Help getting a date.

S.G.M.

I've decided that I'm really going to focus on bettering myself in 2020 and one area ive struggled in, is dating. I'm 27 and never had a gf but I'm not desperate for one. I'm happy single, however, whenever I meet a woman I'd love to get to know, I never seem to be able to get anywhere romantically.

Im a massive messer but I wudnt be the strongest at flirting. I've regularly been referred to as the 'nice guy' which I know isn't a bad thing but when it's used as a reason to not date me then there must be another reason cos a woman doesn't turn a fella down for being nice. Im not hear saying that 'oh women never pick the nice guy'. I own my sh*t and women don't owe me anything.
I think the underlying reason is that I don't excite them for whatever reason. Therefore, that's the area I feel I need to work on.
Looks wise, I'd consider myself average but I'm working on myself in the gym and mentally.
I don't drink but I'm a massive messer and love joking so I wouldn't call myself boring. I could be reading far too much into this but when I've literally never got anywhere with a woman I've liked, not even a date, it feels like I'm doing something wrong.
I know confidence is massive and I would consider myself a confident guy but it may not show.
One of my best friends girlfriend says I come across as very wholesome which is not what a lot of women in their 20's are after.
Any tips? Thanks

The White Feather

I know the feeling as I was like that too once where I ended up being the nice friend all the time.It comes down to early on when you meet a woman you like.

Messing around is great as you want to be seen to be having a laugh but too much and you end up being viewed as "the Clown" I mean a guy who is a great laugh but women can never have a serious conversation with and then they never know where they stand with you. This leads them to look elsewhere.

So its a tricky thing of reeling yourself in a bit after you get to know them. After you get into a dating thing or boyfriend/girlfriend thing then you can have a laugh again because she will know that's just you being yourself. When they don't know you that well it can make them think you take nothing seriously.

The other big thing is to try to let them know that you are romantically interested early on. Even holding a hand or say you arranged this date just for her. Otherwise it seems like you are a messer and mess around with everyone.

The "wholesome" thing I actually got too so I know what you mean. It means you need to show that you want romance and not just a friend to have a laugh with. Obviously don't come on too strong early but if you like her and you think she likes you then give her a small kiss. Don't wait all night as thats too "wholesome" I used to do this. I would be getting on great and have a great time but didn't even put my arm around her or try to give her a kiss. Then you become too wholesome and you end up in the friend bracket or he just wants to have a laugh. I heard later that they assumed I didn't like them romantically as I didn't show it. So try to show it if you like them so then they know you would like more. But I add again, don't go overboard either as coming on too strong too quickly will ruin things too.

Its great joking around on a date but don't joke at everything. Try to have a few serious bits as you want to get to know the real other person not just the joker side. Remember just relax and if you like her try to show it a little.Really this is going to be at the end of the date or near it. If you had a great time then say it to her. If she responds that it was great too then try to give her a kiss. Even a kiss on the cheek. It shows that you aren't too wholesome!

Confidence is key. If she moves away and doesn't want a kiss then just thank her for the date. At least she knows you like her. She might want to wait a while for kissing or she may not like you that way. This way she knows you like her and you can see what happens.

Another thing is to compliment her to show you like her. I got caught up in my own head I would forget to do this. If you are trying to constantly joke then how will she know you like her? Basically what would a wholesome guy do? He will have a laugh and just head home. You need to have a laugh but show you are interested in her and not just a laugh. A wholesome guy won't try to hold a hand or kiss a cheek or flirt a little. Again though too much flirting and you end up not taken seriously as she might think you say it to every girl.

Its a tricky tightrope but just try to show you are interested in a relationship and not just a friend. Hope this helps!

The White Feather

Just another thing as you said you are trying to get to the actual date rather than on the date. Its the same thing as I was saying only you just need to ask her out if you like her. Don't wait for the "right" moment as it will never be fully right.

if you are nervous then just go for it. You have nothing to lose. This is where confidence comes in. Suggest something like a dinner, movie or whatever. Never say "do you want to do something?". Then she will say what? Then you say whatever you want. Then you get stuck!! Pick something to do. If she really doesn't like it she will suggest something else.

So if you know someone you like but are now just friends, then ask her out. Say it will be just you two. Then you are on a date and then see my previous post!

If you barely know them or not at all then ask them out too! Never wait. Just go for it. If they turn you down then that's ok too. You wont get anywhere wishing it, you have to make the date happen. Some will turn you down but others won't. Then you have your elusive date!

I used to always say to myself "He who hesitates, m****rbates"!! before I went over to a lady! This way I wouldn't delay it all night!! It made me laugh too so I was in good form on first approach :pac:

Upforthematch

Some great advice above. The only thing I'll add is to suggest going to a meetup if you are in Dublin or join macra if you're outside Dublin and don't mind the idea.

You sound sociable so time to get meeting people!

S.G.M.

Thanks folks for the advice.
I would be confident in myself if I was to get a date cos it wud show that the woman has some interest in me such would of course help ease any nerves. I wud be able to read social cues etc quite well so I'd back myself.
I actually find meeting women I fancy easily enough as I'm big into the health and wellness area and it has a lot of like minded people. However, getting to know them better can be difficult if I don't work with them or see them regularly in social circles.

