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Does anyone know what did Ireland do to improve on gender gap recent year ?

  • 23-12-2019 10:12pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    Seeing Ireland is 7th out of 10 in this top ranking countries considered to be closest to achieve gender equality, link
    - benchmarking looked at health, education, work and politics.

    Other countries from Northern Europe, or NZ, seem pretty much few levels above than we are, and so would assume have a well deserved place.

    But ... does anyone have any idea what did Ireland do recently to improve on gender gap ?

    I.e. on same page, only 17.6 % women in companies' boards of directors => average ... like everything else around here on this subject, or no ?


«1345678

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And I wish you a Merry Christmas, too!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    It's big business for some that a gender pay gap exists so that certain groups retain funding. In addition, CVs need to be padded for certain individuals with projects related to the area.

    The Central Bank Gender Pay Gap Report 2019 and PwC Gender Pay Gap Report 2019 (search via Google for the PDFs).

    Central Bank said it decreased by 0.3% to 2.4% in 2019. At this rate, it won't exist in less than a decade. It's not a non-issue in Ireland but we are extremely progressive and are heading in the right direction so we don't have to feel bad at where we are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Can someone post me a direct example of where in Ireland for the exact same job a woman gets paid less than a man?

    Please post examples...
    Eg in civil service position of equal grade, or on the assembly line in a factory doing the same thing or working in the supermarket, both doing the same job. Or a male nurse vs female nurse doing same job? Teacher pay different for male vs female teacher in same school? Female accountant in a company doing same hours, same work getting paid less? Etc etc. This is for my education purposes.

    IF this is really happening I will be quite cross and fully on board the project of agitating for equal pay. Really I will, because it would be disgraceful. I would be a good ally fir the cause as I can be quite determined, so show me the proof please. Same job, same work, same hours, different pay.

    If it is not happening then I will not care. But I will wonder briefly once more why there is lying about the gender pay gap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    looking at gender pension gap across EU - page 6 on this report for 2017 - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2019/631033/IPOL_BRI(2019)631033_EN.pdf
    at 30.1 %, Ireland is below average (35.7 %).

    what is interesting is that countries from eastern europe take the lead on this one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭US2


    Gynoid wrote: »
    Can someone post me a direct example of where in Ireland for the exact same job a woman gets paid less than a man?

    Please post examples...
    Eg in civil service position of equal grade, or on the assembly line in a factory doing the same thing or working in the supermarket, both doing the same job. Or a male nurse vs female nurse doing same job? Teacher pay different for male vs female teacher in same school? Female accountant in a company doing same hours, same work getting paid less? Etc etc. This is for my education purposes.

    IF this is really happening I will be quite cross and fully on board the project of agitating for equal pay. Really I will, because it would be disgraceful. I would be a good ally fir the cause as I can be quite determined, so show me the proof please. Same job, same work, same hours, different pay.

    If it is not happening then I will not care. But I will wonder briefly once more why there is lying about the gender pay gap.

    There is no examples.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    mvl wrote: »
    Seeing Ireland is 7th out of 10 in this top ranking countries considered to be closest to achieve gender equality, link
    - benchmarking looked at health, education, work and politics.

    Other countries from Northern Europe, or NZ, seem pretty much few levels above than we are, and so would assume have a well deserved place.

    But ... does anyone have any idea what did Ireland do recently to improve on gender gap ?

    I.e. on same page, only 17.6 % women in companies' boards of directors => average ... like everything else around here on this subject, or no ?

    So we are 7th in the World on this more or less non issue.

    Move along


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭mickuhaha


    mvl wrote: »
    looking at gender pension gap across EU - page 6 on this report for 2017 - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2019/631033/IPOL_BRI(2019)631033_EN.pdf
    at 30.1 %, Ireland is below average (35.7 %).

    what is interesting is that countries from eastern europe take the lead on this one.

    Can someone asides from the individual person be responsible for their own pension or are you suggesting there is sexism around the amount of a pension people are being paid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    Can someone asides from the individual person be responsible for their own pension or are you suggesting there is sexism around the amount of a pension people are being paid.


    I would assume the pension is a reflection of the overall paye during employment. Guess it would take significant time to get the pension gap addressed...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭mickuhaha


    mvl wrote: »
    I would assume the pension is a reflection of the overall paye during employment. Guess it would take significant time to get the pension gap addressed...

