Capturing night images with lights - please advise

Sheepdish1

Hi, I'm going somewhere tomorrow and would like to take photos of my kids with Xmas lights etc in some photo I have a Canon EOS 550D, both standard lens and 50mm lens.

When I take photos ay night they just don't come out well on the camera, very dull and also very blurry or the flash takes away from the lights I am trying to capture in image.

When I use my phone - through frustration at not being able to get nice shots on camera - it captures what I was hoping to get on my camera. People's face glowing, dark background with lights etc. But phone quality is just not as a good as a camera.

But when I try to this on my camera either
a) The flash ruins the light affect
b) the image is really blurry from slightest movement of person I am photographing

Any help would be greatly appreciated

GBX

Are you using a tripod with the camera? It'll help greatly. The phone will allow more light in to a point without a tripod. Use a slower shutter speed as well.

CelticRambler

If the pictures are blurred, then it sounds like a wrong shutter speed is a part of the problem. This could be because you're shooting in manual, or with too narrow an aperture, or with an ISO fixed at too high a speed. We'd really need to know all these settings to figure out what you can improve.

If you're using a flash, it's possible that the DSLR flash is significantly more powerful than the one on the phone, so the phone is essentially capturing only ambient light (and adjusting its settings accordingly) whereas the DSLR (on auto?) is correctly exposing the too-bright flash-lit faces at the expense of all the background light.

Also, you don't say if these are indoor or outdoor pictures. It'll make a big difference how you handle depth-of-field if the background is only a few metres way or well back from the children.

Heebie

You're trying to get two separate photos in one exposure.

Your camera may or may not be able to do this right, and if you're using an external flash, it may have problems with it, too. Some have a backlit+night mode just for this.

Manually:
You need to be shooting on a stable tripod. You'll want to set your depth of field just deep enough to have the people in front and the lights in back in focus. (a tilt/shift lens could drastically increase the depth of field without increasing the exposure time nor aperture)
Get things lined up so you can get a perfect exposure of the background lights. You don't want a super-short exposure, at least several seconds.
Get the people into the scene with little or no light on them.
Get them to stay still in the photo, and manually trigger a hand-held (or on a tripod/light stand separate from the camera) flash during the exposure.
Try and keep the flash pointed only at the people. Adjust the power on the flash until you're getting a good exposure of the people. (The exposure of the lights should remain constant)

Good luck!

Sheepdish1

GBX wrote: »

Are you using a tripod with the camera? It'll help greatly. The phone will allow more light in to a point without a tripod. Use a slower shutter speed as well.

Thank you for good suggestion but I would like to be able to take photos while walking around etc without having to set up tripod as it is really more for family occasions

Sheepdish1

CelticRambler wrote: »

If the pictures are blurred, then it sounds like a wrong shutter speed is a part of the problem. This could be because you're shooting in manual, or with too narrow an aperture, or with an ISO fixed at too high a speed. We'd really need to know all these settings to figure out what you can improve.

If you're using a flash, it's possible that the DSLR flash is significantly more powerful than the one on the phone, so the phone is essentially capturing only ambient light (and adjusting its settings accordingly) whereas the DSLR (on auto?) is correctly exposing the too-bright flash-lit faces at the expense of all the background light.

Also, you don't say if these are indoor or outdoor pictures. It'll make a big difference how you handle depth-of-field if the background is only a few metres way or well back from the children.

Hi thank you

I was taking the photos on automatic and then trying them on automatic without flash :rolleyes: I am very new to photography and struggle with settings and how they affect each other.

I'll try post pictures to show type of style I would like to get, these would be outdoor

Sheepdish1

[Attachment not found.Attachment not found.untitled-15560web.jpg

Just for examples - these aren't my photos

Sheepdish1

Heebie wrote: »

You're trying to get two separate photos in one exposure.

Your camera may or may not be able to do this right, and if you're using an external flash, it may have problems with it, too. Some have a backlit+night mode just for this.

Manually:
You need to be shooting on a stable tripod. You'll want to set your depth of field just deep enough to have the people in front and the lights in back in focus. (a tilt/shift lens could drastically increase the depth of field without increasing the exposure time nor aperture)
Get things lined up so you can get a perfect exposure of the background lights. You don't want a super-short exposure, at least several seconds.
Get the people into the scene with little or no light on them.
Get them to stay still in the photo, and manually trigger a hand-held (or on a tripod/light stand separate from the camera) flash during the exposure.
Try and keep the flash pointed only at the people. Adjust the power on the flash until you're getting a good exposure of the people. (The exposure of the lights should remain constant)

Good luck!

