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One in nine children brought up in home with no working adult

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,795 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I'd have thought it was higher tbh.
    The welfare is far too good if you know how to work the system which all these non working households clearly do.
    I'd be in favour of a universal payment to everyone that tg was quickly taken back in tax on the first portion of earned income.
    The advantage would be that it would always pay to work. So you get your payment then if you work 5 hours or 50 hours per week, you will be gaining instead of the current situation where people cannot leave welfare unless they get a job paying 60k.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ireland-s-economy/
    Ireland’s economy is outperforming most other Eurozone countries with almost full employment and rising real wages.

    I doubt it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭X111111111111


    Some people are just unemployable. I've interviewed plenty of them and I wouldn't give them a job in a fit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    mickdw wrote: »
    . So you get your payment then if you work 5 hours or 50 hours per week, you will be gaining instead of the current situation where people cannot leave welfare unless they get a job paying 60k.

    Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    theres a good lifestyle to be made bieng a stay at home lone parent. those types have more kids than working families so upset the average. Fathers being around (let alone working ones) becoming increasingly rarer.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Lots of minimum wage jobs out there, not worth some people's time to take one. Loss of to many benefits.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

    Add on hap and other benefits and its a fair bit more, the 60k comment probably a bit exaggerated but for many there is little incentive to go into low paid work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,795 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

    And you could set up tax system to claw it all back in first 20k earnings so zero cost for most employed people.
    The advantage is no welfare trap. The more you work, the more cash you have regardless of circumstances.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,458 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Some people are just unemployable. I've interviewed plenty of them and I wouldn't give them a job in a fit.

    Your situation seems to have improved in the last month from working 16 hours a week to interviewing people.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111905889&postcount=197

    "12k per year as a PAYE worker 16 hrs per week (very little tax on that), 6k social welfare per annum and about 11k per annum as a take away delivery driver 2 nights a week. Things are tight but im time rich which is the most important thing for me."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Some people are just unemployable. I've interviewed plenty of them and I wouldn't give them a job in a fit.

    In what way


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    Would it be skewed by the fact that the jobless couple may have more children than the couple with a job ?

    If you take 100 couples who have on average 1.5 children you get 150 children.

    If you take the unemployment rate is 5% so in theory 5 of those couples are unemployed.

    But if those couples had 5 children each that gives you 25 children.

    So in this example 17% of children are brought up in a home with no working adult.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ...

    Or we could look at:

    The costs of childcare
    Or
    Families having to move away from their support network (grandparents/aunt's/uncles) etc as it's too expensive to rent in their home town.
    Or
    Why some families could be over 300pw better off if the parents separated.

    It's not always lazy people :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,830 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Some people are just unemployable. I've interviewed plenty of them and I wouldn't give them a job in a fit.

    john4321 wrote: »
    Your situation seems to have improved in the last month from working 16 hours a week to interviewing people.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111905889&postcount=197

    "12k per year as a PAYE worker 16 hrs per week (very little tax on that), 6k social welfare per annum and about 11k per annum as a take away delivery driver 2 nights a week. Things are tight but im time rich which is the most important thing for me."

    Someone call the police!!! There has been a murder on Boards.ie :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 MichaelKnee


    I've worked my whole life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    john4321 wrote: »
    Your situation seems to have improved in the last month from working 16 hours a week to interviewing people.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111905889&postcount=197

    "12k per year as a PAYE worker 16 hrs per week (very little tax on that), 6k social welfare per annum and about 11k per annum as a take away delivery driver 2 nights a week. Things are tight but im time rich which is the most important thing for me."

    Lots of Walter Mitty types on Boards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,435 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

    Noone with kids on a full means tested payment is earning only €202 per week. Your post is a bit disingenuous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭Feisar


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

    The fabled Maggie Cash for example would need a job paying 85k to come home with the same as she gets sitting on the doll. She’d need more to break even as she’d need to pay for child care.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    ...

    Or we could look at:

    The costs of childcare
    Or
    Families having to move away from their support network (grandparents/aunt's/uncles) etc as it's too expensive to rent in their home town.
    Or
    Why some families could be over 300pw better off if the parents separated.

    It's not always lazy people :rolleyes:

    We could also consider there may be instances where a parent is a carer - for an adult partner or a child. They would technically be 'jobless' while saving the State thousands.

    'No working adult' can mean many things.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,071 ✭✭✭MarkY91


    Some people are just unemployable. I've interviewed plenty of them and I wouldn't give them a job in a fit.

    I'd be interested in hearing about some of the people you interviewed. Might make an interesting thread..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

    You forgot to mention the add on benefits.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    What some folks above describe as solutions is effectively UBI (Universal Basic Income), or 'the freedome dividend' as it's proposed in the USA.

