Where are the Gardaí?

Dick_Swiveller

I was listening to a repeat of one of Joe Duffy's programmes today (yes, I have nothing better to be doing) and they were discussing an incident involving a cyclist near the Blackhorse Luas stop in Inchicore/Drimnagh. The cyclist was attacked by a bunch of youths who bashed him around for a bit and then proceeded to nick his bike.

As it happens, I travel on the Luas every weekday for work and have often seen gangs of marauding, grim faced young lads hanging around the various Drimnagh stops, intimidating ordinary law abiding citizens.

What struck me about the chap's testimony was that he had rung the Gardaí after the incident; yet they didn't arrive for 45 minutes.

So my question is:where are the Gardaí? I've been living in Dublin for 30 years and I can count on my fingers the number of times I've seen one walking about the place. It's not as if there's a shortage of gurriers around here who delight in making the lives of ordinary people a misery.

Any thoughts?

Infernal Racket

Dick_Swiveller wrote: »

I was listening to a repeat of one of Joe Duffy's programmes today (yes, I have nothing better to be doing) and they were discussing an incident involving a cyclist near the Blackhorse Luas stop in Inchicore/Drimnagh. The cyclist was attacked by a bunch of youths who bashed him around for a bit and then proceeded to nick his bike.

As it happens, I travel on the Luas every weekday for work and have often seen gangs of marauding, grim faced young lads hanging around the various Drimnagh stops, intimidating ordinary law abiding citizens.

What struck me about the chap's testimony was that he had rung the Gardaí after the incident; yet they didn't arrive for 45 minutes.

So my question is:where are the Gardaí? I've been living in Dublin for 30 years and I can count on my fingers the number of times I've seen one walking about the place. It's not as if there's a shortage of gurriers around here who delight in making the lives of ordinary people a misery.

Any thoughts?

A huge chunk of Guards retired between 2009 and 2014 and were never replaced. Add in all the specialised units and the paperwork which they are now forced to do, they spend more time in front of a computer screen than out on the street where they are needed. On average, there are roughly 1500 uniformed guards working at any one time in the whole country. A sad fact but a true fact

hmmm

Guards earn an average of 1300 euro a week (IPA report). If we're going to pay such big salaries, we can't afford to have lots of Guards. Same with nurses, teachers etc.

cal naughton

Far away!!!

Tippsman

Krispy Kreme.

listermint

hmmm wrote: »

Guards earn an average of 1300 euro a week (IPA report). If we're going to pay such big salaries, we can't afford to have lots of Guards. Same with nurses, teachers etc.

Would love to see you knock on a door late at night delivering news to parents that their son or daughter died in a car accident or was found hanging from some tree .

Big salary ... N all...

I'd say you think a CEO salary of half a mill is worth it.

Infernal Racket

listermint wrote: »

Would love to see you knock on a door late at night delivering news to parents that their son or daughter died in a car accident or was found hanging from some tree .

Big salary ... N all...

I'd say you think a CEO salary of half a mill is worth it.

Add to that the families of Guards who have lost their lives on duty. I'm sure they don't see a €1300 average as being worth it.

dhaughton99

Sitting in court waiting for judges to let scrotes off with 100 quid fine?

Tippsman

listermint wrote: »

Would love to see you knock on a door late at night delivering news to parents that their son or daughter died in a car accident or was found hanging from some tree .

Big salary ... N all...

I'd say you think a CEO salary of half a mill is worth it.

Get a different job than.

Allinall

Tippsman wrote: »

Get a different job than.

Why?

Tippsman

Allinall wrote: »

Why?

Their job is to deliver bad news at times they're paid for it.

hmmm

listermint wrote: »

Would love to see you knock on a door late at night delivering news to parents that their son or daughter died in a car accident or was found hanging from some tree .

Relax yourself. It's a simple point I'm making - we can't afford to employ more, which is why the Guards in particular are so thin on the ground. It's not the fault of the Guards there are so few of them, and it's also difficult to hire lots more.

Dick_Swiveller

Gerry G wrote: »

A huge chunk of Guards retired between 2009 and 2014 and were never replaced. Add in all the specialised units and the paperwork which they are now forced to do, they spend more time in front of a computer screen than out on the street where they are needed. On average, there are roughly 1500 uniformed guards working at any one time in the whole country. A sad fact but a true fact

Very interesting. Clearly more Gardaí are needed, but also a complete rethink when it comes to priorities.

