Global warming forum

antiskeptic

I've scanned around boards.ie and don't see a dedicated global warming forum.

A search for 'global warming' or its politically re-spun title 'climate change', sees posts in a few places, mainly After Hours.

It seems strange that there would be no dedicated forum for what is or has the serious potential to become a global existential issue.

If there isn't already one, would it make sense to establish one?

Ken.

Start a thread here https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=461

Quantum Erasure

if the request for a Brexit forum is anything to go by, we'll all be under water by the time its opened...

Boards.ie: Niamh

We have a forum or Sustainability and Environmental Issues here, they have a Climate Change mega thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=109

antiskeptic

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

We have a forum or Sustainability and Environmental Issues here, they have a Climate Change mega thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=109

Given the centre of mass of climate discussion, which at the not-too-distant fringes includes end of society as we recognize it, a mega thread seems a little underwhelming.

The fact that the latest post in the environmental sub-forum concerns whether or not patio heaters have been banned indicates a trick being missed.

Might it be a case of build it and they will come?

To think of but a few key topics:

- climate science

- resource issues

- clean energy

- sustainable living (starting thread: "plastic drinking straw ban: a good start?"

- politics (sustainability and capitalism/consumerism/ever increasing ecomonic growth model, protest)

- end of the world as we know it (a.k.a. how long has the frog in the pot of warming water got?)

- feedback loop watch (greenland ice, die off's)

Fr_Dougal

antiskeptic wrote: »

Given the centre of mass of climate discussion, which at the not-too-distant fringes includes end of society as we recognize it, a mega thread seems a little underwhelming.

The fact that the latest post in the environmental sub-forum concerns whether or not patio heaters have been banned indicates a trick being missed.

Might it be a case of build it and they will come?

To think of but a few key topics:

- climate science

- resource issues

- clean energy

- sustainable living (starting thread: "plastic drinking straw ban: a good start?"

- politics (sustainability and capitalism/consumerism/ever increasing ecomonic growth model, protest)

- end of the world as we know it (a.k.a. how long has the frog in the pot of warming water got?)

- feedback loop watch (greenland ice, die off's)

Yeah a few years ago people would have been asking for a Kony forum, then a Syrian refugee forum, then an Apollo House forum.

Boards needs less forums, IMO, not more.

What’s stopping you from posting in Sustainability and Environmental Issues?

antiskeptic

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Yeah a few years ago people would have been asking for a Kony forum, then a Syrian refugee forum, then an Apollo House forum.

Boards needs less forums, IMO, not more.

What’s stopping you from posting in Sustainability and Environmental Issues?

It really depends on where you class climate change as an issue. Potential end of civilization as we know it isn't really on a par with the Syrian refugee crisis.

Put it another way: which issue is larger than it at the moment? Going on even what mainstream media is reporting. Temperatures soaring, ice disappearing far faster than predicted, species wipeout, oxygen free ocean areas?

Brexit, the Syrian refugee crisis etc will come and go. Climate isn't going anywhere but the wrong way.

Why not environment? Well, there is bugger all discussion and the question is whether boards leads on it or sits on its hands.

A meteor heading towards earth. Party on?

Fr_Dougal

antiskeptic wrote: »

It really depends on where you class climate change as an issue. Potential end of civilization as we know it isn't really on a par with the Syrian refugee crisis.

Put it another way: which issue is larger than it at the moment? Going on even what mainstream media is reporting. Temperatures soaring, ice disappearing far faster than predicted, species wipeout, oxygen free ocean areas?

Brexit, the Syrian refugee crisis etc will come and go. Climate isn't going anywhere but the wrong way.

Why not environment? Well, there is bugger all discussion and the question is whether boards leads on it or sits on its hands.

A meteor heading towards earth. Party on?

Yeah, yeah.

But what’s stopping you from posting in Sustainability and Environmental Issues?

It’s literally what the forum is for.

Beasty

Not only is there a forum already catering for this, but how many threads are likely to be needed to cover climate change? We have a long running one in CA which covers the current "political" climate change landscape. Beyond the politics I would have thought we are really talking environment and sustainability topics anyway

Of course given the current attention being given to this, is one idea to change the title of that forum? Maybe "Climate Change and Sustainability" and/or moving it up a tier, making it a main forum within Science, Health and Environment?

