Housing and new people

beejee

According to the news, 130 odd thousand "new irish" have gone through those immigration celebration things, since 2011.

A cursory glance over cso figures reveals that 80 odd thousand homes have been built between 2011 and 2017. But apparently the real number is closer to 50 odd thousand.

Meanwhile, we all know the hullabaloo about increasing costs, rent, homelessness.

The rte segment also reported that the next batch of these immigration ceremonies will be in January and continuing.

There are the never ending reports about how we need to build X homes each year, and the corresponding failures to even get near those numbers.

Tons of factors at play here, but I'm not presenting a detailed policy report. Surely, I think to myself, that the dogs on the street must know by now that all of this is farcical. Surely!

But then second thoughts creep in about the average awareness of Irish people

So, just as a bellwether, does the average person connect these dots together? Asking in after hours seems the most likely to get as broad a response as possible (a big mistake, perhaps!)

Is anyone else drawing a very strong correlation between these rampant housing issues and the appearance of huge numbers of new people?

Am I just living on the moon, I'm so out of touch with reality? And are they building enough homes there?

TwoMonthsOff

I often wonder why people continue to come here despite our very obvious housing and health crisis.

Allinall

Most of the “new Irish “ have been living and working here for years.

beejee

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

I often wonder why people continue to come here despite our very obvious housing and health crisis.

It's probably not that complicated. There's more for them to get here.

That rte thing mentioned that there were quite a few polish and English.

Polish must be due to much better social welfare and pay, English thing is complex due to be it and people jumping ship for stability.

But then you look at the United States, which is godawful socially, yet people try to get in there in their droves.

If you want to really get to the bare bones, I suppose, it's that hanging around a lot of money (relatively) is still better than hanging around less money. The availability of potential, of opportunity.

But... What concerns people from other countries dwindles in comparison to what a person thinks is, or should, or shouldn't be happening in their own country. My thoughts on what is happening in ireland is far more important to me than some dude in India.

beejee

Allinall wrote: »

Most of the “new Irish “ have been living and working here for years.

Well then, the numbers of people are even greater.

Allinall

beejee wrote: »

Well then, the numbers of people are even greater.

What numbers?

TwoMonthsOff

It's a fact that immigrants are over represented on the housing list in Fingal. So that's proof in itself that immigration is in fact putting further strain on housing.

izzyflusky

I'm not a "new Irish" or Irish at all. I've also "taken"* one of those newly built houses you mention. Am I the cause of your nation's problems too or am I exempt because I haven't usurped the Irish title?




*Worked my a** off and saved for.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

According to the news, 130 odd thousand "new irish" have gone through those immigration celebration things, since 2011.

So more Irish citizens require more houses?
Yep, sounds right.
Is there an issue?

IAMAMORON

In summary this is an inward immigration bash.

TwoMonthsOff

bubblypop wrote: »

So more Irish citizens require more houses?
Yep, sounds right.
Is there an issue?

Just that we cant house the citizens we already have.

ArchXStanton

You would want to be seriously braindead to not notice an ever increasing amount of foreign nationals here and of course its going to have an impact on services, there simply isn't enough housing, but at least the banks etc. will be happy... The house always wins

TwoMonthsOff

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

Just that we cant house the citizens we already have.

Of course we can.
There are thousands of empty houses in the country.

corner of hells

izzyflusky wrote: »

I'm not a "new Irish" or Irish at all. I've also "taken"* one of those newly built houses you mention. Am I the cause of your nation's problems too or am I exempt because I haven't usurped the Irish title?




*Worked my a** off and saved for.

You might've have broken the thread , the OP hasn't factored in for the likes of yourself.

Still waters

izzyflusky wrote: »

I'm not a "new Irish" or Irish at all. I've also "taken"* one of those newly built houses you mention. Am I the cause of your nation's problems too or am I exempt because I haven't usurped the Irish title?




*Worked my a** off and saved for.

If you bought it and are paying for it you're not a burden, if you're on the dole and getting rent supplement and child support without giving anything back, then yes you're a massive burden. I don't think the OP was referring to people like you but you know that already and choose to be obtuse about it

TwoMonthsOff

F**k the plebs, this is all the matters.

Still waters

Still waters wrote: »

If you bought it and are paying for it you're not a burden, if you're on the dole and getting rent supplement and child support without giving anything back, then yes you're a massive burden. I don't think the OP was referring to people like you but you know that already and choose to be obtuse about it

So, is the OP referring to social housing?
Because there's no reference to that in the first post

Mrs OBumble

Someone's got do the jobs that old Irish won't do.

beejee

bubblypop wrote: »

So more Irish citizens require more houses?
Yep, sounds right.
Is there an issue?

