Why do 85% of GPs not provide abortion services? - mod warning in OP (01/01/20)

bfa1509

I hate to open up this debate again, but I was baffled at how these abortion statistics were presented by RTE today:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1231/1103681-unplanned-pregnancy-freephone/

The title says "Floodgates didn't open when abortion services introduced" according to the head of a maternity unit.

Buried in the article are the following statistics, which should be the real headline:

48% of maternity units do not offer abortion
85% of GPs do not offer abortion services

Why is this? These are shocking statistics!

Mod warning 01/01/20

Beasty wrote: »

I've just deleted a number of posts

Do not turn this into a rehash of the referendum discussion. This thread is about GPs not providing abortion services. Stick to that

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread

lawred2

They are not obligated to

FAMLEE

Because they have ZERO morals.

Ubbquittious

There isn't massive demand for them.

collywobble7

FAMLEE wrote:

Because they have morals.

FYP

FAMLEE

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There isn't massive demand for them.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to facilitate..

FAMLEE

collywobble7 wrote: »

FYP

gr8

Eggs For Dinner

Right, who are the captains picking sides for this one?

Allinall

Supply and demand.

Haven’t heard of loads of people unable to access the service.

Heart Break Kid

As long as their referring their patients on to another GP who will provide abortion services and there is no issue with waiting list, is this really an issue.

I’m not a woman but it wouldn’t suprise me if a woman chose not to see their long term family GP instead favouring a specialist location.

Ginger83

FAMLEE wrote: »

Because they have ZERO morals.

Maybe its the opposite

FAMLEE

Ginger83 wrote: »

Maybe its the opposite

Proceed to explain..

Donnielighto

Lack of knowledge considering it was illegal until relatively recently?

Charles Babbage

Hippocratic oath.
Save life, not end life.

FAMLEE

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Hippocratic oath.
Save life, not end life.

What about the woman's choice? & probable drain on our social welfare system?

brightspark

FAMLEE wrote: »

What about the woman's choice? & probable drain on our social welfare system?

Drain on our social welfare system? by that logic you should be looking for compulsory sterilisation of any long term social welfare recipient.

Ginger83

FAMLEE wrote: »

What about the woman's choice? & probable drain on our social welfare system?

What about the GP's choice

0lddog

bfa1509 wrote: »

I hate to open up this debate again, but I was baffled at how these abortion statistics were presented by RTE today....!

That RTE for you.

Next stop JD ?
.
.
.

I wonder if you have any idea of the amount of cr@p that The 'State' has dumped on this group of people in recent decades ? No wonder that mental health is no longer a trivial issue in the profession.

FAMLEE

Ginger83 wrote: »

What about the GP's choice

There should be no choice for GP's , the people have spoken.

If they cant facilitate the service they must find employment elsewhere.

Ginger83

FAMLEE wrote: »

There should be no choice for GP's , the people have spoken.

If they cant facilitate the service they must find employment elsewhere.

horse sh1t

CrabRevolution

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Hippocratic oath.
Save life, not end life.

Irish doctors don't take the hippocratic oath.

https://www.imt.ie/opinion/guest-posts/what-does-the-hippocratic-oath-mean-24-04-2009/

brightspark

FAMLEE wrote: »

There should be no choice for GP's , the people have spoken.

If they cant facilitate the service they must find employment elsewhere.

Given the shortage of GPs in many parts of the country do you really think getting rid of more is a good idea??

https://extra.ie/2019/12/29/lifestyle/health/84-year-old-gp-cant-retire-because-no-one-wants-to-take-his-job

Idle Passerby

It's disappointing that so few GPs have stepped up to care for their patients in this respect. I campaigned in favour of a yes vote and believe it should be available to whoever requires it...but if I'm honest, if I was in the position of needing an abortion I would be far more comfortable with it being anonymous and private rather than something that was recorded on my medical records for every small minded health professional to tut over for decades to come.

I imagine that many women are still travelling and ordering pills online for that very reason. Access is a step in the right direction but societal attitudes and stigma are a bigger hurdle to overcome. The fact so few GPs are willing to publicly declare themselves willing to provide this service is an indication that there is still a massive fear of negative judgement.

