Incident on single-lane roundabout

nomdeboardie

Incident on single-lane roundabout


Not looking for advice about the following, which happened a few months ago – I haven’t, and will not, do anything about it, but would be interested to know of any thoughts on it...



I entered the large but single-lane 4-junction roundabout at #1 in the image, intending to leave at the second exit (#3), taking the lane past the first exit (#2) to avoid following traffic cutting me off. I also indicated right briefly to make it even clearer that I did not intend to exit at #2, as was my habit at that time in this situation.

Just after #2, at approx. point #X, I thought of myself as still “taking the lane” before following the road to #3. I would normally move in gradually nearer the curb as I did so, so would often be passed on the right by cars before I reached it – not a problem. However on this occasion a driver decided it there was enough room to pass me on the left, which had never happened to me before and freaked me out. I can’t be sure how close the car got to me or how fast it was going at the time, but in any case I shouted loudly on reflex.

Driver shouted back at me, then “stopped dead” (in the words of an unsolicited witness) to apparently clarify the situation, at which point I suddenly saw their stationary car ahead and next thing I experienced was my face bashing into the back of it.

As I picked myself up and got to the central area, bleeding from the mouth, driver exits car to find out why I shouted, tell me repeatedly that they “did nothing wrong” as they thought I was proceeding to third exit, and offer to help straighten my rotated brake levers (managed myself). Other than that, there wasn’t much damage to my bike, but I still have a lump of scar tissue in my lower lip. Driver gave me their licence number etc and I said if they didn’t hear from me in a day or two I would not be following up...to which they replied that if I did they would “fight it all the way”.

Still don’t really know how to think about it without being omniscient – maybe just a series of unfortunate split-second events, maybe more

Since then, I’ve ceased to indicate right unless going past the second exit, just in case there are any ‘misunderstandings’, and try to cycle PRECISELY in the middle of the lane while craning my head back to observe following traffic.

If I didn’t hate roundabouts enough before...

Peterx

Sorry to hear of your incident. Just to note it appears your image is a different one to the one you are describing.

Glencarraig

How were you hit at X if you were supposed to be taking exit 2 ??

magicbastarder

the driver should under no circumstances have passed you on the left, but i don't think you should have indicated right as you were essentially going straight on through the roundabout.
regarding him stopping dead in the middle of a roundabout; i don't know what the law on this is, but if his stated aim was to stop and remonstrate with you, he was being an asshole.

nomdeboardie

Apologies - just realised my text numbers don't match the numbers in the diagram now - will fix

ETA - numbers fixed in text (though would probably have been better if I had used 0,X,1,2 in diagram, or all-letters)

Snotty

You "moved closer to the kerb" but obviously not seen the car passed on your left?
Also, why would you indicate right if you are taking the next exit?
From sound of this you have some responsibility here, you indicate right and have left enough space on the left for him to pass, from your actions he can only assume you are continuing around the roundabout and he can exit left before that.
If there was not enough room on the left and the driver should not have tried to pass you on the left, then that is another question.

nomdeboardie

Snotty wrote: »

You "moved closer to the kerb" but obviously not seen the car passed on your left?

No, I wrote that "I would normally move in gradually nearer the curb as I" followed "the road to #3". In this case I had not yet moved in.

Also, why would you indicate right if you are taking the next exit?

Explained above - it was momentary, "to make it even clearer that I did not intend to exit at #2". But yes, I won't be doing it again.

From sound of this you have some responsibility here, you indicate right and have left enough space on the left for him to pass, from your actions he can only assume you are continuing around the roundabout and he can exit left before that.
If there was not enough room on the left and the driver should not have tried to pass you on the left, then that is another question.

I agree it was a fuzzy situation, which is why I both feel aggreived and that it would not have been fair to report the incident unless I knew for sure driver was being reckless - felt like it to me, but maybe I was not central enough in the lane

Shai

Look at it from the driver's point of view:

1. you indicated you were gonna go to the right. It seems the driver was paying attention to this and passed you on the left as a result.
2. you then shouted at him for reasons he could not possibly be aware of. He hit his brakes in anger.
3. you weren't paying attention to traffic and slammed into his now stationary car

The driver shouldn't have slammed his brakes, I don't dispute that, but you don't exactly come out blameless here.

ted1

Your description is hard to follow.
If I was taking that roundabout I’d be in the middle of the lane to avoid being cut off.

fat bloke

Your description is very clear to me. If it's a one lane roundabout, then if you mean to take the lane I suppose you should do so in such a way that blocks the lane from following traffic.

