Work WhatsApp Group

arrianalexander

Hi

Recently Work has started using Whatsapp to forward work related information through WhatsApp groups

Initially it was a small group set up , saying they needed someone to cover a shift and who would be available

But over time everyone has been added to this group and more information is been passed onto us through this group and other smaller whatsapp groups, depending on your role.

Im conscience of having a work / life balance and leaving work at work as much as is possible

I've muted all these groups so I don't receive any notifications rather been the one to leave a group.

Are other companies doing this ? (Bear in mind these are personal phones )

I don't want to make a.big deal at work over it but at same time I'm conscience of where would I stand if I missed information in the group and was questioned about not knowing about xyz

Thanks in advance

Fann Linn

Ask for a workphone. Nice and polite like. I've only just switched mine on today since knocking it off on the 23rd.
Its great to be able to enjoy time off. I see it as 'if they're not prepared to pay me to look at while I'm off, why have it on.'

KildareP

Don’t have an issue in my place as it has been determined as a GDPR minefield and is thus not to be used for work purposes.

However an easy way to handle it is that you have it on mute at all times because you find it very noisy with lots of different groups. Likely not a lie either, I’m fed up with being added to every group under the sun posting absolute rubbish or questionable clips.

You could add in that you are especially worried about it being a distraction during work hours and so you don’t check it at all in work which is why you might have missed xyz.

We have one but they pay for our phones, though I also keep it muted like I do with all groups.
Leave the group and if they question it then tell them you only have a personal phone. If they want you to use it then they can buy you one and get you a contract.

antix80

Don't bother going the "ask for a work phone" route unless you want a work phone.
Pick up a sim and dig out an old phone. Install WhatsApp on it and leave it at work.
Shift swaps etc.. Well, you'll miss out, but that's the price to pay for the work-life balance you're seeking

theteal

Yeah we use WhatsApp, bloody thing is on the go nonstop. It's a dual sim work phone and I have it set up for two profiles so I've actually got two separate WhatsApp instances. Work one gets muted out of hours.

Heres Johnny

It's just become an acceptable medium of communication these days but if you don't want to be in it you don't have to be with a personal phone you choose what to do.
We have one in work for our guys out on site that we never see and they don't have a work email. Christmas drinks were organised on it and the one guy (with a work phone) that refuses to be on it missed out on them and was fuming.
So there's the balance, you will miss some stuff

mr_edge_to_you

I'd ask for a work phone. I have a work phone and a personal phone.

I've removed myself from WhatsApp groups where I was added under my personal number. It's an important boundary for me.

I think you can set WhatsApp to not allow people to add you to groups automatically now too.

AndrewJRenko

Ask the boss for confirmation of how the WhatsApp group complies with GDPR.

Atlantic Dawn

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Ask the boss for confirmation of how the WhatsApp group complies with GDPR.

Especially seeing as the owners of it have a rather questionable history on personal data to put it mildly.

arrianalexander

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I think you can set WhatsApp to not allow people to add you to groups automatically now too.

I didn't realize that until now , I have now changed this in.my WhatsApp , thanks

Mrs OBumble

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Ask the boss for confirmation of how the WhatsApp group complies with GDPR.

And that it's acceptable for you to be checking your personal phone during working hours.

Strumms

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I'd ask for a work phone. I have a work phone and a personal phone.

I've removed myself from WhatsApp groups where I was added under my personal number. It's an important boundary for me.

100 % correct. Just ‘another’ example whereby employers are seeking another ‘in’ into your personal and family space.

If you get asked... “well you didn’t see my request for overtime on Saturday on the WhatsApp group ?”.. answer should be.. “no, to be honest if you’d like to see if I can do OT just give me a ring or txt... I don’t involve myself in work groups on what are meant to be social apps and especially outside of working hours, so please, a text in future, thanks.”

It will start with the OT requests then at 7pm having finished at 5...”guys does any know the password to abc database?”.. “ guys who again is taking a half day tomorrow?”

A ‘team’ WhatsApp, then a ‘team’ Twitter.... all of a sudden you turn on your your iPad and you are scrolling through work **** at 8.30pm... “sorry guys, anybody fancy an early start tomorrow?”...