    There are three types government-run Retirement Insurance system(PAYE) , 2) private company plans and 3) private individual retirement investments.
    The first one is dependent on contributions to a state. The second the wealth of the company you work for and the benefits they pay as part of employment and the third the responsibility of the individual. This system is all based on the worth or skill set of the individual , the period of time they work and zero to do with sexism. The report itself does not suggest that is because of sexism itself but rather gives a list of reasons pensions differ in general. This difference is the same between individuals in the same sex.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 600 ✭✭✭The Orb


    The gender pay gap is like Santa Claus.....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Gynoid wrote: »
    Can someone post me a direct example of where in Ireland for the exact same job a woman gets paid less than a man? .
    There are plenty of examples of unequal pay, but the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about differences in aggregate due to structural problems in the labour market that tend to disadvantage women.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/3-000-state-clerical-staff-secure-up-to-40m-back-money-in-equal-pay-case-1.1047738


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,330 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    Can someone asides from the individual person be responsible for their own pension or are you suggesting there is sexism around the amount of a pension people are being paid.

    https://www.esri.ie/news/ireland-has-a-gender-pension-gap-of-35-per-cent

    ESRI report on the gender gap in pensions. Effectively the gap in state pensions is 0% so only private and occupational pensions account for the gap.

    There are a few reasons for this (you can read the report) but it’s effectively down to historic work patterns and levels of pay.

    Remember that current pensioners include many who had to resign from jobs when they got married (the ‘marriage bar’ only lifted in 1973).

    So while the pensions themselves aren’t ‘sexist’, there were clearly gender related reasons why many pensioners couldn’t earn as much as men, and why most jobs with established occupational pensions went to men too

    This continues to change thankfully


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    There are three types government-run Retirement Insurance system(PAYE) , 2) private company plans and 3) private individual retirement investments.
    The first one is dependent on contributions to a state. The second the wealth of the company you work for and the benefits they pay as part of employment and the third the responsibility of the individual. This system is all based on the worth or skill set of the individual , the period of time they work and zero to do with sexism. The report itself does not suggest that is because of sexism itself but rather gives a list of reasons pensions differ in general. This difference is the same between individuals in the same sex.

    On the matter of the pension schemes one issue I have (from personal experience) is that there is no contribution recognition from the state for the unpaid but surely valuable work of stay at home mothers. My children now contribute a lot to the state in terms of their innovation, expertise and on a mundane level big chunks of tax. I never made enough in my self employment work for a private pension plan, I had a family before child allowance payments were quite high and after 25 years raising a family I had no pension and am scrabbling now to get enough contributions. Anyway it is a side issue. It also does not fit into any modern activism agenda. C'est la vie. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There are plenty of examples of unequal pay, but the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about differences in aggregate due to structural problems in the labour market that tend to disadvantage women.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/3-000-state-clerical-staff-secure-up-to-40m-back-money-in-equal-pay-case-1.1047738

    I asked for an example of this unequal pay. You have not given one. You have spoken instead of structural issues. What are these plenty of examples of unequal pay? Please.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,330 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Gynoid wrote: »
    On the matter of the pension schemes one issue I have (from personal experience) is that there is no contribution recognition from the state for the unpaid but surely valuable work of stay at home mothers. My children now contribute a lot to the state in terms of their innovation, expertise and on a mundane level big chunks of tax. I never made enough in my self employment work for a private pension plan, I gad a family before child allowance payments were quite high and after 25 years raising a family I had no pension and am scrabbling now to get enough contributions. Anyway it is a side issue. It also does not fit into any modern activism agenda. C'est la vie. :)

    You can claim up to 12 years per child, up to 20 overall currently, if you weren’t working and bringing up children full time. They call it ‘home caring’ credits. You still the minimum of 10 years paid to qualify for this

    However whether your children are brilliant or not is (and should be) immaterial to this. Similarly the ‘valuable’ work you do (and it is) was done by many working parents too

    For many people looking after children at home is a personal choice now. And if they can afford it, good luck to them


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    mvl wrote: »
    Seeing Ireland is 7th out of 10 in this top ranking countries considered to be closest to achieve gender equality, link
    - benchmarking looked at health, education, work and politics.

