E Bike security .....

Hamsterchops

Having recently purchased an e bike worth over €1400, my 1st mission was to make sure it was secure both at home and when parked on the streets....

My main lock (Sold Secure GOLD) is the Kryptonite New York standard with a 16mil shackle, backed up by a Bikehut 23cm D-Lock (Sold secure SILVER) + 10mil looped cable, add to this my old "armoured" combination cable lock, and I think my e bike is secure when parked in Dun laoghaire or Blackrock while I go shopping, or have lunch in a Cafe 🙂

Kryptonite goes through rear frame + rear wheel.
Additional D lock locks front wheel to frame.
Old combination lock then secures frame to pole.
Additional D lock cable keeps saddle attached to D lock!

Sounds bullet proof to me if it's locked up in the middle of a town in broad daylight, but am I right?

I keep it indoors at home.

punisher5112

Nothing is safe really, ive seen 2 bikes stolen in the middle of town and it was bright and busy.

Hamsterchops

punisher5112 wrote: »

Nothing is safe really, ive seen 2 bikes stolen in the middle of town and it was bright and busy.

By they didn't have my level of security, right!

punisher5112

Hamsterchops wrote: »

By they didn't have my level of security, right!

No crappy locks on both but don't forget angle grinders and these fellas don't care if seen or they even just cut the poles attached to.

Hamsterchops

punisher5112 wrote: »

No crappy locks on both but don't forget angle grinders and these fellas don't care if seen or they even just cut the poles attached to.

Angle grinders in broad daylight in the middle of Dun Laoghaire, would they?

Sparks, flames, smoke, grinding off the locks with electric grinders as people walk by & watch on?
You can't be serious, because if you are, I can't take my bike anywhere

rubadub

take the battery off, and the speedo too, I saw one with the speedo on recently.

A pro thief will still get through it, but hopefully a pro will cop on that it can cost more for them to get the bike going again than what they could sell it for. (new battery & speedo will cost a fortune)

Sparks, flames, smoke, grinding off the locks with electric grinders as people watch on?
You can't be serious, because if you are, I can't take my bike anywhere

Stick on a high viz jacket and nobody will bat an eyelid. Its the equivalent of hazard lights for scumbags on foot.

kirving

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Sounds bullet proof to me if it's locked up in the middle of a town in broad daylight, but am I right?

Unfortunately nothing is bulletproof, it just comes down to the effort required.

A stepladder and screwdriver will have the sign off the top of the pole in under a minute, and the bike can be lifted off. You'd be surprised how much authority a €20 hi-vis jacket buys you.

I've an expensive bike, and I just can't let it out of my sight in town. I lock it with an Abus Bordo since it's light and compact, but any lock is just a time delay really.

Yeah pull the battery. I'd imagine if the bike is too much hassle they'd know the battery is worth a bit and likley cause damage trying to get at it.

5uspect

My ebike is either locked up at home in a shed, in my office, or it’s under my arse. There’s not a hope I’d leave it outside unattended. I need it to get to and from work so I’m paranoid.

I’m lucky that I have a private office where I can keep it. I’ve seen various types of ebike parked about the university campus with the regular bikes however.

Hamsterchops

Sounds like I'll have to park it right outsider the Cafe with me in the window seat, keeping both eyes on it.

The only other security I can think of is the 'N' lock, which renders the handlebars inactive.

Basically it disconnects the handlebars from the headstock, so the bike cannot be cycled away as the bars go one way while the front wheel goes the other way

The pigeon man

Abus granite X plus 540 is a great lock. But I still don't leave my ebike in public. Get it insured aswell.

Hamsterchops

So the issue (the enemy) seems to be portable battery powered angle grinders, as I know for a fact that my New York Standard cannot by cut with bolt cutters (of any size) as the shackle is too thick @16mil.

So either I give in and don't use my e bike for what I bought it for ...... or I just go for it, and lock it up securely, where I can keep an eye on it while I munch on my lunch.

Thanks to everybody for their input so far.

tomasrojo

If you have a run-of-the-mill bike an ART *** lock and a an ART ** lock seem to be enough to make years of keeping your bike probable, provided you use them properly. A cable loop adds almost nothing though, and armoured cable locks seem to get cut quite frequently.

In fact, your New York lock is, I think, an ART **** lock, so that's excellent. I don't know much about Bike Hut locks, but you might consider getting an ART *** chain or u-lock to replace it,rather than adding more second-rate locks, since your bike was pricey to begin with and I assume has a high resale value.

http://thebestbikelock.com/ has a lot of good information. Don't think it mentions Bike Hut at all. I don't really like the look of that lock though. Some of the Sold Secure ratings are a bit generous. For example, the Bordo Granit X-plus gets a gold rating, while ART give it only two stars.