ILoveYourVibes

S.G.M. wrote: »

I've decided that I'm really going to focus on bettering myself in 2020 and one area ive struggled in, is dating. I'm 27 and never had a gf but I'm not desperate for one. I'm happy single, however, whenever I meet a woman I'd love to get to know, I never seem to be able to get anywhere romantically.

Im a massive messer but I wudnt be the strongest at flirting. I've regularly been referred to as the 'nice guy' which I know isn't a bad thing but when it's used as a reason to not date me then there must be another reason cos a woman doesn't turn a fella down for being nice. Im not hear saying that 'oh women never pick the nice guy'. I own my sh*t and women don't owe me anything.

I mean this with the purest intent. So don't take it up wrong. BE LESS WHOLESOME. Its obviously not coming off the right way.

I am going to level with you. Women never say that and MEAN it...MEN say that so its men telling you that you are a nice guy.

Women are simply telling that they can't make a connection with you and they are not attracted to you and are not their type.

I never had a bf who I didn't consider a nice guy when i met him

You have to just be yourself.

Lots of girls can't connect with jokers or outgoing guys. I have to say i find outgoing guys harder to chat to. Thats not THEM that's ME. I'm quiet.

Just because you are attracted to a woman doesn't mean there is a connection there.

Men know women by the chemistry they feel for them. Find a mutual connection too.

If you are not getting somewhere with girls you like ....then there is some weird disconnect between the type of person you are and the type of person / girls you like.

I know confidence is massive and I would consider myself a confident guy but it may not show.

I would say it doesn't show. You don't seem at all confident or positive in your post. You seem really low on yourself and negative. I will be honest its not energy I would want to be around. Not sure if you give off different vibes in life.

Maybe you should stop paying attention to what other people say you are and start focusing on who you know you are. Bring that out into the world with confidence.


Good luck

Honeydew3456

S.G.M. wrote: »

Im a massive messer but I wudnt be the strongest at flirting. I've regularly been referred to as the 'nice guy' which I know isn't a bad thing but when it's used as a reason to not date me then there must be another reason cos a woman doesn't turn a fella down for being nice.

I adore a nice guy and there are plenty of other women that do too. I reckon you need to up your flirting game is all. Let the girl know you fancy them. It's as simple as strong eye contact, one on one convo and a touch on the knee/arm now and again while chatting.


Also compliments are everything to let a girl know you are interested. If you get one back then she is intetested too.


I think the underlying reason is that I don't excite them for whatever reason. Therefore, that's the area I feel I need to work on.


This part you are overthinking I reckon. I have been with nice guys that wouldn't haven been on my radar initially but once they did the above and let the chemistry flow it ended up being very exciting!


Looks wise, I'd consider myself average but I'm working on myself in the gym and mentally.
I don't drink but I'm a massive messer and love joking so I wouldn't call myself boring. I could be reading far too much into this but when I've literally never got anywhere with a woman I've liked, not even a date, it feels like I'm doing something wrong.


I think you are just not making them aware you are interested. Follow White Feathers advise that was brilliant!


I know confidence is massive and I would consider myself a confident guy but it may not show.
One of my best friends girlfriend says I come across as very wholesome which is not what a lot of women in their 20's are after.
Any tips? Thanks

Don't change being wholesome or sweet. It's a rare trait and I would almost bet there are plenty of lovely girls in their 20's that appreciate this too.

I currently have a friend in his 20s that on the outside comes off as wholesome and a nice guy to the rest of the world, to his core he is grnuinely a dote. Behind closed doors he is a beast. It's one million percent awesome :-)

S.G.M.

Honeydew3456 wrote:

Don't change being wholesome or sweet. It's a rare trait and I would almost bet there are plenty of lovely girls in their 20's that appreciate this too.

I currently have a friend in his 20s that on the outside comes off as wholesome and a nice guy to the rest of the world, to his core he is grnuinely a dote. Behind closed doors he is a beast. It's one million percent awesome :-)

Thank you Honeydew. I don't plan to change that side anyway. I've a lot of female friends and I see how poor they can be treated by fellas and I refuse to add to this problem.

I think the wholesome thing may be a turn off for women if they think of me sexually etc. when in fact, I am an animal when it comes to the bedroom. Not claiming I'm fantastic here lol but I mean that Im really raw and passionate while also being tuned into a womans needs. When I've spoken to female friends about sex for example, they have been shocked that I'm like that.

So I must be giving off an innocent vibe or something like that.
Like I was chatting a woman online a few months back and she was saying the whole 'you wouldn't be able to handle me' etc but as we got to know each other better and flirted more, she said I was one of the most sex savvy guys she's spoken to which really surprised her. When she showed a pic of me to her friends, they said 'hes cute but you would destroy him' to which she replied, 'his looks are very deceiving'.
I was glad to get this feedback cos it seems to be how I come across that may be one reason for my struggles.

Honeydew3456

Good. I am glad to hear that :-)

OMG well all I can say is the girl that does get to date you will be very lucky indeed!

White Feathers advise is outstanding and I kinda added some inside your original post when I quoted it but think I did it wrong!!

I really think you need to just up your flirting game and the subtle hints of letting a girl know you are interested while chatting. Seems to me you have everything else nailed.

