial few weeks of the trainee-ship but now it makes no difference.

is_that_so

I am me123 wrote: »

Thank you.


Would you agree that getting an third level education is a waste of time & money in most cases?

It depends what you get out of it and what you use it to do. For the learning it's still a good thing to do. Showing up for four years is all it says to most employers. A fair number of people are barely employable when they finish and in some fields. notably IT, they have expectations wildly above the abilities.

is_that_so

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

I've literally never heard a person being slagged off in relation to having a degree in any job I've been in.

There are issues around knowledge and actual skills, in areas like IT. This is not necessarily the fault of graduates but some can display very limited grasp of what they have learnt. Give them a couple of years and some can bounce back.

sheepsh4gger

I am me123 wrote: »

Anyone noticed that some people are so quick to slate people who have degrees? For example, 'Person A has a degree but is useless at their job'
Surely earning a degree proves in itself the person is a hard worker, determined, and obviouly has some kind of intelligence?
Im sure anyone with a degree would agree that you just dont get handed out one for doing nothing?
Thoughts?

Maybe because some think that's enough and they will never need to learn anything new in their life.
Specifically in I.T. there's lots of people with supposed education that don't understand elementary stuff like TCP/IP or basics of cryptography (like what's a public or private key, what makes communication secure and what doesn't).
So whether someone has a degree or not doesn't really tell you how they will perform.
Also there's a lot of guys who say learn Basic, Pascal or whatever flavor of the year language and haven't bothered to update their skills in 10 years. So today they are completely useless for anything other than maintaining old systems and can't be even bothered to say learn how to make Android or iOS apps. With guys here you often find that they never stepped out of their comfort zone.

antix80

I am me123 wrote: »

Surely earning a degree proves in itself the person is a hard worker, determined, and obviouly has some kind of intelligence?

Nope. Some degrees are truly worthless.

Tom Dunne

antix80 wrote: »

Nope. Some degrees are truly worthless.

Go on then, give us an example.

beauf

I am me123 wrote: »

Anyone noticed that some people are so quick to slate people who have degrees? For example, 'Person A has a degree but is useless at their job'
Surely earning a degree proves in itself the person is a hard worker, determined, and obviouly has some kind of intelligence?
Im sure anyone with a degree would agree that you just dont get handed out one for doing nothing?
Thoughts?

That's because they are useless at their job. End of.

nthclare

I've a diploma in horticulture going back to the 90's, took me 3 year's of study to get my diploma, now you can get a degree in the 3 year's ffs

I remember my first job in horticulture was in a huge nursery outside Edinburgh, in a place called Loanhead.

Myself and a guy from London started together, he had a degree in horticulture from one of the best horticulture course's in the UK.

He was one of the most useless bstrds I ever came across, more brain than common sense.
Ask him to keep his area clean and it was beneath him.

I'm in the horticultural game since 1989 and I assure you the degree's they're getting nowadays in Ireland might as well be a 12 week course.

In my line of work you've to get your hands dirty, it's not all about fancy garden designer's and getting others to do the work because your qualification gives you the justification to be an arrogant little cnut....

If you can't get your hands dirty in my line of work well you may as well wipe your arse with your degree, because it's useless.

Tom Dunne

nthclare wrote: »

I've a diploma in horticulture going back to the 90's, took me 3 year's of study to get my diploma, now you can get a degree in the 3 year's ffs

A Level 7 degree today is the equivalent of the old 3-year diplomas.



A level 8 honours degree can be achieved in 3 years in some institutions, but it is important to appreciate that the number of years is not a good indicator of quality/equivalence. The number of credits for a programme ultimately determine the amount of weekly time (contact/non-contact hours) a student must undertake. So a 3-year, Level 8 honours degree might (should) have more weekly hours effort required than a 4 year honours degree.

reklamos

I think this is because some, after just getting 3rd level degree think they know everything and look down on others that don't have one.
These types need to be put back on the ground. They usually come down quickly themselves once they realize that having degree does not automatically open all the doors and there is no 6 figure salary waiting for them.

Sir Guy who smiles

There used to be jobs where some people came into it via degree courses and some via apprenticeship; nurses and actuaries used to be like that.

