Leo Varadkar post Taoiseach

Jonny one

If Michael Martin is Taoiseach in a few months time will Leo stick around leading the opposition?

Paging Jonny two, agent one has been a dismal failure.

splinter65

Jonny one wrote: »

If Michael Martin is Taoiseach in a few months time will Leo stick around leading the opposition?

I can’t see it. Look at Jeremy Corbyn there yesterday as mad as a box of frogs ranting and raving over at the government benches and them laughing back at him.
Leo wouldn’t be up for that at all.

is_that_so

Jonny one wrote: »

If Michael Martin is Taoiseach in a few months time will Leo stick around leading the opposition?

Why would he quit? The result will be tight anyway and still could go either way. It depends what platform or message both use to campaign on. We're not in Corbyn territory at all.

Yurt2

There is a big enough Coveney faction in the parliamentary party to make him the inevitable FG leader after an election defeat.

A good thing probably, Leo has been a very watery Taoiseach and a few years in most people don't know what he's about. He's an aloof CEO / managerial type. Looking at him on the television, I just don't get the sense he cares all that much - kind of like he's managing an account rather than leading a nation.

BDI

No I’d say he will take a seat on a board of a multinational company or two. Maybe give speeches at Christmas parties of vulture fund type gatherings for huge money way above market value.

Jonny one

Jonny one wrote: »

If Michael Martin is Taoiseach in a few months time will Leo stick around leading the opposition?

No. The world is his oyster.

KWAG2019

Depends on how close the result is. If he thinks he can get another shot at screwing the country even more he’ll be hanging around. Otherwise he’ll go back into General Practice.


As he has made it so rewarding and manageable.

Beechwoodspark

Yurt! wrote: »

There is a big enough Coveney faction in the parliamentary party to make him the inevitable FG leader after an election defeat.

A good thing probably, Leo has been a very watery Taoiseach and a few years in most people don't know what he's about. He's an aloof CEO / managerial type. Looking at him on the television, I just don't get the sense he cares all that much - kind of like he's managing an account rather than leading a nation.

That sums up exactly how I see him too. Thank you for putting into words that vague sense I had of him.

Loafing Oaf

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Depends on how close the result is. If he thinks he can get another shot at screwing the country even more he’ll be hanging around.

Yep, I don't think he'd be happy vacating the FG leadership without having 'won' an election on his watch.

No chance. His ego wouldn't sanction such a role.

boombang

I was a big fan of pre taoiseach Leo, but he's really shown himself to be badly lacking and I don't see how he'd have a mandate within FG to stay as leader as he's done so poorly as leader of government.

tuxy

Leo will be working in Europe if he can secure any position that wouldn't be seen as a massive step down.

is_that_so

boombang wrote: »

I was a big fan of pre taoiseach Leo, but he's really shown himself to be badly lacking and I don't see how he'd have a mandate within FG to stay as leader as he's done so poorly as leader of government.

Parties don't just change leaders for no reason. Disliking a leader is not really an excuse if the party are generally satisfied to have him as leader. A very poor election would put him under pressure but the current "fluid" state of our politics means that we too could end up like other countries in delivering a completely hung parliament. I think it's more likely that he will get another full Dail and an election and then step aside, possibly for Coveney or maybe a woman will emerge(Helen McEntee?).

boombang

boombang wrote: »

I was a big fan of pre taoiseach Leo, but he's really shown himself to be badly lacking and I don't see how he'd have a mandate within FG to stay as leader as he's done so poorly as leader of government.

Why were you a big fan?

He was a dismal failure in his ministerial roles. He has always been the personification of fur coat no knickers.

boombang

Deleted User wrote: »

Why were you a big fan?

He was a dismal failure in his ministerial roles. He has always been the personification of fur coat no knickers.

I was suckered by his "tells it like it is" persona. I gave him the benefit of the doubt over his health tenure as nothing blew up and it's a difficult portfolio (admittedly he played for time blatantly). I've seen him demonstrate insufficient leadership and substance while taoiseach and I realised I was wrong about him.

Ulysses Gaze

Brussels, the UN or head of some NGO.

Loafing Oaf

boombang wrote: »

I was suckered by his "tells it like it is" persona.