Plumbthedepths

hmmm wrote: »

Guards earn an average of 1300 euro a week (IPA report). If we're going to pay such big salaries, we can't afford to have lots of Guards. Same with nurses, teachers etc.

Must tell my son, he's a guard and earns nowhere near that figure.

Ninthlife

Gerry G wrote: »

A huge chunk of Guards retired between 2009 and 2014 and were never replaced. Add in all the specialised units and the paperwork which they are now forced to do, they spend more time in front of a computer screen than out on the street where they are needed. On average, there are roughly 1500 uniformed guards working at any one time in the whole country. A sad fact but a true fact

1500 guards ÷ 26 counties = 57 per county approx. Take into account station/desk duty and all other duties that may be secondary but necessary to patrolling and it doesnt leave many extra bodies

That amount alone is what should be just dealing with a section of Dublin City never mind an entire county

Mr_Muffin

Has there ever been a time when gangs of young males didn't cause hassle? Many eventually grow out of it.

To answer your question, I think there's just a lack of Gardai to deal with every incident reported.

Infernal Racket

Ninthlife wrote: »

1500 guards ÷ 26 counties = 57 per county approx. Take into account station/desk duty and all other duties that may be secondary but necessary to patrolling and it doesnt leave many extra bodies

That amount alone is what should be just dealing with a section of Dublin City never mind an entire county

There are some counties that woukd be lucky to have between 10 and 15 guards out in patrol cars at any given time. The media won't tell the public that though, they much rather spit it that we have loads of Guards and don't need any more

listermint

Tippsman wrote: »

Get a different job than.

Get a guards job then. If you want what head the ball is saying is average pay.

Since apparently you seem to think it's handy . You know delivering bad news the odd time.


I dare ya.

listermint

hmmm wrote: »

Relax yourself. It's a simple point I'm making - we can't afford to employ more, which is why the Guards in particular are so thin on the ground. It's not the fault of the Guards there are so few of them, and it's also difficult to hire lots more.

Well then the service is underfunded.

Simple.

Allinall

Tippsman wrote: »

Their job is to deliver bad news at times they're paid for it.

I didn’t hear any guards complaining.

Did you?

Infernal Racket

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Must tell my son, he's a guard and earns nowhere near that figure.

It's an average figure. Some guards will earn 80 grand pet year but they do massive overtime to achieve that. Some younger Guards will only earn 30 grand pet year as they are just starting off. The average wage of these two guards is 55 grand per year. Averages are only figures used to suit a narrative at a given time

Ninthlife

Gerry G wrote: »

There are some counties that woukd be lucky to have between 10 and 15 guards out in patrol cars at any given time. The media won't tell the public that though, they much rather spit it that we have loads of Guards and don't need any more

Not only loads of them but all on 1300 plus per week..

Ive zero affiliation or connection with any political party but would strongly support one who put policing and a zero tolerance no bull**** stand against crime and a total restructure of our legal system as their #1 political promise if elected

Tippsman

listermint wrote: »

Get a guards job then. If you want what head the ball is saying is average pay.

Since apparently you seem to think it's handy . You know delivering bad news the odd time.


I dare ya.

I don't want a guards job nor would do it, it's handy,

The organisation is so bad a nordie had to be brought in FFS.

hmmm

listermint wrote: »

Well then the service is underfunded.

Simple.

Of course it is, but then there's only so much tax to go around - so decisions have to be made as to how we allocate tax. Personally I don't know why more isn't spent on policing, prisons etc, because the public are crying out for more Guards and more criminals being taken off the streets.

Odelay

listermint wrote: »

Well then the service is underfunded.

Simple.

And they should fund it with the money tree t the back of Leinster House?

Dick_Swiveller

Odelay wrote: »

And they should fund it with the money tree t the back of Leinster House?

There's plenty of money in the country.

Mantis Toboggan

67k is serious bucks salary for guards. If they weren't paid so much we'd surely have more numbers.

SEPT 23 1989

I don’t know

Maybe if I was in charge I would send the cops down to the canal dressed as cyclists for a few weeks

I would call it an undercover operation

Crazy I know

But it just might work

MaryKon

Ninthlife wrote: »

Not only loads of them but all on 1300 plus per week..