Thanks, I've attached the type of images I am trying to achieve, I don't think these would use a flash? I also can't use a tripod as I wouldn't be able to carry it around all the time

CelticRambler

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I am very new to photography and struggle with settings and how they affect each other.

Then it'll be impossible to give you a "quick fix" for this weekend. You need to learn what all the buttons on the DSLR do; you need to learn how aperture, iso and shutter speed interact; and you need to learn about composition. That's an awful lot to practise while also trying to take pictures of lively children!

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

Just for examples - these aren't my photos

... and for that reason, they're not really that helpful. We can't tell you why your photos don't look like that if you don't show us your pictures. :cool: Chances are some/all of those samples were carefully set up over the course of a whole day/evening, using more equipment than you've got access to, and carefully edited afterwards.

Having said above that it's impossible to give you a "quick fix" for this weekend, you could try the following as a starting point:
- 50mm lens
- ISO set to 3200
- in "Tv" (shutter priority) mode, shutter speed set to 1/100sec
- no flash
- don't use the LCD display, only the viewfinder
- make sure you know how to use the focus points and pick the one in the centre
- make sure metering is set to centre-weighted average
- crouch/get down on your knees so that the camera is at or below the level of the child's face
- take the photo!

Then let us know (or show us ) how it's working out.

Sheepdish1

CelticRambler wrote: »

Then it'll be impossible to give you a "quick fix" for this weekend. You need to learn what all the buttons on the DSLR do; you need to learn how aperture, iso and shutter speed interact; and you need to learn about composition. That's an awful lot to practise while also trying to take pictures of lively children!


... and for that reason, they're not really that helpful. We can't tell you why your photos don't look like that if you don't show us your pictures. :cool: Chances are some/all of those samples were carefully set up over the course of a whole day/evening, using more equipment than you've got access to, and carefully edited afterwards.

Having said above that it's impossible to give you a "quick fix" for this weekend, you could try the following as a starting point:
- 50mm lens
- ISO set to 3200
- in "Tv" (shutter priority) mode, shutter speed set to 1/100sec
- no flash
- don't use the LCD display, only the viewfinder
- make sure you know how to use the focus points and pick the one in the centre
- make sure metering is set to centre-weighted average
- crouch/get down on your knees so that the camera is at or below the level of the child's face
- take the photo!

Then let us know (or show us ) how it's working out.

I understand how to adjust the iso ss and fstop which is a start

Do you really think that they would have been set up? They don’t look like they have flash in them either.

That’s great I’ll start with these points that you’ve mentioned thank you 😊

- is there any reason why I should use 50mm lens as opposed to the 18-55 mm I have. I do have 50mm lens that I can use too I’m just curious why

- would it be better to use manual as opposed to tv mode as set it to 1/100 ?

- the focus points don’t appear through view finder it would be great if you could explain more what this means

- what does metering set to centre weighted average ?

I don’t understand how I can easily take photos like these on iPhones but how it is so difficult on a camera I can get the type of photo I’m trying to get on iPhone but want to get them on camera so quality is better when printed. On my camera I can’t take them at all, it’s very frustrating

CelticRambler

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

Do you really think that they would have been set up? They don’t look like they have flash in them either.

By "set up" I mean that the photographer spent (a long) time looking at the scene, figured out how the different lights would fall on the child/ren and the background, got themselves into the right position, maybe moved people or things out of (or into) the frame - or waited for this to happen- and/or had a cooperative child pose for the photo while they fired off a dozen or more shots. In other words: anything other than a quick snapshot.

They don't look like a flash was used, but then if you (and the camera) have done things correctly, it should never look like a flash was used in a good photo! :cool:

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

- is there any reason why I should use 50mm lens as opposed to the 18-55 mm I have. I do have 50mm lens that I can use too I’m just curious why

- would it be better to use manual as opposed to tv mode as set it to 1/100 ?

I'm assuming you've got the Canon (or Yongnuo) 50mm f/1.8. That'll allow you to shoot in lower light than the f/3.5 max aperture of the 18-55mm.