    Other countries from Northern Europe, or NZ, seem pretty much few levels above than we are, and so would assume have a well deserved place.

    But ... does anyone have any idea what did Ireland do recently to improve on gender gap ?

    I.e. on same page, only 17.6 % women in companies' boards of directors => average ... like everything else around here on this subject, or no ?

    Cut the social welfare/leave on having kids. More women stay in work and climb that ladder at the same pace as the lads.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Gynoid wrote: »
    I asked for an example of this unequal pay. You have not given one. You have spoken instead of structural issues. What are these plenty of examples of unequal pay? Please.

    I linked to a case that effected 3000 people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Dodge wrote: »
    You can claim up to 12 years per child, up to 20 overall currently, if you weren’t working and bringing up children full time. They call it ‘home caring’ credits. You still the minimum of 10 years paid to qualify for this

    However whether your children are brilliant or not is (and should be) immaterial to this. Similarly the ‘valuable’ work you do (and it is) was done by many working parents too

    For many people looking after children at home is a personal choice now. And if they can afford it, good luck to them

    I could not afford it. Obviously, or else I would not scrabble now for the 10 years contributions.
    I judged as a young woman that it would be better for them in terms of their well being. My choice of course, one that causes zero regrets.
    It is still not a fashionable part of any agenda is my point. State funded creches where low paid workers care for children from infancy has been the program. Not a broader look at the nature of being human and the meaning of life, but instead crude and cruel economics ruling humanity above all else. I dont agree with it, and I see from how you put valuable in inverted commas that we do not agree with each other. And that is fine. I am merely pointing out other angles, not looking to be assessed through an empirical cost benefit analysis.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Die Hard 2019


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There are plenty of examples of unequal pay, but the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about differences in aggregate due to structural problems in the labour market that tend to disadvantage women.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/3-000-state-clerical-staff-secure-up-to-40m-back-money-in-equal-pay-case-1.1047738

    That's 22 years ago,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭ArrBee


    Considering you can choose your gender now, you could argue anyone choosing to be a woman could swap to be a man if they were concerned with any perceived pay gap.

    Surely self id law has given the power to correct any gender based society issues firmly in the hands of the individual?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,330 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Gynoid wrote: »
    I could not afford it. Obviously, or else I would not scrabble now for the 10 years contributions.
    I judged as a young woman that it would be better for them in terms of their well being. My choice of course, one that causes zero regrets.
    It is still not a fashionable part of any agenda is my point. State funded creches where low paid workers care for children from infancy has been the program. Not a broader look at the nature of being human and the meaning of life, but instead crude and cruel economics ruling humanity above all else. I dont agree with it, and I see from how you put valuable in inverted commas that we do not agree with each other. And that is fine. I am merely pointing out other angles, not looking to be assessed through an empirical cost benefit analysis.
    You mentioned it isn’t discussed in terms of pensions. I pointed out, as the home caring credits were introduced in 2018, following the introduction of homemaking scheme in 1994, that it in the world of state pension, you were wrong.

    The home caring roles are absolutely a factor in state pension reforms. In fact they’re probably the biggest factor

    As for ‘valuable’, I use the inverted commas as I believe there are many ways to be a good parent. Simply staying at home isn’t enough for me. There are numerous bad parents who stay at home and numerous parents who work and provide valuable parenting

    And for many people they simply don’t have a choice. So while I fully agree that the issue of parenting and childcare is a broad discussion that needs to be had. The current situation precludes most low/middle earners from having the choice and I don’t like people believing that working parents are lesser than those who can afford not to work and who provide their ‘valuable’ parenting full time

    I’m not suggesting you were implying this BTW, just pointing out why I used ‘valuable’.

    Now back to the pay gap...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    The usual angle here is that it is not a pay gap but a motherhood gap.
    But you can pipe down if your motherhood pay gap does not fit the program. :D Its okay, I am used to that.

    On another note I keep mis-typing pay gap with pay fap. :D:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    mvl wrote: »
    Seeing Ireland is 7th out of 10 in this top ranking countries considered to be closest to achieve gender equality, link
    - benchmarking looked at health, education, work and politics.

    Other countries from Northern Europe, or NZ, seem pretty much few levels above than we are, and so would assume have a well deserved place.

