One in nine children brought up in home with no working adult

Alrigghtythen

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-nine-children-brought-up-in-home-with-no-working-adult-38828357.html

That's a shocking figure. Why is there so many jobless households? Is it because the benefits are too high to give up for a job or because of a demotivated workforce?

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ireland-s-economy/
Ireland’s economy is outperforming most other Eurozone countries with almost full employment and rising real wages.

mickdw

I'd have thought it was higher tbh.
The welfare is far too good if you know how to work the system which all these non working households clearly do.
I'd be in favour of a universal payment to everyone that tg was quickly taken back in tax on the first portion of earned income.
The advantage would be that it would always pay to work. So you get your payment then if you work 5 hours or 50 hours per week, you will be gaining instead of the current situation where people cannot leave welfare unless they get a job paying 60k.

tdf7187

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ireland-s-economy/
Ireland’s economy is outperforming most other Eurozone countries with almost full employment and rising real wages.

I doubt it.

X111111111111

Some people are just unemployable. I've interviewed plenty of them and I wouldn't give them a job in a fit.

tdf7187

mickdw wrote: »

. So you get your payment then if you work 5 hours or 50 hours per week, you will be gaining instead of the current situation where people cannot leave welfare unless they get a job paying 60k.

Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

Eric Cartman

theres a good lifestyle to be made bieng a stay at home lone parent. those types have more kids than working families so upset the average. Fathers being around (let alone working ones) becoming increasingly rarer.

Plumbthedepths

Lots of minimum wage jobs out there, not worth some people's time to take one. Loss of to many benefits.

cruizer101

tdf7187 wrote: »

Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

Add on hap and other benefits and its a fair bit more, the 60k comment probably a bit exaggerated but for many there is little incentive to go into low paid work.

mickdw

tdf7187 wrote: »

Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

And you could set up tax system to claw it all back in first 20k earnings so zero cost for most employed people.
The advantage is no welfare trap. The more you work, the more cash you have regardless of circumstances.

Ha Long Bay

X111111111111 wrote: »

Some people are just unemployable. I've interviewed plenty of them and I wouldn't give them a job in a fit.

Your situation seems to have improved in the last month from working 16 hours a week to interviewing people.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111905889&postcount=197

"12k per year as a PAYE worker 16 hrs per week (very little tax on that), 6k social welfare per annum and about 11k per annum as a take away delivery driver 2 nights a week. Things are tight but im time rich which is the most important thing for me."

Ginger83

X111111111111 wrote: »

Some people are just unemployable. I've interviewed plenty of them and I wouldn't give them a job in a fit.

In what way

Shelflife

Would it be skewed by the fact that the jobless couple may have more children than the couple with a job ?

If you take 100 couples who have on average 1.5 children you get 150 children.

If you take the unemployment rate is 5% so in theory 5 of those couples are unemployed.

But if those couples had 5 children each that gives you 25 children.

So in this example 17% of children are brought up in a home with no working adult.

...

Or we could look at:

The costs of childcare
Or
Families having to move away from their support network (grandparents/aunt's/uncles) etc as it's too expensive to rent in their home town.
Or
Why some families could be over 300pw better off if the parents separated.

It's not always lazy people :rolleyes:

Kermit.de.frog

X111111111111 wrote: »

Some people are just unemployable. I've interviewed plenty of them and I wouldn't give them a job in a fit.

john4321 wrote: »

Your situation seems to have improved in the last month from working 16 hours a week to interviewing people.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111905889&postcount=197

"12k per year as a PAYE worker 16 hrs per week (very little tax on that), 6k social welfare per annum and about 11k per annum as a take away delivery driver 2 nights a week. Things are tight but im time rich which is the most important thing for me."

Someone call the police!!! There has been a murder on Boards.ie :eek:

MichaelKnee

I've worked my whole life.

Plumbthedepths

john4321 wrote: »

Your situation seems to have improved in the last month from working 16 hours a week to interviewing people.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111905889&postcount=197

"12k per year as a PAYE worker 16 hrs per week (very little tax on that), 6k social welfare per annum and about 11k per annum as a take away delivery driver 2 nights a week. Things are tight but im time rich which is the most important thing for me."

Lots of Walter Mitty types on Boards.

Pawwed Rig

tdf7187 wrote: »

Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

Noone with kids on a full means tested payment is earning only €202 per week. Your post is a bit disingenuous.

Feisar

tdf7187 wrote: »

Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

The fabled Maggie Cash for example would need a job paying 85k to come home with the same as she gets sitting on the doll. She’d need more to break even as she’d need to pay for child care.

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

...

Or we could look at:

The costs of childcare
Or
Families having to move away from their support network (grandparents/aunt's/uncles) etc as it's too expensive to rent in their home town.
Or
Why some families could be over 300pw better off if the parents separated.

It's not always lazy people :rolleyes:

We could also consider there may be instances where a parent is a carer - for an adult partner or a child. They would technically be 'jobless' while saving the State thousands.

'No working adult' can mean many things.

MarkY91

X111111111111 wrote: »

Some people are just unemployable. I've interviewed plenty of them and I wouldn't give them a job in a fit.

