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What do you have to earn to be rich?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    beejee wrote: »
    Ah, what I mean is annual interest.

    Quick crappy example...

    1 million quid in a bank, not touched or needed, earning 5% interest interest after dirt, giving 50k a year for essentially nothing.

    That's very comfortable living, forget all this nonsense about equities and property prices that change with the wind. Rock solid money not going anywhere.

    A simplistic example, but that's my measure of "being very well off".

    Which savings account is that?:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Which savings account is that?:confused:

    I know, I know :p

    Simple example, that's all.

    That said, if you turn up with enough dough to a prospective bank you'd be surprised about flexibility on basics like interest rates. I once saw someone negotiate, quite rapidly, from 5% to 8%, and it wasn't 7 figures or anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    beejee wrote: »
    I know, I know :p

    Simple example, that's all.

    That said, if you turn up with enough dough to a prospective bank you'd be surprised about flexibility on basics like interest rates. I once saw someone negotiate, quite rapidly, from 5% to 8%, and it wasn't 7 figures or anything.

    I would be surprised and even if that's true, pretty bad return on locking up a million quid for a year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,764 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    beejee wrote: »
    Ah, what I mean is annual interest.

    Quick crappy example...

    1 million quid in a bank, not touched or needed, earning 5% interest interest after dirt, giving 50k a year for essentially nothing.

    That's very comfortable living, forget all this nonsense about equities and property prices that change with the wind. Rock solid money not going anywhere.

    A simplistic example, but that's my measure of "being very well off".


    No Irish bank is offering anything that high. More like 0.3%


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    beejee wrote: »
    I know, I know :p

    Simple example, that's all.

    That said, if you turn up with enough dough to a prospective bank you'd be surprised about flexibility on basics like interest rates. I once saw someone negotiate, quite rapidly, from 5% to 8%, and it wasn't 7 figures or anything.

    Gotta echo whats already being said. No bank is offering that. Also on substantial amounts banks are actually charging customers to keep their money with them. So your actually losing money.
    Reason being its relatively easy for banks to borrow money themselves now and they aren't reliant on money from their customers nearly as much as they might have been in the past.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Ush1 wrote: »
    I would be surprised and even if that's true, pretty bad return on locking up a million quid for a year.

    To all the comments above, that negotiation was more than a few years ago, about the year 2000?maybe 90's.

    Anyway, to the quoted above, I don't buy into this idea that money is wasted unless it's invested or traded. Sure, gamble a bit, no problem.

    But even taking into account inflation, rock solid money is far more attractive to me in such a turbulent economy (as in, the last couple decades).

    Spare money, emphasis on "spare", and then living reasonably off interest is the golden goal for me, and others too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    seannash wrote: »
    Gotta echo whats already being said. No bank is offering that. Also on substantial amounts banks are actually charging customers to keep their money with them. So your actually losing money.
    Reason being its relatively easy for banks to borrow money themselves now and they aren't reliant on money from their customers nearly as much as they might have been in the past.

    I agree, to an extent, but roll up to the right place with the right amount, and it's far more attractive than money markets. Anyway, to each their own experience :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    You only need to look at the thread on Prize Bonds here, where people have massive amounts in Prize Bonds, to know theres not many options for savings or lump sums.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    beejee wrote: »
    To all the comments above, that negotiation was more than a few years ago, about the year 2000?maybe 90's.

    Anyway, to the quoted above, I don't buy into this idea that money is wasted unless it's invested or traded. Sure, gamble a bit, no problem.

    But even taking into account inflation, rock solid money is far more attractive to me in such a turbulent economy (as in, the last couple decades).

    Spare money, emphasis on "spare", and then living reasonably off interest is the golden goal for me, and others too.

    Not sure what you mean by "rock solid money". You mentioned inflation yourself but apart from that there's limits to Irish banks deposit guarantee.

    With a million there is a number of investment funds you could buy into to and be fairly sure of a decent return.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Not sure what you mean by "rock solid money". You mentioned inflation yourself but apart from that there's limits to Irish banks deposit guarantee.

    With a million there is a number of investment funds you could buy into to and be fairly sure of a decent return.

    "Fairly sure"means little in terms of finance, it's the equivalent of saying "maybe true". There are good bets, of course, but make no mistake that they are all bets at the end of the day.

    As for guarantee limits and all that, it's getting down to minutiae, and I'm only posting a general idea on a message board. It can all be done, if done right, inflation can be beaten too in very simple ways without betting.

