Cocaine

Wanderer78

pure.conya wrote:

some interesting stats out of Portugal

Some interesting stats there, I'd love to see the negative ones though

scamalert

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Some interesting stats there, I'd love to see the negative ones though

frankly id say few, most pushing drugs would be scammers or roma gipsies in tourist areas, even weed is abundant your more likely to score in middle of Dublin then say Albufeira or other tourist spots. As most drugs that make it to Portugal usually go towards France and rest of EU. Just someone who visits place at least twice a year seems they have it rather under control, and aside what many think that weed is legal its quite the opposite.


Spain has made few moves towards legalizing few weed cafes, but hard drug use would be quite small given countries size, then again could be wrong. as never taken coke so dont get the fuss about it. as given how its extracted its nasty process, and by the time it makes to EU its prob 50% pure after every party cuts it dozen times.

Wanderer78

scamalert wrote:

frankly id say few, most pushing drugs would be scammers or roma gipsies in tourist areas, even weed is abundant your more likely to score in middle of Dublin then say Albufeira or other tourist spots. As most drugs that make it to Portugal usually go towards France and rest of EU. Just someone who visits place at least twice a year seems they have it rather under control, and aside what many think that weed is legal its quite the opposite.

I'd say it's too easy to say theres been few increases in negative outcomes after legalisation, there's nothing simply about the use of drugs, I'd class that as utopic thinking, and potentially dangerous

squawker

scamalert wrote: »

given how its extracted its nasty process, and by the time it makes to EU its prob 50% pure after every party cuts it dozen times.

even if it is Cocaine, more likely to get fentanyl these days

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Have a comparison between Portugal and Ireland.

It's older data from 2017 I think.

Interesting that Portugal, even with decriminalisation, had a slightly higher amount of drug drug law offences than Ireland. Drugs are still illegal in that country, just there is a more relaxed criminal code and tolerance of personal use.

The other way you could look at it, Portugal has over twice our population so its bound to have higher rates of drug law offences even with decriminalisation.

It's probably more of a stark contrast that Ireland is close to the numbers of a country twice its size.

The thing is, in Ireland, while users do get caught and charged for drug possession, the Gardai are not targeting users - they don't raid houses looking for personal supply. They are going after dealers and people higher up the supply chain and gangs.

What I would like to see in our drug offences statistics is the number of offences under the Misuse of Drugs Act that were Section 15 - possession of a controlled drug for the purpose of unlawful sale or supply - which would suggest someone is dealing.

Even if Ireland were to decriminalised all Class A drugs tomorrow you will still get people being arrested for this offence if detected.

Arrival

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd say it's too easy to say theres been few increases in negative outcomes after legalisation, there's nothing simply about the use of drugs, I'd class that as utopic thinking, and potentially dangerous

They were decriminalised, not legalised

scamalert

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Have a comparison between Portugal and Ireland.

It's older data from 2017 I think.

Interesting that Portugal, even with decriminalisation, had a slightly higher amount of drug drug law offences than Ireland. Drugs are still illegal in that country, just there is a more relaxed criminal code and tolerance of personal use.

The other way you could look at it, Portugal has over twice our population so its bound to have higher rates of drug law offences even with decriminalisation.

It's probably more of a stark contrast that Ireland is close to the numbers of a country twice its size.

The thing is, in Ireland, while users do get caught and charged for drug possession, the Gardai are not targeting users - they don't raid houses looking for personal supply. They are going after dealers and people higher up the supply chain and gangs.

What I would like to see in our drug offences statistics is the number of offences under the Misuse of Drugs Act that were Section 15 - possession of a controlled drug for the purpose of unlawful sale or supply - which would suggest someone is dealing.