Know the boundary, if your employer doesn’t don’t blur the line for them.

Be right back

I have our work group muted and usually don't reply to the group. Our managers usually send messages out of hours which is very annoying.

LeBash

I dont see that as a big deal. You'll benefit from it some day when you want to skip a shift. If everyone had the attitude you have, then maybe you'll end up working a shift that you really could have done with off.

It's not like you need to be glued to it, check it when your checking other messages. Just make it clear, you dont want jokes, pics etc on it because it can get out of hand and people will miss information.

Weve got 2 groups. One for everyone to mess about on (small company), where funny pics get shared around, jokes or videos, and 1 where they are told to keep everything they need to say in 1 message for work purposes only. I dont participate in the messing about one myself, I just find it distracting.

Strumms

LeBash wrote: »

I dont see that as a big deal. You'll benefit from it some day when you want to skip a shift. If everyone had the attitude you have, then maybe you'll end up working a shift that you really could have done with off.

It's not like you need to be glued to it.

Glued to it no, but you are enabling your employer to hold you ‘captive audience’ outside of your working hours and maintain a regular line of communication between management and employee(s).... next at a meeting.. “well you’ll have all seen the WhatsApp messages about the issues last night and...” ... “no, I’ll just stop you there.. I was for dinner with the other half and after I met friends.. so please start from the beginning, what happened I wasn’t here, nor was I checking the work WhatsApp”..

As for benefiting...I want to skip a shift it’s a call... “ hey boss got last minute tix to a game any chance of tomorrow half day ?” ... that’s not asking for a ‘favor’ that’s requesting to take a half day from your holiday allowance... last minute it might be but unless a valid reason to deny if given... ie. Someone already off, training course booked... approved !

_Brian

Yea WhatsApp is a gdpr problem, all personal numbers available to everyone and data shared may not need to be seen by everyone in the group.

Most companies have Office365 accounts and should be using kaizala

Kaizala meets GDPR, ISO 27001, SOC1, HIPAA compliance requirements.

Using Facebook in the business is just wrong..

tedpan

I stopped using Whatsapp for this reason. I feel so much better without that crap..

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

As for benefiting...I want to skip a shift it’s a call... “ hey boss got last minute tix to a game any chance of tomorrow half day ?” ... that’s not asking for a ‘favor’ that’s requesting to take a half day from your holiday allowance... last minute it might be but unless a valid reason to deny if given... ie. Someone already off, training course booked... approved !

Actually it is asking for a favour as annual leave times are at the discretion of your employer and they are not required to give you leave whenever you want, particularly at short notice. They do not need a valid reason to deny a request like that.

While I have no experience to work WhatsApp groups, I certainly can see the benefit of colleagues being able to swop shifts using this method rather than doing what Strumms advocates above.

_Brian

OP can just leave the group and not rejoin.

If it’s a personal phone they can’t insist you use it for work purposes.

Jim2007

arrianalexander wrote: »

Recently Work has started using Whatsapp to forward work related information through WhatsApp groups

Has the company officially started to use it, or has it evolved among the staff as a thing?

arrianalexander wrote: »

I've muted all these groups so I don't receive any notifications rather been the one to leave a group.

This is not the way to go, it is not a good idea do this to your colleagues, pretending to get their messages while ignoring them will not go down well. Either leave the group or tell them that you only check it at certain times.

Jim2007

Jim2007 wrote: »

Has the company officially started to use it, or has it evolved among the staff as a thing?



This is not the way to go, it is not a good idea do this to your colleagues, pretending to get their messages while ignoring them will not go down well. Either leave the group or tell them that you only check it at certain times.

It’s their personal phone. Whatever they like is fair.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Actually it is asking for a favour as annual leave times are at the discretion of your employer and they are not required to give you leave whenever you want, particularly at short notice. They do not need a valid reason to deny a request like that.

While I have no experience to work WhatsApp groups, I certainly can see the benefit of colleagues being able to swop shifts using this method rather than doing what Strumms advocates above.