Given your lack of experience, it's probably too much of a jump for you to go completely manual right now, so let the camera help out. Setting a high iso and the "right" shutter speed (twice the focal length, to avoid shaky images) is enough to concentrate on for now. The camera will then pick the right aperture, for which the extra stops above f/3.5 may be necessary.

These wider apertures will also give you an in-focus face and an out-of-focus background [terms and conditions apply :pac: ]

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

- the focus points don’t appear through view finder it would be great if you could explain more what this means

- what does metering set to centre weighted average ?

The focus point appears as a little red dot in the viewfinder when you half-press the shutter-release. You can set/change it using the LCD screen (see this video ) but it's quicker and useful to be able to do it while using the viewfinder. On the back of the camera, there's a button top right, marked with a sort of cross in a box - that's the focus-point selection button. Holding the camera to your eye, your thumb falls naturally on to this spot. Press it, spin the wheel under your index finger and, looking through the viewfinder, you'll see the red dot shift from one point to the next. Stop spinning when it gets to the single centre point.

Metering is how the camera knows how to correctly expose the picture. The devault is "evaluative" which roughly translates as "the whole scene". That's not what you want for these pictures - you want a well-exposed face and the rest is less important. Centre-weighted average will give priority to the face but still take account of the light in the back. There's another setting (Spot) which is really specific to that centre point, but you want some of the background detail too, so that's not appropriate for this exercise. Another explanatory video

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I don’t understand how I can easily take photos like these on iPhones but how it is so difficult on a camera

Without wishing to start an argument because iPhone cameras and software are specifically designed to take photos the way humans see the scene without the human needing to think too hard!

Sheepdish1

CelticRambler wrote: »

By "set up" I mean that the photographer spent (a long) time looking at the scene, figured out how the different lights would fall on the child/ren and the background, got themselves into the right position, maybe moved people or things out of (or into) the frame - or waited for this to happen- and/or had a cooperative child pose for the photo while they fired off a dozen or more shots. In other words: anything other than a quick snapshot.

They don't look like a flash was used, but then if you (and the camera) have done things correctly, it should never look like a flash was used in a good photo! :cool:



I'm assuming you've got the Canon (or Yongnuo) 50mm f/1.8. That'll allow you to shoot in lower light than the f/3.5 max aperture of the 18-55mm.

Given your lack of experience, it's probably too much of a jump for you to go completely manual right now, so let the camera help out. Setting a high iso and the "right" shutter speed (twice the focal length, to avoid shaky images) is enough to concentrate on for now. The camera will then pick the right aperture, for which the extra stops above f/3.5 may be necessary.

These wider apertures will also give you an in-focus face and an out-of-focus background [terms and conditions apply :pac: ]



The focus point appears as a little red dot in the viewfinder when you half-press the shutter-release. You can set/change it using the LCD screen (see this video ) but it's quicker and useful to be able to do it while using the viewfinder. On the back of the camera, there's a button top right, marked with a sort of cross in a box - that's the focus-point selection button. Holding the camera to your eye, your thumb falls naturally on to this spot. Press it, spin the wheel under your index finger and, looking through the viewfinder, you'll see the red dot shift from one point to the next. Stop spinning when it gets to the single centre point.

Metering is how the camera knows how to correctly expose the picture. The devault is "evaluative" which roughly translates as "the whole scene". That's not what you want for these pictures - you want a well-exposed face and the rest is less important. Centre-weighted average will give priority to the face but still take account of the light in the back. There's another setting (Spot) which is really specific to that centre point, but you want some of the background detail too, so that's not appropriate for this exercise. Another explanatory video


Without wishing to start an argument because iPhone cameras and software are specifically designed to take photos the way humans see the scene without the human needing to think too hard!

I tried out a few shots in my sitting room using fairy lights against decorations in manual setting - i completely see what the difference with iso is now thank you I can see that in that setting 1600 was too dark, 6400 was too grainy and 3200 was perfect. I left the shutter speed at 1/125 as people will move naturally
the lowest my fstop goes is 4 so ill use this to get blurry affect on the background


I saw the little focal points, I needed to adjust the view finder and I can see them perfect now, thank you

Sheepdish1

Also you said that manual might be too much of a jump? How else would I set the right ss and ISO and let camera do the fstop, is this AV mode or ADEP mode ? thanks so much

Also should the 50mm be easier to take better photos with? Thanks

CelticRambler

Glad to hear you're making progress.