I'd be interested in hearing about some of the people you interviewed. Might make an interesting thread..

malinheader

tdf7187 wrote: »

Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

You forgot to mention the add on benefits.

4068ac1elhodqr

What some folks above describe as solutions is effectively UBI (Universal Basic Income), or 'the freedome dividend' as it's proposed in the USA.

I.e. You get 250 or so per week for nothing. If you work an additional 2hr or even 80hr per week, you still keep the 250 regardless (and don't have to fill out any forms or push prams onto buses for welfare interviews) for these varied 'nixers/gigs'. Ideally suited to the emerging 'zero-hours contract gig-economy', and in a coming era whereby most of the unskilled (and even highly skilled), will be outclassed by the ai-bots (aka 4th industrial reveloution).

Guy:Incognito

Ive met loads of unemployable people. Unfortunately most of them were coworkers.

FAMLEE

If a person with a dependent (child) on the dole can claim between 250-300 a week & they have no qualifications.. why would they work 40hours/week minimum wage for -350? Factor in, travelling costs etc. it makes no sense.

James Brown

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-nine-children-brought-up-in-home-with-no-working-adult-38828357.html

That's a shocking figure. Why is there so many jobless households? Is it because the benefits are too high to give up for a job or because of a demotivated workforce?

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ireland-s-economy/
Ireland’s economy is outperforming most other Eurozone countries with almost full employment and rising real wages.

No, deciding not to work won't get you any state aid unless you commit some kind of fraud and tell lies they believe, which usually require verification any way.
Anyone availing of welfare is more than likely eligible and in need of it.

Ginger83

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We could also consider there may be instances where a parent is a carer - for an adult partner or a child. They would technically be 'jobless' while saving the State thousands.

'No working adult' can mean many things.

My wife is my carer.

Icsics

Social welfare is too high, once all the add ons are included. Would be interesting to see what the % of traveler households are employed

Eric Cartman

Icsics wrote: »

Social welfare is too high, once all the add ons are included. Would be interesting to see what the % of traveler households are employed

I think we do have a stat on that, its single digit % iirc

edit : https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itseah/

12% of traveller men work, 10% of traveller women....

Alrigghtythen

In most cases one adult would be free to work while the other minds the children so the childcare is a red herring I think.

James Brown

MichaelKnee wrote: »

I was working until last year until I quit. To be honest, I should have done it sooner.

What are you doing for income if I might ask? You can't quit and claim welfare.

FAMLEE

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think we do have a stat on that, its single digit % iirc

edit : https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itseah/

12% of traveller men work, 10% of traveller women....

But 100% of traveller men have a big ball of 50e notes in their pocket at all times?

Eric Cartman

Matt Barrett wrote: »

What are you doing for income if I might ask? You can't quit and claim welfare.

Youre better than this matt... 1 post...

2 fast

Deleted User wrote: »

...

Or we could look at:

The costs of childcare
Or
Families having to move away from their support network (grandparents/aunt's/uncles) etc as it's too expensive to rent in their home town.
Or
Why some families could be over 300pw better off if the parents separated.

It's not always lazy people :rolleyes:

This is very true, childcare is like a second mortgage and a lot of job pay so poorly. Easy to jump to conclusions

Hercule Poirot

I've interviewed people and offered them jobs only to have them explain that it wouldn't make financial sense to take the job. We're talking 40 hour weeks at 10/11e an hour but they turn it down because it's not worth their while. I wouldn't describe them as scroungers just people looking out for themselves - I did try to explain that the wage will increase over time but a lot of them only think in the short term. Hard to blame them in some cases.

And while the dole might be around 11k p/a when you factor in rent allowance, child allowance, etc, it's a higher figure again.

Obviously there are people who are content to abuse the system but for others, who may not have higher education, it just makes no financial sense to take minimum wage jobs.

Lily_Aldrin7

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

In most cases one adult would be free to work while the other minds the children so the childcare is a red herring I think.

I was about to say that- my partner stays at home because we have 2 kids- it’s 250 per child per week (50 a day) to go to the childminder’s. He didn’t even make that much at work. There are families with more than 2 kids obviously. The only thing is he doesn’t get any social because as far as we know, you need to be looking for a job in order to get benefits ?

aaakev

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Anyone availing of welfare is more than likely eligible and in need of it.

Not sure if your taking the piss with that but if your not you are very naive....

dartboardio

Yep, benefits are way too high. As in, the allowances - benefits are fair in most cases, Jobseekers BENEFIT from earning stamps, illness BENEFIT from paying your taxes then getting unfortunately sick.


Jobseekers allowance shouldn't be as high as it is, as you get people that abuse it, many of them too, people sitting on it for 15 years straight. Able bodied, lazy people.

1 in 9 is a shocking figure. That would almost mean 1 in 9 are in poverty

I don't mean 'stay at home mums/dads' that it benefits for one parent to stay home while the other is out being the breadwinner,

I mean families that never intend to work or go out working whatsoever, expecting the government to fund them for their entire life


Obviously it makes sense for some families to have a parent home but not for others never intending to work.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Youre better than this matt... 1 post...