In that case the apprentice would have much more practical experience than the recent graduate, who would take a while to catch up.

When they did catch up, perhaps their academic background would stand to them as they explored different parts of their field.

Or perhaps they just had a good time in college.

Tefral

Having completed a degree and have had "the school of hard knocks" experience before that, I would say a degree is more about perseverance than actual intelligence.

I'm an external examiner for a degree course to ensure it lines up with my industry also.

I wouldn't say people slate people with degrees, its certainly not been my experience. I have got the odd jibe off the site based staff saying they would love my soft job, but they can walk away at 5 an if the place burned down it wouldn't worry them, where as my job is more stressful because it does affect me.

My advice to my family members looking at going for a degree has been this:

"If it doesnt have your job in the name of the degree, then its not really worth it" I dont mean that as a slight on Arts degrees etc, i just mean if you wanted to by a Physio, then do a Physio degree. Want to be a Aeronautical engineer, do an Aeronautical engineers degree. Want to be a Quantity Surveyor, do a BSc in Quantity Surveying

Tom Dunne

Tefral wrote: »

I would say a degree is more about perseverance than actual intelligence.

If my recent performance at an online family quiz night is anything to go by, I would be in full agreement with you!

kowloon

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Go on then, give us an example.

Bachelor of Homeopathic Medicine and Surgery is a thing.

IAMAMORON

I wasted 5 years in college studying for a degree which I have rarely used in my professional life. It could be argued that I learnt how to write longer reports, that is all. I could have been off touring the world at the age when you are young and free and it is worth seeing. Instead I sat on a bus for 2 hours a day and hung around the SU smoking fags, joints and drinking coffee. I sometimes also ate crisps or went to the bookies, but you get my gist.

The reality of Irish 3rd level is that it was a great way of soothing our unemployment figures in the mid 80's and early 90's. Before the Celtic Tiger, either your family got you a job through connections, you emigrated or your unemployment was suspended for 3-4 years while you studied.

Things like Business and Arts degrees are basically pointless. I know, I have both. You could learn the entire syllabus of both my degrees without attending lectures if you applied yourself. I think you can apply the same argument for a Law degree, you would learn more studying in the Kings Inn or the Law Library than you will in either NUI or TCU, or anywhere else.

I cannot comment on medicine degrees or engineering ones, I am not that clever, but I am sure either alumni would be capable of offering educational economies to either form of learning.

One last thing, some, if not all of the best business leaders, CEO's and entrepreneurs I have been lucky enough to work with all got to where they are through cold hard work ( and a lot of luck it must be said ). They would all attest to that, many of them did not even have a Leaving Cert.

IAMAMORON

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I wasted 5 years in college studying for a degree which I have rarely used in my professional life. It could be argued that I learnt how to right longer reports, that is all. I could have been off touring the world at the age when you are young and free and it is worth seeing. Instead I sat on a bus for 2 hours a day and hung around the SU smoking fags, joints and drinking coffee. I sometimes also ate crisps or went to the bookies, but you get my gist.

The reality of Irish 3rd level is that it was a great way of soothing our unemployment figures in the mid 80's and early 90's. Before the Celtic Tiger, either your family got you a job through connections, you emigrated or your unemployment was suspended for 3-4 years while you studied.

Things like Business and Arts degrees are basically pointless. I know, I have both. You could learn the entire syllabus of both my degrees without attending lectures if you applied yourself. I think you can apply the same argument for a Law degree, you would learn more studying in the Kings Inn or the Law Library than you will in either NUI or TCU, or anywhere else.

I cannot comment on medicine degrees or engineering ones, I am not that clever, but I am sure either alumni would be capable of offering educational economies to either form of learning.

One last thing, some, if not all of the best business leaders, CEO's and entrepreneurs I have been lucky enough to work with all got to where they are through cold hard work ( and a lot of luck it must be said ). They would all attest to that, many of them did not even have a Leaving Cert.

Apart from family firms very few MDs or CEO's won't have a degree. Vanishingly few I imagine.