Are you from the planet mongo?

Not enough homes, combined with too many people. No shortage of more people coming here, every indication that not enough homes will be built.

That's the issue.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

Are you from the planet mongo?

Not enough homes, combined with too many people. No shortage of more people coming here, every indication that not enough homes will be built.

That's the issue.

But there's thousands of empty houses in the country

enricoh

There was an article on the front page of the Sunday times that Boris is to end non skilled migration to the UK. Skilled, useful people only thanks.
We need to follow suit, pronto!

corner of hells

bubblypop wrote: »

So, is the OP referring to social housing?
Because there's no reference to that in the first post

You clearly didn't read the opening post , the OP mentioned that he lives currently on the moon.

beejee

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Someone's got do the jobs that old Irish won't do.

I don't buy into that line of thought. It doesn't stand up to an ounce of scrutiny.

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

There was an article on the front page of the Sunday times that Boris is to end non skilled migration to the UK. Skilled, useful people only thanks.
We need to follow suit, pronto!

What kind of skills?
Waiters, hairdressers, construction workers, binmen?
What do you consider 'skilled ' ?

Spanish Eyes

Doesn't really matter, anyone can see, doesn't really matter anymore now.

We are not allowed to comment anymore, isn't that corrrect?

Allinall

Still waters wrote: »

If you bought it and are paying for it you're not a burden, if you're on the dole and getting rent supplement and child support without giving anything back, then yes you're a massive burden. I don't think the OP was referring to people like you but you know that already and choose to be obtuse about it

I wonder why the OP didn’t explicitly say who he was referring to?

beejee

izzyflusky wrote: »

I'm not a "new Irish" or Irish at all. I've also "taken"* one of those newly built houses you mention. Am I the cause of your nation's problems too or am I exempt because I haven't usurped the Irish title?




*Worked my a** off and saved for.

Of course it's an additional problem.

"you think there's too many people?! But have you considered all these EXTRA people like me too?!"

Salary Negotiator

The Tories are making very similar arguments in the UK only it’s the NHS that’s under strain not housing.

Turns out that immigrants actually use the NHS less than the locals, I wonder if anyone has done a study on the impact immigration has had on housing in Ireland.

Someone mentioned Fingal, is that repeated in other LA’s?

beejee

bubblypop wrote: »

But there's thousands of empty houses in the country

Come on now, be serious. Why are they empty?

Don't even bother replying, everyone knows the answer already.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

Come on now, be serious. Why are they empty?

Don't even bother replying, everyone knows the answer already.

Why don't you tell us why?
And another one, why don't you tell us exactly what type of housing you are referring to?
All houses in the country? Or social housing?

touts

Some of the most dedicated and hardest working people I've ever worked alongside were "new Irish". They are far more deserving of housing than many of the Irish welfare class who believe a hard day"s work involves sticking your hand out and expecting someone else to fill it with money.

Still waters

Allinall wrote: »

I wonder why the OP didn’t explicitly say who he was referring to?

They should have, ask the OP

beejee

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

The Tories are making very similar arguments in the UK only it’s the NHS that’s under strain not housing.

Turns out that immigrants actually use the NHS less than the locals, I wonder if anyone has done a study on the impact immigration has had on housing in Ireland.

Someone mentioned Fingal, is that repeated in other LA’s?

But at what point does an immigrant get officially marked down as a "local"?

Really dangerous masking of information.

This shouldn't be a political argument, I'm really just wondering what the common perception is at large. It's a very basic observation of numbers, even anecdotally too.

I'd also be most curious as to people voting "weakly connected", how, exactly, do they perceive these things as weakly correlated?

beejee

touts wrote: »

Some of the most dedicated and hardest working people I've ever worked alongside were "new Irish". They are far more deserving of housing than many of the Irish welfare class who believe a hard day"s work involves sticking your hand out and expecting someone else to fill it with money.

I don't care about your feelings about right and wrong.

It's a numbers game here. Simple, right?

TwoMonthsOff

beejee wrote: »

I don't care about your feelings about right and wrong.

It's a numbers game here. Simple, right?

Savage.

Beau Bennett

Immigrants don't get the advantage of moving back in and scrounging off their parents while saving for a deposit. So all the more power to them for being in a position to buy.