Was it not apparent that he was cultivating that persona to get himself noticed and advance his career? Okay a lot of people might have chuckled when he made the dig about Garret Fitzgerald 'writing boring articles in the Irish Times', and it's hard to imagine any other FG TD saying it, but really what is that sort of thing telling you about his suitability for high office?

tonycascarino

Retire, get a massive pension and other perks at the grand old age of 40. He will have plenty of time to meet his hero Kylie Minogue then.

is_that_so

Just by way of reference - leadership of the two main parties. Leo has only been there for 2 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leader_of_Fine_Gael

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna_F%C3%A1il#Leadership_and_president

StupidLikeAFox

Well he previously said he wanted to be out of politics by 50, distanced himself from those remarks last year but he has built an international reputation now with Brexit etc, so I'd say he would be well sought after by private business or politically in europe. He is only 40 and has reached the top of the pile in Ireland politically, does he really want to be battling out elections for the next 25 odd years? I'd say he will be out of politics by 50 as he originally said

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-regrets-saying-he-would-be-out-of-politics-by-age-51-1.3343408%3fmode=amp

Beechwoodspark

Also-the hypocrisy of him criticizing Verona Murphy.

He made some very iffy comments for publicity earlier in his career.

Fr_Dougal

Do people really want to go back to the days of Fianna F and the Galway tent?

IAMAMORON

Personally can't see ff getting into government unless they succumb to a proper coalition with fg.

I appreciate this is a varadkar bashing thread, but I cannot see anyone else being teashop after the next election.

Martin will be need to resign if anyone.

Suckit

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Do people really want to go back to the days of Fianna F and the Galway tent?

Whatever they want, I believe that it will become apparent they don't want this FG.

boombang

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Was it not apparent that he was cultivating that persona to get himself noticed and advance his career? Okay a lot of people might have chuckled when he made the dig about Garret Fitzgerald 'writing boring articles in the Irish Times', and it's hard to imagine any other FG TD saying it, but really what is that sort of thing telling you about his suitability for high office?

Fully agree that it was pretty obvious that he was doing it deliberately, but I did think he might follow through with some actual honesty and substance when in high office. Also, remember I was a big fan of his among the ranks of politicians: it's not hard to look good against the rank and file goons we have, especially in Ireland.

McMurphy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Also-the hypocrisy of him criticizing Verona Murphy.

He made some very iffy comments for publicity earlier in his career.

That's nothing, a few years before he came out, and the referendum, he was stringently against SSM.

He wasn't long outing himself and fully supporting our (SSM) when he seen which way the wind was blowing pre referendum.

KevRossi

He reminds me of some of the department managers at work. When on the floor or in team leader roles they spend all their time getting noticed by sending around emails with "let's smash the target this month, who is with me" crap. Just do it to get noticed, upper management swallow the crap, promote them and once in a position of responsibilty it's a bit bloody obvious the emperor has no clothes and they inevitably fail and move on to a similar role in another company.

Leo was loved by the media as from summer 2007 he was always ready with a sound bite. They helped pave his way upwards with Kenny, and Kenny gave him a ministerial position to shut him up.

He was found out when after a couple of months in health he said 'it can't be fixed' and this as a practicing GP. All style and soundbites, no substance.

He'll get a cushy number to go with his €100K+ pension, possibly a number in Brussels where the role is dictated to him by a few mandarins.

If he does not become Taoiseach after the next election, he is toast, will have to go to the backbenches and remain quiet (hard for him to do) and if he resigns to take up a post elsewhere he'll force a bye election that nobody usually wants. I got the impression that he built his career on becoming Taoiseach as it was a personal ambition, not a an idealistic one, he now seems bored with the position most days, the only time he looks happy is when he's been photographed by the foreign media in the company of other world leaders.

StupidLikeAFox

IAMAMORON wrote: »

.

Martin will be need to resign if anyone.

He won't want to be the only FF leader to never have been taoiseach

Loafing Oaf

KevRossi wrote: »

If he does not become Taoiseach after the next election, he is toast,

Not sure this is a given. I think most FG members will recognise they are running to stand still going into this election, given they've being in power for a decade. I doubt there'll be an immediate heave against Leo if FG are only a few seats behind FF.

IAMAMORON

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

He won't want to be the only FF leader to never have been taoiseach

All political careers end in failure. He is only popular in Cork and if I am being honest I wouldn't be backing him to get FF back in government. It would not surprise me if they lost seats and had to form a coalition with FG. If that happens he would need to consider his position as leader. You would have to think the likes of Michael McGrath are better candidates to rejuvenate a very stagnant party.

Newuseruntaken

He is lazy and has no leadership qualities at all. He hasn’t come up with a single decent idea in his time as Taoiseach. He was a complete failure as minister for health, and his time as Taoiseach has been spent repeating phrases like ‘ I have no responsibility for that area’ or ‘I can’t get involved in that’. There’s street sweepers who accept more responsibility than him.

The one time he actually took some responsibility for something, during brexit negotiations, he caused irreparable damage to Ireland by spending years saying we must have a backstop, then weeks before Johnston would have come away with no deal and lost all credibility, Leo folds and gets rid of the backstop, a classic case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Ready4Boarding

I think Fine Gael could do with some time in opposition to rehabilitate their image. Keeping Varadkar on as leader would hinder that. But, by God, please not Simon Coveney, whom I loath. I think the country, too, would benefit from a period of mature opposition.

