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Whiskey for the boys

  • 01-01-2020 8:20am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    Just a simple investment idea. Was hoping to get peoples' thoughts on it. I have two young sons (6 months & 3 years). My plan is to buy a bottle of midleton very rare on their birthday each year. Then when they are 30th I will hand over the collection. Should have appreciated in value quite a bit. And even if it doesn't they will have some very fine bottles of whiskey to drink or give as presents. Any thoughts?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,162 ✭✭✭✭ KKV


    The problem I see with this, is that, as with many collectibles, once people realise that they imcrease in value, they tend to be more collected, and as a result, lose value.


    For example, not the same thing, but i loved WWE wrestling growing up. Trying to get some of the early wrestling figures, still in their mint condition boxes is practically impossible. You'll pay a fortune. But people copped on. So now everyone that ever had an interest in WWE figures has a wrestling figure collection that's mint in their boxes. Hence there's a load more floating about and the value has plummeted.


    If people start to twig that buying old whiskey and re-selling it is profitable, many more people will do it and you'll just have loads of old whiskey that may not necessarily appreciate in value at all. (although that still leaves you with nice gifts, etc. nonetheless and presumably could still at least make its money back and break even if need be).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    KKV wrote: »
    The problem I see with this, is that, as with many collectibles, once people realise that they imcrease in value, they tend to be more collected, and as a result, lose value.


    For example, not the same thing, but i loved WWE wrestling growing up. Trying to get some of the early wrestling figures, still in their mint condition boxes is practically impossible. You'll pay a fortune. But people copped on. So now everyone that ever had an interest in WWE figures has a wrestling figure collection that's mint in their boxes. Hence there's a load more floating about and the value has plummeted.


    If people start to twig that buying old whiskey and re-selling it is profitable, many more people will do it and you'll just have loads of old whiskey that may not necessarily appreciate in value at all. (although that still leaves you with nice gifts, etc. nonetheless and presumably could still at least make its money back and break even if need be).

    yeah, from what I gather, whiskey really only goes up in value as it gets rarer so would have to be prepared for the long haul. Which I am. Looking at the prices for the last 30 years there is definitely appreciation. But even if there was enough to break even including costs i wouldn't be too disappointed. Just need to figure a way to store it safely...and securely, considering there will eventually be teenage boys in the house!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭ Scottie99


    Just a simple investment idea. Was hoping to get peoples' thoughts on it. I have two young sons (6 months & 3 years). My plan is to buy a bottle of midleton very rare on their birthday each year. Then when they are 30th I will hand over the collection. Should have appreciated in value quite a bit. And even if it doesn't they will have some very fine bottles of whiskey to drink or give as presents. Any thoughts?

    Or maybe purchase one top quality whiskey or whisky (18/30/50 year old) and hold it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,162 ✭✭✭✭ KKV


    Scottie99 wrote: »
    Or maybe purchase one top quality whiskey or whisky (18/30/50 year old) and hold it?

    Or to continue with my WWE figure line of thinking, one of the most difficult/expensive figures to get is a wrestler called Al Snow from many moons ago. Everyone was so caught up in 'collecting' all the mega superstars (rock, austin, hogan etc.) that nobody bought poor Al Snow, the mid-card wrestler that was never massively popular.

    As a result of nobody buying him back then when he was readily available, he's now in great demand as nobody has that figure.


    Could you perhaps buy a whiskey that's not very popular, and due to the very nature of it not being popular, if it discontinues or disappears off the face of the earth, as you'd be one of the very few people to have bothered buying it, it would be rarer and worth more?


    (or in the whiskey world is it just a lot safer to stick with the names that are well known and established? Even though you run the risk of others collecting the same thing?)

    (I appreciate the WWE line of thinking may not translate well, but I'm just trying to throw out some general comments about the issue of collecting a 'readily available' product, and i presume most collections, whether it's whiskey, barbie, stamps, or wrestlers, would have similar pitfalls).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    Scottie99 wrote: »
    Or maybe purchase one top quality whiskey or whisky (18/30/50 year old) and hold it?

    Could do that too. But to get an already aged top brand would be very expensive in one go. Might be putting all eggs in one basket?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    KKV wrote: »
    Or to continue with my WWE figure line of thinking, one of the most difficult/expensive figures to get is a wrestler called Al Snow from many moons ago. Everyone was so caught up in 'collecting' all the mega superstars (rock, austin, hogan etc.) that nobody bought poor Al Snow, the mid-card wrestler that was never massively popular.