It is true that an angle grinder can get through anything, but bolt cutters seem to be the tool of choice still, so I usually consider how well a lock will withstand a bolt cutter attack primarily.

tomasrojo

Here's a report of an angle grinder attack on an Abus Granit x plus 540 that was securing an e-bike. They seem to have given up when they realised it needed a second cut.

https://twitter.com/DarHealy/status/1150178828154802178

tomasrojo

I'm not recommending this (it's sort of ridiculous), but this is a lock that makes angle grinder attacks extremely unlikely:
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a28861849/altor-saf-lock-test/

punisher5112

That's one fat lock ;-)

listermint

Could by the cafe lock . Solely used to cafe visits...

Hamsterchops

Too heavy to cycle with, hence you leave it at your destination permanently, be it a cafe, work, or wherever you visit regularly.
Sometimes you see heavy U locks & chains left at the base of street poles, presumably left there to use when you arrive on your bike.

Duckjob

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Too heavy to cycle with, hence you leave it at your destination permanently, be it a cafe, work, or wherever you visit regularly.
Sometimes you see heavy U locks & chains left at the base of street poles, presumably left there to use when you arrive on your bike.

I wouldn't leave a lock out in public like that - you never know how it might be tampered with at night. The strongest chain might have a link nearly cut though but you wont necessarily see it unless you inspect it in detail everytime you park up.

Kaisr Sose

rubadub wrote: »

Stick on a high viz jacket and nobody will bat an eyelid. Its the equivalent of hazard lights for scumbags on foot.

High vis jacket is a working permit for your average bike thief,. AKA scumbag

I would not leave an e-bike locked in a public place no mater what lock (or number of them) I had on it.

cdaly_

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Having recently purchased an e bike worth over €1400, my 1st mission was to make sure it was secure both at home and when parked on the streets....

My main lock (Sold Secure GOLD) is the Kryptonite New York standard with a 16mil shackle, backed up by a Bikehut 23cm D-Lock (Sold secure SILVER) + 10mil looped cable, add to this my old "armoured" combination cable lock, and I think my e bike is secure when parked in Dun laoghaire or Blackrock while I go shopping, or have lunch in a Cafe ��

Kryptonite goes through rear frame + rear wheel.
Additional D lock locks front wheel to frame.
Old combination lock then secures frame to pole.
Additional D lock cable keeps saddle attached to D lock!

Sounds bullet proof to me if it's locked up in the middle of a town in broad daylight, but am I right?

I keep it indoors at home.

This ("Old combination lock") is the only thing going around the pole? Sounds like an easy steal. Crack the combination lock in no time, lift bike into back of van, drive away and remove other locks in private.

Suggestion:

• Kryptonite goes through rear wheel (inside frame triangle) and around pole
• Additional D lock locks front wheel to frame and around pole / bike stand
• Old combination lock goes in the bin (it's a false sense of security)
• Looped cable goes through saddle to D lock (If the seatpost clamp is quick release. If not, you probably don't need to lock the saddle unless it's something terribly fancy and desireable).

Hamsterchops

Just to clarify, as I wasn't crystal clear in the 1st post.
The Kryptonite New York goes through rear frame triangle + rear wheel (attaching bike to pole) this is the primary lock.
Additional silver rated D lock, then locks front wheel to frame. Old thick looking "armoured" combination lock (also) secures frame to pole. Additional 10mil D lock cable threads through rear wheel & keeps saddle attached to D lock!

Sounds good to me.

darconio

And don't forget you can always be mugged

Tenzor07

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Too heavy to cycle with.

You're on an eBike! Defo not too heavy to cycle with...

Hamsterchops

The Altor weighs in at more than a stone & a half which is (over 6kg)! That's some weight to be lugging around.

The New York weighs enough as it is.

rubadub

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The Altor weighs in at more than a stone & a half which is (over 6kg)! That's some weight to be lugging around.
.

When I did lock my ebike in more risky places I had about 6-7kg of locks & chains with me. It doesn't bother me much at all, that is what I like about it. I can carry serious weight on my ebike no bother, great for shopping.

Some bolt cutters will get through the NY 16mm lock. I wish I had known about the 18mm motorbike spec version when I got mine. I knew there was an 18mm but thought it only came in a narrow U which would not have suited me.