    Bear in mind this isn't the average amount of money in a regular savings account, it's large scale. My point being that "large" may not be as large as first thought. Anyway, that's all there is to say at this level :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    beejee wrote: »
    "Fairly sure"means little in terms of finance, it's the equivalent of saying "maybe true". There are good bets, of course, but make no mistake that they are all bets at the end of the day.

    As for guarantee limits and all that, it's getting down to minutiae, and I'm only posting a general idea on a message board. It can all be done, if done right, inflation can be beaten too in very simple ways without betting.

    Bear in mind this isn't the average amount of money in a regular savings account, it's large scale. My point being that "large" may not be as large as first thought. Anyway, that's all there is to say at this level :)

    It means about as much as "rock solid money". Deposit guarantee limits aren't minor details, I don't think you've thought this through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    beejee wrote: »
    I agree, to an extent, but roll up to the right place with the right amount, and it's far more attractive than money markets. Anyway, to each their own experience :)

    Im gonna say it again its not true. Why would a bank pay you 5% for yoir 1 million when they can borrow 1 million easily for a fraction of that interest rate.
    I don't care where you rock up to, its not happening


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Ush1 wrote: »
    It means about as much as "rock solid money". Deposit guarantee limits aren't minor details, I don't think you've thought this through.

    No, I don't agree.

    To bring it down to micro scale, a 50 euro note in my wallet is relatively "rock solid" versus the 50 quid someone owes you.

    Besides that, yes, guarantee limits are minutiae in terms of messages on an Internet forum.

    And no, I have thought it through, long, long before posting a general message on an Internet forum all of 20 minutes ago.

    I'm more than happy with my own personal finances and how I conduct.

    If you want details, hire a financial advisor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    seannash wrote: »
    Im gonna say it again its not true. Why would a bank pay you 5% for yoir 1 million when they can borrow 1 million easily for a fraction of that interest rate.
    I don't care where you rock up to, its not happening

    Look, it's as simple as this. I am going off lived experience with specific examples of which I alluded to one single event.

    Think about your accusation for a nano second: is it likely that some randomer decided to lie anonymously on the Internet about something so ludicrously specific and trite, or is it more likely that you can't believe something (admittedly vague) because you haven't experienced it yourself?

    You believe whatever you like, I know what I know.

    Annnnnnd.. Making enough interest to equal the average industrial wage or thereabouts is my personal idea of being very well off. That's as complicated as it gets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    beejee wrote: »
    No, I don't agree.

    To bring it down to micro scale, a 50 euro note in my wallet is relatively "rock solid" versus the 50 quid someone owes you.

    Besides that, yes, guarantee limits are minutiae in terms of messages on an Internet forum.

    And no, I have thought it through, long, long before posting a general message on an Internet forum all of 20 minutes ago.

    I'm more than happy with my own personal finances and how I conduct.

    If you want details, hire a financial advisor.

    Details of what, you're coming out with off the wall stuff.

    I'd be surprised if you ever have access to a million euro, but should you ever, best of luck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    beejee wrote: »
    Look, it's as simple as this. I am going off lived experience with specific examples of which I alluded to one single event.

    Think about your accusation for a nano second: is it likely that some randomer decided to lie anonymously on the Internet about something so ludicrously specific and trite, or is it more likely that you can't believe something (admittedly vague) because you haven't experienced it yourself?

    You believe whatever you like, I know what I know.

    Annnnnnd.. Making enough interest to equal the average industrial wage or thereabouts is my personal idea of being very well off. That's as complicated as it gets.

    :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Ush1 wrote: »
    :pac:

    :)

    The point being, if you're intent on talking bullshoite, you go big.

    The likes of "I'm a multi millionaire!" versus "you can negotiate interest rates in specific circumstances"

    I mean, you'd need to have some lacking imagination for something of the sort :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭machaseh


    Rich. Why rich? Why do you need to be rich? To me, 'rich' is having MORE than most people you see around you. Why do you need MORE? More more more more. This is what has turned our world to sh*t. Instead you should be focused on: what do you NEED?

    What I consider necessary for a comfortable lifestyle for myself as a single person (no relationship, no kids, no pets) would be the following:

    - permanent position in job (got it)
    - my own small studio or 1 bed apartment for max 1/3rd of my wage (can't afford it, have to share mine with someone else)
    - access to proper public transportation (got it as I live in town) + means to afford the occasional taxi (got it, although it gets too expensive very fast) OR access to a small car (dont need one and due to disability I cant drive anyway)

    That is literally all I need. Sadly, in Dublin I am unable to afford this. I have to live in a shared apartment, despite having a pretty good job which earns close to the Median wage here in ireland. Why am I unable to afford me own gaff despite having a good job?

