Bring back the death penalty

With the recent spate of horrific murders, I think it's high time we brought back the death penalty. For premeditated murders like those in the news where the conviction is beyond reasonable doubt I see no reason not to.

There is no deterrent now. Jail is like high quality social housing with private dental and healthcare thrown in.

People who commit crimes like the dismembement of that 17 year old should get the death penalty.

What say ye?

THE DEATH PENALTY DOES NOT ACT AS A DETERRENCE.


Most murders are;

A) Carried out in a moment of rage.

or

Committed by someone that believes they won't be caught.

CrankyHaus

Start with proper sentencing, which we don't have. Only if that doesn't work would there be any case for the death penalty. In the US it just creates an endless merry go round of appeals.

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

What say ye?

I say 'Not this again.'

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

THE DEATH PENALTY DOES NOT ACT AS A DETERRENCE.


Most murders are;

A) Carried out in a moment of rage.

or

Committed by someone that believes they won't be caught.

Neither of these are the case in the type of murders I'm referring to. Also would save the state a ton of money.

caff

Doesn't deter murders in us states with it.
Isn't deterring murders in Philippines where they have gone all in on it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Neither of these are the case in the type of murders I'm referring to. Also would save the state a ton of money.

Another misconception.


Death sentences actually cost more than imprisonment.

Yurt2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Also would save the state a ton of money.

Highly unlikely.

Also the gangland types clearly see the death penalty as a deterrent as they use it liberally themselves on anyone who crosses them.

ancapailldorcha

It baffles me that some people think that letting the state execute people in their custody is a good thing. By all means, feel free to post a scientific study showing that the death penalty offers good value for money and serves as an effective deterrent but the existence of such a study seems to be highly unlikely.

ohnonotgmail

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It baffles me that some people think that letting the state execute people in their custody is a good thing. By all means, feel free to post a scientific study showing that the death penalty offers good value for money and serves as an effective deterrent but the existence of such a study seems to be highly unlikely.

Said study would also have to prove that it would be impossible for an innocent person to be put to death.

Boggles

#edgelord

jaxxx

Oh ffs. Death is not a punishment, it is an inevitability. As such, it is not in any way, shape or form, achieving justice. What we need as mentioned above is proper sentencing. Getting rid of this suspended sentencing nonsense as a start! Getting rid of concurrent sentencing as well, it should be consecutive! Finally then of course, is handing out justifiable lengths of incarceration. Rape: 20 years minimum (as well as involuntary castration). Murder: depends -> did the killer set out to kill his/her target; was it in self defence; etc. Pure murder should be life. Etc, etc, etc.

elperello

Complete non-starter unless we leave the EU.
That's not going to happen so forget about it.

https://ec.europa.eu/europeaid/sectors/human-rights-and-governance/democracy-and-human-rights/fight-against-death-penalty_en

TuringBot47

Deleted User wrote: »

THE DEATH PENALTY DOES NOT ACT AS A DETERRENCE.

Maybe, but it certainly stops reoffending.

ancapailldorcha

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Said study would also have to prove that it would be impossible for an innocent person to be put to death.

An excellent point. I'm not sure entrusting the government who commemerated the RIC and DMP before an election with a choice where a mistake would result in the death of an innocent person is a good idea.

elperello wrote: »

Complete non-starter unless we leave the EU.
That's not going to happen so forget about it.

https://ec.europa.eu/europeaid/sectors/human-rights-and-governance/democracy-and-human-rights/fight-against-death-penalty_en

If you're going to do one edgy act of stupidity then you might as well do another while you're at it.

banie01

@OP, bringing back the Death Penalty means we would need to leave the EU as the recognition and implementation of the ECHR is fundamental to EU citizens rights and diametrically opposed to the Death Penalty.

Do you think Irexit will be of benefit?

The country with the highest per capita rate of imprisonment in the world, also implements the Death Penalty.
Do you think it works as a deterrent?

whisky_galore

It ain't going to happen as EU members it's what Ireland has signed up to, no EU member state has capital punishment anymore, so we'll put this hang em high/fry the bastards fantasy to bed shall we?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

osarusan wrote: »

I say 'Not this again.'

You beat me to it. That phrase sets my teeth on edge.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It baffles me that some people think that letting the state execute people in their custody is a good thing. By all means, feel free to post a scientific study showing that the death penalty offers good value for money and serves as an effective deterrent but the existence of such a study seems to be highly unlikely.

Very difficult to get any unbiased study on this as locking people up is big business in the US.

I can't see how keeping someone locked up for 20+ years can be cheaper than a piece of rope and a gallows.

In 2018, the average cost of an “available, staffed prison space” was €73,802.

So for 20 years this would amount to €1,476,040.

https://www.iprt.ie/prison-facts-2/

Some 349 prisoners were serving life for homicide; almost all of them convicted murderers.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jail-population-on-rise-with-350-prisoners-serving-life-sentences-1.3935112

So lets say it costs €500k to carry out the death penalty on someone. Seems a crazy huge amount but let's be generous.