Ive zero affiliation or connection with any political party but would strongly support one who put policing and a zero tolerance no bull**** stand against crime and a total restructure of our legal system as their #1 political promise if elected

No matter what guards do, it's partially up to the judges. And the judges can't do much, as the law requires them to give anybody the most leniency possible. Plus current political and social setting. The prisons are already overcrowded so a jail sentence would only be given as a last resort. It is what it is. And in the end it's down to available money and pleasing the voting masses.

Infernal Racket

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

67k is serious bucks salary for guards. If they weren't paid so much we'd surely have more numbers.

Where did that figure come from?

Ninthlife

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I don’t know

Maybe if I was in charge I would send the cops down to the canal dressed as cyclists for a few weeks

I would call it an undercover operation

Crazy I know

But it just might work

Youd need a real cyclepath to do that..

Kivaro

Was in Limerick city during the week. The place was packed with Christmas shoppers. Across from Brown Thomas in the city centre, a stereotypical rat-like hooded creature was using a large bolt-cutters to cut the lock and chain of a bike on a bike rack. When some women on the corner spotted him getting away with this bike, they stopped him. This creature left the bike behind when he could not barge his way past the women and a young man who also got involved. He ran across the street to his other hooded friends who were laughing at the incident. Not a guard in sight. When they eventually showed up, it was 3 Guards fresh from Templemore, and one of the women in the crowd explained to them that the hooded gang across the street were "robbing the place blind". The guards gave chase. When I say "chase", I mean they walked quickly across the street; at which time the 3 thieves ran off laughing. It was a keystone cops moment.

It was then I realised how defenseless the citizens of Limerick city were. There was no one there to protect them and their property, except for themselves. In any other city in the western world, the response to this incident would have been handled differently by the police authorities. In general, there is no police deterrent on Irish streets and this emboldens the criminal element. We have to fend for ourselves, and that's an indictment of a government who do not care about its law-abiding citizens.

Mantis Toboggan

Gerry G wrote: »

Where did that figure come from?

1300 per week according to someone above?

Infernal Racket

Kivaro wrote: »

Was in Limerick city during the week. The place was packed with Christmas shoppers. Across from Brown Thomas in the city centre, a stereotypical rat-like hooded creature was using a large bolt-cutters to cut the lock and chain of a bike on a bike rack. When some women on the corner spotted him getting away with this bike, they stopped him. This creature left the bike behind when he could not barge his way past the women and a young man who also got involved. He ran across the street to his other hooded friends who were laughing at the incident. Not a guard in sight. When they eventually showed up, it was 3 Guards fresh from Templemore, and one of the women in the crowd explained to them that the hooded gang across the street were "robbing the place blind". The guards gave chase. When I say "chase", I mean they walked quickly across the street; at which time the 3 thieves ran off laughing. It was a keystone cops moment.

It was then I realised how defenseless the citizens of Limerick city were. There was no one there to protect them and their property, except for themselves. In any other city in the western world, the response to this incident would have been handled differently by the police authorities. In general, there is no police deterrent on Irish streets and this emboldens the criminal element. We have to fend for ourselves, and that's an indictment of a government who do not care about its law-abiding citizens.

You got it in one. These little rats used to fear a hiding from the Guards. Now the public cries foul if a guard lays a hand on their little darlings. General consensus among Guards now is why would they bother. Not worth losing your job and possibly facing a prosecution for laying a hand on a dirt bird

Infernal Racket

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

1300 per week according to someone above?

Again it's only am average. The commissioner earns roughly 250k per year. A young Guard earns approx 30k. Average of 140k each

Ninthlife

Ninthlife wrote: »

Youd need a real cyclepath to do that..

And some guards

hmmm

Gerry G wrote: »

Again it's only am average. The commissioner earns roughly 250k per year. A young Guard earns approx 30k. Average of 140k each

There's no point pretending Guards are cheap to hire, because then people expect to see one on every corner, and wonder where they all are. We have too few Guards. It's not cheap to hire more. Either more money is allocated to the Guards or people will have to put up with a lack of policing.

Infernal Racket

hmmm wrote: »

There's no point pretending Guards are cheap to hire, because then people expect to see one on every corner, and wonder where they all are. We have too few Guards. It's not cheap to hire more. Either more money is allocated to the Guards or people will have to put up with a lack of policing.

Very true. And the government def won't spend anymore on guards. They could reform the whole legal aid system which would pay for massive recruitment of Guards but that will never happen as the gravy train for solicitors and barristers would be affected and we couldn't have that now could we?