Online is tough but I am glad you got that positive feedback. 2020 will be your year. Just own it, practice it, never fear rejection and each new victory in moving yourself closer to multiple dates will increase your confidence in the whole dating game massively.

S.G.M.

Thank you for your very sweet reply Honeydew.

I do think my flirting is where I need most work. 2020 is gonna be a big year.

LegacyUser

As a woman reading through this, the biggest turn-off for me is you being a messer. That is doing you no favours. Women like men with a sense of humour but if they're behaving like immature clowns it's going to ruin everything. Tone down the messing and try behaving like an adult. You might be surprised by the results.

Honeydew3456

S.G.M. wrote: »

Thank you for your very sweet reply Honeydew.

I do think my flirting is where I need most work. 2020 is gonna be a big year.

Sounds great! Have fun and enjoy :-)

Jimmy Bottlehead

You've gotten some good advice so far OP. I'd agree with you and argue that your wholesome persona may be a bit off-putting for most women... I'd argue that a little bit of cheek and edge is needed to keep yourself interesting. You'll be viewed as a worthier prospect if you're someone who would inspire competition (which is in line with your animal theory), whereas at the moment you're probably just blandly nice and therefore not worth fighting over or competing for.

Don't be afraid to make a move, and make a strong move at that (it shouldn't need stating, but obviously always with respect). If it doesn't work, that's cool, but at least you played your cards even if you lost a hand.

I hear you when you say you don't want to be part of the group of men who act like Arseholes. That being said, it's not your responsibility to be Captain Nice, so don't curtail yourself in order to show that not all men mistreat women.

Keep up the work on yourself and self improvement, and maybe see if you can integrate the wholesome part with what you call your animal side. The middle ground might be the sweet spot if you can find it.

Best of luck.

The White Feather

S.G.M. wrote: »

So I must be giving off an innocent vibe or something like that.
Like I was chatting a woman online a few months back and she was saying the whole 'you wouldn't be able to handle me' etc but as we got to know each other better and flirted more, she said I was one of the most sex savvy guys she's spoken to which really surprised her. When she showed a pic of me to her friends, they said 'hes cute but you would destroy him' to which she replied, 'his looks are very deceiving'.
I was glad to get this feedback cos it seems to be how I come across that may be one reason for my struggles.

Wow, this feels like me writing this years ago. I got all that too!

Keep being yourself but just go for it here and there. If you think the time is right then it is. Don't wait! You don't need to change the way you are as women will appreciate it.

It's better to be underestimated like you were with that woman online rather than being overestimated. Remember that!

S.G.M.

I think my confidence does need some work too.
If theres a woman I fancy, I always seem to think I'm punching above my weight. The 'why would she pick me' creeps into my head.

The White Feather

Think of it as why wouldn't she pick you?

I think of it as you are a good guy. You treat women nice. Why shouldn't she like you?

Thats the way I began operating. All negativity gone as soon as I start going up to someone. Doesn't mean you begin to think you are gods gift! It means you know you are a nice guy at heart.

Don't mind this punching above your weight thinking. Thats irrelevant.If you are thinking you are lucky to be talking to her then thats the wrong attitude. Goes back to confidence. If anything you need to act like of all the women around here, I came up to you. You dont say to her "wow im so amazing I came up to you", I just mean have confidence basically. Women always like confident men. Don't go overboard though!

Why shouldn't you be confident? Its great that you said you don't need a girlfriend. That shows you are getting on great on your own. That shows you are confident already you don't realise it.

So just a change of mindset is all that's needed. You have no reason to not be confident!!

S.G.M.

The White Feather wrote:

Think of it as why wouldn't she pick you?


I think of it as you are a good guy. You treat women nice. Why shouldn't she like you?


Thats the way I began operating. All negativity gone as soon as I start going up to someone. Doesn't mean you begin to think you are gods gift! It means you know you are a nice guy at heart.


Don't mind this punching above your weight thinking. Thats irrelevant.If you are thinking you are lucky to be talking to her then thats the wrong attitude. Goes back to confidence. If anything you need to act like of all the women around here, I came up to you. You dont say to her "wow im so amazing I came up to you", I just mean have confidence basically. Women always like confident men. Don't go overboard though!


Why shouldn't you be confident? Its great that you said you don't need a girlfriend. That shows you are getting on great on your own. That shows you are confident already you don't realise it.


So just a change of mindset is all that's needed. You have no reason to not be confident!!

Thanks TWF. Yeah as you said, I've confidence in a lot of certain areas but dating isn't one of them lol
However, I plan to work on it and push myself more.

leggo

There’s no actions or tricks you can do to be more successful when it comes to romance. Sure we could tell you some fun things to say on Tinder, interesting topics to bring up on dates or ways to try get the ride on a night out...but the reality is that all comes apart once you’re with someone because they see you for who you are (maybe even clearer than how you see yourself because they see our blind spots too).

When I hear stuff like ‘too nice’, I translate it into ‘people pleaser’. As you say yourself OP, women don’t turn down dating someone because they’re a decent person. The way I’ve observed it when someone I know got hit with the ‘too nice’ label is a lad who agrees with what people say, does/says things to be liked, basically doesn’t know or isn’t comfortable with who they really are so they build their entire personality around being who they think people want them to be. That’s untrustworthy and unattractive: nobody is perfect and pretending to be just makes people (consciously or not) ask the question “Yeah but who are you REALLY?! Are you a bad drunk? Bad in bed? What’s the most offensive opinion you have??” It’s why people can see someone as physically attractive and like being around them but feel nothing towards them, and also why so-called ‘assholes’ can be attractive because at least they’re in touch and comfortable with who they are.