That's a saving of €976,040 per prisoner over 20 years or € 340,637,960

or € 17,031,898 per year.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

Very difficult to get any unbiased study on this as locking people up is big business in the US.

I can't see how keeping someone locked up for 20+ years can be cheaper than a piece of rope and a gallows.

In 2018, the average cost of an “available, staffed prison space” was €73,802.

So for 20 years this would amount to €1,476,040.

https://www.iprt.ie/prison-facts-2/

Some 349 prisoners were serving life for homicide; almost all of them convicted murderers.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jail-population-on-rise-with-350-prisoners-serving-life-sentences-1.3935112

So lets say it costs €500k to carry out the death penalty on someone. Seems a crazy huge amount but let's be generous.

That's a saving of €976,040 per prisoner over 20 years or € 340,637,960

or € 17,031,898 per year.

I never said that imprisoning people was cheap. For obvious reasons, it is not.

However, according to this article it is cheaper to imprison someone for life in the US than to execute them.

Here's another:

Death penalty costs California more than $300m per execution

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Neither of these are the case in the type of murders I'm referring to. Also would save the state a ton of money.

Would it ? 15 to 20 years on death row ... Ain't cheap
All the extra appeals ,clemency pleas ,blah blah blah ..
Is there a notable difference in the states between states with the death sentence and ones that don't ...

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

It ain't going to happen as EU members it's what Ireland has signed up to, no EU member state has capital punishment anymore, so we'll put this hang em high/fry the bastards fantasy to bed shall we?

That's not relevant to the rights and wrongs of the death penalty.

Also that could change in the future - by that I mean the attitude to the death penalty within the EU, Ireland's membership of the EU, and even the very existence of the EU.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I never said that imprisoning people was cheap. For obvious reasons, it is not.

However, according to this article it is cheaper to imprison someone for life in the US than to execute them.

The US system is a joke it takes so long.

We would need some streamlined system where they don't stay on death row indefinitely. Once you get the sentence that's the only one to be carried out unless some compelling evidence comes to light. A maximum limit of say 3 years to find it.

Someone will get executed and then new evidence will prove their innocence.
If this happens even once, then the system is a failure in my view.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

The US system is a joke it takes so long.

We would need some streamlined system where they don't stay on death row indefinitely. Once you get the sentence that's the only one to be carried out unless some compelling evidence comes to light. A maximum limit of say 3 years to find it.

So innocent people who are put to death are just acceptable collateral damage?

whisky_galore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's not relevant to the rights and wrongs of the death penalty.

Also that could change in the future - by that I mean the attitude to the death penalty within the EU, Ireland's membership of the EU, and even the very existence of the EU.

And that's just your imagination hoping such things may come to pass.

Ok, let's join the charming company of lovely countries that still have it so.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

The US system is a joke it takes so long.

We would need some streamlined system where they don't stay on death row indefinitely. Once you get the sentence that's the only one to be carried out unless some compelling evidence comes to light. A maximum limit of say 3 years to find it.

You have yet to provide evidence that the death penalty is cost effective and serves as a deterrent.

I'm not seeing any countries here that Ireland should be aspiring to imitate:

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

The US system is a joke it takes so long.

We would need some streamlined system where they don't stay on death row indefinitely. Once you get the sentence that's the only one to be carried out unless some compelling evidence comes to light. A maximum limit of say 3 years to find it.

And what about the right to appeal? That's why these cases drag on for so long.

Samuel T. Cogley

As if the people this is aimed at aren't already under a real threat of death. It doesn't seem to have been a deterrent so far.

KWAG2019

Utterly absurd proposal. Only a money spinner for legal types, media and campaigners. Think of the Birmingham 6 and you see the utter foolishness of it.

marieholmfan

Deleted User wrote: »

With the recent spate of horrific murders, I think it's high time we brought back the death penalty. For premeditated murders like those in the news where the conviction is beyond reasonable doubt I see no reason not to.

There is no deterrent now. Jail is like high quality social housing with private dental and healthcare thrown in.

People who commit crimes like the dismembement of that 17 year old should get the death penalty.

What say ye?

Very sensible. But we shouldn't allow years of appeals and no one should be executed for killing a pensioner.

marieholmfan

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Said study would also have to prove that it would be impossible for an innocent person to be put to death.

Bad stuff happens. How is death by hanging different from death from ovarian cancer? It would just be bad luck.

marieholmfan

whisky_galore wrote: »

It ain't going to happen as EU members it's what Ireland has signed up to, no EU member state has capital punishment anymore, so we'll put this hang em high/fry the bastards fantasy to bed shall we?