Couldn't help it I was curious where it was going

aaakev wrote: »

Not sure if your taking the piss with that but if your not you are very naive....

You cannot quit your job and sign on welfare. They won't take you. If it was even half as advertised on Boards we'd all give it a go.

aaakev

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Couldn't help it I was curious where it was going



You cannot quit your job and sign on welfare. They won't take you.

They will take you after 8 weeks. If you lie you will get it straight away

jinish

Its a joke. The Govt should tighten the criteria for welfare and use the saved money to support working parents by providing some kind of subsidised childcare facilities. Its very very very very hard on working parents to manage
1. work
2. child care
3. save few penny for a mortgage

SCOOP 64

If a family is on minimum wage ,say 39hr week, they can claim Working Family Payment, could be a extra €140 a week for a family with 2 kids and still keep benefits, medical card etc..

maxwell smart

We seem to have reached peak employment, the only people who are now (seriously) looking for a new job are people looking to change.

Where I work we had a role advertised for 3 weeks. Package was 40k basic, bonus of 12k+, car, healthcare etc.

We got 7 applicants, 5 of which were from a combination of India, the Gulf and the Ukraine.

And it was a great role.

I think if you have 2 kids you need to gross 44k to get the same value as being on welfare. Something very wrong there.

boombang

Great that Leo Varadkar has stepped in to protect those that get up early, oh wait...

jinish

maxwell smart wrote: »

We seem to have reached peak employment, the only people who are now (seriously) looking for a new job are people looking to change.

Where I work we had a role advertised for 3 weeks. Package was 40k basic, bonus of 12k+, car, healthcare etc.

We got 7 applicants, 5 of which were from a combination of India, the Gulf and the Ukraine.

And it was a great role.

I think if you have 2 kids you need to gross 44k to get the same value as being on welfare. Something very wrong there.

something very wrong indeed!

James Brown

aaakev wrote: »

They will take you after 8 weeks. If you lie you will get it straight away

Yes, they do after a review. You can't quit and walk in, sign on.
You can do many a thing you shouldn't if you lie. That said you need verify the lies.

X111111111111

john4321 wrote: »

Your situation seems to have improved in the last month from working 16 hours a week to interviewing people.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111905889&postcount=197

"12k per year as a PAYE worker 16 hrs per week (very little tax on that), 6k social welfare per annum and about 11k per annum as a take away delivery driver 2 nights a week. Things are tight but im time rich which is the most important thing for me."

Yeah don't work in the recruiting sector anymore. Your point?

X111111111111

MarkY91 wrote: »

I'd be interested in hearing about some of the people you interviewed. Might make an interesting thread..

All sorts to be honest. Young, old, Irish, non Irish, men, women etc.. but many where sent to us by social welfare and had no interest in working.

the_syco

My thought on the matter is; you can only afford one or two kids if you're working in an urban area & on good money, due to housing costs, etc. Also, childcare is very expensive in this county.

If you are not working, and are paying a pittance to rent the house you live in, you don't need to worry about such things as childcare, as you're either at home all the time, or you don't care where your kids go during the day.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Fathers being around (let alone working ones) becoming increasingly rarer.

Also the mothers will be able to claim less.

tdf7187 wrote: »

Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Lots of minimum wage jobs out there, not worth some people's time to take one. Loss of to many benefits.

If you're on min wage, you'll probably end up the same or less than the dole after you pay rent for your house.
If there is anything wrong with the kids, moving from medical card to private insurance will also give you reason to stay unemployed.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

'No working adult' can mean many things.

I agree that the word play can be taken wrongly, but in the article, it states...
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-nine-children-brought-up-in-home-with-no-working-adult-38828357.html

The designation "jobless household" applies to a home where no one is in employment

...that is clearer language.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Anyone availing of welfare is more than likely eligible and in need of it.

Anyone claiming welfare will often be living on the breadline, and unable to work for a month before they get paid. And if receiving rent assistance like HAP, not have the finance to pay the two months rent.

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

In most cases one adult would be free to work while the other minds the children so the childcare is a red herring I think.

The designation "jobless household" applies to a home where no one is in employment

Not really a red herring when it means that no one is working.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You cannot quit your job and sign on welfare. They won't take you.

If you want to get sacked, there are several fun ways to go about it.

=-=

If you wish to increase the amount of kids that are in working homes, bring in free childcare for people who work 37 hours a week, or more.

dartboardio

aaakev wrote: »

They will take you after 8 weeks. If you lie you will get it straight away

What do people say exactly? That the job was putting them under emotional stress? Or which

blanch152

dartboardio wrote: »

What do people say exactly? That the job was putting them under emotional stress? Or which

Much easier than that, turn up drunk three afternoons in a row after boozy lunches and even the public service will fire you and no need to wait 8 weeks. I shouldn’t be surprised at the continued fake naivety of some posters on here.

splinter65

tdf7187 wrote: »

Dole payments are 202 a week. This is 11k or so a year.

That’s for a single person. It’s more depending on family circumstances.