FAMLEE

Idle Passerby wrote: »

It's disappointing that so few GPs have stepped up to care for their patients in this respect. I campaigned in favour of a yes vote and believe it should be available to whoever requires it...but if I'm honest, if I was in the position of needing an abortion I would be far more comfortable with it being anonymous and private rather than something that was recorded on my medical records for every small minded health professional to tut over for decades to come.

I imagine that many women are still travelling and ordering pills online for that very reason. Access is a step in the right direction but societal attitudes and stigma are a bigger hurdle to overcome. The fact so few GPs are willing to publicly declare themselves willing to provide this service is an indication that there is still a massive fear of negative judgement.

Aye, good ole cahotlic's eh?

dartboardio

Disgraceful. Considering it is legal now, I presumed most would have taken it on. Rather leave a vulnerable young woman helpless in her time of need because of what they think is right or wrong, in their personal life.

jahalpin

FAMLEE wrote: »

There should be no choice for GP's , the people have spoken.

If they cant facilitate the service they must find employment elsewhere.

You're right, the people have spoken and abortion is no longer illegal here

Every GP surgery is a seperate business and they are entitled to decide what services they provide, you can't make somebody do something that they don't want to do

KaneToad

FAMLEE wrote: »

There should be no choice for GP's , the people have spoken.

If they cant facilitate the service they must find employment elsewhere.

Nonsense.

My GP won't facilitate electroejaculation therapy. Should she quit general practice too?

The people have indeed spoken - for a lift on the ban on abortion in Ireland. Not for a compulsory provision of the service by all GPs.

FAMLEE

dartboardio wrote: »

Disgraceful. Considering it is legal now, I presumed most would have taken it on. Rather leave a vulnerable young woman helpless in her time of need because of what they think is right or wrong, in their personal life.

Exactly, I imagine it would be a very difficult decision to make, why make it even harder by making them travel.

FAMLEE

KaneToad wrote: »

Nonsense.

My GP won't facilitate electroejaculation therapy. Should she quit general practice too?

The people have indeed spoken - for a lift on the ban on abortion in Ireland. Not for a compulsory provision of the service by all GPs.

Electrojaculation is not detrimental to your life or a drain on the state though?

KaneToad

FAMLEE wrote: »

Electrojaculation is not detrimental to your life or a drain on the state though?

Neither is having a baby.

Ginger83

I don't want to kill an unborn baby......you're fired

yep that'd work out well :rolleyes:

osarusan

I would guess that in the vast majority of cases, the GPs are offering medical abortions (pills), rather than ones requiring any surgery. I'm assuming Irish GPs would have very very little experience of, or training for, surgical abortions.


Even then, I guess GPs don't want the woman in the practice for hours between the taking of the pill and the end of the bleeding.

How does it happen in other countries? I'd always imagined that any surgical one takes place in a specialised clinic.

Mad_maxx

Where's the surprise?

GP,s do fcuk all bar treating chest infections and forwarding people on to hospital

Allinall

dartboardio wrote: »

Disgraceful. Considering it is legal now, I presumed most would have taken it on. Rather leave a vulnerable young woman helpless in her time of need because of what they think is right or wrong, in their personal life.

Which particular vulnerable young woman are you referring to?

I have heard of zero women complaining about lack of access to abortion services.

Not saying there aren’t any, but you would have thought it would be highlighted after the legislation was enacted.

Methinks it’s people getting agitated for no reason.

FAMLEE

Ginger83 wrote: »

I don't want to kill an unborn baby......you're fired

yep that'd work out well :rolleyes:

Scumbag. Have some empathy for the women who have to deal with this issue & make a CONSIDERATE decision.

KaneToad

FAMLEE wrote: »

Scumbag. Have some empathy for the women who have to deal with this issue & make a CONSIDERATE decision.

Yikes. Such aggression.

FAMLEE

KaneToad wrote: »

Yikes. Such aggression.