    I.e. You get 250 or so per week for nothing. If you work an additional 2hr or even 80hr per week, you still keep the 250 regardless (and don't have to fill out any forms or push prams onto buses for welfare interviews) for these varied 'nixers/gigs'. Ideally suited to the emerging 'zero-hours contract gig-economy', and in a coming era whereby most of the unskilled (and even highly skilled), will be outclassed by the ai-bots (aka 4th industrial reveloution).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,244 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Ive met loads of unemployable people. Unfortunately most of them were coworkers.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 157 ✭✭FAMLEE


    If a person with a dependent (child) on the dole can claim between 250-300 a week & they have no qualifications.. why would they work 40hours/week minimum wage for -350? Factor in, travelling costs etc. it makes no sense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-nine-children-brought-up-in-home-with-no-working-adult-38828357.html

    That's a shocking figure. Why is there so many jobless households? Is it because the benefits are too high to give up for a job or because of a demotivated workforce?

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ireland-s-economy/
    Ireland’s economy is outperforming most other Eurozone countries with almost full employment and rising real wages.

    No, deciding not to work won't get you any state aid unless you commit some kind of fraud and tell lies they believe, which usually require verification any way.
    Anyone availing of welfare is more than likely eligible and in need of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    We could also consider there may be instances where a parent is a carer - for an adult partner or a child. They would technically be 'jobless' while saving the State thousands.

    'No working adult' can mean many things.

    My wife is my carer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Icsics


    Social welfare is too high, once all the add ons are included. Would be interesting to see what the % of traveler households are employed


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Icsics wrote: »
    Social welfare is too high, once all the add ons are included. Would be interesting to see what the % of traveler households are employed

    I think we do have a stat on that, its single digit % iirc

    edit : https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itseah/

    12% of traveller men work, 10% of traveller women....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    In most cases one adult would be free to work while the other minds the children so the childcare is a red herring I think.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    I was working until last year until I quit. To be honest, I should have done it sooner.

    What are you doing for income if I might ask? You can't quit and claim welfare.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 157 ✭✭FAMLEE


    I think we do have a stat on that, its single digit % iirc

    edit : https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itseah/

    12% of traveller men work, 10% of traveller women....

    But 100% of traveller men have a big ball of 50e notes in their pocket at all times?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    What are you doing for income if I might ask? You can't quit and claim welfare.

    Youre better than this matt... 1 post...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭2 fast


    ...

    Or we could look at:

    The costs of childcare
    Or
    Families having to move away from their support network (grandparents/aunt's/uncles) etc as it's too expensive to rent in their home town.
    Or
    Why some families could be over 300pw better off if the parents separated.

    It's not always lazy people :rolleyes:

    This is very true, childcare is like a second mortgage and a lot of job pay so poorly. Easy to jump to conclusions


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,231 ✭✭✭Hercule Poirot


    I've interviewed people and offered them jobs only to have them explain that it wouldn't make financial sense to take the job. We're talking 40 hour weeks at 10/11e an hour but they turn it down because it's not worth their while. I wouldn't describe them as scroungers just people looking out for themselves - I did try to explain that the wage will increase over time but a lot of them only think in the short term. Hard to blame them in some cases.

    And while the dole might be around 11k p/a when you factor in rent allowance, child allowance, etc, it's a higher figure again.

    Obviously there are people who are content to abuse the system but for others, who may not have higher education, it just makes no financial sense to take minimum wage jobs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 147 ✭✭Lily_Aldrin7


    In most cases one adult would be free to work while the other minds the children so the childcare is a red herring I think.

    I was about to say that- my partner stays at home because we have 2 kids- it’s 250 per child per week (50 a day) to go to the childminder’s. He didn’t even make that much at work. There are families with more than 2 kids obviously. The only thing is he doesn’t get any social because as far as we know, you need to be looking for a job in order to get benefits ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,064 ✭✭✭aaakev


    Anyone availing of welfare is more than likely eligible and in need of it.

    Not sure if your taking the piss with that but if your not you are very naive....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    Yep, benefits are way too high. As in, the allowances - benefits are fair in most cases, Jobseekers BENEFIT from earning stamps, illness BENEFIT from paying your taxes then getting unfortunately sick.


    Jobseekers allowance shouldn't be as high as it is, as you get people that abuse it, many of them too, people sitting on it for 15 years straight. Able bodied, lazy people.

    1 in 9 is a shocking figure. That would almost mean 1 in 9 are in poverty

    I don't mean 'stay at home mums/dads' that it benefits for one parent to stay home while the other is out being the breadwinner,

    I mean families that never intend to work or go out working whatsoever, expecting the government to fund them for their entire life


    Obviously it makes sense for some families to have a parent home but not for others never intending to work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Youre better than this matt... 1 post...

    Couldn't help it I was curious where it was going ;)
    aaakev wrote: »
    Not sure if your taking the piss with that but if your not you are very naive....