    As a result of nobody buying him back then when he was readily available, he's now in great demand as nobody has that figure.


    Could you perhaps buy a whiskey that's not very popular, and due to the very nature of it not being popular, if it discontinues or disappears off the face of the earth, as you'd be one of the very few people to have bothered buying it, it would be rarer and worth more?


    (or in the whiskey world is it just a lot safer to stick with the names that are well known and established? Even though you run the risk of others collecting the same thing?)

    (I appreciate the WWE line of thinking may not translate well, but I'm just trying to throw out some general comments about the issue of collecting a 'readily available' product, and i presume most collections, whether it's whiskey, barbie, stamps, or wrestlers, would have similar pitfalls).

    Not fully translatable but at the same time it’s good to get the alternative view. That’s what I’m here for. The difference as I see it, is that the whiskey needs to be rare AND desirable as well. It probably needs to be good quality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,181 ✭✭✭✭ super_furry


    Actually really like that idea and might nick it myself for my two-year and 2-month old boys.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭ colm_c


    Interesting idea.

    How would you store 60 bottles to keep them in pristine condition?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    Actually really like that idea and might nick it myself for my two-year and 2-month old boys.

    As I say, it’s a slow burner but could be really nice project.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    colm_c wrote: »
    Interesting idea.

    How would you store 60 bottles to keep them in pristine condition?

    Part of the reason I’m choosing whiskey is because they are easier enough to store compared to wine. Room temp, upright and out of sunlight is all you need from what I’m reading.( I’m no expert ). The type I’ve picked comes in a box so that will help too. As collection grows I would probably look at conveying under the stairs.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,072 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers


    Just a simple investment idea. Was hoping to get peoples' thoughts on it. I have two young sons (6 months & 3 years). My plan is to buy a bottle of midleton very rare on their birthday each year. Then when they are 30th I will hand over the collection. Should have appreciated in value quite a bit. And even if it doesn't they will have some very fine bottles of whiskey to drink or give as presents. Any thoughts?


    If you had started it 20 years ago then you would have a fine collection. Previous gains are not a sign of future gains however, but if you can afford to put up to €360 In a cupboard for them every year then work away. Midleton has never lost its value so the only risk is complete loss due to storage issues, or the value of them not appreciating.

    I would say if your going to do it then buy through duty free, or get someone to buy in duty free.

    I would be inclined to buy two bottles from the year of their birth, so they can keep one and sell the other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    If you had started it 20 years ago then you would have a fine collection. Previous gains are not a sign of future gains however, but if you can afford to put up to €360 In a cupboard for them every year then work away. Midleton has never lost its value so the only risk is complete loss due to storage issues, or the value of them not appreciating.

    I would say if your going to do it then buy through duty free, or get someone to buy in duty free.

    I would be inclined to buy two bottles from the year of their birth, so they can keep one and sell the other.

    Yeah, I need to find cheap sources. I hear you can buy online from Europe cheaper. Really like the idea of buying two of the birth year!


  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭ Hondo75


    The mvr bought in 1984 is worth 800 900..the one bought in 1989 is nearly 10000..todays mvr is every where tesco etc.. Need to look at limited releases of new and upcoming distilleries.. And even then its a gamble.. The 1st pot still from Dingle as example.. In temple bar for 1k..but taste wise not very good


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    Hondo75 wrote: »
    The mvr bought in 1984 is worth 800 900..the one bought in 1989 is nearly 10000..todays mvr is every where tesco etc.. Need to look at limited releases of new and upcoming distilleries.. And even then its a gamble.. The 1st pot still from Dingle as example.. In temple bar for 1k..but taste wise not very good

    I suppose the new ones, as in the current year, would be available in most off licences? As the years go by they get rarer? I may be able to stretch to the Crockett edition but not much more.

    I am attaching the current values of the last 30 years. New to site do not sure it will work...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    What I would be really interested in knowing is how many are made each year. Like, is it increasing.

    Saying less than 2,400 cases a year are made. As long as it stays steady I’d be happy


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,817 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    Just a simple investment idea. Was hoping to get peoples' thoughts on it. I have two young sons (6 months & 3 years). My plan is to buy a bottle of midleton very rare on their birthday each year. Then when they are 30th I will hand over the collection. Should have appreciated in value quite a bit. And even if it doesn't they will have some very fine bottles of whiskey to drink or give as presents. Any thoughts?