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

the lowest my fstop goes is 4 so ill use this to get blurry affect on the background

Are you referring to the 50mm setting on the 18-55mm zoom lens? A 50mm prime (e.g. the bog-standard Canon or Yongnuo 50mm) will/should open much wider than that. In fact, doing a quick search, I can't find one that doesn't open to at least f/1.8. If that's not what you have, you should get one!

CelticRambler

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

How else would I set the right ss and ISO and let camera do the fstop,

On the back, bottom right, you have the up/down/left/right combo - one of them is marked "ISO". Press it! Now use the left/right OR the index-finger wheel to change to the ISO of your choice; press "SET" and you're done.

For the shutter speed, set the programme dial to Tv and use the wheel to scroll through the speeds until you get 1/100 or 1/125.

Don't change anything else now and the camera will automatically work out the right aperture to correctly expose the shot (based on the aforementioned metering parameters)

There's nothing to stop you setting the aperture in manual mode as well if you want - but then you have to figure out how to get a correctly exposed shot - with additional light or shade!

If you're thinking along those lines, though, you can experiment with aperture priority (Av) - and a wide f/stop - for maximum background blur. This is where you risk running into problems with shutter-speed, though - at f/3.5, even at ISO 3200, the camera might decide to shoot at 1/30. Then you'll have to think about whether you're going accept a grainy ISO 6400, or under-expose now and use software later to brighten the image.

It all comes down to picking the best set of parameters for the situation you find yourself in, and using the camera's brain to do the calculations you're less comfortable with - something you'll get used to with more practice.

Sheepdish1

CelticRambler wrote: »

On the back, bottom right, you have the up/down/left/right combo - one of them is marked "ISO". Press it! Now use the left/right OR the index-finger wheel to change to the ISO of your choice; press "SET" and you're done.

For the shutter speed, set the programme dial to Tv and use the wheel to scroll through the speeds until you get 1/100 or 1/125.

Don't change anything else now and the camera will automatically work out the right aperture to correctly expose the shot (based on the aforementioned metering parameters)

There's nothing to stop you setting the aperture in manual mode as well if you want - but then you have to figure out how to get a correctly exposed shot - with additional light or shade!

If you're thinking along those lines, though, you can experiment with aperture priority (Av) - and a wide f/stop - for maximum background blur. This is where you risk running into problems with shutter-speed, though - at f/3.5, even at ISO 3200, the camera might decide to shoot at 1/30. Then you'll have to think about whether you're going accept a grainy ISO 6400, or under-expose now and use software later to brighten the image.

It all comes down to picking the best set of parameters for the situation you find yourself in, and using the camera's brain to do the calculations you're less comfortable with - something you'll get used to with more practice.

Perfect! I think I’ll try use the TV or AV mode if the manual isn’t working for me well. hopefully it will take a what I’m hoping for! I have a feeling I’ll be relying on my iPhone to get the shots I want.

I didn’t try night mode so may have a look at that too!

Sheepdish1

CelticRambler wrote: »

Glad to hear you're making progress.



Are you referring to the 50mm setting on the 18-55mm zoom lens? A 50mm prime (e.g. the bog-standard Canon or Yongnuo 50mm) will/should open much wider than that. In fact, doing a quick search, I can't find one that doesn't open to at least f/1.8. If that's not what you have, you should get one!

I have a 50 mm but haven’t had time to experiment with it in low light settings but may give it a go tonight. I thought the fstop was dictated by my camera as opposed to lens! It’s really odd,

I find cameras very difficult to understand, other things I can read once and understand very quickly but so I don’t really know why I struggle so much with cameras and settings. I think I become overloaded with info online. I may buy a book and learn that way as that’s how I learn best

Fionn

You should check out Youtube, theres lots of video tutorials that will help you. Do a search for Canon 550D Training Video - Beginner guide to photography.

Good Luck!

Fr Tod Umptious

When I first got an SLR over 20 years ago the first thing I did was a night course on photography.

It covered all the fundamentals of light, shutter speed, ISO, apeture, etc.

It was brilliant because it helped me understand the "science" of how the camera worked and how photos looked like they did.

I'd advise anyone with a DSLR to learn that sort of stuff, it will really enhance your enjoyment of using your camera and you will get so much more out of your camera.