Even if Ireland were to decriminalised all Class A drugs tomorrow you will still get people being arrested for this offence if detected.

you are sort of correct but even if user is caught and drugs found like driving under influence penalty isnt smth like a slap or warning, as using resources on users would be pointless. the criminal gangs that cause terror and killings is different matter.


dont think we will ever see any class A drugs legalized, even thou some dont even belong in that category like magic mushrooms - completely different users and experience, to say amphetamine or coke users. even weed is safer in comparison to alcohol, but those making and pushing laws like to make their job easy so better to put everything under single blanket ban and pretend it eliminates issues, but as we know from history it just creates larger criminal underground where neither users nor those involved are safe and just promotes larger gangs to get involved which leads to $hit we hear on the news each day. so its not simple as making something legal as it wont eliminate criminal aspect.

Scotland introduced quite few years back service to test drugs, Netherlands followed where say acid lsd users can get their drugs tested in confidence, its a small operations and most wouldn't be even funded by government but for one at least it takes steps in right direction, as scare tactics can go only so far education on the other hand not fear mongering is something that many countries dont wanna put resources in.

tuxy

squawker wrote: »

even if it is Cocaine, more likely to get fentanyl these days

You're thinking of heroin.

tdf7187

tuxy wrote: »

You're thinking of heroin.

Yeah coke's an upper, heroin/booze/fentalyn are downers.

tuxy

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yeah coke's an upper, heroin/booze/fentanyl are downers.

Exactly, sometimes very low quality heroin is mixed with fentalyn to make it seem stronger.

Coke that is heavily cut could have amphetamine in it to make it seem higher quality

Has Coke ever been cut with fentanyl?
I'm sure it has but if it was a common thing we would have coke users dropping dead all the time.

Dyr

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Some interesting stats there, I'd love to see the negative ones though

Problem with Portugal is that their policy is being overhyped by people who want it to suceed regardless of the reality

https://transformdrugs.org/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight/

Arrival

tuxy wrote: »

Exactly, sometimes very low quality heroin is mixed with fentalyn to make it seem stronger.

Coke that is heavily cut could have amphetamine in it to make it seem higher quality

Has Coke ever been cut with fentanyl?
I'm sure it has but if it was a common thing we would have coke users dropping dead all the time.

In the US it has apparently, I remember hearing that a couple of famous people who died from coke were actually given coke cut with fentanyl. Makes absolutely no sense why any dealers would cut their stuff with something that has a high chance of killing their customers, fairly messed up really

Big Gerry

tuxy wrote: »

Exactly, sometimes very low quality heroin is mixed with fentalyn to make it seem stronger.

Coke that is heavily cut could have amphetamine in it to make it seem higher quality

Has Coke ever been cut with fentanyl?
I'm sure it has but if it was a common thing we would have coke users dropping dead all the time.

We already have coke users dropping dead all the time.


Every week someone in Ireland will die from Cocaine.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/one-person-dies-of-cocaine-overdose-every-week-figures-show-1.4112597

tuxy

Big Gerry wrote: »

We already have coke users dropping dead all the time.


Every week someone in Ireland will die from Cocaine.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/one-person-dies-of-cocaine-overdose-every-week-figures-show-1.4112597

These are mixed drug deaths that almost always includes alcohol.
It would seem to be a polydrug issue.

“A cocktail of drugs was present in three in five poisoning deaths,” said research officer Ena Lynn. “Mixing drugs is known to cause more complications and increases the risk of overdose.” Drug “cocktails” were present in three of five fatal cases.

No mention of fentanyl either.

Big Gerry

tuxy wrote: »

These are mixed drug deaths that almost always includes alcohol.
It would seem to be a polydrug issue.



No mention of fentanyl either.

90% of coke users use it with alcohol.

tuxy

Big Gerry wrote: »

90% of coke users use it with alcohol.

No sure about the % but probably close enough. Combining drugs is dangerous but does not mean one is more dangerous than the other.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Big Gerry wrote: »

90% of coke users use it with alcohol.

So, we should ban alcohol...?

tuxy

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So, we should ban alcohol...?

No that would result in a situation with alcohol that we have with other drugs.
It would increase suffering and fatalities.

squawker

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yeah coke's an upper, heroin/booze/fentalyn are downers.