Will you be at mass 30 minutes early tomorrow in order to get a front seat?

uptherebels

People need to look at this as any other service provided by GP's. Not every GP provides every service.
Firstly there is demand for it. A practice with multiple GP's aren't going to have all the GP's provide it, as the numbers requiring it won't be sufficient for the cost/time in training them all. So one would provide it to the practice.
Then there are those who won't ever have enough cases so it is easier and for some I would imagine, in their view, safer for the patient to refer to a more experienced/sufficiently trained doctor.
Then there are those who won't ever provide it under any circumstance.
Now what % of GP's provide it is irrelevant, wether it is 1% or 99%, as long as the number is sufficient to meet demand.

Ginger83

FAMLEE wrote: »

Scumbag. Have some empathy for the women who have to deal with this issue & make a CONSIDERATE decision.

Mind your language.

No GP would not help a patient in need.

All no voters must be scum so

Heart Break Kid

FAMLEE wrote: »

Will you be at mass 30 minutes early tomorrow in order to get a front seat?

Why are you feeding the troll. Doesn't matter if abortion is ethically moral or not. Its legal and thats it.

What would be more interesting, would be finding out why so few GPs provide abortion services. Is it a genuine strain on the current services they provide. Is it cost prohibitive and the value provide by the state to perform not financially feasible or is it simply because they hate women, end of story.

FAMLEE

Ginger83 wrote: »

Mind your language.

No GP would not help a patient in need.

All no voters must be scum so

My primary language is English.

I beg to differ. 3-7+ days for an appointment.

Absolutely correct, a "no" voter is a scumbag, undeniably.

Pauliedragon

I would say a lot of doctors might be scared of a potential backlash from pro lifers. We've all read of cases over the years in other countries of places being vandalised and worse. I'm not saying it would go that far but it's still a devisive issue here. It might take a generation of people who never remember a country without abortion to have it more normalised and make more doctors comfortable providing it.

Ginger83

FAMLEE wrote: »

My primary language is English.

I beg to differ. 3-7+ days for an appointment.

Absolutely correct, a "no" voter is a scumbag, undeniably.

A moronic opinion

Plumbthedepths

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Hippocratic oath.
Save life, not end life.

Doctors in Ireland don't take the oath, just saying....

jrosen

I personally have a huge issue with medical clinics be they GP or hospitals refusing to provide this service. Ireland voted, women have been granted safe and legal access to abortion in this country and each and every woman no matter where she lives should be able to access the abortion pill locally.

However...

Because the govn have failed to introduce exclusion zones around GP's surgeries and hospitals it means a lot of GP;s who want to offer this service are nervous to do so incase they have protests outside their surgeries.

splinter65

FAMLEE wrote: »

Because they have ZERO morals.

A doctor not wanting to have anything to do with ending a life means that doctor has “ZERO morals”..... yeah, makes sense (scratches chin thoughtfully).

Beechwoodspark

Most GPs have no intention of providing such services.

splinter65

jrosen wrote: »

I personally have a huge issue with medical clinics be they GP or hospitals refusing to provide this service. Ireland voted, women have been granted safe and legal access to abortion in this country and each and every woman no matter where she lives should be able to access the abortion pill locally.

However...

Because the govn have failed to introduce exclusion zones around GP's surgeries and hospitals it means a lot of GP;s who want to offer this service are nervous to do so incase they have protests outside their surgeries.

.....or maybe, like my own GP, they don’t want to be abortion facilitators, and won’t be forced to either.

Beechwoodspark

If they are afraid of potential disruption that is only going to embolden the protestors

splinter65

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Doctors in Ireland don't take the oath, just saying....

Seems doctors in Ireland aren’t going to be told they have to be abortion facilitators either, just saying....

splinter65

dartboardio wrote: »

Disgraceful. Considering it is legal now, I presumed most would have taken it on. Rather leave a vulnerable young woman helpless in her time of need because of what they think is right or wrong, in their personal life.

In my personal life I think slavery is wrong. If slavery is legalised, do I have to facilitate you if you want to buy a slave?