You can see some locks tested with a manual hydraulic cutter here, the 18mm NY makes the blades on the cutter explode
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9K6rby98W8JigLoZOh6FQ/search?query=hydraulic

I am particular about what pole I would lock to aswell. Many of the wide diameter sheffield bike stands are really thin, the wide tubing actually facilitates easy cutting. I work with tubing like it in work and reckon I could get through many in 2 minutes with a junior hacksaw from dealz.

Hamsterchops

rubadub wrote: »

Some bolt cutters will get through the NY 16mm lock......

Thanks for your very good post, although I've yet to hear of any manual bolt cutters defeating the Kryptonite New York! Indeed the only reason I bought it was because I have read that it cannot be broken by manual methods.

ED E

If your bike is worth north of a grand you cannot buy a lock that will secure it
on street. Unless you want something that weighs 50KG, then maybe.

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1049206001025601536

https://twitter.com/entropicbear/status/1194286461299970048

https://twitter.com/crazyradical/status/1196475593824645120

I've considered an ebike for winter, useless to me though if I cant stop in Lidl for some shopping en route.

Hamsterchops

Just to clarify the strength of the Kryptonite New York Standard/16mil, just in case there's any confusion.

From the website thebestbikelock.com

"....for example, the Kryptonite New York Lock Standard U-lock and the Almax Immobiliser Series III chain are both 16 mm thick. So neither can be cropped by bolt cutters. But just look at the weight difference! While the Kryptonite lock is 4.35 lb (1.97 kg), the Almax is over twice as heavy at 9.15 lb (4.15 kg)."

Hamsterchops

Angle grinders are a bloody curse :mad:

tomasrojo

ED E wrote: »

I've considered an ebike for winter, useless to me though if I cant stop in Lidl for some shopping en route.

If you're only leaving the bike for twenty minutes outside a Lidl, I think an ART**** u-lock (OP already has) and ART*** chain lock would almost definitely mean your bike would still be there. Maybe throw a ringslot/ring lock in there, if the frame allows it.

I know the bike is valuable, but if you make sure the chain isn't near the ground, it's a lot of work and a lot of sparks (chain locks are supposed to be relatively hard to cut with an angle grinder anyway, compared with a u-lock), and not a very large time window.

tomasrojo

Obviously leaving it for hours unattended in a high-crime area would require a different approach. Probably not locking it there for hours, really.

Ferris

I always take my battery with me, it’s ~€650 for a new Bosch battery. Also they won’t have a charger for it. Far more likely is that it’s taken off you personally unfortunately. All you can do is insure it and mark it somehow (UV pen?, microdot? Tile Bluetooth chip?) and if someone wants to take it off you, let them have it, it’s only a bike at the end of the day and not worth coming to harm over.

tomasrojo

Ferris wrote: »

and if someone wants to take it off you, let them have it, it’s only a bike at the end of the day and not worth coming to harm over.

Poor Cathal MacCoille got hit over the head with a bolt cutter while trying to help someone whose bike was being stolen.

Duckjob

Thats the thing with eBikes - you can render them pretty undesirable by taking off the battery and the display unit (it slides off on mine).

Without those, you're probably looking at the guts of €1k or more to replace them and a new charger before you can sell it on as an ebike. Otherwise, all you've got is an extremely heavy, tanky bike.

rubadub

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think an ART**** u-lock (OP already has) and ART*** chain lock would almost definitely mean your bike would still be there.

Took me a while to cop on the *** was a star rating system.

I seriously thought it was swearing! but could not figure out the missing letters!

like "The OP is already using a big FCUK OFF u-lock"

Ferris

Duckjob wrote: »

Otherwise, all you've got is an extremely heavy, tanky bike.

God help anyone who steals a gen 2 Bosch bike without a battery, it’s like cycling through mud, they’d give up and dump it after 100M.

nikkisscy

5uspect wrote: »

My ebike is either locked up at home in a shed, in my office, or it’s under my arse. There’s not a hope I’d leave it outside unattended. I need it to get to and from work so I’m paranoid.

I’m lucky that I have a private office where I can keep it. I’ve seen various types of ebike parked about the university campus with the regular bikes however.

paranoia saves you! best security to keep it safe!

tomasrojo

rubadub wrote: »

Took me a while to cop on the *** was a star rating system.

I seriously thought it was swearing! but could not figure out the missing letters!

like "The OP is already using a big FCUK OFF u-lock"

Ha! I should have thought of that. They do write this rating on most locks now. The emerging consensus seems to be that it's a more rigorous rating system than the gold/silver/bronze one.

For example, this lock, which I'd regard as a pretty decent lock is only two stars, as you can just about see in the image:

Hamsterchops

Bicycle locks - Security ratings .....