    It is not a simple investment idea. In reality it is a very high risk idea which attempts to treat commodities as collectibles and the history is not good on the topic. If your objective is to give your kids a nice nest egg in the future then a bog standard portfolio is far more likely to do so.

    In reality collectibles have a short shelf life and their value is entirely dependent on what’s trending.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    It is not a simple investment idea. In reality it is a very high risk idea which attempts to treat commodities as collectibles and the history is not good on the topic. If your objective is to give your kids a nice nest egg in the future then a bog standard portfolio is far more likely to do so.

    In reality collectibles have a short shelf life and their value is entirely dependent on what’s trending.

    I have a small portfolio for them. Just wanted to do something different as well. Would they not hold their value at a minimum? As long as they are stored right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,072 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers


    Hondo75 wrote: »
    The mvr bought in 1984 is worth 800 900..the one bought in 1989 is nearly 10000..todays mvr is every where tesco etc.. Need to look at limited releases of new and upcoming distilleries.. And even then its a gamble.. The 1st pot still from Dingle as example.. In temple bar for 1k..but taste wise not very good



    Waterford.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,072 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers


    I have a small portfolio for them. Just wanted to do something different as well. Would they not hold their value at a minimum? As long as they are stored right.



    There is risk with everything. As someone mentioned a portfolio MIGHT be a better financial idea, but this isn’t necessarily a pure financial decision and it COULD outperform a financial investment. MVR has always held its value, and typically I see a lot of bottles increase in value by €5 per year,( Ie a ten year old bottle will be current price plus €50) but that’s based on current prices and previous vintages where production nowadays is surely far higher which would lead one to that that the very rare isnt going to be Very rare down the road.

    You also have the possibility over 30 years of picking up a year that is highly sought after or one that isn’t.

    I think it’s a great idea, but personally I would tweet it and get bottles from
    Other distilleries, espically the smaller independent places.


    Best case scenario every bottle increases value by 10-15% each year.
    Worst case, you have a lot of tasty whiskey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    There is risk with everything. As someone mentioned a portfolio MIGHT be a better financial idea, but this isn’t necessarily a pure financial decision and it COULD outperform a financial investment. MVR has always held its value, and typically I see a lot of bottles increase in value by €5 per year,( Ie a ten year old bottle will be current price plus €50) but that’s based on current prices and previous vintages where production nowadays is surely far higher which would lead one to that that the very rare isnt going to be Very rare down the road.

    You also have the possibility over 30 years of picking up a year that is highly sought after or one that isn’t.

    I think it’s a great idea, but personally I would tweet it and get bottles from
    Other distilleries, espically the smaller independent places.


    Best case scenario every bottle increases value by 10-15% each year.
    Worst case, you have a lot of tasty whiskey.

    That’s what I’m hoping. I just don’t know enough about it to start looking at different whiskeys. I suppose I was looking at the lazy option. They do seem to keep the production limited so that is appealing to me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,072 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers


    That’s what I’m hoping. I just don’t know enough about it to start looking at different whiskeys. I suppose I was looking at the lazy option. They do seem to keep the production limited so that is appealing to me.

    Very few know a lot about whiskey, and i certainly know very little, but from a buying point of view:
    I keep track of the distilleries through their social media, I won’t buy anything that isn’t distilled by them. If I want to buy Jameson I will buy Jameson not Jameson in a bottle by another distillery that won’t say they haven’t made it, I understand why they do it, but it’s not for me.

    Watch some videos, educate yourself, and that knowledge will be something you can pass on with some nice whiskey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    Very few know a lot about whiskey, and i certainly know very little, but from a buying point of view:
    I keep track of the distilleries through their social media, I won’t buy anything that isn’t distilled by them. If I want to buy Jameson I will buy Jameson not Jameson in a bottle by another distillery that won’t say they haven’t made it, I understand why they do it, but it’s not for me.

    Watch some videos, educate yourself, and that knowledge will be something you can pass on with some nice whiskey.

    As far as I know, mvr is only made in the cork distillery. I think also say to invest in local whiskey and that would be one of the closest to me. Jameson have 80% of the US market too, so another plus. The Chinese/India market will explode so getting that right could be very lucrative

    (80% of the Irish whiskey market)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,072 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers


    As far as I know, mvr is only made in the cork distillery. I think also say to invest in local whiskey and that would be one of the closest to me. Jameson have 80% of the US market too, so another plus. The Chinese/India market will explode so getting that right could be very lucrative

    (80% of the Irish whiskey market)



    Yea, MVR and Jameson is only made in Midleton, they are talking about an expansion to youghal but that might be a bit off.

