Brown thomas, issue with refund

j4vier

Hi

I placed an online order with BT with the click and collect option in one of their stores.

I needed to return two items so I asked a relative to do this for me (10 days have passed since the order was available for collection and 3 days have passed since it was collected). The items were with tags and unused.

She was told and given only store credit as they told her this was the case for sale items.

As far as I know, the fact that it is a sale item or not makes no difference under distance selling regulations, so I should be entitled to a refund within 14 days regardless of the fact that I purchased sale items?

Am I right or wrong?

BeardySi

As far as I'm aware if the sale happens online all the usual distance selling rules apply. If its only a reservation and payment is made in store then they don't.

I'm open to correction though as I'm more familiar with the UK rules....

Did you pay when you ordered online? Or did you reserve online and pay when you picked up?

j4vier

I paid online by card for both orders

colm_mcm

Would you not be returning them via the website?

j4vier

colm_mcm wrote: »

Would you not be returning them via the website?

I could have also sent them back via free post yes. However since I collected them in store, I sent my relative back there with the goods to see if they were going to take them back for a refund.

The staff convinced my relative that a gift card was the only option available for sale items and didn’t mention to her the other option to post them back so she felt it that either that or nothing.

colm_mcm

I would guess that there is a process for returning goods online which wasn’t followed. It probably weakens your case.

j4vier

colm_mcm wrote: »

I would guess that there is a process for returning goods online which wasn’t followed. It probably weakens your case.

I am not arguing about the fact that they don’t give refunds in store for goods bought online. That’s fair enough.

My argument is focused on the fact that my relative was only informed about 1 option available which was the return in store for a gift card.

My relative could have walked away with the goods and shipped them using the free post method which was possible.

j4vier

j4vier wrote: »

My relative could have walked away with the goods and shipped them using the free post method which was possible.

Could you not have done that?

j4vier

Dav010 wrote: »

Could you not have done that?

Of course I could have but with posting there is always a risk of things going missing so a direct return would have been preferred

j4vier

j4vier wrote: »

Of course I could have but with posting there is always a risk of things going missing so a direct return would have been preferred

If you want the protection of distance sales regulations, you probably have to abide by the terms of sale in relation to returns. Online purchases usually cannot be returned to shops, they must be returned with the labelling provided, this contains info about the item and purchaser which is scanned when the item is received by the seller. You want the 14 day return entitlement you get with distance selling, yet you asked someone else to bring it back to a shop.

j4vier

Dav010 wrote: »

If you want the protection of distance sales regulations, you probably have to abide by the terms of sale in relation to returns. Online purchases usually cannot be returned to shops, they must be returned with the labelling provided, this contains info about the item and purchaser which is scanned when the item is received by the seller. You want the 14 day return entitlement you get with distance selling, yet you asked someone else to bring it back to a shop.

Yes and i would have followed the rules if they provided my relative with the 2 options. Instead they provided only 1 option to her.

Being made ware of the second option, she would have brought back the goods and we would have posted them no problem.

The shop was under no obligation to accept it but they lacked transparency

meeeeh

Brown Thomas accept returns to any of their stores. So unless there is some other reason they are not refunding you (damaged goods or purchased in store) they should refund you full amount.

https://www.brownthomas.com/customer-service/returns-policy.html

Most of sellers are quite happy to accept returns in store because it cuts their delivery costs.

j4vier

j4vier wrote: »

Yes and i would have followed the rules if they provided my relative with the 2 options. Instead they provided only 1 option to her.

Being made ware of the second option, she would have brought back the goods and we would have posted them no problem.

The shop was under no obligation to accept it but they lacked transparency

But you had the rules, they are in the terms and conditions you agreed to online when buying the item. Why are you blaming the shop?

Online returns are refunded back onto the account used to purchase them, this protects against fraud. Did your relative have your credit card?

meeeeh

Dav010 wrote: »

But you had the rules, they are in the terms and conditions you agreed to online when buying the item. Why are you blaming the shop?

Online returns are refunded back onto the account used to purchase them, this protects against fraud. Did your relative have your credit card?

Any Brown Thomas item bought online can be returned to shop. Unless there was some other reason op didn't mention the full refund should be processed.

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

Any Brown Thomas item bought online can be returned to shop. Unless there was some other reason op didn't mention the full refund should be processed.

Probably this:

Refunds will only be paid back to the original payment method. It can take up to 10 working days from date of posting depending on your bank.


Op probably paid by credit card.

meeeeh

Dav010 wrote: »

Probably this:

Refunds will only be paid back to the original payment method. It can take up to 10 working days from date of posting depending on your bank.


Op probably paid by credit card.

Yes but why would then they offer only store credit? If it was an online purchase then you are entitled to your money back not to store credit.