It’s not a favor, you are requesting a days annual leave, that’s your entitlement, as per your contract and your contract is a legal document ... unless a valid reason is given for denial, a valid and ‘specific’ business reason, the company and manager are out of line, pure and simple... ‘a favor’... right, annual leave isn’t a favor it’s an entitlement and employers should be very careful around when and what reasons they give for denial... two people already off...sure, a mandatory training course happening, a one off... sure... say an airline around Christmas week, needing all hands to the pump... sure.... but to deny on a whim, without reason etc is grossly unsat, if any crowd starts that with me there are repercussions......

Boss: “Hey Strumms, we need you for an extra shift on Saturday, we are down to the bones here”.

Strumms : “well I’d like to help but I can’t”

Boss : “how come ?, we really need...”

Strumms : “I have plans that cannot be amended at this stage”

They make the relationship difficult for you, you do the same for them, nicely of course and within the boundaries of you contract and therefore legislation.

AndrewJRenko

NoDrama wrote: »

Most companies have Office365 accounts and should be using kaizala

Kaizala meets GDPR, ISO 27001, SOC1, HIPAA compliance requirements.

Using Facebook in the business is just wrong..

Good to know, hadn't heard of that one before.


Do you know if it integrates to on-prem versions of MS Office for Active Directory synch?

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

It’s not a favor, you are requesting a days annual leave, that’s your entitlement, as per your contract and your contract is a legal document ... unless a valid reason is given for denial, a valid and ‘specific’ business reason, the company and manager are out of line, pure and simple... ‘a favor’... right, annual leave isn’t a favor it’s an entitlement and employers should be very careful around when and what reasons they give for denial... two people already off...sure, a mandatory training course happening, a one off... sure... say an airline around Christmas week, needing all hands to the pump... sure.... but to deny on a whim, without reason etc is grossly unsat, if any crowd starts that with me there are repercussions......

Boss: “Hey Strumms, we need you for an extra shift on Saturday, we are down to the bones here”.

Strumms : “well I’d like to help but I can’t”

Boss : “how come ?, we really need...”

Strumms : “I have plans that cannot be amended at this stage”

They make the relationship difficult for you, you do the same for them, nicely of course and within the boundaries of you contract and therefore legislation.

There you go making up your own rules again.

Accrued annual leave is a statutory entitlement, when you take it most certainly is not, despite what you may think or want to believe. If you want AL tomorrow afternoon, then your employer is under no obligation to either give you it, nor to give you a valid reason as to why it is being refused. When AL is taken is at the discretion of your employer. That is why I would have thought the WhatsApp group may be useful, so that if you need time off on a particular day, a colleague can cover your shift.


Before this turns into 3 pages of back’n forth rubbish, please read this.


https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

There you go making up your own rules again.

Accrued annual leave is a statutory entitlement, when you take it most certainly is not, despite what you may think or want to believe. If you want AL tomorrow afternoon, then your employer is under no obligation to either give you it, nor to give you a valid reason as to why it is being refused. When AL is taken is at the discretion of your employer. That is why I would have thought the WhatsApp group may be useful, so that if you need time off on a particular day, a colleague can cover your shift.


Before this turns into 3 pages of back’n forth rubbish, please read this.


https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html

You shouldn't be obliged to expose your personal phone number to a large bunch of colleagues to request annual leave.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You shouldn't be obliged to expose your personal phone number to a large bunch of colleagues to request annual leave.

No you shouldn’t, the op should leave the group. Just saying though, it can have its uses.

lfen

Think you are overthinking things OP. If you don't want to be in the group, just leave it. If you feel uncomfortable doing that, tell them you deleted WhatsApp because it was taking up too much space on your phone. Personally though, I'd just be honest.

BoldReason

Personally I would just leave the group and if a reason is required I would simply say that I only have a personal phone and have no available work number compatible for WhatsApp and I can be reached via email for any matters.

This is hardly unreasonable. If work expects you to have a requirement to answer WhatsApp messages they should provide you with a means to do so.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

There you go making up your own rules again.