    But ... does anyone have any idea what did Ireland do recently to improve on gender gap ?

    I.e. on same page, only 17.6 % women in companies' boards of directors => average ... like everything else around here on this subject, or no ?

    Apparently they had to temporarily remove the glass ceiling to fit in that new printer, expect things to get back to normal next year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Ireland made the gender pay gap illegal in 1998 with the employment equality act and as such it has not been a problem since.

    However the primary carer of children pay gap has been closed by introducing paternity leave, women delaying having children, remote working and job sharing and a bunch of really sexist programs that allow (usually only women) to take years out of work and come back to a pay and promotion level the same as a man or childless woman who had never left work, effectively removing any disadvantage to having children and allowing this clown world to exist where people who dedicate themselves to their career or don’t have children just get kicked in the face mid way through their career.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭utyh2ikcq9z76b


    They haven't done much in the nursing and teaching sector
    Student Nurse Population is 90% Female


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A few builders started identifying as ladies I reckon..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 869 ✭✭✭carq


    i think 2020 will be the year the gender pay gap brigade will collide with ' Gender is a social constuct' brigade.
    Lots of people i think spout both ill informed views at the same time without realising the hypocrisy .

    Look forward to seeing them squirm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭tobsey


    Ireland made the gender pay gap illegal in 1998 with the employment equality act and as such it has not been a problem since.

    However the primary carer of children pay gap has been closed by introducing paternity leave, women delaying having children, remote working and job sharing and a bunch of really sexist programs that allow (usually only women) to take years out of work and come back to a pay and promotion level the same as a man or childless woman who had never left work, effectively removing any disadvantage to having children and allowing this clown world to exist where people who dedicate themselves to their career or don’t have children just get kicked in the face mid way through their career.

    Those programs don't exist. You might come back in on an equivalent pay level after maternity/parental leave, but you won't just be given a promotion.

    In almost all cases the gender pay gap isn't caused by men being paid more for the same role, it's men advancing their careers further and easier than women, usually due to having a family. You can't deny that this happens when you look at the workforce at a macro level. High level positions are overwhelmigly male dominated.

    I've seen it first hand. My wife graduated a year before me and was always one step ahead career wise. Then we got married, had three kids in four years and she's behind where she was in her career, never mind compared to me. Some of this was down to our own choices, based on how we wanted to run our family, but it was definitely the easiest choice. It should be easier for women to maintain their career progression while having a family.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    That's 22 years ago,

    It was, but unfair pay and conditions effect people all their working lives (and into their retirement). There are, of course, more recent cases (example, example, example).

    But as I said, the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about structural problems in the labour market.
    I never quite understood the knee jerk reactions some men have about the gender pay gap, like they're in competition with women but not with other men. Surely a level playing field ultimately benefits us all.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There are plenty of examples of unequal pay, but the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about differences in aggregate due to structural problems in the labour market that tend to disadvantage women.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/3-000-state-clerical-staff-secure-up-to-40m-back-money-in-equal-pay-case-1.1047738

    Or men are more likely to puck profitable jobs, see their worth in how much money they make and work longer hours


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 957 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    Phoebas wrote: »
    It was, but unfair pay and conditions effect people all their working lives (and into their retirement). There are, of course, more recent cases (example, example, example).

    But as I said, the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about structural problems in the labour market.
    I never quite understood the knee jerk reactions some men have about the gender pay gap, like they're in competition with women but not with other men. Surely a level playing field ultimately benefits us all.

    I agree there may well be structural issues - but feel there are also career/ lifestyle choices that women make that have a knock on effect on their pay. i can speak from experience i.e. the women in my family have tended to want to stay at home when kids arrived, and i've seen similar in my own workplace.

    My guess is that many men (myself included) are sceptical about the gender pay gap, and don't like being told by some women that we're benefiting from the patriarchy - as you say we're competing against men and women.

    I've been told directly (unofficially of course) when going for promotions that being a man is a disadvantage cos of pressure to promote a woman into senior roles. i assume other men have had similar experiences. This is the result of outcome based 'equality' as opposed to equal opportunity which i grew up believing was what we were all aiming for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 869 ✭✭✭carq


    Phoebas wrote: »
    It was, but unfair pay and conditions effect people all their working lives (and into their retirement). There are, of course, more recent cases (example, example, example).