    The answer is because the capitalist system has failed us. There is not enough (read zero) incentive for commercial developers to build new affordable housing; only luxury housing is deemed profitable enough. There is also not enough incentive for the government to build Social Housing because the legislation forcing them to do that is lacking. Clearly something in our system needs to change in order to solve the housing crisis, but with all the TDs being landlords I don't see it happening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Pooinloo wrote: »
    Not talking about legacy wealth, but what income brackets correspond to being rich/poor in Dublin? I'd say by household it's something like this:

    Dole - 30k: Poor
    30k - 55k: Sort of poor
    55k-75k: lower middle
    75k-90k: middle of the pack
    90k-115k: upper middle
    115k-170k: fairly well off
    170k+: rich

    Income means very little

    All about assets/savings that you could cash out

    1k -20k - poor, week to week living

    20k -50k - pretty poor, can't do much, maybe nice car or holiday for cash, deposit for house etc

    50k- 150k - middle, good rainy day fund, cash to help kids college, nice car etc if you want, some small investment possible

    150k-600k - middle upper, doing well, can invest in property, losing job not a disaster plenty of savings/assets

    600k-1m - Well off, loads of savings/assets

    1m+ - Rich


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    beejee wrote: »
    :)

    The point being, if you're intent on talking bullshoite, you go big.

    The likes of "I'm a multi millionaire!" versus "you can negotiate interest rates in specific circumstances"

    I mean, you'd need to have some lacking imagination for something of the sort :p

    Its the interest rates your quoting thats unbelievable. Google banks charging millionaires for deposits and youll get a number of results that will show you im right. And even if you find a bank which doesnt nobody will negotiate up to 5%.
    The days of people winning the lotto and living off the interest are long over.
    Why would anyone risk money on stocks when they can just have the bank give them money at zero risk
    You should let Warren Buffet in on your money making idea


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    seannash wrote: »
    Its the interest rates your quoting thats unbelievable. Google banks charging millionaires for deposits and youll get a number of results that will show you im right. And even if you find a bank which doesnt nobody will negotiate up to 5%.
    The days of people winning the lotto and living off the interest are long over.
    Why would anyone risk money on stocks when they can just have the bank give them money at zero risk
    You should let Warren Buffet in on your money making idea

    You have to diversify

    A mixute of property, stocks, cash savings, online businesses etc

    That's what I would do anyway if I won the lotto


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    seannash wrote: »
    Its the interest rates your quoting thats unbelievable. Google banks charging millionaires for deposits and youll get a number of results that will show you im right. And even if you find a bank which doesnt nobody will negotiate up to 5%.
    The days of people winning the lotto and living off the interest are long over.
    Why would anyone risk money on stocks when they can just have the bank give them money at zero risk
    You should let Warren Buffet in on your money making idea

    A few times, I already stated that the 5% to 8% was quite a while back. The principle still stands.

    More generally speaking, I copped on a long time ago that any idea/method/strategy that is widely available on the Internet, then it's already sown up. It's the lamentable "sheeple" thing, if everyone is doing it, it's not worth doing. And that goes beyond finances, it applies to most everything.

    It's akin to buffets oft-quoted "be fearful when others are optimistic, be optimistic when others are feaeful", or however it goes.

    Hence the incredulity at my simple statement on interest rates. "I couldn't find such a thing on the Internet (or life experience), along with everyone else on planet earth, so I don't believe it's possible"

    Again generally, it's like people selling" schemes" and plans on how to make money. The simple question is always "why?" why would you sell an idea on how to make money when you could be just doing it yourself?

    Common knowledge is common, beaten to death and dried up as a resource for innovation and "getting ahead".

    What else can be said?


  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭machaseh


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Income means very little

    All about assets/savings that you could cash out

    1k -20k - poor, week to week living

    20k -50k - pretty poor, can't do much, maybe nice car or holiday for cash, deposit for house etc

    50k- 150k - middle, good rainy day fund, cash to help kids college, nice car etc if you want, some small investment possible

    150k-600k - middle upper, doing well, can invest in property, losing job not a disaster plenty of savings/assets

    600k-1m - Well off, loads of savings/assets

    1m+ - Rich

    You mean the amount of savings that you have? Is that minus debt?

    Because in that case I am going to stay poor for the rest of my life, as I have almost 20k in student debt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    machaseh wrote: »
    You mean the amount of savings that you have? Is that minus debt?