Accrued annual leave is a statutory entitlement, when you take it most certainly is not, despite what you may think or want to believe. If you want AL tomorrow afternoon, then your employer is under no obligation to either give you it, nor to give you a valid reason as to why it is being refused. When AL is taken is at the discretion of your employer. That is why I would have thought the WhatsApp group may be useful, so that if you need time off on a particular day, a colleague can cover your shift.


Before this turns into 3 pages of back’n forth rubbish, please read this.


https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html

No rules are being made up, it’s clear in black and white...

If an employer does not give you a reason why they are denying, when you deny an overtime request...deny them why too... “I have something on” will suffice... could be a dental appointment or sitting with the lads having a pint.. fûck em, if they are going to be that hard assed and inflexible, that works two ways.

dhaughton99

NoDrama wrote: »

Most companies have Office365 accounts and should be using kaizala

Kaizala meets GDPR, ISO 27001, SOC1, HIPAA compliance requirements.

Using Facebook in the business is just wrong..

The crappy name and the fact that its a Microsoft product, which is jumping on a bandwagon, immediately turns me off.

Strumms

dhaughton99 wrote: »

The crappy name and the fact that its a Microsoft product, which is jumping on a bandwagon, immediately turns me off.

Totally, last job I had a work mobile but at 6.30pm before I’ve got my coat on that gets switched off, so does mind to work issues. So they can have all the apps they want.

Mrs OBumble

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You shouldn't be obliged to expose your personal phone number to a large bunch of colleagues to request annual leave.

No.

But if you want to request annual leave at short notice, then in many workplaces the manager's default answer will, rightly, be "Nope, roster's already done" - unless you have arranged a replacement for yourself.

Arranging that replacement requires that you have some way to contact your colleagues. It's not unreasonable for colleagues who have chosen to be available for shift-swaps to share their contact details with each other. WhatsApp and it's ilk take a lot of pain out of such group communications.

I'd actually say that this is a case where shift-swap requests should be done on a group that's not owned or administered by the company - new hires are told about it, have the option to join if they want, but it's not used for official business.

'Cos when the company owns the group, the company can use it for other things, so the opt-in nature goes away.

Strumms

dhaughton99 wrote: »

The crappy name and the fact that its a Microsoft product, which is jumping on a bandwagon, immediately turns me off.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No.

But if you want to request annual leave at short notice, then in many workplaces the manager's default answer will, rightly, be "Nope, roster's already done" - unless you have arranged a replacement for yourself..

How can you justify such a response, such as a manager turning down a request for annual leave based on the roster having been done ? If there are no other people off the leave should be granted. If I or whoever need to use one of my annual leave entitlements at short notice, which can happen for many reasons, unless there is something extraordinary happening in the business or somebody is already off it should be granted... them :“ohhh sorry I just can’t approve a holiday like that I’ll need to alter the task roster” ... Me : “that’s right, that’s because you are the manager and that’s your job”

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

No rules are being made up, it’s clear in black and white...

If an employer does not give you a reason why they are denying, when you deny an overtime request...deny them why too... “I have something on” will suffice... could be a dental appointment or sitting with the lads having a pint.. fûck em, if they are going to be that hard assed and inflexible, that works two ways.

God help me.

Where is it stated in black and white? I’ve just provided you with a link that states that AL dates are at the discretion of the employer.

An employee has never been obligated to give a reason why they won’t do overtime.

Please read the CA link before posting anymore rubbish.

AndrewJRenko

dhaughton99 wrote: »

The crappy name and the fact that its a Microsoft product, which is jumping on a bandwagon, immediately turns me off.

If you're a Microsoft house, already using MS Office, it is far more likely to be acceptable than WhatsApp or any 3rd party solution.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

God help me.

Where is it stated in black and white? I’ve just provided you with a link that states that AL dates are at the discretion of the employer.

An employee has never been obligated to give a reason why they won’t do overtime.

Please read the CA link before posting anymore rubbish.

I think god might have his work cut out with this type attitude in fairness.