    What I was referring to are the other brands that buy whiskey from one of the old distilleries - Midleton or Bushmills and rebrand it as something else, like Mcgregors proper piss. A lot of distilleries do it to get their brand in the market and get some cash flow, While they are waiting for spirit to mature, but it’s essentially Jameson or Bushmills in a different bottle. Personally I will wait for their own distilled spirit to hit the market before I buy it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,534 ✭✭✭✭ the_syco


    Yeah, I need to find cheap sources. I hear you can buy online from Europe cheaper. Really like the idea of buying two of the birth year!
    You may need certs of authenticity?
    Room temp, upright and out of sunlight is all you need from what I’m reading.
    And secure. Otherwise, when the kids hit 15 or 17, the whiskeys will start to become watered down crap when they find your stash.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    the_syco wrote: »
    You may need certs of authenticity?


    And secure. Otherwise, when the kids hit 15 or 17, the whiskeys will start to become watered down crap when they find your stash.

    Absolutely! That’s my biggest fear!!

    Will check out about certs


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,072 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers


    I don’t know what certificates you expect to get with any bottle of MVR, try to keep the shop receipt in the box maybe, but they don’t do anything beyond that.


    And just leave a cheap bottle of huzzar on a lower shelf for them to work on!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    I don’t know what certificates you expect to get with any bottle of MVR, try to keep the shop receipt in the box maybe, but they don’t do anything beyond that.


    And just leave a cheap bottle of huzzar on a lower shelf for them to work on!!

    Class!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,817 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    I have a small portfolio for them. Just wanted to do something different as well. Would they not hold their value at a minimum? As long as they are stored right.

    Collectables are so risky because they don't have any intrinsic value, it is entirely depends on what is trending in 20 or 30 years time. It could be very valuable or just a shelf of old whiskey that no one cares about.

    For example up to about the year 2000, you could pick up a Meccano Set 10 for about £250 and up until a few years about you could have off loaded them for £5,000 or so. Then the price started to all and now a reasonable price is considered to about £1,000 - £1,500. Depending on when you bought them you could have had a great investment or an absolute disaster. So what happened? The baby boomers where the men with the dream of owning a set and on retirement they had the cash to acquire them, but once they had stocked up, the interest died.... Whiskey may be a thing in 20 - 30 years or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,072 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Collectables are so risky because they don't have any intrinsic value, it is entirely depends on what is trending in 20 or 30 years time. It could be very valuable or just a shelf of old whiskey that no one cares about.

    For example up to about the year 2000, you could pick up a Meccano Set 10 for about £250 and up until a few years about you could have off loaded them for £5,000 or so. Then the price started to all and now a reasonable price is considered to about £1,000 - £1,500. Depending on when you bought them you could have had a great investment or an absolute disaster. So what happened? The baby boomers where the men with the dream of owning a set and on retirement they had the cash to acquire them, but once they had stocked up, the interest died.... Whiskey may be a thing in 20 - 30 years or not.



    Your evaluating the investment from a purely financial point of view and forgetting that 30’year old meccano tastes sh1t with a little ice and a small drop of water.

    Put away some whiskey in proper conditions and you will always have good quality whiskey. Put away a kids toy and you will always have a kids toy.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭ all about the mane


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Collectables are so risky because they don't have any intrinsic value, it is entirely depends on what is trending in 20 or 30 years time. It could be very valuable or just a shelf of old whiskey that no one cares about.

    For example up to about the year 2000, you could pick up a Meccano Set 10 for about £250 and up until a few years about you could have off loaded them for £5,000 or so. Then the price started to all and now a reasonable price is considered to about £1,000 - £1,500. Depending on when you bought them you could have had a great investment or an absolute disaster. So what happened? The baby boomers where the men with the dream of owning a set and on retirement they had the cash to acquire them, but once they had stocked up, the interest died.... Whiskey may be a thing in 20 - 30 years or not.

    I do think they are slightly different. I would equate whiskey more to wine than to meccano. There always seems to be demand for them. Although people are drinking a lot less now than they used to do that is a thought in the back of my head. But I can’t agree that there is no intrinsic value. I understand with meccano as it is a dated toy. But good whiskey surely has value?


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