    Because in that case I am going to stay poor for the rest of my life, as I have almost 20k in student debt.

    Yes minus debt

    Yes you might be poor for a while unfortunately until that's paid off

    Most are until they are 60 when mortgage is paid off and they finally have an asset, but then they are too old to physically work, need to think about not physically working when your young


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Pooinloo wrote: »
    That's basically what the thread is asking you to do

    not really. the threads about money


  • Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭2lazytogetup


    for me to consider someone rich -

    1. they dont think twice about buying a brand new car.
    2. dont check the prices on the menu in a restaurant. they may moan about a bill of 200euros to themselves
    3. designer clothes, would never shop in dunnes or penneys
    4. at least 3 foreign holidays a year. pick their holidays based on dates that are convenient, not on prices. wouldnt fly ryanair
    5. their adult teenagers have cars
    6. adult teenagers's college and living expenses are not a worry.
    7. could afford a house cleaner, but might not want the hassle of it
    8. shop in avoca or equivalent regularly enough.
    9. good health insurance, AA membership for their car
    10. they have a holiday home or a second home that they rent out.
    11. they dont bother comparing the prices of goods as they are money rich, but time poor. Ie just go up to harvey norman/ powercity to see what tvs they have, wouldnt go to both.
    12. gym membership, tennis club, golf club memberships
    13. kids in private secondary school.

    id say a family would need to make at least 100k after tax (140k before tax) a year to be rich. even if they have a massive mortgage on a south dublin house, they are still rich, they are just plugging their money into their house.

    so would need to be a director, or an IT specialist. So a teacher/garda/nurse would never be considered rich unless they inherit or win the lotto.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 48 Pooinloo


    maccored wrote: »
    not really. the threads about money

    The thread asks what level of income makes someone rich. Learn to read good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    for me to consider someone rich -

    1. they dont think twice about buying a brand new car.
    2. dont check the prices on the menu in a restaurant. they may moan about a bill of 200euros to themselves
    3. designer clothes, would never shop in dunnes or penneys
    4. at least 3 foreign holidays a year. pick their holidays based on dates that are convenient, not on prices. wouldnt fly ryanair
    5. their adult teenagers have cars
    6. adult teenagers's college and living expenses are not a worry.
    7. could afford a house cleaner, but might not want the hassle of it
    8. shop in avoca or equivalent regularly enough.
    9. good health insurance, AA membership for their car
    10. they have a holiday home or a second home that they rent out.
    11. they dont bother comparing the prices of goods as they are money rich, but time poor. Ie just go up to harvey norman/ powercity to see what tvs they have, wouldnt go to both.
    12. gym membership, tennis club, golf club memberships
    13. kids in private secondary school.

    id say a family would need to make at least 100k after tax (140k before tax) a year to be rich. even if they have a massive mortgage on a south dublin house, they are still rich, they are just plugging their money into their house.

    so would need to be a director, or an IT specialist. So a teacher/garda/nurse would never be considered rich unless they inherit or win the lotto.

    A cleaner once a week is 40-50 quid


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    for me to consider someone rich -

    1. they dont think twice about buying a brand new car.
    2. dont check the prices on the menu in a restaurant. they may moan about a bill of 200euros to themselves
    3. designer clothes, would never shop in dunnes or penneys
    4. at least 3 foreign holidays a year. pick their holidays based on dates that are convenient, not on prices. wouldnt fly ryanair
    5. their adult teenagers have cars
    6. adult teenagers's college and living expenses are not a worry.
    7. could afford a house cleaner, but might not want the hassle of it
    8. shop in avoca or equivalent regularly enough.
    9. good health insurance, AA membership for their car
    10. they have a holiday home or a second home that they rent out.
    11. they dont bother comparing the prices of goods as they are money rich, but time poor. Ie just go up to harvey norman/ powercity to see what tvs they have, wouldnt go to both.
    12. gym membership, tennis club, golf club memberships
    13. kids in private secondary school.

    id say a family would need to make at least 100k after tax (140k before tax) a year to be rich. even if they have a massive mortgage on a south dublin house, they are still rich, they are just plugging their money into their house.

    so would need to be a director, or an IT specialist. So a teacher/garda/nurse would never be considered rich unless they inherit or win the lotto.

    That lifesytle would require way more than 100k after tax, more like 300k


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Stheno wrote: »
    Which is why cash should be outlawed for taxi fares

    And what about the people who prefer to pay cash, like the elderly and pensioners, you'd like them to not go out I suppose?


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