None of this takes away from the fact that the driver is an absolute cnut for passing you on the inside on a single lane and then IMO brake-testing you once in front of you.

nomdeboardie

Shai wrote: »

Look at it from the driver's point of view:

1. you indicated you were gonna go to the right. It seems the driver was paying attention to this and passed you on the left as a result.
2. you then shouted at him for reasons he could not possibly be aware of. He hit his brakes in anger.
3. you weren't paying attention to traffic and slammed into his now stationary car

The driver shouldn't have slammed his brakes, I don't dispute that, but you don't exactly come out blameless here.

Re 1: Yes, though undertaking on a single-lane roudabout seems dodgy to me, unless at very low speed in a traffic jam?...haven't managed to find any info re the legality!
Re 3: I can't guarentee a better-coordinated cyclist would have avoided it, but to be fair, I was ahead of the car, it maouevered arounfd me questionably and stopped dead

beauf

You undertake someone on a roundabout and stop dead in front of them you're at fault in my eyes.

It would be the same as a brake check on a something that can't stop as quick like a truck.

nomdeboardie

ted1 wrote: »

Your description is hard to follow.
If I was taking that roundabout I’d be in the middle of the lane to avoid being cut off.

I indeed did think I was in the middle of the lane...seemingly not central enough for the following driver to perceive is as so, though

troyzer

If I saw a car indicating to go right on a roundabout and I was going straight, I would try to pass him on the left.

Drivers do this fifty times a day. Stopping in the middle of a roundabout was a dumb move on his part but ultimately it's your fault.

Why you'd signal right when you're going straight is beyond me.

beauf

Always thought the 12 o clock rule is dumb. 12 o clock is subjective in real life.

Taking any later
exits (those past
12 o’clock - Right)
 Approach in the righthand lane (unless road
markings say otherwise),
indicate ‘right ‘on your
approach and leave
your indicator on
until you have passed
the exit before the one
you intend to take.
Then change to the
‘left’ turn indicator.

beauf

What caused the accident was not the indicating. Its the brake check in the middle of a roundabout. Probably deliberately, and he suckered you.

nomdeboardie

troyzer wrote: »

If I saw a car indicating to go right on a roundabout and I was going straight, I would try to pass him on the left.

It would not have been possible here - single lane. That's part of the fuzziness - expectations re bicycles?

troyzer wrote: »

Why you'd signal right when you're going straight is beyond me.

As I said before, it was momentary to make it clear I was not exiting at the first; if I were driving a car I would even not have had that worry as no one could cut me off.

troyzer

nomdeboardie wrote: »

It would not have been possible here - single lane. That's part of the fuzziness - expectations re bicycles?

As I said before, it was momentary to make it clear I was not exiting at the first; if I were driving a car I would even not have had that worry as no one could cut me off.

It's single lane on the roundabout but I would assume that as you pass the exit, a gap would open. Meaning that I would be right on your arse and not slowing down but you're supposed to continue on.

This is not how people should drive. But it's how they do drive.

nomdeboardie

Actually, if I recall correctly , this very roundabout was altered some years ago from 2-lane to single-lane...implying that single-file was thought safer here?...

sy_flembeck

I know this roundabout well. You're right of course, it is single lane. Bottom line for me is if it's single lane then there is no overtaking of anyone by anyone else regardless of indication. Most drivers haven't a clue how to indicate on roundabouts anyway but that doesn't give any of us a carte blanche to cut them up.

I'm with the OP 100%

droidus

I cant think of any circumstances where it's acceptable to under or overtake someone and then immediately brake.

magicbastarder

i don't understand the logical link some posters draw between 'poster did X and driver did Y therefore X caused Y and poster is to blame'.
on a single lane roundabout, you don't go left, right, under or over the vehicle in front of you.
if the driver thought the OP was going further round the roundabout than was actually the case, this still does not warrant pulling alongside. the only scenario where i could see any grey area is if the driver was approaching his own exit, so going straight when the OP was still moving rightwards. but this is clearly not the case here, the driver overtook on the left.

i've been in a similar scenario, having been undertaken on the left while on a roundabout. it's not fun.

beauf

I think it was some to bully the op and they didn't really care if they injured (or worse) anyone.

Anyone with any sense would stay back from a cyclist or driver that you weren't sure if their intentions.

nomdeboardie

Thanks for the impressions everyone - I'm willing to take the rough with the smooth, and realise that without a drone's-eye footage plus brain recordings from both myself and the driver the event will never be fully clear!

Plus I think there is something of an, er, gap in guidance for behaviour on single-lane roundabouts around bicycles

beauf

Even if there were clear rules many would ignore them. It's not a rules problem. It has become culturally acceptable not to have consideration for other peoples safety.

eeeee

I know this roundabout.
It is single lane only.
I ride, as I think the OP did right in the middle so cars can't overtake.
Also indicating right when you're exiting beyond the first exit is correct, and I've done it myself there because cars tend to just run straight onto that roundabout and assume you're exiting where ever you're nearest.

