Buying 1 bedroom aparment for letting purposes- Ballymun or Tallaght Square?

John1648

P.s. friends tell me to wait 6 to 9 months, and the same could be purchased for 135, due to Brexit effects, instilling of recession, and the possible horrible news of EU adopting the single corporate tax code, which would drive away many multinationals from IE. If this last thing happens, it would be very bad news, possibly determining me to give up any idea of buying a place in Ireland ...

listermint

John1648 wrote: »

Well, nobody else showed for the viewing ...

On the other pages of the boards, the public is on the contrary, shocked that a 1 bedroom in Tallaght would cost 150 000 (as in - overpriced). These blocks were sitting empty in recession, a ghost quarter ... in 2013 they sold for 50 000 with a good deal of luck.

They have full occupancy. And most investors don't show or visit for viewings. So don't base the asking on a visit. They were bought as an entire job from nama lot which is why the price was low. There was no individual sales done with Nama perhaps if there was Nama would have got a higher yield. When I say perhaps I mean definitely

listermint

John1648 wrote: »

P.s. friends tell me to wait 6 to 9 months, and the same could be purchased for 135, due to Brexit effects, instilling of recession, and the possible horrible news of EU adopting the single corporate tax code, which would drive away many multinationals from IE. If this last thing happens, it would be very bad news, possibly determining me to give up any idea of buying a place in Ireland ...

Your friends have it got a notion of the property market in Ireland clearly. Absolute codswallop

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

There's a huge amount of apartments being built, and even more with planning or going for planning, in Citywest. It's not that far from Tallaght and has good transport options to Tallaght and Dublin.


There could be a reason why nobody is interested in a boom era apartment.

Very good point. I would rent neither in ballymun nor tallaght. My rent is 1500 next to the luas in a clean quiet estate nowhere near either areas.

I still find the price of 150k for either area difficult to believe.

John1648

listermint wrote: »

Your friends have it got a notion of the property market in Ireland clearly. Absolute codswallop

Possibly, that is why I put up the matter to the boards chat.

Myself am not sure about the real implications of Brexit on the property market in Ireland...

Plus - about the kind of overdue low of the economic cycle, or recession ... perhaps the property market only needs to grow upwards, and to never repeat the 2010 downturn ...

Some say the 2008 crisis was exceptional, and will never repeat again

BarryD2

John1648 wrote: »

Alas, I need to work on the basis of options at hand. 8% yield, only achievable in Dublin...

In a Paris suburb where I live now, I would get approx. 3 % - and do you know the French tax and bureaucratic system, as well as the crazy tenants protection laws?


If I knew a place better that Dublin, I would choose to buy there...

So basically you'd prefer to potentially screw your fellow Irish citizens because our tenancy protection laws aren't up to the standards of the continent?

Which says a fair deal about the buy to let/ rental part of the Irish property market and why Irish people are fixated on purchasing their own homes to get away from it!!

John1648

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Very good point. I would rent neither in ballymun nor tallaght. My rent is 1500 next to the luas in a clean quiet estate nowhere near either areas.

I still find the price of 150k for either area difficult to believe.

Yes, that is what I hear too, 150k too much.

Others say here that no way I could buy for 150, only 180.

On the clean and quiet, what I have seen in Ballymun and Tallaght, were clean and quiet too. Not to say that these whole regions are like this, of course ...

John1648

John1648 wrote: »

P.s. friends tell me to wait 6 to 9 months, and the same could be purchased for 135, due to Brexit effects, instilling of recession, and the possible horrible news of EU adopting the single corporate tax code, which would drive away many multinationals from IE. If this last thing happens, it would be very bad news, possibly determining me to give up any idea of buying a place in Ireland ...

I started a job 9 years ago and we got sent to Munich for the weekend for induction. One of the new hires was the new CFO, a cork man who gave a small speech about where the company was and where we were heading. He talked about the impending alignment of corporate tax rates in Europe and were that to happen the company would probably pull its financial headquarters from Ireland. Despite the global recession that year the company still hit a billion in revenue.

That was 9 years ago. Don't expect alignment of corporate tax in the EU any time soon and certainly don't count it among your numbers.

Boris and Brexit, the sterling went way up on the night of the election results but fell back into the doldrums yesterday. It won't be great for us but will be way worse for them. Maybe save the money for a flat in SoHo. That could be 150k three years from now.

randomrb

One thing to bear in mind and particularly if you are looking at the lower end of the market is the risk of the tenant not being able to pay rent and refusing to leave. It can take quite a long time to get stubborn tenants out the way the law is at the moment.