Gold ratings ...
http://thebestbikelock.com/best-bike-lock/sold-secure-gold-bike-locks/

Silver ratings ...
http://thebestbikelock.com/best-bike-lock/sold-secure-silver-bike-locks/

KevRossi

Ferris wrote: »

God help anyone who steals a gen 2 Bosch bike without a battery, it’s like cycling through mud, they’d give up and dump it after 100M.

No it isn't, it's just a heavyish bike. I can easily cycle at a constant 22-25 Km/h with my Cube One 400, with panniers on an ordinary flattish tarred surface.

Either way I'm looking onto getting a GPS tracker on the bike, easy to change around from one bike to another as well.

Ferris

KevRossi wrote: »

No it isn't, it's just a heavyish bike. I can easily cycle at a constant 22-25 Km/h with my Cube One 400, with panniers on an ordinary flattish tarred surface.

My cube has a gen 2 CX motor which has a huge amount of driveline drag when the assist is off, cycled it 26k like that once when I forgot to recharge the battery and it was awful. I believe the later gen 3 motors have little or no drag to be fair.

YFlyer

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Having recently purchased an e bike worth over €1400, my 1st mission was to make sure it was secure both at home and when parked on the streets....

My main lock (Sold Secure GOLD) is the Kryptonite New York standard with a 16mil shackle, backed up by a Bikehut 23cm D-Lock (Sold secure SILVER) + 10mil looped cable, add to this my old "armoured" combination cable lock, and I think my e bike is secure when parked in Dun laoghaire or Blackrock while I go shopping, or have lunch in a Cafe 🙂

Kryptonite goes through rear frame + rear wheel.
Additional D lock locks front wheel to frame.
Old combination lock then secures frame to pole.
Additional D lock cable keeps saddle attached to D lock!

Sounds bullet proof to me if it's locked up in the middle of a town in broad daylight, but am I right?

I keep it indoors at home.

Did you watch the Claire Byrne show with the guys stealing the catalytic converters during daytime?

Hamsterchops

No I didn't, why?

punisher5112

YFlyer wrote: »

Did you watch the Claire Byrne show with the guys stealing the catalytic converters during daytime?

She probably stated it was settled folk the same ones dumping trash on halting sites....

tuxy

Hamsterchops wrote: »

No I didn't, why?

I don't think people who jack-up a car and get under to remove a catalytic converter using an angle grinder on busy streets during daylight hours are beyond doing something similar for a more valuable item like an ebike.

Hamsterchops

Just had a look at the clip from her show. Jacking up cars in broad daylight & cutting out the 'cat' from the exhaust system!

All one can really do is to avoid locking up your bike on quiet side streets, always have it secured in full view & on pedestrian areas (if you can).

Two good U locks at least, well placed & tight to the frame so that there's not much room for the thief to work....

Try and secure it so that the only successful method of attack would be the dreaded angle grinder, at least that way people can see, hear & smell the racket as a noisy attempt is made to nick your property.

For the 1st time I actually took my new E-bike to the town & triple locked it to a Sheffield stand right outside a shop window, fingers crossed I'll make many more trips without any hassle.

YFlyer

punisher5112 wrote: »

She probably stated it was settled folk the same ones dumping trash on halting sites....

She didn't.

boombang

Slightly off topic, but I tweeted the Dublin Stolen Bikes handle a while ago about an unlikely looking teenage rider of a Bosch e-bike on Pearse Street. Very shortly after that I got somebody castigating me for profiling teenages unfairly. I was tempted to simply tweet F*** Off in reply.

I've left notes on very scantily locked e-bikes. People seem to be taking crazy chances as far as I can see.

tomasrojo

They steal catalytic converters so they can extract the platinum, don't they? I'm not sure it's directly equivalent to stealing an e-bike, where you have to have a fully functioning bike to sell it on, and you need storage if you can't make a quick sale.

It might be more like the problem with motorbike theft, or the problem with high-end bicycle theft.

I don't have experience of e-bikes and their security problems, but there is a sentiment here sometimes that if you're bike is worth more than about €100 you can't lock it in public even with good locks. That is definitely wrong.

I don't really know what to do , though, when people buy an ok lock and then use it like this:



(White object inside lock is a note I left them, I hoped discreetly, not to draw attention of passersby, but to let them know they might be parted from their bike pretty soon if they kept locking like that.)

eeeee

MOD note: this thread is about locking bikes, e bikes in this case. It is not about catalytic converters and their theft. Any further ot posts will be deleted. Any questions PM me, do not respond in thread.