    You cannot quit your job and sign on welfare. They won't take you. If it was even half as advertised on Boards we'd all give it a go.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,064 ✭✭✭aaakev


    Couldn't help it I was curious where it was going ;)



    You cannot quit your job and sign on welfare. They won't take you.

    They will take you after 8 weeks. If you lie you will get it straight away


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 112 ✭✭jinish


    Its a joke. The Govt should tighten the criteria for welfare and use the saved money to support working parents by providing some kind of subsidised childcare facilities. Its very very very very hard on working parents to manage
    1. work
    2. child care
    3. save few penny for a mortgage


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,494 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    If a family is on minimum wage ,say 39hr week, they can claim Working Family Payment, could be a extra €140 a week for a family with 2 kids and still keep benefits, medical card etc..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭maxwell smart


    We seem to have reached peak employment, the only people who are now (seriously) looking for a new job are people looking to change.

    Where I work we had a role advertised for 3 weeks. Package was 40k basic, bonus of 12k+, car, healthcare etc.

    We got 7 applicants, 5 of which were from a combination of India, the Gulf and the Ukraine.

    And it was a great role.

    I think if you have 2 kids you need to gross 44k to get the same value as being on welfare. Something very wrong there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭boombang


    Great that Leo Varadkar has stepped in to protect those that get up early, oh wait...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 112 ✭✭jinish


    We seem to have reached peak employment, the only people who are now (seriously) looking for a new job are people looking to change.

    Where I work we had a role advertised for 3 weeks. Package was 40k basic, bonus of 12k+, car, healthcare etc.

    We got 7 applicants, 5 of which were from a combination of India, the Gulf and the Ukraine.

    And it was a great role.

    I think if you have 2 kids you need to gross 44k to get the same value as being on welfare. Something very wrong there.

    something very wrong indeed!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    aaakev wrote: »
    They will take you after 8 weeks. If you lie you will get it straight away

    Yes, they do after a review. You can't quit and walk in, sign on.
    You can do many a thing you shouldn't if you lie. That said you need verify the lies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭X111111111111


    john4321 wrote: »
    Your situation seems to have improved in the last month from working 16 hours a week to interviewing people.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111905889&postcount=197

    "12k per year as a PAYE worker 16 hrs per week (very little tax on that), 6k social welfare per annum and about 11k per annum as a take away delivery driver 2 nights a week. Things are tight but im time rich which is the most important thing for me."

    Yeah don't work in the recruiting sector anymore. Your point?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭X111111111111


    MarkY91 wrote: »
    I'd be interested in hearing about some of the people you interviewed. Might make an interesting thread..

    All sorts to be honest. Young, old, Irish, non Irish, men, women etc.. but many where sent to us by social welfare and had no interest in working.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,315 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    My thought on the matter is; you can only afford one or two kids if you're working in an urban area & on good money, due to housing costs, etc. Also, childcare is very expensive in this county.

    If you are not working, and are paying a pittance to rent the house you live in, you don't need to worry about such things as childcare, as you're either at home all the time, or you don't care where your kids go during the day.
    Fathers being around (let alone working ones) becoming increasingly rarer.
    Also the mothers will be able to claim less.
    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.
    Lots of minimum wage jobs out there, not worth some people's time to take one. Loss of to many benefits.
    If you're on min wage, you'll probably end up the same or less than the dole after you pay rent for your house.
    If there is anything wrong with the kids, moving from medical card to private insurance will also give you reason to stay unemployed.
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    'No working adult' can mean many things.
    I agree that the word play can be taken wrongly, but in the article, it states...
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-nine-children-brought-up-in-home-with-no-working-adult-38828357.html
    The designation "jobless household" applies to a home where no one is in employment
    ...that is clearer language.
    Anyone availing of welfare is more than likely eligible and in need of it.
    Anyone claiming welfare will often be living on the breadline, and unable to work for a month before they get paid. And if receiving rent assistance like HAP, not have the finance to pay the two months rent.
    In most cases one adult would be free to work while the other minds the children so the childcare is a red herring I think.
    The designation "jobless household" applies to a home where no one is in employment
    Not really a red herring when it means that no one is working.
    You cannot quit your job and sign on welfare. They won't take you.
    If you want to get sacked, there are several fun ways to go about it.

    =-=

    If you wish to increase the amount of kids that are in working homes, bring in free childcare for people who work 37 hours a week, or more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    aaakev wrote: »
    They will take you after 8 weeks. If you lie you will get it straight away

    What do people say exactly? That the job was putting them under emotional stress? Or which


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,553 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What do people say exactly? That the job was putting them under emotional stress? Or which


    Much easier than that, turn up drunk three afternoons in a row after boozy lunches and even the public service will fire you and no need to wait 8 weeks. I shouldn’t be surprised at the continued fake naivety of some posters on here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

    That’s for a single person. It’s more depending on family circumstances.


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