A new/additional forum would probably divide relevant discussion rather than consolidate it

antiskeptic

Beasty wrote: »

Not only is there a forum already catering for this, but how many threads are likely to be needed to cover climate change? We have a long running one in CA which covers the current "political" climate change landscape. Beyond the politics I would have thought we are really talking environment and sustainability topics anyway

Of course given the current attention being given to this, is one idea to change the title of that forum? Maybe "Climate Change and Sustainability" and/or moving it up a tier, making it a main forum within Science, Health and Environment?

A new/additional forum would probably divide relevant discussion rather than consolidate it

As I said, it depends on how you view the issue. If it were 1936 and hardly-fringe omens included an industrialised world war, would a specific forum be warranted?

Or would folk point to a mega thread on rumblings with nazi Germany within an existing general political forum within the Society & Culture section.

The importance (perceived) would drive both the positioning and sub-forums attaching.

It's hardly a surprise that we are were we are (warming due to industrial emissions was predicted in the mid-19th century apparently) but it would seem the Big Reveal is to hand: we are in deep trouble and a rock is meeting a hard place ... with the foot pressed ever more firmly on the emission/consumption gas.

Reticence/ urging to prioritize will be a reflection of where you see the level of the problem. If climate/resource/species wipeout an aside which will surely be sorted in time, then an aside forum.

If near promimity existential, then uppermost.

Time will tell.

Edit: or to put it another way. Massive meteor on a collision course with Earth. And boards has a megathread on the matter.

gozunda

antiskeptic wrote: »

As I said, it depends on how you view the issue. If it were 1936 and hardly-fringe omens included an industrialised world war, would a specific forum be warranted?

Or would folk point to a mega thread on rumblings with nazi Germany within an existing general political forum within the Society & Culture section.

The importance (perceived) would drive both the positioning and sub-forums attaching.

It's hardly a surprise that we are were we are (warming due to industrial emissions was predicted in the mid-19th century apparently) but it would seem the Big Reveal is to hand: we are in deep trouble and a rock is meeting a hard place ... with the foot pressed ever more firmly on the emission/consumption gas.

Reticence/ urging to prioritize will be a reflection of where you see the level of the problem. If climate/resource/species wipeout an aside which will surely be sorted in time, then an aside forum.

If near promimity existential, then uppermost.

Time will tell.

Edit: or to put it another way. Massive meteor on a collision course with Earth. And boards has a megathread on the matter.

I note you have also referred to the "Potential end of civilization" in another post above "

I know its the trendy thing atm to sit on the more alarmist side of the seesaw but if you are following the dictate of Extinction Rebellion and / or greta you have the wrong end of the stick when calling for a dedicated forum predicated on that belief.

This was posted previously about some of the current doomdayism - this from greta thunberg

"Around the year 2030, 10 years 252 days and 10 hours away from now, we will be in a position where we set off an irreversible chain reaction beyond human control, that will most likely lead to the end of our civilisation as we know it"

This is what one of the IPCC scientists said:

"Please stop saying something globally bad is going to happen in 2030. Bad stuff is already happening and every half a degree of warming matters, but the IPCC does not draw a “planetary boundary” at 1.5°C beyond which lie climate dragons.

There is no mention of only 10 years left in the IPCC report or near proximity of the end of civilisation

Verdict: I'm with the IPCC on this.

Plenty of room in the Environment Forum for rational discussion as already pointed out tbh.

antiskeptic

gozunda wrote: »

I note you have also referred to the "Potential end of civilization" in another post above "

I know its the trendy thing atm to sit on the more alarmist side of the seesaw..

It was the ninties and I was perusing a geological encylopedia detailing world reserves (actual + suspected-future-accessible-via-new-extraction-methods-yet-to-be-developed. Think fracking).

Total reserves (known and suspected) were expressed in years left at current rates of consumption. The slope of the graph for rate of increase of consumption was (and had been for some years)

And when everything had sub-100 years left to run, bar aluminium (which is a bit of an energy-whore to extract) you take note. As I did.


It wouldn't take a rocket scientist (nor a final year engineering student, which is probably the reason I was perusing said encylopedia) much to figure out a problem was looming.

You might not know much about the import of molybdenum, chromium, boron, tungsten has in the functioning of our society. But the engineer does. For without these critical building blocks, there is no technology.



And so my concern is a bit more long standing and substantive than a trend. The world as we know it is heading for a resource hard landing - no question, given resources finite and dwindling, accelerated by a world economy based on ever-growth

The issue is that climate looks like it might well beat it to the line. Mix those two up together? Well, it wouldn't be pretty.