The truth is anytime I’ve met someone worth meeting who I’ve kept around for beyond a few dates, it’s when I haven’t been looking or trying. When I’m comfortable in my own skin and just taking life as it comes, having fun and being myself. I know ‘be yourself’ can be frustrating advice, but when you really break it down it’s actually solid advice: Who are you? What makes you stand out? Why would you be attractive to others? Why would someone great pick you over countless other people they could get with? When you have a good answer to these questions then just live your life to the fullest with those answers in mind, the rest just falls into place and stuff happens where it didn’t before. So instead of focusing on trying to convince women to like you, take time to like yourself and that’ll radiate to everyone around you. Sounds new age and hippy but it really works.

S.G.M.

leggo wrote:

The truth is anytime I’ve met someone worth meeting who I’ve kept around for beyond a few dates, it’s when I haven’t been looking or trying. When I’m comfortable in my own skin and just taking life as it comes, having fun and being myself. I know ‘be yourself’ can be frustrating advice, but when you really break it down it’s actually solid advice: Who are you? What makes you stand out? Why would you be attractive to others? Why would someone great pick you over countless other people they could get with? When you have a good answer to these questions then just live your life to the fullest with those answers in mind, the rest just falls into place and stuff happens where it didn’t before. So instead of focusing on trying to convince women to like you, take time to like yourself and that’ll radiate to everyone around you. Sounds new age and hippy but it really works.

Thanks Leggo, makes a lot of sense. I'll definitely work on that cos it is probably an area I may have neglected. One question is, do you think it's possible to go out of your way to help people without making it look like you're doing it to make people like you?
I think in the past I've definitely been a people pleaser and wanted everyone to like me etc but I've definitely worked on this and am better in that regard now. However, I'm a big believer in, 'do unto others, as you would have done unto you'. So I do sometimes go out of my way towards help people but it's not to make them like me.
Ive done it in the past with women I've fancied and I learned its not the right approach at all. It's better to put yourself first to show you're not a walkover.
However, if I'm helping people that I'm not aiming to impress but the women I fancy see me do it, will that work against me. Like I don't believe there is enough kindness in the world and I think it's important to be that change you wish to see.
I don't think I'm explaining this the best tbh lol but I hope ya may get where I'm coming from.

Sunny Disposition

To thine own self be true.
If you are wholesome then definitely do not change that. Be yourself, if you try and be someone else it just won’t work, you’ll come across as false and insecure.
It can be a hard thing to find your way with the opposite sex if it doesn’t come very easily at first so be gentle and patient with yourself.
Best of luck, in my experience people who are prepared to make a conscious effort at this stuff will succeed sooner or later!

qwerty13

<< Happy New Year >> wrote: »

As a woman reading through this, the biggest turn-off for me is you being a messer. That is doing you no favours. Women like men with a sense of humour but if they're behaving like immature clowns it's going to ruin everything. Tone down the messing and try behaving like an adult. You might be surprised by the results.

Depends on what is meant by a ‘massive messer’. I don’t know if you’re like this OP, but what springs to mind for me is someone that doesn’t engage in conversations, and is constantly looking to ‘the lads’ to act the clown or pull the p*ss out of someone in the group. I’d find that very off-putting - but I don’t like practical jokes or when a member of a group is very loud and seeking attention. Not saying you are like that - it’s the picture I’m getting from ‘massive messer’ though.

S.G.M.

qwerty13 wrote:

Depends on what is meant by a ‘massive messer’. I don’t know if you’re like this OP, but what springs to mind for me is someone that doesn’t engage in conversations, and is constantly looking to ‘the lads’ to act the clown or pull the p*ss out of someone in the group. I’d find that very off-putting - but I don’t like practical jokes or when a member of a group is very loud and seeking attention. Not saying you are like that - it’s the picture I’m getting from ‘massive messer’ though.

Sorry, I've not explained that well. I mean I'm someone that loves a laugh and making light of things to lift peoples spirits.
I definitely have a serious side. I'm big into heath and wellness as well as psychology and mental health awareness so I can hold a deep meaningful conversation. I didn't mean for 'massive messer' to come across as 'the loud idiot on a night out'. My bad.

qwerty13

S.G.M. wrote: »

Sorry, I've not explained that well. I mean I'm someone that loves a laugh and making light of things to lift peoples spirits.
I definitely have a serious side. I'm big into heath and wellness as well as psychology and mental health awareness so I can hold a deep meaningful conversation. I didn't mean for 'massive messer' to come across as 'the loud idiot on a night out'. My bad.

Na, not your bad - just me relating the phrase massive messer to people I know who’d describe themselves that way. I was wondering if it was tying into the please pleasing slightly insecure stuff. Doesn’t sound like it though.

S.G.M.

qwerty13 wrote:

Na, not your bad - just me relating the phrase massive messer to people I know who’d describe themselves that way. I was wondering if it was tying into the please pleasing slightly insecure stuff. Doesn’t sound like it though.