You've probably underestimated the benefit of your degrees. But, take your logic further. What's the point of education, what did geography or history do to make you now employable? Possibly lots by making you a more rounded individual that's better at thinking and critical analysis. By your logic we should only study Maths and maybe English (or is that stretching it?).

Now. Where I'll partially agree with you is that one can get a low level degree without putting in much effort, but those fully engaging will benefit from the education.

reklamos

I think the public's view on 3rd level education is wrong.
There many who have 3rd level degree but work in a job completely unrelated to it. The only reason why they got one was because it was trendy and mammy/daddy pushed to get one. When I say to get one means any 3rd level degree. This concept is really flawed as kids that have just out of school are doing degrees that they not interested in. So many either fall within 1st year and get demotivated, while others get a degree that they don't know what to do with. Because some degrees are more trendy than others the job market is also gets messed up as you can see them coming in waves. Then you get this situation were degree loses value.

IAMAMORON

I think leaving cert students should work/travel for a couple of years before commencing any 3rd level. Not in every case , but the reality is that at that age most kids haven't a notion what they want to do. A couple of years paying rent and fending for yourself would soon put you in the right direction.

Tom Dunne

kowloon wrote: »

Bachelor of Homeopathic Medicine and Surgery is a thing.

Where? Seriously, I have been involved in a number of approval boards for degree programmes and I would be very, very surprised if that was approved.



Genuine query, I'm not trying to be facetious.

sasta le

Beause in many cases they have no common sense and will look down on people without a degree
Its like the middle class masters at the moment that are getting so popular

Tom Dunne

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Where? Seriously, I have been involved in a number of approval boards for degree programmes and I would be very, very surprised if that was approved.



Genuine query, I'm not trying to be facetious.

Google's your friend, but isn't your background IT (if memory serves).

Not knocking the ground up, work hard to get on in your career path, but what jobs do people get (apart from apprenticeship roles - which also include further education) without degrees?

IAMAMORON

Deleted User wrote: »

Not knocking the ground up, work hard to get on in your career path, but what jobs do people get (apart from apprenticeship roles - which also include further education) without degrees?

You could start in a supermarket at 15 years of age and technically be running it in ten years if you played your cards right and worked hard. It might be difficult going through your late teens and early twenties garnering such responsibility, but it is certainly not impossible.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Google's your friend, but isn't your background IT (if memory serves).

Google Garage is no ubstitute for a FETAC / QQI Level 2 course either

IAMAMORON

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You could start in a supermarket at 15 years of age and technically be running it in ten years if you played your cards right and worked hard. It might be difficult going through your late teens and early twenties garnering such responsibility, but it is certainly not impossible.

Of course it's possible, but someone coming in on a graduate program is, on probability, going to get there quicker and have better chances of moving to a different company to advance their career.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Google Garage is no ubstitute for a FETAC / QQI Level 2 course either

corks finest

I'm not anyone with the determination to study for years and obtain one I salute them,I didn't,but my smallie will

Tom Dunne

Deleted User wrote: »

Google's your friend, but isn't your background IT (if memory serves).

When somebody makes an assertion, it shouldn't be up to me to Google it to verify what they are saying.



Having said that, I did Google it and I found references to it in a non-Western/non-Anglosphere institution. I leave it to your discretion to determine the quality assurance standards that may have been involved in the validation of such a programme.



There is nothing stopping me from setting up a college and creating a degree in earlobe massaging for stray donkeys (Hons). Getting it past a competent validation panel would be another thing.

I have worked alongside people with degrees, and people with no real formal education at all. At the end of the day, whether it's making a sandwich, or landing a space shuttle on Mars, I really believe that anyone can be trained to do anything. All that matters is their level of interest.

skooterblue2

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You could start in a supermarket at 15 years of age and technically be running it in ten years if you played your cards right and worked hard. It might be difficult going through your late teens and early twenties garnering such responsibility, but it is certainly not impossible.

True and (I have this discussion with my Missus who work in retail all the time), there eventually comes a time when you hit the glass ceiling. You will certainly not get "fat" working in a supermarket. My missus is there 20 years and she hit the glass ceiling 15 years ago when she hit assistant manager. She doesnt get a bonus or invited to board meetings. She runs around the network of shops like a bluearsed fly doing they bidding for slabs of 7UP and the odd couple of bottles of wine. I cannot tell her differently. I got her "What colour is your Parachute?" and "Rich Dad, Poor Dad".