There is no mention of only 10 years left in the IPCC report or near proximity of the end of civilisation

Verdict: I'm with the IPCC on this.

If there were 100 years left a dedicated forum would be warranted. Unless you take the rather dim view of "I'm alright Jack".

Peace in our time!

Quantum Erasure

^ would such discussion be more suited to a 'Sustainability and Environmental Issues' forum...?

gozunda

antiskeptic wrote: »

It was the ninties and I was perusing a geological encylopedia detailing world reserves (actual + suspected-future-accessible-via-new-extraction-methods-yet-to-be-developed. Think fracking).
Total reserves (known and suspected) were expressed in years left at current rates of consumption. The slope of the graph for rate of increase of consumption was (and had been for some years) And when everything had sub-100 years left to run, bar aluminium (which is a bit of an energy-whore to extract) you take note. As I did. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist (nor a final year engineering student, which is probably the reason I was perusing said encylopedia) much to figure out a problem was looming.You might not know much about the import of molybdenum, chromium, boron, tungsten has in the functioning of our society. But the engineer does. For without these critical building blocks, there is no technology.And so my concern is a bit more long standing and substantive than a trend. The world as we know it is heading for a resource hard landing - no question, given resources finite and dwindling, accelerated by a world economy based on ever-growth The issue is that climate looks like it might well beat it to the line. Mix those two up together? Well, it wouldn't be pretty. If there were 100 years left a dedicated forum would be warranted. Unless you take the rather dim view of "I'm alright Jack".Peace in our time!

As to the highlighted bits - Are you saying you are an engineer or rocket scientist? But no I dont believe I mentioned my profession or academic qualifications - but suffice to say I have a good grounding in the sciences.

And as per your geological encyclopedia - indeed on geological scale - the human race is most likely going to go extinct at some point in time. When I hear you ask? I'd suggest the dinosaurs knew as much about that as we do tbh.

As to the the ever populism of the present doomsday scenarios - these are being used to push much of the current hype of the more overt climate catastrophe and alarmism. And no none of that denies climate change btw.

As Isaid - Plenty of room in the Environment Forum for rational discussion

Beasty

Guys - can we drop the actual climate change discussion. The importance of the underlying topic is not being questioned. This thread is to discuss where it can/should be discussed though

antiskeptic

Beasty wrote: »

Guys - can we drop the actual climate change discussion. The importance of the underlying topic is not being questioned. This thread is to discuss where it can/should be discussed though

<snip>

Beasty

antiskeptic - continue debating climate change rather than where it can/should be discussed and I'll close the thread

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this warning in-thread

Fr_Dougal

antiskeptic wrote: »

I've scanned around boards.ie and don't see a dedicated global warming forum.

A search for 'global warming' or its politically re-spun title 'climate change', sees posts in a few places, mainly After Hours.

It seems strange that there would be no dedicated forum for what is or has the serious potential to become a global existential issue.

If there isn't already one, would it make sense to establish one?

It’s strange that you have never actually posted about global warming before(that I can see), and you haven’t followed the advice of posting in the dedicated forum for the topic, yet you haven’t let the issue go.

I suppose it demonstrates that pandering to every new forum request is a bad idea.

People get caught up in the hype, but when it comes down to posting in the correct forum they won’t bother.

antiskeptic

Beasty wrote: »

antiskeptic - continue debating climate change rather than where it can/should be discussed and I'll close the thread

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this warning in-thread

Sorry about that. I was contending with your point that the issue is being downplayed ....and strayed.

We have a number of problems. Global warming is one.

Our treatment of the environment is another with multifold threats to food and water supplies as a consequence. Indeed, recently discovered microplastics in the air ("on average 26,000 pieces per litre in European locations" - The Guardian) raise another global spectre.

I'm querying the suitability of say 'environment' or 'weather' forums for addressing the larger scale issues that roll out from the above co-influencing issues.

A forum dedicated to the nature of the onward march of man, given the Biblical level constraints he faces, appears timely.

If this isn't 'just another issue' which can be expected to be resolved in time, such that life roll on more or less as before, then somewhere to deal with it, fully, is warranted.

So where? Well in a forum dedicated to it of course. Perhaps a better title would be something like "The Existential Forum"

Tell me, at what point in proceedings would a WWII forum have been considered warranted? 1939? 1940? 1933?

antiskeptic

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

It’s strange that you have never actually posted about global warming before(that I can see), and you haven’t followed the advice of posting in the dedicated forum for the topic, yet you haven’t let the issue go.