Loafing Oaf

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It would not surprise me if they lost seats and had to form a coalition with FG. If that happens he would need to consider his position as leader.

I think he'll quit straight away if FF are not the largest party. None of the options facing the party in that situation are very appealing

IAMAMORON

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I think he'll quit straight away if FF are not the largest party. None of the options facing the party in that situation are very appealing

For me it is real coin flip how things will go the nest 3 to 4 months politically for either party.

As I see things the main hammers the opposition have are the housing crisis and the Children's hospital. How both these items get spun in the next 3 to 4 months are crucial to either. Cynically speaking they are actually not major issues for either party because the majority of their voters are not affected by homelessness and are likely to shrug their shoulders at the over budget hospital issues, I am saying that because they always have. In this context it is a coin flip as to how either succeeds here.

It could well come down to their ability to plámás their competing independent candidate, that is where the majority of the disgruntled votes are going. However this trend won't last forever and if you are an independent who is not supporting the government, you need to rely on your constituents re-electing you even if you haven't achieved any of your promises from the last election. Essentially independent seats are protest votes. Whichever party succeeds in mopping up these dead seats will be in government IMO.

Therein lies my hunch. I think that people prefer to give FG another chance than giving FF one. It was the collapse of FF after the crash which gave rise to the independent, I just can't see people changing their minds here.

touts

I believe this Taoiseach's gig is the longest job he's ever actually held in his life. He normally only spends a couple of years in a role before he gets moved on.

People say he'll go back practicing as a doctor. Well that won't happen because if you listen to him he is always careful to say he "trained" as a GP not practiced. He was elected a TD in 2007 but only "qualified" as a GP in 2010 so at least one of the two jobs wasn't being done properly over those years. If he does get booted out of office in a couple of years no hospital or GP practice would touch him as he will need very significant training and would be a huge insurance risk. I certainly wouldn't be too happy walking into my local GP and seeing him in there as a locum desperately resorting to Google to try and work out what was wrong with my sick child.

Anyway he manoeuvered himself into a position of being a serious candidate for EU Commission President when it came up a few months ago. He lost out because the other leaders knew he was a chancer with **** all experience. But my bet is he'll spend the next 4 years actively involved in EU affairs and then go for the top commission job. Remember he only took an interest in Brexit and Northern Ireland since he lost out on the commission. Then he'll hop around multinational boards and stuff and in 20 years with 6 or 7 pensions in his pocket he'll probably look for the Aras.

Bit cynical

Newuseruntaken wrote: »

The one time he actually took some responsibility for something, during brexit negotiations, he caused irreparable damage to Ireland by spending years saying we must have a backstop, then weeks before Johnston would have come away with no deal and lost all credibility, Leo folds and gets rid of the backstop, a classic case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

In fairness there is still at least some protection on the NI border issue even though the full UK wide customs area, which would have saved Irish jobs, is gone.

StupidLikeAFox

touts wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't be too happy walking into my local GP and seeing him in there as a locum desperately resorting to Google to try and work out what was wrong with my sick child.

"Well in terms of your child's sickness, we understand there is a complaint and this needs to be addressed. As a medical team it is something we will be placing a great focus on going forward notwithstanding personnel and resource constraints. I have initiated a review committee and it would be unfair of me to be make any comment until they have completed their full report. I won't be taking any further questions at this time"

Snow Garden

I think Leo has already moved on. He is only going through the motions now.

IAMAMORON

I can't help but think that there is a lot more to Leo than meets the public eye. I don't think it is possible to be complacent and then sort of meander your way to the Teashops office. It just does not happen that way.

You would have to imagine that it gives Mickie Martin such a headache when he is staring into the ceiling at quarter past four in the morning, it must feel awful. He is just unlucky, I never doubted his work ethic, but people will always tar him with the stains of the corrupted FF party of the noughties. He was minister for health when the smoking ban was introduced, he always appears to foot the blame for all the knife edge moments in Irish politics. He basically is very unlucky and you need a bit of luck in politics, especially in Ireland.

With Varadkar I always feel he creates his own luck. He always seems ahead of whatever scandal the opposition creates. He is cuter than the rest of them. Hardly remarkable mind you.

purifol0

IAMAMORON wrote: »

All political careers end in failure.

Tell that to President Higgins

IAMAMORON

purifol0 wrote: »

Tell that to President Higgins

In fairness he hasn't started falling asleep into his soup ……. yet.

You can argue the same with all elected Pressies. It is a slap on the back for popular middle men ( or women , heh heh :P).

Didn't McAleese get in for 7 years uncontested ? Hardly a victory for democracy that time.