Ah ok I get ya. Yeah, I don't do it to cover up insecurities. I just like having a laugh. I mentioned it in my OP to show that I'm up for a laugh and that I don't think it's a lack of sense of humour that was hampering me.

leggo

S.G.M. wrote: »

Thanks Leggo, makes a lot of sense. I'll definitely work on that cos it is probably an area I may have neglected. One question is, do you think it's possible to go out of your way to help people without making it look like you're doing it to make people like you?
I think in the past I've definitely been a people pleaser and wanted everyone to like me etc but I've definitely worked on this and am better in that regard now. However, I'm a big believer in, 'do unto others, as you would have done unto you'. So I do sometimes go out of my way towards help people but it's not to make them like me.
Ive done it in the past with women I've fancied and I learned its not the right approach at all. It's better to put yourself first to show you're not a walkover.
However, if I'm helping people that I'm not aiming to impress but the women I fancy see me do it, will that work against me. Like I don't believe there is enough kindness in the world and I think it's important to be that change you wish to see.
I don't think I'm explaining this the best tbh lol but I hope ya may get where I'm coming from.

No I get what you mean. Again, there’s no quick fix or step-by-step guide here, if you start being selfish but don’t put in the work chances are you’ll just come across as an arsehole to people, which probably isn’t what you want and won’t help you. For example, I knew a lad before who’d do anything for anyone, like he wouldn’t let you do anything yourself and would insist, to the point that you’d start almost depending on him because it would become normal. Then he’d kinda ‘get in’ and become your friend and cut you off in favour of doing it for the next person. I saw it repeated time after time like a pattern, people thinking he was the soundest lad ever then thinking he was a dick.

It’s a self-worth issue. With this lad, for example, I’d be willing to say he saw himself as only worthy of people’s time if he almost ‘bought’ it through doing stuff for them. And because that was how he approached it, that was how people reacted to him. Whereas most of the time people are around their friends just because they’re sound people they enjoy spending time with, not because they do favours for them. Of course you can still do nice stuff for your friends, but it shouldn’t be someone’s entire motivation for being around you. So if there are self-worth issues at play and you subconsciously have a low opinion of yourself, you might be over-compensating by kinda buying your way in. The solution is the same as the one I gave you above except in a non-romantic sense: Why would people spend time with me? What do I like about myself? Why am I worth people making an effort to be friends with? Learn to put your own needs first. And that way, you can still be sound too, you don’t have to just become a selfish arsehole. And, again, the rest just falls into place from there. Think about it yourself even: have you ever been sexually attracted to someone because they got you coffees or did nice things for you? No, you’re attracted to someone because they’re attractive, looks and personality-wise. And even if someone was attracted to you because you did stuff and they saw a material gain from it...is that the kind of person you want to invest time into?

S.G.M.

Thanks Leggo. Plenty of food for thought.

S.G.M.

Just a bit of an example here. Got chatting a woman through instagram. I'm quite good at breaking the ice through DM's but I'm still unsure of how to move from chatting to flirting. I feel so stupid and I'm sure she's got so many fellas trying it on with her in her DM's.

new32234

S.G.M. wrote: »

I've decided that I'm really going to focus on bettering myself in 2020 and one area ive struggled in, is dating. I'm 27 and never had a gf

We must be long lost brothers or something, I'm going through the same thing

I see no light at the end of my tunnel though

I have hope for you though.

ChrissieH

Hi S.G.M.

A quick response here to say that there are definitely different "types" (if you'll excuse the generalisation!!) of guys and girls, and it may be that the "type" of girl you're attracted to is not attracted to your "type" if you get me?
I have never been attracted to the nice guy, the wholesome guy that you're identifying with. I love them as friends, but not sexually. And I'm not going to the other extreme by saying "oh I like bad boys", but for me, a man definitely has to have a bit of an edge, and my personal taste is for a very stereotypical masculine man's man (I'm aware of how cringe that sounds but I can't find any better wording!!!); for example, someone who spends most of their time with other men, with a physical job like a builder rather than an office job, who is easy-going and basically the polar opposite of myself.
Now, that's just me giving you an example of what I prefer when it comes to a partner, and I'm only doing that to try and give you a bit of insight and as I said at the start, to maybe remind you that everyone has preferences about what kind of person they like, so maybe you've just been barking up wrong trees if it so happens that the girls you've fancied haven't fancied you back.

I do think that I speak for most women though when I say that if we like a guy, we do like them to be fairly assertive and confident. I understand that this boils down to you being very sure that you've read a girl's signals correctly, as of course the last thing you'd want to do is move in for a kiss if she has no interest, but when you say that you're into psychology etc, I'm assuming you're pretty tuned into other people's vibes etc, so if you think she's in any way keen, don't sit back too much - you'd be surprised at how girls can go from being only half interested to being fully interested once you've boosted her confidence by making her feel desirable!

I don't have any advice for you, but some of the male posters here have been great to identify with you and give you some feedback, so hopefully you'll find yourself a great girlfriend!
(Actually, I do have a bit of mad advice.. would you consider watching Love Island to "scientifically analyise" (LOL!!) the dynamics of it all - it's fascinating to me, a fellow psychology enthusiast, to watch the changing emotions!)