I suppose it demonstrates that pandering to every new forum request is a bad idea.

People get caught up in the hype, but when it comes down to posting in the correct forum they won’t bother.

See above for a more appropriate title suggestion. Wonder whether my suggestion would receive more of a welcome on boards.au?

Nothing like a frog being fecked into a pot of boiling water to get its attention.

Beasty

antiskeptic wrote: »

Tell me, at what point in proceedings would a WWII forum have been considered warranted? 1939? 1940? 1933?

Probably around the same time as a "Great War" forum, but not before 1998 as the site did not exist until then

As I've already mentioned one thing to consider is widening the remit/changing the title of an existing forum as we already have a number of places identified where these matters can be discussed. Opening up a new forum is more likely to divide discussion

Fr_Dougal

antiskeptic wrote: »

See above for a more appropriate title suggestion. Wonder whether my suggestion would receive more of a welcome on boards.au?

Nothing like a frog being fecked into a pot of boiling water to get its attention.

Well if the suggested forum already made to you doesn’t suit you could try here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Or are you just looking for an echo chamber?

Perhaps you could create your own website?

Twat-Badger

Perhaps the OP might find more succour here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart

Black Swan

antiskeptic wrote: »

I've scanned around boards.ie and don't see a dedicated global warming forum.

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

We have a forum or Sustainability and Environmental Issues here, they have a Climate Change mega thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=109

Hi antiskeptic. Recommend you post in Sustainability & Environment Issues forum.

Boards.ie: Niamh

The 'build it and they will come' idea does not work with new forums, it has been tried, tested and failed on multiple occasions.

The only new forums that tend to take off are for specific topics that are already being discussed a huge amount in another forum that might not specifically suit the topic - so they get a new dedicated forum. The Sustainability & Environment Issues forum where climate change is already discussed is the best place for your ideas above, antiskeptic.

Beasty

TBH it's a topic I'm going to be trying to discuss a lot over the next year or so as I move to a place in the Sunny South East and look to try and get ourselves self-sufficient on energy and some of our food. I can see there are already some relevant threads in that forum. It'll be like a re-make of The Good Life:pac:

Inviere

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

The only new forums that tend to take off are for specific topics that are already being discussed a huge amount in another forum that might not specifically suit the topic - so they get a new dedicated forum.

A bit like Brexit.....

/runs

(Sorry Niamh was an obvious one :D)

The Sustainability & Environment Issues forum where climate change is already discussed is the best place for your ideas above, antiskeptic.

I'd largely agree. The only issue I have with the existing forum is it has a very "science'y" name, and it is positioned with the Science category. That's all well and good if a person knows the name of the forum in order to search for it, or uses the drop down menus to navigate (so there are potential barriers in the way). For a broad reaching and now very domestic topic, the existing forum could broaden its appeal by being renamed and possibly repositioned ("Climate Change & Sustainable Living" housed within the "Society & Culture" category being one idea).

The "build it and they will come" approach has indeed been tried and tested, and fails more often than not. That's not to say the status quo is the best way to attract growth and conversation to the site, it often isn't, and there are many areas where the site could benefit from a few tweaks here and there

Black Swan

It has been suggested here and elsewhere that the title of the Sustainability & Environmental Issues forum somehow include "Climate Change" to draw in content, views, and posts. This title is currently being reviewed by science mods. Thanks for the feedback.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Thanks to all for the suggestions.

The Sustainability & Environment forum was renamed last week to 'Climate Change, Sustainability & Environment' and we have taken both it and the Infrastructure forum out from under the redundant 'Environment & Infrastructure' category and put them in the main Science, Health and Environment category. Hopefully this will make them more easily discoverable for all users.

Black Swan

Thanks for your help Niamh. We will track this change to see if views and posts improve. Also, would this be a good time to ask Mark if he would please post this change in his February newsletter? It's a grand little pub, and may draw in members to Climate Change.

Fr_Dougal

antiskeptic wrote: »

See above for a more appropriate title suggestion. Wonder whether my suggestion would receive more of a welcome on boards.au?

Nothing like a frog being fecked into a pot of boiling water to get its attention.

How are you getting on with the newly formatted forum? The mods, admin, and staff went out of their way to accommodate you. Are you finding it useful?