AL.. discretion of employer sure, but if there is no reason given for denying that is especially unsat, if I want April 23-29 off inclusive and the request is denied, I’d expect as a professional courtesy to be informed as to why... a reply of just ‘denied’ is not going to be satisfactory. If I go home tell the other half “ denied, no clue as to why”... not good enough, not transparent, professional or fair... Above all being given a reason is a transparent way of ensuring fairness, which isn’t always a given in every job I can assure you.

Again, I was in a situation where I applied for a week off, it came back ‘denied, already some other employee has it booked’...I looked on the online spreadsheet to see who and the dates were showing free still, I naturally presumed that it just hadn’t been updated yet so said nada, about 10 days later checking again... nothing... so back to the boss to query.. “ohhh we are keeping the week free for Sean and his family, he is trying to get away but unsure if he can get the money together “

Me...: “ ok in August do I get to block book two weeks leave that I may or may not take, only to give them up last minute, so nobody else can use them, sorry, I’m not dealing with a colleague who is booking leave, but not booking leave, not knowing if they want a holiday, not knowing if they WILL go on a holiday”...

Eventually I got the time but before it was sorted it cost about 80 odd euros as the flights had gone up... just because some selfish fûckwit who didn’t know if he was going, wasn’t going, could go or couldn’t go...

Mrs OBumble

Strumms wrote: »

How can you justify such a response, such as a manager turning down a request for annual leave based on the roster having been done ? If there are no other people off the leave should be granted.

Strumms, I don't think you understand how the sort of workplace where people swap shifts operate. It's got nothing to do with "if no one else is off" - that sort of rule only applies in small-ish workplaces where everyone works at the same time.

Instead, in rostered workplaces, if you ask for this Sunday off at short notice, then someone else - who has already seen the roster and currently believes that they don't have to work on Sunday - has to work instead.

If you're sick or bereaved or your kid is in hospital - than as a manager, sure it's my responsibility to find someone to cover the shift. And if I can't convince any of the staff to do it, I'll likely end up having to work it myself (for no extra pay, btw, 'cos I'm on salary).

But if you want the day off because your mate has invited you to go fishing, or your team got drawn to play a match or whatever social reason you have ... nope, not my problem. You should have made the request before I did the roster. The only possibility is if you can find a colleague who's willing to swap, and they have suitable skills and their hourly rate won't kill my labour budget, then I'll say yes.

Strumms

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Strumms, I don't think you understand how the sort of workplace where people swap shifts operate. It's got nothing to do with "if no one else is off" - that sort of rule only applies in small-ish workplaces where everyone works at the same time.

Instead, in rostered workplaces, if you ask for this Sunday off at short notice, then someone else - who has already seen the roster and currently believes that they don't have to work on Sunday - has to work instead.

If you're sick or bereaved or your kid is in hospital - than as a manager, sure it's my responsibility to find someone to cover the shift. And if I can't convince any of the staff to do it, I'll likely end up having to work it myself (for no extra pay, btw, 'cos I'm on salary).

But if you want the day off because your mate has invited you to go fishing, or your team got drawn to play a match or whatever social reason you have ... nope, not my problem. You should have made the request before I did the roster. The only possibility is if you can find a colleague who's willing to swap, and they have suitable skills and their hourly rate won't kill my labour budget, then I'll say yes.

So basically there is zero cover built into the shifts... am I right ? As in tonight’s shift has 5 employees, one goes sick, you need someone in on OT to get the job done.... if I get holidays granted, you NEED a replacement from some other shift...?

I’ve worked in smallish teams but in situations where we could always loose an employee and while it’s a ball ache, the job gets done... a shift pattern whereby someone going awol through sick or a holiday or whatever means you automatically need cover just seems like it’s staffed too thinly...

mickdoocey

I was added to my employers whatsapp group , found it really annoying so I left group and when asked why I had left I told them I damaged my phone and was getting a new one soon
insurance was covering it but would take time. kept fobbing them off and now it is not mentioned.
I really dislike this kind of thing, its invasive.

PonchoMcHoncho

They set up one in work for us a while back and while useful for the team initially for what we were working on it quickly became an out of hours information feed for management where they asked for updates at all hours and on weekends and work life balance and the ability to switch off went out the window. Not long after weekend work and expected overtime started creeping in as people's personal time started to be seen as less personal. Its a slippery slope.

dreamers75

I have found my employees want to use whatsapp, I am not a fan but it does the job.