Mantis Toboggan

Gerry G wrote: »

Again it's only am average. The commissioner earns roughly 250k per year. A young Guard earns approx 30k. Average of 140k each

I know they work lots of overtime and have allowances for everything so it wouldn't surprise me tbh. I'd love to have been a guard. Everyday different.

Fiery mutant

I’d be perfectly happy for all the beat guards to be making 67k a year, if they were allowed to do their jobs, and not be hamstrung with beauracratic bull****.

Same for the nurses and firefighters. They are a frontline force doing a very tough job.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

There’s supposed to be 14,500 Gardai in Ireland. In 2016 Fine Gael promised to up the numbers to 15,000 though this hasn’t happened. There are not enough police.

They need to look at introducing civilian aides who are trained and qualified to handle desk duties but even then you still need the officer who was there to do the paperwork. Keeping Gardai on past 55 would be an idea, no sense losing decades of experience when they could slot into a desk job for 2-4 years extra (optional) or help train new recruits.

The closure of stations has also really affected things also. A friend of the family is a Gardai, the area he has responsibility for in a midland county is massive and partly includes sections of very busy motorway. This would have been handled by more Gardai years ago.

Too little butter spread over too much bread.

Mantis Toboggan

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I know they work lots of overtime and have allowances for everything so it wouldn't surprise me tbh. I'd love to have been a guard. Everyday different.

Not everyone does or can work overtime. Childcare & other issues come into it.
The budget in AGS is never enough, & overtime is the first to get cut.
I know 'someone' over 20 years in & earns 52k
In order to make more they work weekends, nights, bank holidays, Xmas etc. But still don't make 67k a year though!

There are not nearly enough Gardai in the country, but in order to entice educated adults to the force you do need to compete with the private sector, it's not terrible money, but there are much easier ways to make that money.

listermint

hmmm wrote: »

Of course it is, but then there's only so much tax to go around - so decisions have to be made as to how we allocate tax. Personally I don't know why more isn't spent on policing, prisons etc, because the public are crying out for more Guards and more criminals being taken off the streets.

I'm fully aware of there's only so much tax money to go around.its my money too.

Which is why its amazing that funding is pulled out of our arse for terrible projects like water meters and city centre new hospital locations on a Victorian postage stamp location.

Now excuse me if common sense was something I was given but I mean misuse of funding comes to mind.

Kivaro

Here is one suggestion to help fund more Gardai.
Leo Varadkar is going to send €1 Billion in the upcoming year to Africa and other areas of the world in the form of overseas aid. He wants to increase this Irish tax-funded overseas aid to €2 Billion per year in future years. Ireland must be really flush with money.

Until we have a functioning well-resourced police force, health service, and affordable housing, this "overseas aid" should be spent in Ireland.

hmmm

Kivaro wrote: »

Until we have a functioning well-resourced police force, health service, and affordable housing, this "overseas aid" should be spent in Ireland.

A country as wealthy as us should be able to have a well-funded police force and still spend a small amount of our wealth on helping poorer countries.

TheRepentent

hmmm wrote: »

Guards earn an average of 1300 euro a week (IPA report).

have you a link to the (IPA report)?

X111111111111

They threatened to go on strike a while back (breaking the law) to garner a pay rise. Lost all respect for them after that.

Jinglejangle69

Kivaro wrote: »

Here is one suggestion to help fund more Gardai.
Leo Varadkar is going to send €1 Billion in the upcoming year to Africa and other areas of the world in the form of overseas aid. He wants to increase this Irish tax-funded overseas aid to €2 Billion per year in future years. Ireland must be really flush with money.

Until we have a functioning well-resourced police force, health service, and affordable housing, this "overseas aid" should be spent in Ireland.

Leo Varadkar is going to send 1 billion?

I’m definitely in the wrong game.

Our first ever billionaire Taoiseach!!

Jinglejangle69

Gerry G wrote: »

You got it in one. These little rats used to fear a hiding from the Guards. Now the public cries foul if a guard lays a hand on their little darlings. General consensus among Guards now is why would they bother. Not worth losing your job and possibly facing a prosecution for laying a hand on a dirt bird

Paul Murphy tells us he is elected to break the law.

Jobstown comes to mind.

It’s no wonder....

DellyBelly

I actually hadn't realised 1300 a week is the average wage a guard earns. No wonder we can't afford more which is a shame cause they are badly needed. I hope that wage includes overtime

Jinglejangle69

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Must tell my son, he's a guard and earns nowhere near that figure.

Well aint that an eye opener.