    But as I said, the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about structural problems in the labour market.
    I never quite understood the knee jerk reactions some men have about the gender pay gap, like they're in competition with women but not with other men. Surely a level playing field ultimately benefits us all.


    If you take women out of the equasion, There are many valid reasons why one man could be paid more than another man in roughly the same role. What if man a is a higher performer than man b?
    What if man a is in the role 5 years more than man b and got incremental increases in those 5 years? Why should man b in either role get the same?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    Women don't get their hands dirty or risk their life.

    There's your pay gap.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    greencap wrote: »
    Women don't get their hands dirty or risk their life.

    There's your pay gap.

    Yup. Lazy ladies. They have only huffed and puffed and sweated and queezed almost every member of the species out of their lovely fannies. And the rest of them got taken out of their tummies through a slit. At reasonably great risk to all their lives. Every single time. There are also a fair amount of dirty hands involved.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Gynoid wrote: »
    Yup. Lazy ladies. They have only huffed and puffed and sweated and queezed almost every member of the species out of their lovely fannies. And the rest of them got taken out of their tummies through a slit. At reasonably great risk to all their lives. Every single time. There are also a fair amount of dirty hands involved.


    Yeah, if your shaming women/men for being born then you are kind of on the wrong path :P


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    Gynoid wrote: »
    Yup. Lazy ladies. They have only huffed and puffed and sweated and queezed almost every member of the species out of their lovely fannies. And the rest of them got taken out of their tummies through a slit. At reasonably great risk to all their lives. Every single time. There are also a fair amount of dirty hands involved.

    Unfortunately 'being born' is not considered an occupation.

    What do you do a living?
    Oh, well I get born.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭Arrival


    Gynoid wrote: »
    Can someone post me a direct example of where in Ireland for the exact same job a woman gets paid less than a man?

    Please post examples...
    Eg in civil service position of equal grade, or on the assembly line in a factory doing the same thing or working in the supermarket, both doing the same job. Or a male nurse vs female nurse doing same job? Teacher pay different for male vs female teacher in same school? Female accountant in a company doing same hours, same work getting paid less? Etc etc. This is for my education purposes.

    IF this is really happening I will be quite cross and fully on board the project of agitating for equal pay. Really I will, because it would be disgraceful. I would be a good ally fir the cause as I can be quite determined, so show me the proof please. Same job, same work, same hours, different pay.

    If it is not happening then I will not care. But I will wonder briefly once more why there is lying about the gender pay gap.

    The thing is, even comparing just using those isn't really great. You have other variables such as qualifications, the university/colleges they obtained their qualifications from, their overall grades, their previous job experience, the amount of hours worked, the performance grades received during their work, the potential differences in their salary negotiation skills (or lack of even bothering to negotiate salaries when interviewing for new jobs and raises within current jobs - seriously, this is up to yourself as an individual to improve on, it's absolutely necessary and nobody will, nor should they, hold your hand in ensuring you're paid what you're worth). Probably others I've omitted as well. Until you find two identical candidates to compare this type of comparison is basically useless because these kinds of variables will, and should, result in differences of salaries


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    greencap wrote: »
    Unfortunately 'being born' is not considered an occupation.

    What do you do a living?
    Oh, well I get born.

    It is the giving birth that is the labour. You said women don't risk their lives or get their hands dirty. Was just saying we kinda do, that's all :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭yesto24


    Gynoid wrote: »
    It is the giving birth that is the labour. You said women don't risk their lives or get their hands dirty. Was just saying we kinda do, that's all :)

    To have your own children.
    You want to get paid for that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Women are half the population on this planet, If women feel so hard done by , by men, why don't they set up their own company's ?? People can pull whatever figures they want and skew them to fit their agenda. My friend's dad was high up in a very large company , he barely ever seen he's kids , the wife left him cos he was never home. He had loads of money but a crap family life. I doubt there's too many people man or woman who want to spend 70 + plus hours a week working .


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    Gynoid wrote: »
    It is the giving birth that is the labour. You said women don't risk their lives or get their hands dirty. Was just saying we kinda do, that's all :)

    Getting cream pied is not work. (off camera)

    Unless your job title is incubator.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    greencap wrote: »
    Women don't get their hands dirty or risk their life.