OP you probably have emails with order numbers and return documents. I would contact their customer care and query the store credit and request a refund.

dartboardio

Why should they offer your relative the two options when you knew you had the option to send back free post. You chose to return it via the shop, and the shop only issues the store credit, could have returned it online and probably gotten a refund

Teach30

As a consumer it is your responsibility to make yourself aware of consumer laws. By returning the goods in store you do not have the same return conditions as online. The onus is really on you to make sure you read the T&Cs.

Also if you simply change your mind and the goods were not faulty it is up to the store to offer you a gesture of goodwill.

The CAI have an excellent website and it is worth making yourself aware of consumer rights and responsibilities.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Teach30 wrote: »

As a consumer it is your responsibility to make yourself aware of consumer laws. By returning the goods in store you do not have the same return conditions as online. The onus is really on you to make sure you read the T&Cs.

Also if you simply change your mind and the goods were not faulty it is up to the store to offer you a gesture of goodwill.

The CAI have an excellent website and it is worth making yourself aware of consumer rights and responsibilities.

You should make yourself aware of the Distance Selling Regulations before getting off your high horse... This website is full of gob****es who know a little about everything.

Teach30

Jenny Tall Sty wrote: »

You should make yourself aware of the Distance Selling Regulations before getting off your high horse... This website is full of gob****es who know a little about everything.

Never heard of it before. I’ve looked it up. What aspect of it should I make myself aware of?

No need for the name calling either. I was only trying to help.

meeeeh

dartboardio wrote: »

Why should they offer your relative the two options when you knew you had the option to send back free post. You chose to return it via the shop, and the shop only issues the store credit, could have returned it online and probably gotten a refund

If you return to the store it doesn't mean you are not entitled to full refund. That's just pure nonsense. As per their website they allow online returns to their shops.

Esse85

BT influenced your family member to take the option they wanted.

I'd a similar incident today where I'd ordered online, went into the store to collect, I then tried on what I ordered in the changing room and it was too big, so I brought it straight up to the counter, had the card I paid for it with on me and asked for a refund, no problem at all.

Esse85

Esse85 wrote: »

BT influenced your family member to take the option they wanted.

I'd a similar incident today where I'd ordered online, went into the store to collect, I then tried on what I ordered in the changing room and it was too big, so I brought it straight up to the counter, had the card I paid for it with on me and asked for a refund, no problem at all.

Did the relative have the ops card which was used to pay though?

j4vier

I think the point is being missed here.

Nobody said that I was expecting a refund in the store. I sent someone on my behalf to the store to “ask” for a refund.

They could either oblige as a gesture of goodwill or they could say no. Based on the T&Cs, they are in their right to say no.

But they did say that I Am not entitled to a refund, I am only entitled to a gift card or an exchange. This is not true, I am also entitled to ship them back and get a refund to my original payment method.

Unfortunately the person who was doing this favour for me believed them and decided to accept the only proposed option.

They did not have my card, but they can find the method of payment used from my order number and process the refund onto that card. Wether they want to do it is another question.

Again if its not possible, it is about being made aware of other options rather than say “you have only 1 option” when it is not true.

Sleeper12

j4vier wrote:

My argument is focused on the fact that my relative was only informed about 1 option available which was the return in store for a gift card.

I'm betting if you look at the T&Cs you agreed to when you ordered the goods that it explains all of this. It will explain the process for returning goods bought online. If I worked in the store I would assume that you already knew as you agreed to the T&Cs.

I don't see how the store is at fault in this case

meeeeh

j4vier wrote: »

Again if its not possible, it is about being made aware of other options rather than say “you have only 1 option” when it is not true.

I know exactly what your point is but did you actually contact them and tried to resolve the issue?

Esse85

Whether they can process the refund onto your card without you actually having the card, I don't know about that. I'm sure if you went in and requested to speak with a manager you'd get a refund back on the card you paid with.

Sleeper12

meeeeh wrote:

Any Brown Thomas item bought online can be returned to shop. Unless there was some other reason op didn't mention the full refund should be processed.

Only in the original packing and original labels. I'm guessing that goods weren't returned in original postage packing

j4vier

meeeeh wrote: »

I know exactly what your point is but did you actually contact them and tried to resolve the issue?

Yes i did by email, will follow up tomorrow

j4vier

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Only in the original packing and original labels. I'm guessing that goods weren't returned in original postage packing

The goods were returned in the same state as they were picked up

Sleeper12

Teach30 wrote:

Never heard of it before. I’ve looked it up. What aspect of it should I make myself aware of?

You can return goods for full refund even if you just change your mind. In fact the whole idea of the distance selling legislation is that you can open & inspect the goods b deciding if you want to keep them.

Agree poster came off a little aggressive

Sleeper12

j4vier wrote:

The goods were returned in the same state as they were picked up

That's fair enough. Thanks for the information

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Teach30 wrote: »

Never heard of it before. I’ve looked it up. What aspect of it should I make myself aware of?

The cooling off period.

meeeeh

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Only in the original packing and original labels. I'm guessing that goods weren't returned in original postage packing

They don't need to be. I returned items plenty of times in different postage packaging and got refunded. Postage packaging is completely irrelevant.