This is less an issue if you don't have a mortgage but the general point is that the figure you have for rent is not guaranteed year on year. The standard that rental accomodation needs to be kept at is also high so you have additional costs there. Its never as simple as it looks on paper

John1648

BarryD2 wrote: »

So basically you'd prefer to potentially screw your fellow Irish citizens because our tenancy protection laws aren't up to the standards of the continent?

Which says a fair deal about the buy to let/ rental part of the Irish property market and why Irish people are fixated on purchasing their own homes to get away from it!!

I hear you loud and clear ... no intention of screwing, really, I was in these shoes myself many years ago.

I am just buying from another landlord, not adding more suffering or pain ... and as long as certain fellow countrymen cannot buy (which is provisional in many people's lives), why not offering them a place to live in. If the renting option would not be there, what would people do ...

John1648

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I started a job 9 years ago and we got sent to Munich for the weekend for induction. One of the new hires was the new CFO, a cork man who gave a small speech about where the company was and where we were heading. He talked about the impending alignment of corporate tax rates in Europe and were that to happen the company would probably pull its financial headquarters from Ireland. Despite the global recession that year the company still hit a billion in revenue.

That was 9 years ago. Don't expect alignment of corporate tax in the EU any time soon and certainly don't count it among your numbers.

Boris and Brexit, the sterling went way up on the night of the election results but fell back into the doldrums yesterday. It won't be great for us but will be way worse for them. Maybe save the money for a flat in SoHo. That could be 150k three years from now.

Haha Soho idea great point:)

Why not.

I am tired of saving, want to get a stream of passive income sooner than 3 years

TheBoyConor

John1648 wrote: »

Net yearly income= 11 930 EUR. Which gives a net yield of 8%.

So the only question is Tallaght Square or Ballymun?

You are assuming the tenant pays and doesn't break stuff or wreck the place.

Are you including for property tax, insurances, maintenance and repair?
That 8% will start looking more like a minus figure fairly quickly.

John1648

randomrb wrote: »

One thing to bear in mind and particularly if you are looking at the lower end of the market is the risk of the tenant not being able to pay rent and refusing to leave. It can take quite a long time to get stubborn tenants out the way the law is at the moment.

This is less an issue if you don't have a mortgage but the general point is that the figure you have for rent is not guaranteed year on year. The standard that rental accomodation needs to be kept at is also high so you have additional costs there. Its never as simple as it looks on paper

Indeed, no mortgage in my case.

The point on the quality standards is noted, and makes good sense

John1648

TheBoyConor wrote: »

You are assuming the tenant pays and doesn't break stuff or wreck the place.

Are you including for property tax, insurances, maintenance and repair?
That 8% will start looking more like a minus figure fairly quickly.

Property tax is 250 and insurance 300, factored that in, as well as the management fees. Majour repair due to accidents will be insured for.

Then, choosing the right tenant can help. In other cities in Europe one would start at 3- 4% yield, then you start discounting the costs you mentioned... an alternative would be not to invest at all ... yet many do it...

NuttyMcNutty

There is a big development currently going on in Ballymun, might be student apartment's I think. Anyway nothing wrong with Ballymun, good bus routes to city center, near airport, and wouldn't be surprised if we ever get a metro it will be going through there.

beauf

John1648 wrote: »

H....want to get a stream of passive income sooner than 3 years

I think the value of a passive income is under appreciated.
Especially a modest one.

The value to all these one property landlords, in terms of security in retirement, or perhaps retiring early, will be missed one the population ages and we've stripped the value out of pension, and we have less tax payers in the system.

John1648

John1648 wrote: »

Haha Soho idea great point:)

Why not.

I am tired of saving, want to get a stream of passive income sooner than 3 years

Well if I had 150k to spare I can think of better investments than an apartment in Tallaght.

randomrb

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if I had 150k to spare I can think of better investments than an apartment in Tallaght.

such as?

randomrb

randomrb wrote: »

such as?

Whiskey
Wine
Shares
Peer to Peer lending.

HcksawJimDuggan

John1648 wrote: »

Yes, agree on LPT, did not deduct it.

4 different tax advisers confirmed to me that Irish and other EU nationals are entitled to tax credit on their Irish sourced income. Pro rata of course to their non-Irish income, but this is fine, it is taken into account.

Plus revenue.ie says the same on tax credit for non residents, on their website and in their Guide 45.01.01.

I had doubts on this, but all say the same - tax credit is available.

Apologies, I had taken the local tax of €250 mentioned in your OP to be LPT.

I was incorrect to state tax credits would be Nil on the assumption you are based outside the EU. You are correct that there is a pro rata tax credit available to other EU nationals but assuming (possibly incorrectly) that you are on a decent salary since you have stated you left as a result of the recession, the tax credit would be reduced greatly. If your employment income was €100k in country in which you are employed, your Irish tax credit available would be €188 as opposed to €1,650 included in your calculation in OP.