They kinda convinced me to use it as the Iphone Group message sucks absolute balls.

Each to their own I suppose, notices are still posted to the notice board and emailed to them should they be arsed reading emails.

Seems a lot of users here dont want to be informed of anything and choose to opt out, how would you like to be informed? Iphone group message sucks absolute balls.

Strumms

dreamers75 wrote: »

Seems a lot of users here dont want to be informed of anything and choose to opt out, how would you like to be informed? Iphone group message sucks absolute balls.

You are confusing users who ‘don’t want to be informed’ with users who want this info through ‘proper company channels’ such as work email, work phone etc..

Esse85

Can you leave the group and then say you haven't a smart phone so can't receive WhatsApp.

Or you've no credit and no WiFi so you couldn't receive the messages due to no data.

Strumms

Could leave, block and just say you have an issue with the app... that might be not workable however if you have work friends personal number on WhatsApp who might blab..

GarIT

I'm in a few groups, have them all muted, notifications still show up, just silently rather than no notifications at all. I sometimes read them out of work, sometimes don't bother, never reply. I've seen panicked questions asking how to fix something that's affecting hundreds of customers, known it was a simple fix that probably only I know because it is something I was working on and scrolled past not giving a **** because I'm not on the clock.

I don't work outside work, but I'll laugh at the memes and read the articles related to whatever we were talking about during the day.

Strumms

One issue could also be...far as I know with WhatsApp...if you disable the ‘read receipt’ it only disables for one to one conversations and not group chats....

So you’d have some fûckwit boss saying... “Jesus, Gary read that message Gerry sent about not having the passwords for abc programme, you’d think he’d have replied, jeeez.... then bosss “Gary, if you are reading this (he knows you are) could you help Gerry here for a sec please”...

Starts as a one off, then becomes a norm, where a couple of times a week you are being hit up at home for an opinion, to troubleshoot xyz etc.. you are always contactable...so always ON... but not getting paid to be and not wanting to be...

That’s not satisfactory. If I’m at home and my phone is beeping, vibrating, ringing... whatever, unless it’s a friend, family member or something socially related I don’t want to know... work is for working hours, you want me to be on call ? You put it in the job description AND you pay me an on call rate... I’m not at your beck and call no matter if you are CEO... get of my phone screen and out of my personal life....thanks !

yerwanthere123

One of these groups was started for my work roster inside the last 12 months. I work in hospitality so you can imagine the kind of sh*t that's posted in it. Messages on my days off about rubbish being in the wrong bins, too many glasses being broken and a teapot going missing, with a threat of checking the CCTV unless someone came forward to declare where they think the missing teapot might be (!). It's intrusive, invasive and I've actually noticed my anxiety levels have increased since the group was started. Have the group muted now but it's still not enough knowing it's there on my phone. Obviously want to leave it but afraid of any potential consequences, work with a manager who'd have no problem trimming hours in response to any such moves.

Strumms

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

One of these groups was started for my work roster inside the last 12 months. I work in hospitality so you can imagine the kind of sh*t that's posted in it. Messages on my days off about rubbish being in the wrong bins, too many glasses being broken and a teapot going missing, with a threat of checking the CCTV unless someone came forward to declare where they think the missing teapot might be (!). It's intrusive, invasive and I've actually noticed my anxiety levels have increased since the group was started. Have the group muted now but it's still not enough knowing it's there on my phone. Obviously want to leave it but afraid of any potential consequences, work with a manager who'd have no problem trimming hours in response to any such moves.

This ^^^

Precisely why you should never entertain being involved in work business / being contactable on your social media apps,. Work/life balance isn’t just about the hours you are at work it’s about the quality time away from it to focus on yourself, your family and loved ones, to relax, without work ‘distractions’ or ‘interruptions’ not giving the slightest fûck about missing teapots, missing laptops, who ate all the rich tea biscuits or whatever... you don’t care unless you are there and being paid to care...end of..