Jinglejangle69

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I can't help but think that there is a lot more to Leo than meets the public eye. I don't think it is possible to be complacent and then sort of meander your way to the Teashops office. It just does not happen that way.

You would have to imagine that it gives Mickie Martin such a headache when he is staring into the ceiling at quarter past four in the morning, it must feel awful. He is just unlucky, I never doubted his work ethic, but people will always tar him with the stains of the corrupted FF party of the noughties. He was minister for health when the smoking ban was introduced, he always appears to foot the blame for all the knife edge moments in Irish politics. He basically is very unlucky and you need a bit of luck in politics, especially in Ireland.

With Varadkar I always feel he creates his own luck. He always seems ahead of whatever scandal the opposition creates. He is cuter than the rest of them. Hardly remarkable mind you.

Don’t be fooled by Michael.



https://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/11/so-why-did-that-money-end-up-in-your-wifes-account-mr-martin/

“So, Why Did That Money End Up In Your Wife’s Bank Account, Mr Martin?”

KaneToad

tonycascarino wrote: »

Retire, get a massive pension and other perks at the grand old age of 40. He will have plenty of time to meet his hero Kylie Minogue then.

He won't get a pension at 40.

Jamie2k9

Yurt! wrote: »

There is a big enough Coveney faction in the parliamentary party to make him the inevitable FG leader after an election defeat.

A good thing probably, Leo has been a very watery Taoiseach and a few years in most people don't know what he's about. He's an aloof CEO / managerial type. Looking at him on the television, I just don't get the sense he cares all that much - kind of like he's managing an account rather than leading a nation.

If I recall correctly Coveney almost lost his seat in 2016 but yeah he will get it if elected as Leo isn't liked by many in FG based on last contest.

KaneToad

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Don’t be fooled by Michael.



https://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/11/so-why-did-that-money-end-up-in-your-wifes-account-mr-martin/

“So, Why Did That Money End Up In Your Wife’s Bank Account, Mr Martin?”

Martin is old school FF.

What really needs to happy is a merger of the two centrist parties FF & FG. We, the country, would benefit from having a higher concentration of 'decent' politicians in the one cabinet: Pascal Donohue, Michael McGrath, Simon Coveney, Darragh O'Brien, Richard Bruton...etc

It would allow us to lose the dross that is Timmy Dooley, Barry Cowen, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Niall Collins, Michael Martin, Regina Doherty...

IAMAMORON

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Don’t be fooled by Michael.



https://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/11/so-why-did-that-money-end-up-in-your-wifes-account-mr-martin/

“So, Why Did That Money End Up In Your Wife’s Bank Account, Mr Martin?”

Sloppy enough. In 2011 they still had not really copped on how to cover up or stash their backhanders. I am amazed that he got away with that one. The party was so badly riddled with corruption at the time, he just got the shoulder shrugging treatment. Which is unusual for Martin considering how unlucky he generally is.

I think the fact that it was so blatant that people just kind of laughed and shook their heads. They had had enough at that time, he got away it because everyone assumed he had gormlessly dumped the money with his wife. It was so foolish that people assumed he was going to resign, he winged it though, fair play.

What is even more ludicrous is that EFFEFFERS don't believe the PR squad in Fine Gael will pop this up as soon as the election campaign gets tasty. What clowns.

Loafing Oaf

IAMAMORON wrote: »

What is even more ludicrous is that EFFEFFERS don't believe the PR squad in Fine Gael will pop this up as soon as the election campaign gets tasty. What clowns.

I don't remember much being made of it at the last election. Tbh the sums involved are so small, even for the time, it was always hard to build a head of steam around the story. It would probably be forgotten now if it wasn't for the opportunity it afford for quips about "the money was just resting in the wife's account."

Jinglejangle69

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I don't remember much being made of it at the last election. Tbh the sums involved are so small, even for the time, it was always hard to build a head of steam around the story. It would probably be forgotten now if it wasn't for the opportunity it afford for quips about "the money was just resting in the wife's account."

Second point in that link is interesting to.

Do you think if a current government minister ended up with a cheque in their wife’s account from a “donation” and they said they don’t know how it got there that there wouldn’t be uproar?

Loafing Oaf

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Second point in that link is interesting to.

Do you think if a current government minister ended up with a cheque in their wife’s account from a “donation” and they said they don’t know how it got there that there wouldn’t be uproar?

If it happened this year, probably, but would also apply to someone on the FF frontbench.

Jinglejangle69

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Second point in that link is interesting to.

Do you think if a current government minister ended up with a cheque in their wife’s account from a “donation” and they said they don’t know how it got there that there wouldn’t be uproar?

If I presented a cheque to a bank that WASN'T made out to MaryAnne Person, it wouldn’t be accepted.