Dardania

John1648 wrote: »

Yes, agree on LPT, did not deduct it.

4 different tax advisers confirmed to me that Irish and other EU nationals are entitled to tax credit on their Irish sourced income. Pro rata of course to their non-Irish income, but this is fine, it is taken into account.

Plus revenue.ie says the same on tax credit for non residents, on their website and in their Guide 45.01.01.

I had doubts on this, but all say the same - tax credit is available.

I was eligible for tax credit when I lived abroad, per Revenue too.

Del2005

John1648 wrote: »

Majour repair due to accidents will be insured for.

Then, choosing the right tenant can help. In other cities in Europe one would start at 3- 4% yield, then you start discounting the costs you mentioned... an alternative would be not to invest at all ... yet many do it...

You might struggle to get insurance for major damage for a rental apartment. The building will be covered by the block insurance which has a huge excess. So all that you can insure in an apartment is contents and with our tenancy laws, there is effectively zero repercussions for a tenant destroying property, landlord contents insurance could be expensive.

Another thing to consider is that you will be renting to people who may be receiving HAP, will the apartment meet the standard for HAP? It's based on current regulations not when the property was built, like normal tenancies, and you won't be able to do much to make an apartment comply if it fails.

dashcamdanny

Here is the excess if a block of apartments I am involved in

POLICY EXCESSES:
€1,500 - Subsidence
€1,000 – Escape of Water
€ 500 - All other claims including Property Owners Liability

Does BER certs have to be completed for apartment rentals?

martyoo

Deleted User wrote: »

Whiskey
Wine
Shares
Peer to Peer lending.

Good job you don't have 150k!

martyoo

martyoo wrote: »

Good job you don't have 150k!

A person I know bought a bottle of whiskey, actually whisky as it was Scotch for 5 grand and sold it for 24k. There is money to be made there if you had the funds, which the OP does.

I wanted to get my dad a bottle of whiskey bottled the year he was born for his 80th birthday. Not only could I not afford one, and I had set aside hefty amount, I couldn't afford an empty bottle from that year. I did manage to get wine bottled that year for a mere 150.

Versus an apartment in Tallaght that could cause no end of head and heart ache.

John1648

HcksawJimDuggan wrote: »

Apologies, I had taken the local tax of €250 mentioned in your OP to be LPT.

I was incorrect to state tax credits would be Nil on the assumption you are based outside the EU. You are correct that there is a pro rata tax credit available to other EU nationals but assuming (possibly incorrectly) that you are on a decent salary since you have stated you left as a result of the recession, the tax credit would be reduced greatly. If your employment income was €100k in country in which you are employed, your Irish tax credit available would be €188 as opposed to €1,650 included in your calculation in OP.

Thank you, yes, all corect regarding the tax credit. It was an assumption in the formula based on zero other income, which is not the case currently. But why not moving to passive income from rents? At least for a while...

John1648

Dardania wrote: »

I was eligible for tax credit when I lived abroad, per Revenue too.

Thank you, yes, that what also other different sources told me

John1648

Del2005 wrote: »

You might struggle to get insurance for major damage for a rental apartment. The building will be covered by the block insurance which has a huge excess. So all that you can insure in an apartment is contents and with our tenancy laws, there is effectively zero repercussions for a tenant destroying property, landlord contents insurance could be expensive.

Another thing to consider is that you will be renting to people who may be receiving HAP, will the apartment meet the standard for HAP? It's based on current regulations not when the property was built, like normal tenancies, and you won't be able to do much to make an apartment comply if it fails.

Good point, did not think of such aspects re the insurance.

At least one of the 3 apts looked in good enough shape for HAP. But then also, it is not a must to rent out via the Council, to HAP beneficiaries.

manonboard

OP. Just to say I have a property beside the square. Depending on which ones you mean, if you get a good block. It's a fantastic place to live n incredibly desirable. I've lived here 10 years now n I think the area is fantastic. Super local facilities n amenities.

I know some of the blocks resident communities if you want to PM me the block i might know more about it for you.

The rent is easily as you say n the cost is also valid. I recently moved out n rent mine out. Similar numbers to you though I'm renting to a friend so slightly less portable with an easy tenant.
Just vet vet vet ur tenants to an extreme. You've all the power as the apartments are in huge demand. They tend to sell out quickly too.

There is an aversion to owning properties which is the only reason I think of for such a useful location to ever have an apartment for sale.

Hope it works out well for you.

handlemaster

OP
Did you look at D15 for investing? You could purchase a one bed apt fro less than 140k