S.G.M.

ChrissieH wrote:

A quick response here to say that there are definitely different "types" (if you'll excuse the generalisation!!) of guys and girls, and it may be that the "type" of girl you're attracted to is not attracted to your "type" if you get me? I have never been attracted to the nice guy, the wholesome guy that you're identifying with. I love them as friends, but not sexually. And I'm not going to the other extreme by saying "oh I like bad boys", but for me, a man definitely has to have a bit of an edge, and my personal taste is for a very stereotypical masculine man's man (I'm aware of how cringe that sounds but I can't find any better wording!!!); for example, someone who spends most of their time with other men, with a physical job like a builder rather than an office job, who is easy-going and basically the polar opposite of myself. Now, that's just me giving you an example of what I prefer when it comes to a partner, and I'm only doing that to try and give you a bit of insight and as I said at the start, to maybe remind you that everyone has preferences about what kind of person they like, so maybe you've just been barking up wrong trees if it so happens that the girls you've fancied haven't fancied you back.
I do think that I speak for most women though when I say that if we like a guy, we do like them to be fairly assertive and confident. I understand that this boils down to you being very sure that you've read a girl's signals correctly, as of course the last thing you'd want to do is move in for a kiss if she has no interest, but when you say that you're into psychology etc, I'm assuming you're pretty tuned into other people's vibes etc, so if you think she's in any way keen, don't sit back too much - you'd be surprised at how girls can go from being only half interested to being fully interested once you've boosted her confidence by making her feel desirable!


I don't have any advice for you, but some of the male posters here have been great to identify with you and give you some feedback, so hopefully you'll find yourself a great girlfriend! (Actually, I do have a bit of mad advice.. would you consider watching Love Island to "scientifically analyise" (LOL!!) the dynamics of it all - it's fascinating to me, a fellow psychology enthusiast, to watch the changing emotions!)

Thanks for the input Chrissie. I agree that being assertive etc seems to be a big attraction for women and I would be assertive and for example no woman would be telling me what to do lol but again I may not come across like that.

See I have a lot of female friends as well as guy friends. I was really shy in secondary school and basically didn't have one female friend until I was about 20. So now it's nice having a mix. I do most things with my female friends and have more of distance friendship with the lads. Mainly cos women are much better at organising to meet up and the lads are all scattered around the county and have gfs etc
I have felt that hanging out with women may be hampering me as I probably don't come across as the manliest by doing that. Even though I'd back myself to be manlier than a lot of the guys that have it as a front to cover their insecurities.

I did find love island fascinating at first due to the dynamics but when I realised most is scripted, I lost all interest. They have a winter one now which will be a headwrecker for a few weeks. Famous for being famous (sigh)

ChrissieH

Hi S.G.M.

You're coming across as quite confident in yourself as a person, which is fantastic, it's lovely to hear you have such a variety of friends and interests, you're obviously a really well-rounded and popular person, so maybe it's just a case of changing how we look at your situation, i.e.: you're following very defined stages in life - you've spent the last few years developing from your shy teen self into a more assured, confident man, surrounding yourself with lots of different people, and now you're ready to go to the next stage of developing a brilliant romantic relationship with someone. So it couldn't have happened before now because you were focusing on being the best version of you... to me, that sounds like a really brilliant way of doing things in life!

And please don't even think about your manliness levels!! I was just giving you my opinion on what works for me as an example of the range of preferences out there. My friend at work thinks "nerdy guys" (her words, not mine!) are the best thing ever, and my lifelong best friend is married to a man who is really lovely but in MY mind, a bit effeminate and I'd never have thought she'd be with him, but that's because I can only ever see sexual attraction through my own lense - which I presume is the same for everyone, hence the whole mystery of vibes and chemistry etc. - so that's all I was trying to get across when I was giving you MY personal preference.

I'm not madly 'girly' by any stretch of the imagination, I am a real feminist and very capable & independent, but at the same time, I just have a preference for very masculine men. I like the feeling of being completely the woman of the relationship, as in - this sounds terrible!! Eek! - but I like being indulged when I'm in a mood (or at least tolerated when I'm giving out!!) and I like being able to give out to someone who doesn't take it too seriously / who isn't sensitive, I like that he does the things that I hate, like putting petrol in my car for me, I like that he just lets me go off and book all our holidays or meals or whatever and he just goes along with it all and that he makes me feel physically safe no matter where we go... basically I like that my husband is one of these men that lives by the Oscar Wilde quote that women are meant to be loved, not understood!! :-)


I agree with you about Love Island btw, but I still enjoy watching the ups and downs of the everyday stuff that is more off-the-cuff, like when someone gets jealous or is too slow to make a move etc. I think reality TV in general is a great way of getting insights into how people behave!!

S.G.M.

Thanks Chrissie,

That's true about not being ready a few years back. I can see the difference. Like in my early 20's I was finding myself attracted to a lot of women just for giving me some time as I was used to getting no romantic interest. Now she's gotta be something very special to me for me to entertain the idea of letting her into my life. I'm lucky that I've come across a lot of women that I've seen that potential in but for one reason or another it wasn't to be.