Fent is an opioid

and is mixed with both heroin and cocaine


"Fentanyl, also spelled fentanil, is an opioid used as a pain medication and together with other medications for anesthesia. Fentanyl is also used as a recreational drug, often mixed with heroin or cocaine."

Doctor Nick

squawker wrote: »

even if it is Cocaine, more likely to get fentanyl these days

Fentanyl, as a mixing agent, apparently hasn't made it to the EU yet. It's a huge problem in North America. A lot of Fentanyl OD's in Downtown Eastside Vancouver, for example. I would think it is only a matter of time before the stuff on our streets is cut with it.

A lot of the time it isn't even real Fentanyl but "Fentalogues", i.e. Headshop fentanyl.

Yellow_Fern

tuxy wrote: »

Prohibition does not work, never has never will.

Everyone says prohibition doesnt work but it works in Japan.

mr_fegelien

Am I the only one who'd rather have an E tablet than take alcohol? When I first drank it, I felt euphoria but ever since then, it's mostly a ****ty buzz with a hangover, even when I don't overdo it.

I wish things like hydrocodone and morphine were legal here OTC. More euphoria but better yet, less violent and trouble causing homeless.

mr_fegelien

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Everyone says prohibition doesnt work but it works in Japan.

They have a different culture ontop of prohibition. Alcohol has been part of Western civilisation for 1000s of years.

Yellow_Fern

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Am I the only one who'd rather have an E tablet than take alcohol? When I first drank it, I felt euphoria but ever since then, it's mostly a ****ty buzz with a hangover, even when I don't overdo it.

I wish things like hydrocodone and morphine were legal here OTC. More euphoria but better yet, less violent and trouble causing homeless.

Its controlled but no one goes to prison for taking it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

tuxy wrote: »

No that would result in a situation with alcohol that we have with other drugs.
It would increase suffering and fatalities.

So banning drugs increases suffering and fatalities?

sbsquarepants

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Everyone says prohibition doesnt work but it works in Japan.

I'd be fairly sure there's drugs to be had in Japan! Probably just different drugs to the ones readily available here.

You've heard of the Yakuza i take it?

Yellow_Fern

mr_fegelien wrote: »

They have a different culture ontop of prohibition. Alcohol has been part of Western civilisation for 1000s of years.

Prohibition of cocaine. Prohibition of hard drugs works in Japan

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'd be fairly sure there's drugs to be had in Japan! Probably just different drugs to the ones readily available here.

You've heard of the Yakuza i take it?

There are drugs in Japan but the they are rare. The average person wouldnt have tried hash let alone cocaine. It is to the credit of their culture and weaknesses of western society today.

sbsquarepants

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Prohibition of cocaine. Prohibition of hard drugs works in Japan

There are drugs in Japan but the they are rare. The average person wouldnt have tried hash let alone cocaine. It is to the credit of their culture and weaknesses of western society today.

They're very xenophobic, they have inter-generational mortgages and companies there routinely expect workers to put in 80 - 90 hour weeks and forego holidays etc. Plus you can buy used knickers in vending machines ffs!

There's a fair bit of crystal meth in Japan, but then again they probably need it to work all those hours, in between the knicker sniffing and commuting 500kms a day that is:D

I'll take the weak western life every time, thanks all the same, drugs and all!

Yellow_Fern

sbsquarepants wrote: »

They're very xenophobic, they have inter-generational mortgages and companies there routinely expect workers to put in 80 - 90 hour weeks and forego holidays etc. Plus you can buy used knickers in vending machines ffs!

There's a fair bit of crystal meth in Japan, but then again they probably need it to work all those hours, in between the knicker sniffing and commuting 500kms a day that is:D

I'll take the weak western life every time, thanks all the same, drugs and all!

I am pretty sure if we adopted their approach to cocaine we are not obligated to take up intergenerational mortgages and sex perversions. lol

Wanderer78

mr_fegelien wrote:

Am I the only one who'd rather have an E tablet than take alcohol? When I first drank it, I felt euphoria but ever since then, it's mostly a ****ty buzz with a hangover, even when I don't overdo it.

Can you not enjoy life without any of them? Life is good fun without anything