Give me two bottles of wine at christmas and you will have an appointment with the proctologist in the new year.

landofthetree

endacl wrote: »

A degree is what the leaving Cert used to be.

Ive never come across anybody who just had the LC as a qualification that designed a bridge or performed a triple by-pass on a patient.

Addmagnet

Tom Dunne wrote: »

.....

There is nothing stopping me from setting up a college and creating a degree in earlobe massaging for stray donkeys (Hons).....

I am interested in your Degree course and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

skooterblue2

landofthetree wrote: »

Ive never come across anybody who just had the LC as a qualification that designed a bridge or performed a triple by-pass on a patient.

I think they mean the arts and business degrees of today, compared with the LC from 40 years back which were highly thought of in that time and place. Degrees in certain areas are now common place and nothing special.

You want a degree, go do something that commerce values. After that degrees are just indulgent fantasties. Philosophy and English lit degrees are two a penny, and the graduates I have met off those course are so entitled.

Wanderer19

Deleted User wrote: »

Not knocking the ground up, work hard to get on in your career path, but what jobs do people get (apart from apprenticeship roles - which also include further education) without degrees?

Accounts, administration, medical secretary, PA, HR, social care, SNA - plenty of jobs don't require a degree, it all depends what level people want to work up to.

One of my ex employers got burnt a couple of times because they employed people with a degree, rather than a lower qualification and relevant experience - it all depends on the people.

skooterblue2

Wanderer19 wrote: »

Accounts, administration, medical secretary, PA, HR, social care, SNA - plenty of jobs don't require a degree, it all depends what level people want to work up to.

One of my ex employers got burnt a couple of times because they employed people with a degree, rather than a lower qualification and relevant experience - it all depends on the people.

HSE have new policies for hiring and they want to see a a min of a degree. I agree a lot depends on the person fitting in and being part of the team and being adjusted to the post.

Bass Reeves

landofthetree wrote: »

Ive never come across anybody who just had the LC as a qualification that designed a bridge or performed a triple by-pass on a patient.

No but I have came across a lot of people with that level or less that have run big companies. They started and ran building and development companies, machinery businesses, car dealerships. Certain professions were always taught at degree level such as medicine, architecture, engineering etc. But over the last 10-15years every qualifications has to be done through college courses.

There is a good few that could go back through the apprentice system. Colleges have started to pump out graduates with generic course titles.

Wanderer19

skooterblue2 wrote: »

HSE have new policies for hiring and they want to see a a min of a degree. I agree a lot depends on the person fitting in and being part of the team and being adjusted to the post.

The HSE is only one employer, and it depends on the job you apply for - the HSE aren't the only employers in Ireland

Wanderer19

skooterblue2 wrote: »

HSE have new policies for hiring and they want to see a a min of a degree. I agree a lot depends on the person fitting in and being part of the team and being adjusted to the post.

The HSE aren't the only employer in Ireland - and it depends on the role

skooterblue2

Wanderer19 wrote: »

The HSE is only one employer, and it depends on the job you apply for - the HSE aren't the only employers in Ireland

I never said it was the "only" employer, I just stated they require a minimum degree going forward.

jaxxx

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Go on then, give us an example.

Theology.

jaxxx

skooterblue2 wrote: »

HSE have new policies for hiring and they want to see a a min of a degree. I agree a lot depends on the person fitting in and being part of the team and being adjusted to the post.

As someone who works in the HSE, recently employed, I can attest that this is a load of bs.

skooterblue2

jaxxx wrote: »

As someone who works in the HSE, recently employed, I can attest that this is a load of bs.

Its what my wife told me. Her former employee just got hired as a secretary and claimed she was the last one in before they raised the bar.

skooterblue2

jaxxx wrote: »

Theology.

Dont think so, Big car, tax free, free accomodation and respected pillar in the community, plus you cant ignore company assets and places on boards of management.

I would avail of the education package only I am married.

Donald Trump

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Go on then, give us an example.

Anything from UCD?????