I actually think I have a lot of the characteristics that your husband has.
The best way to describe me is the teacher in Phoebe's love triangle in 'Friends'.
The one where she is dating the fireman and the teacher. She likes the fireman cos he's 'manly and muscly' but she likes the teacher cos he's 'sweet and caring'. When she goes to break up with the teacher she sees him with his top off putting up shelves in his apartment and he is super ripped.
I feel I'm quite like the teacher here (although not super ripped yet hahah)
Like I know a lot about cars, id be the guy getting rid off spiders, I'm not overly sensitive if a woman is in a bad mood, I'm good with my hands and I'm quite protective etc to name a few.
Like the teacher in 'Friends', Phoebe couldn't see this side of him until she got to know him better.
This is probably a weird example if you don't watch Friends btw lol

However, I can see why a woman with tastes like yourself wouldnt choose me as you probably wouldn't be able to see these traits from the get go.

The White Feather

SGM.
You are far ahead of where I started from. I never knew any girls never mind talking to them until my 20s. Other than that, you sound exactly like I was.

I don't know what to say about watching Love Island. I don't see how that can help at all. Again you need real world things. That is total make believe.If you are watching for fun thats ok of course!

Be careful though as this thread should really be closed by you now. You know what you need to do if you want to get a gf. Go out and start "chatting" them up.I use inverted commas as really you are just going over and talking to them. You might realise they are not for you or they might turn you down. Various things may happen but you will get used to it.

The reason I say be careful, is because you will get caught up in all the theory and ideas and not doing anything. Talking on instagram is a good idea. I did the same stuff. Talked to people online to use it to get good at having a conversation. But the problem is its online. Who knows what people are thinking. She could have a bf, not want a bf or just love attention. I would progress it to meeting up as soon as I can. Or else move on.

I think you should just go up to nice girls when you see them. It sounds crazy but it works. I began by going to a shopping centre one day and started asking girls do they have the time. Get it and politely thank them and move on. From doing this a few times you see how you should approach them. The first few times they reacted like I was about to attack them as I was inept. Then you see that a smile and non threatening posture puts them at ease. Then I progressed it to chatting to them instead of asking for the time or using the time thing as an opening to talk more.

The main thing is don't think. Just do it.As I said, You sound ahead of where I was as you are talking to girls. You just now talk to girls you don't know already.

The one thing I have learned is looks don't really matter. I don't mean you make no effort. If you intend on chatting up women then get ready like a night out. I mean women will give you a chance once you are smiling and have something interesting to say. You sound like me where I knew I would be okay once I got on the date but getting there was a mystery! I knew I would treat women well and not mess them about but couldn't get to that point.

So don't think any more. Start doing it. Tonight is Friday night. Get out there and go up to women. If you are really really nervous ( like I was) Go out by yourself as then no one sees your rejections. I did this for a while to get confidence up.People think that that they cant go by themselves but no one really cares. I just said my friends went home early as they couldn't handle their drink but I could. Straight away gets a laugh usually!! Then its just you chatting to her and/or friends.

Or else go out Tomorrow night. Or else sunday afternoon at a nearby shopping centre, you should be chartting up women!! He who hesitates.......

S.G.M.

Thanks TWF.
All great advice. Now to put it into action.

Honeydew3456

S.G.M. wrote: »

Thanks TWF.
All great advice. Now to put it into action.

Hi S.G.M.

I think it might be a good idea to set yourself a little test. If you are out this weekend try chatting to someone that catches your eye and see how it goes. Set yourself a goal of doing it just the once and who knows you might enjoy it so much that you will be working the entire room by the end of the night :-)

Honestly, you come across on here as very friendly, positive and chatty so translate that in real life and see how it goes. Get out of your head about it and just be you. Nothing to lose and everything to gain!

Online is fine only as a tool to meet in person because everything can change then. You may not fancy the person as much as you thought you did. As I am sure you know, unless you get a date in the bag it can all go from 100mph to nothing very fast online.

Best of luck. I am sure you will ace it!

S.G.M.

Thanks Honeydew. Appreciate the input.

S.G.M.

Another question I have about dating, I might ask when I have ye here is; I've an issue with asking out a woman I know if I'm not 100% about her. Like there are women I fancy but I'm not sure if it's enough to ask out. Like in the past I've really really liked women and knew that I really wanted to get to know them but there are women who I'm intrigued by but don't grab me as much as the aforementioned.
Like for example, I work with one woman, I know another through a friend. These can be sticky situations if not handled properly.
A part of me hates the idea of hurting a woman if she is into me and I don't feel the same in the long run. I know I'm probably overthinking here and need to start doing more and thinking less.

The White Feather

You kind of answered your own question there! Less thinking and just go with the flow. You won't know if you like her or she likes you until you are on a date or two. You need to get on dates and see what happens. Some will work and others won't. That's the way it goes.

Never go near anyone you work with as that opens up a whole can of problems. Friends are tricky but once you are honest it's ok.

Just don't play games and go with the flow. Don't mind what ifs.

I've been on both sides. I liked her more and with other women she likes me more. It's what happens. Main thing is to move on quickly either way.

Again this all theory. Just get on dates and it will all come to you naturally. The main thing is start getting out there talking to women and going on dates or you get caught up in all theory and no practical knowledge.