I'm pretty sure the fact that relative didn't have the card used for payment was the reason but then they should be advised they have to come back with the card used.

The J Stands for Jay

Dav010 wrote: »

But you had the rules, they are in the terms and conditions you agreed to online when buying the item. Why are you blaming the shop?

Online returns are refunded back onto the account used to purchase them, this protects against fraud. Did your relative have your credit card?

I've returned online purchases to a shop for refund. The card used to make the purchase was not required.

The terms and conditions allowed returns to be made to the shop. This is quite common. They scanned the returns label and all was fine.

Sleeper12

Esse85 wrote:

Whether they can process the refund onto your card without you actually having the card, I don't know about that. I'm sure if you went in and requested to speak with a manager you'd get a refund back on the card you paid with.

I've a small online store. PayPal process all of the payments so I don't have clients card details at all. For refund I click on the refund but on PayPal. PayPal obviously keep card details for a period of time. I assume all companies that processed payment hold the card details for a period of time in case of refund. In short, as the physical card wasn't present at the point of sale I'm guessing that it isn't needed to refund the money. Its different in store. Pay with a credit card & you need to show the same card to get a refund

Darc19

This looks like a simple error.

Staff member in the store probably hadn't dealt with an online return and as the item was collected in store they possibly thought it was a store purchase.

The website does not make it clear how to do an in store return - my guess is that it needs to be dropped off with return label attached, but that is just a guess.

Refund would have to be to the card the payment was made from and possibly has to follow a procedure.

They should give clear information on their returns page to avoid such a situation.

But I think it's a genuine error rather than a policy

Sleeper12

meeeeh wrote:

They don't need to be. I returned items plenty of times in different postage packaging and got refunded. Postage packaging is completely irrelevant.

I don't require it either but the T&Cs you posted stating that original packing is required. I thought perhaps this was being used as a get out of jail for free card. I'm only guessing here.

meeeeh

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I don't require it either but the T&Cs you posted stating that original packing is required. I thought perhaps this was being used as a get out of jail for free card. I'm only guessing here.

I doubt it. I don't think shop assistant has any particular incentive to make life hard for customers. I would think that the problem was that original card was not presented. I know that Zara issues refund on the spot if returning to store and they take the card payment was made with, put it into the machine and authorise the refund. I never returned to the store anything I paid with PayPal so I don't know what the procedure is there.

Darc19

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I've a small online store. PayPal process all of the payments so I don't have clients card details at all. For refund I click on the refund but on PayPal. PayPal obviously keep card details for a period of time. I assume all companies that processed payment hold the card details for a period of time in case of refund. In short, as the physical card wasn't present at the point of sale I'm guessing that it isn't needed to refund the money. Its different in store. Pay with a credit card & you need to show the same card to get a refund

Nope, most online stores use a gateway such as realex. Similar to PayPal, you don't see any card details except type of card and country of issue. For refund, you simply click "refund" and the refund goes to the card automatically.

So doing it in store can pose a difficulty

j4vier

An apology over the phone was the outcome of today, with the issue caused by miscommunication. I wasn't expecting much else so I appreciate they rang at least.

Sleeper12

j4vier wrote: »

An apology over the phone was the outcome of today, with the issue caused by miscommunication. I wasn't expecting much else so I appreciate they rang at least.

Was the problem that you didn't produce the card?

j4vier

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Was the problem that you didn't produce the card?

She did say that it was not possible to refund me without my card used. But she also said that even with the card they shouldn't have refunded me. The only option was to ship them back

Sleeper12

j4vier wrote:

She did say that it was not possible to refund me without my card used. But she also said that even with the card they shouldn't have refunded me. The only option was to ship them back

I wasn't there but it looks like you didn't meet the requirements for an over the counter refund. Chalk it up to a learning experience. Pay closer attention to the t&cs in future

j4vier

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I wasn't there but it looks like you didn't meet the requirements for an over the counter refund. Chalk it up to a learning experience. Pay closer attention to the t&cs in future

My mistake was sending on someone to do it on my behalf and making assumptions. I was aware of the t&cs so if they had told me that i only had one option, i would have left the shop for the post office to get it done that way. Instead my relative didn't know the t&cs and believed the cs agent version.

A lesson learned anyhow.

Sleeper12

j4vier wrote:

A lesson learned anyhow.

We all learn as we move on. Thanks for sharing, it will make others aware of the possibilities,

mea_k

It's stores policy. Infact that they give you option to return for gift card is allready enought. Nobody has to provide you with refund.
And many many stores follow suit....

Darc19

mea_k wrote: »

It's stores policy. Infact that they give you option to return for gift card is allready enought. Nobody has to provide you with refund.
And many many stores follow suit....

Maybe read the original post before giving incorrect information

un5byh7sqpd2x0

mea_k wrote: »

It's stores policy. Infact that they give you option to return for gift card is allready enought. Nobody has to provide you with refund.
And many many stores follow suit....

Here we go again...