    There's your pay gap.

    Female Gardaí, nurses and doctors who have to look after patients who are abusive or on drugs. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Female Gardaí, nurses and doctors who have to look after patients who are abusive or on drugs. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.

    But do they not get paid the same as males in same roles?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    mulbot wrote: »
    But do they not get paid the same as males in same roles?

    My understanding is that they do, I was addressing the comment that women don’t get their hands dirty or risk their lives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    My understanding is that they do, I was addressing the comment that women don’t get their hands dirty or risk their lives.

    Ah ok. I think that poster was referring to women who don't choose these roles as to why there are pay differences,makes sense really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,294 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    The gender pay gap isn’t women getting paid less or being discriminated against necessarily. Women take time out of their careers to have children and this reduces their earning potential over the course of their career, it slows down their career progression because they disappear for 9 months every time they have a child so they get passed over for promotions etc. This can be debated but the statistics that OP talks about reflect it and I see it happening in the company I work for, especially with women who have 2 or 3 kids in a relatively short time. That’s the gender pay gap (poor term for this purpose imo) and our government and many others are of the opinion that this is a problem that needs to be rectified.

    I don’t have much of an opinion one way or another as it doesn’t really effect me in any way and unlike most of the lads posting here I don’t feel threatened by women and don’t mind them getting a leg up. Not many female engineers anyway and I’m much better than the few that are in my company.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭Touchee


    Gynoid wrote: »
    Can someone post me a direct example of where in Ireland for the exact same job a woman gets paid less than a man?

    Please post examples...
    Eg in civil service position of equal grade, or on the assembly line in a factory doing the same thing or working in the supermarket, both doing the same job. Or a male nurse vs female nurse doing same job? Teacher pay different for male vs female teacher in same school? Female accountant in a company doing same hours, same work getting paid less? Etc etc. This is for my education purposes.

    IF this is really happening I will be quite cross and fully on board the project of agitating for equal pay. Really I will, because it would be disgraceful. I would be a good ally fir the cause as I can be quite determined, so show me the proof please. Same job, same work, same hours, different pay.

    If it is not happening then I will not care. But I will wonder briefly once more why there is lying about the gender pay gap.

    I am a female accountant, paid €5k less than my male colleague. Same qualifications and level of responsibility and experience.

    I have not mentioned it in work, because I am afraid I will be labelled as the one who screams discrimination. Maybe I am a coward, but I honestly feel that HR and boss will look at me with different eyes and will see me as a trouble maker.

    The funny thing is that the company line is that we need to support women in business, but as usual the reality is different.

    I am not quite sure how gender pay gap is calculated as a statistic, I certainly have not seen any survey requests from the CSO or anything like that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Female Gardaí, nurses and doctors who have to look after patients who are abusive or on drugs. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.

    Right there are obviously exceptions.

    Its hardly an iceberg, more a block of ice.

    The point is, rare exceptions aside, men do the dirty and dangerous work.

    Thats why men have a way higher work fatality and injury rate.

    Dangerous/dirty work is not something people take on without compensation.

    So higher pay for laboring on a roof than sitting at hotel reception.

    The pay gap is a crock of shyte.

    Its a rough job gap that exists... Women generally don't risk their ass or get their hands dirty, men do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,294 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Touchee wrote: »
    I am a female accountant, paid €5k less than my male colleague. Same qualifications and level of responsibility and experience.

    So you have the exact same position with the same responsibilities but are getting paid 5k less? If that’s true you should talk to a solicitor not your employer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 689 ✭✭✭bunderoon


    Touchee wrote: »
    I am a female accountant, paid €5k less than my male colleague. Same qualifications and level of responsibility and experience.

    I have not mentioned it in work, because I am afraid I will be labelled as the one who screams discrimination. Maybe I am a coward, but I honestly feel that HR and boss will look at me with different eyes and will see me as a trouble maker.

    The funny thing is that the company line is that we need to support women in business, but as usual the reality is different.

    I am not quite sure how gender pay gap is calculated as a statistic, I certainly have not seen any survey requests from the CSO or anything like that.

    Do you know if your male colleague asked for the raise? Is he in the job longer (yearly increments)?
    Did your male colleague possibly ask for more money when the position was offered to him after his interview?


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