Honeydew3456

S.G.M. wrote: »

Another question I have about dating, I might ask when I have ye here is; I've an issue with asking out a woman I know if I'm not 100% about her. Like there are women I fancy but I'm not sure if it's enough to ask out. Like in the past I've really really liked women and knew that I really wanted to get to know them but there are women who I'm intrigued by but don't grab me as much as the aforementioned.

Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about that. It's all part of the dating game and you work through it as you get to know them more. For example, I have been on dates with guys I wasn't too bothered about initially but ended up having great fun and being really into them. A few more dates down the line and things fizzle out and that's fine too. Just be honest with yourself and your date at all times along the way.

Enjoy it all. Enjoy getting to know them. Enjoy going somewhere nice /different with them. There are people that can come into our lives for 5 days, or 5 months or 5 years etc and there is always a positive to grab from those encounters.

S.G.M.

Honeydew3456 wrote:

Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about that. It's all part of the dating game and you work through it as you get to know them more. For example, I have been on dates with guys I wasn't too bothered about initially but ended up having great fun and being really into them. A few more dates down the line and things fizzle out and that's fine too. Just be honest with yourself and your date at all times along the way.

Enjoy it all. Enjoy getting to know them. Enjoy going somewhere nice /different with them. There are people that can come into our lives for 5 days, or 5 months or 5 years etc and there is always a positive to grab from those encounters.

Thanks Honeydew. I'm so used to but taking that risk that its just second nature not to.
I wudnt be nervous going on a date which is good so I can relax and enjoy it. I just have to keep reminding myself that it's how dating is done. You put yourself out there and get to know people. Some will be good, some not so good.

LegacyUser

If you joke all the time ALL the time no one will take you seriously. If you want someone you need to let them know immediately it is not friendship you are interested in. You need to grab opportunities like you would a bundle of fifty euro notes. Wishy washy i like her i dont like her i don't like her enough. I don't want to to hurt her in some hypothetical universe she likes me on will get you nowhere.

I would not mind what women say if they don't want you. They will give you some fob off.

LegacyUser

Hey OP, there's a book called Models by Mark Manson - it's written exactly for men like who you are struggling a bit with knowing how to act or what to do to attract women and get dates. Don't worry, it's not a pick-up artist book, it's just filling in gaps in your social and romantic skills that you haven't learned yet and is a sensible guide for men who genuinely just want to make a connection and meet someone in a healthy way.

I'm a woman, but I read the book anyway as it was pretty insightful on some interesting things like vulnerability and attraction - it was a great read.

He also has a website with some solid articles on it, if you want to get a taste of his type of advice - I don't know if I can post links, but if you just google his name you'll find it.

You've gotten some solid advice here, so I don't think I have anymore to add to it but I hope you enjoy yourself in 2020 and make some great connections!

ILoveYourVibes

S.G.M. wrote: »

Another question I have about dating, I might ask when I have ye here is; I've an issue with asking out a woman I know if I'm not 100% about her. Like there are women I fancy but I'm not sure if it's enough to ask out. Like in the past I've really really liked women and knew that I really wanted to get to know them but there are women who I'm intrigued by but don't grab me as much as the aforementioned.
Like for example, I work with one woman, I know another through a friend. These can be sticky situations if not handled properly.
A part of me hates the idea of hurting a woman if she is into me and I don't feel the same in the long run. I know I'm probably overthinking here and need to start doing more and thinking less.

Ask her ...you might make a friend if you don't like her romantically.

S.G.M.

DatingGuest wrote:

You've gotten some solid advice here, so I don't think I have anymore to add to it but I hope you enjoy yourself in 2020 and make some great connections!

Thank you and I've just ordered that book

S.G.M.

ILoveYourVibes wrote:

Ask her ...you might make a friend if you don't like her romantically.

Very true. I got chatting to the woman at work this week which was really nice and we get on well but I've gotten on well before with women who had absolutely no interest in me. It's to take the risk to ask her out is the question. Like in the past, certain things have made me think she may like me but I've been doubting that more recently. Sick of asking women out and getting turned down ha

Emme

Be yourself. You'll have to fight women off in a few years time if you don't get into a long term relationship in the meantime.

Sephiroth_dude

@TheWhiteFeather great advice!

Ask them out asap otherwise it will turn into pen pal situation, I'm in this situation *doh* ATM I'm gonna bite the bullet and ask her out tonight!

S.G.M.

Emme wrote:

Be yourself. You'll have to fight women off in a few years time if you don't get into a long term relationship in the meantime.

Thank you. Very kind thing to say.

Sephiroth_dude wrote:

Ask them out asap otherwise it will turn into pen pal situation, I'm in this situation *doh* ATM I'm gonna bite the bullet and ask her out tonight!

Best of luck, ya have to let us know how you got on.

JackTaylorFan

Do you really want a woman who is not attracted to wholesome qualities. Your friend who gave you that advice sounds like she likes drama in her life

S.G.M.

JackTaylorFan wrote:

Do you really want a woman who is not attracted to wholesome qualities. Your friend who gave you that advice sounds like she likes drama in her life

True. I think she meant too wholesome as in not giving off enough of an exciting vibe.

JackTaylorFan

S.G.M. wrote: »

True. I think she meant too wholesome as in not giving off enough of an exciting vibe.

Probably means you don't make girls wet - in the crudest terms possible.