Car was 100% wrong, and the definition of an arsehole.
People not knowing how to drive our the famous rules of the road is no excuse for dangerous driving, which is what happened here.

Hope you're alright OP.

RacoonQueen

roundabouts are somewhere you should never try overtake a bicycle IMO, unless it’s a massive one like ones at major M50 junctions etc drivers actions were ridiculous, typical lack of patience. In a car I wouldn’t indicate right for taking Exit 3 in the pic but on a bike I might, depending on other traffic.

Hoboo

What an arsehole. Lucky you only planted your face into his car. Only. Hope you reported it, that's insane what he did.

Think you were completely in the right btw. Why people can't be patient I don't know, can understand a bunched two a breast 40 man peleton on a country road being annoying but one bike on a single lane roundabout?

pm1977x

I too know this roundabout and am on it several times a week, if there's a cyclist ahead of me it would never occur to me to overtake or undertake them, even if they're off to the side, the car driver was completely in the wrong and to make it worse slammed on the brakes causing the accident, so he was at fault twice.

nomdeboardie

Hoboo wrote: »

What an arsehole. Lucky you only planted your face into his car. Only. Hope you reported it, that's insane what he did.

Think you were completely in the right btw. Why people can't be patient I don't know, can understand a bunched two a breast 40 man peleton on a country road being annoying but one bike on a single lane roundabout?

Thanks but no, the whole sequence of events was so complex and uncertain I thought its wouldn't be fair

Unknown Soldier

It is common practise and I'm nearly sure mentioned in the UK's Highway code, that you "should" signal going past an exit to indicate you are not leaving the round about if you are on a bike, or that it is good practise or something.

Quite frankly I use indicating while cycling as the ONLY way I have to communicate with vehicles. I have no problems indicating right going past a first exit etc, if it means that vehicles behind me or coming onto the roundabout know what I am doing.

That being said, in this instance OP, where we would differ is that I don't take the lane par se, I position myself to block any vehicles behind me in a manner that keeps me safe, I'd have kept more to the left in your case, as you'd past the first exit and yours was next.

nomdeboardie

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

It is common practise and I'm nearly sure mentioned in the UK's Highway code, that you "should" signal going past an exit to indicate you are not leaving the round about if you are on a bike, or that it is good practise or something.

Quite frankly I use indicating while cycling as the ONLY way I have to communicate with vehicles. I have no problems indicating right going past a first exit etc, if it means that vehicles behind me or coming onto the roundabout know what I am doing..

That sort of ring a bell with me too, though it might be referring to a situation in a 2-lane roundabout where the cyclist chooses to stay in the left lane though taking 3rd/later exit(?)

That being said, in this instance OP, where we would differ is that I don't take the lane par se, I position myself to block any vehicles behind me in a manner that keeps me safe, I'd have kept more to the left in your case, as you'd past the first exit and yours was next.

I indeed thought I was blocking the lane, but must have been too far right to make it impossible for the car to worm through on the left

CramCycle

There are mistakes by both parties but those errors are mutually exclusive and does not excuse either. At the OP, it's single lane and a roundabout. You should not have indicated right at any point in the scenario you describe. This though, is just an error, one that annoys me but one that on a single lane roundabout is nothing more than annoying. The driver, no matter where you indicated or positioned yourself, undertook on a single traffic lane, where any intelligent driver will tell you, who gives a **** where the other party said they intend going, it's a single lane, just wait the 2 seconds. At best they stopped in reaction to your about out of concern but it sounds more like they brake tested you knowing you were likely to come off worse. The driver was at best an idiot, at worse an assh@t. You can't fix either but learn for yourself, take the lane completely. A family member lives only a few minutes away, that roundabout takes no more than 12seconds if your slow and going to the last exit so just block everything, they would have not been delayed any longer if a car had been on it anyway so your inconveniencing nobody.

doozerie

The Rules of the Road (PDF document) say that for motorists on roundabouts you use your right indicator only if taking an exit between 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock positions. So no right indicator if taking the second exit on this particular roundabout.

However, the following (poorly worded) section could be interpreted as saying that signalling right by cyclists and horse riders should be expected even if they are taking the second exit:

In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to:
* pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads,
* traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit,
* traffic that may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly,
* motorcyclists,
* cyclists and horse riders who may stay in the left-hand lane and signal right if they intend to continue round the roundabout,
* long vehicles (including those towing trailers), which might have to take a different course approaching or on the roundabout because of their length. Watch out for their signals.

So the motorist was in the wrong.

Of course all of that is immaterial in this case anyway, the motorist undertook on a single lane roundabout and there is no justification for that, it's bad driving plain and simple. And slamming on the brakes elevates them from bad driver to complete arsehole.