We'd just have to pay a fine or something.

super_furry

As long as you'd be happy with the likes of the Birmingham Six and and Guildford Four being executed, go for it.

marieholmfan

super_furry wrote: »

As long as you'd be happy with the likes of the Birmingham Six and and Guildford Four being executed, go for it.

Obviously I wouldn't be in favour of people being framed.

osarusan

marieholmfan wrote: »

Bad stuff happens. How is death by hanging different from death from ovarian cancer? It would just be bad luck.

Jesus christ, what a moronic attempted comparison.

marieholmfan

osarusan wrote: »

Jesus christ, what a moronic attempted comparison.

Well you're letting the best be the enemy of the good.

If you can't be sure that you won't hang any one who is innocent then you can't hang anyone who is guilty.

I may be oversimplifying your point of view but I don't think so.

super_furry

marieholmfan wrote: »

Obviously I wouldn't be in favour of people being framed.

Ah right. Well then, best not to take the chance so, death penalties off the menu.

Sorry.

notobtuse

We have the death penalty in the state (USA) where I live, although our governor has defied the will of the people and has currently issued a moratorium on the death penalty. But it has been very hard in the state to actually receive the death penalty, and harder yet to execute. Only 3 men have been executed since 1995 and there are less than 150 currently on death row. Recently, the death penalty has fallen out of favor with our state’s prosecutors as scores of them have been thrown out at appeals.

Good or bad? Good, IMO as a sentence of life in prison is disproportionate to the most heinous of capital crimes committed.

Muahahaha

I can never understand why we dont just place ankle tags on anyone who is released from prison, at lease for two or three years after release. Surely that would go a long way to preventing them from committing more crime. Like you're not going to go rob a bank or post office if you know the Gardai have your exact location 24/7.

Guy:Incognito

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It baffles me that some people think that letting the state execute people in their custody is a good thing. By all means, feel free to post a scientific study showing that the death penalty offers good value for money and serves as an effective deterrent but the existence of such a study seems to be highly unlikely.

It doesnt act as a deterrent but it 100% stops reoffending.

flazio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

With the recent spate of horrific murders, I think it's high time we brought back the death penalty. For premeditated murders like those in the news where the conviction is beyond reasonable doubt I see no reason not to.

There is no deterrent now. Jail is like high quality social housing with private dental and healthcare thrown in.

People who commit crimes like the dismembement of that 17 year old should get the death penalty.

What say ye?

I say, would you be willing to be the executioner? Because if not, you have no right to ask the state to kill on your behalf.

JohnnyFlash

I always get the feeling that people who advocate for the death penalty are short-arsed incels who spend far too much time watching far-right political ‘commentators’ from the States.

MayoAreMagic

Im not sure if the death penalty is the answer here. However, there is an issue arising around career criminals with ridiculous amounts of convictions who basically make their living off terror and violence and have no plans on changing tack. There is assumption made with the current system that people want to be normal members of society and that is where it is flawed.
Unflinchingly harsher conditions is something that should be seriously considered for people in this scenario. If people repeatedly refuse to partake in society, they should be kept out of it. Any monies or things of value they have should be taken to pay for keeping them.

joe40

I don't see how the death penalty would act as a deterrent for our gangland criminals when death seems to be an occupational hazard they have all the time.
All the criminals killed recently knew their lives were at risk it did not make them change their ways. Why would the threat of a death penalty by the state be any different.

splinter65

Whoever gave the orders for the 17 year old to be abducted tortured murdered and dismembered cannot be rehabilitated. He or she is without any skills to live amongst other humans. It’s a simple as that.
The actual killers are equally beyond redemption.
They simply must be removed from society but not by killing them.
No parole no day release just taken away and treated humanely just none of the things that people reward themselves with for living decent lives, like mobile phones, the internet or TV.
I know that they are the way they are as a result of background etc but lots of people have a horrific upbringing but don’t end up ordering the decapitated head of their enemy to be thrown on a lawn in a housing estate.
So just take them away but don’t kill them.

elperello

The longer these threads about the death penalty go on the better for the experts on how to deal with criminals.
Almost anyone sounds reasonable.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

With the recent spate of horrific murders, I think it's high time we brought back the death penalty. For premeditated murders like those in the news where the conviction is beyond reasonable doubt I see no reason not to.

There is no deterrent now. Jail is like high quality social housing with private dental and healthcare thrown in.

People who commit crimes like the dismembement of that 17 year old should get the death penalty.

What say ye?

That would just create more revenge attacks imo.

Our guy got the death penalty for murdering your guy ..so now we are going to murder another one of your guys.

jaxxx

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That would just create more revenge attacks imo.

Our guy got the death penalty for murdering your guy ..so now we are going to murder another one of your guys.

An eye for an eye, will inevitably turn the whole world blind.

Pauliedragon

A large chunk of drugs are trafficked from countries with the death penalty for such offences. The deterent argument doesn't seem to stack up in that department.