Still waters

touts wrote: »

Some of the most dedicated and hardest working people I've ever worked alongside were "new Irish". They are far more deserving of housing than many of the Irish welfare class who believe a hard day"s work involves sticking your hand out and expecting someone else to fill it with money.

Agree fully, the amount of social housing in town/city centres is phenomenal, shove the crowd that don't want to work out of the middle of employment centres and rent or sell to people who are willing to work

enricoh

bubblypop wrote: »

What kind of skills?
Waiters, hairdressers, construction workers, binmen?
What do you consider 'skilled ' ?

Don't have paper at hand, but I read it as a points based criteria to get in. You get in if they need you.
I wonder where those they don't want will go?!!

CitywestMan

A big bunch of these new Irish pay more taxes and work a lot more than Damo and his crew of 3 single mother partners and 6 kids who don't wanna live far off from Ma ( who also happens to be housed by the council). Is there a loophole for some of the new Irish to claim the dole, leech and get citizenship ? Perhaps there is, but that's something the government needs to fix. Chancers will milk a system anywhere in the world

beejee

bubblypop wrote: »

Why don't you tell us why?
And another one, why don't you tell us exactly what type of housing you are referring to?
All houses in the country? Or social housing?

They are empty because of economic disadvantage, mostly. There, is your mind blown by the obvious now?

And I'm referring to all housing, yes. No need to get lost in too many details here.

A container that can hold 10 liters of water, yet you're filling it with 12 liters. There, that's the obvious problem. It doesn't matter about how it's distributed, it's the sum total that matters most.

ThunbergsAreGo

Of course it's an issue people need to live somewhere. But skilled migrants massively aid our ability to attract FDI

Would the 120k even include EU citizens?

beejee

CitywestMan wrote: »

A big bunch of these new Irish pay more taxes and work a lot more than Damo and his crew of 3 single mother partners and 6 kids who don't wanna live far off from Ma ( who also happens to be housed by the council). Is there a loophole for some of the new Irish to claim the dole, leech and get citizenship ? Perhaps there is, but that's something the government needs to fix. Chancers will milk a system anywhere in the world

And yet again, it matters nowt about right or wrong.

It's numbers. It's a number problem.

Still waters

bubblypop wrote: »

What kind of skills?
Waiters, hairdressers, construction workers, binmen?
What do you consider 'skilled ' ?

Anyone with a degree, qualifications or experience in their chosen field is skilled, whether or not they're in demand is another thing

beejee

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Of course it's an issue people need to live somewhere. But skilled migrants massively aid our ability to attract FDI

Would the 120k even include EU citizens?

Yes, that includes eu citizens changing to Irish citizenship.

As for FDI, equally generally speaking, the basic costs of housing go through the roof.

So...we get more money that cost more money. Not brilliant strategy there.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

Come on now, be serious. Why are they empty?

Don't even bother replying, everyone knows the answer already.

Enlighten us.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

But at what point does an immigrant get officially marked down as a "local"?

Well the people you refer to in the OP are Irish citizens, so I would suggest, as they are Irish, they are now pretty local!!

beejee

beejee wrote: »

A container that can hold 10 liters of water, yet you're filling it with 12 liters. There, that's the obvious problem. It doesn't matter about how it's distributed, it's the sum total that matters most.

But if you have 20 more containers that are quarter full.... Then you have lots of place to distribute that water.

Rodin

Wouldn't be handing out passports after five years myself.
I could live somewhere else for the rest of my life. I'd never consider myself as being from there or a citizen. I'll certainly never seek a 2nd passport or swear allegiance to another country.

the dark phantom

Its not foreigners that made a hames of the planning policies in Ireland that sees us in the situation we are in regarding housing.

enricoh

CitywestMan wrote: »

A big bunch of these new Irish pay more taxes and work a lot more than Damo and his crew of 3 single mother partners and 6 kids who don't wanna live far off from Ma ( who also happens to be housed by the council). Is there a loophole for some of the new Irish to claim the dole, leech and get citizenship ? Perhaps there is, but that's something the government needs to fix. Chancers will milk a system anywhere in the world

A 'big bunch' of new Irish have adapted quite well to our welfare state.
Fingal housing list had over half non Nationals in 2011, they no longer give a breakdown of numbers. (For some unknown reason!)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.herald.ie/news/over-half-on-housing-list-are-foreign-27973856.html&ved=2ahUKEwj9_8LXrqnmAhWbVBUIHR1kBx4QFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1Tei5dpxv8JKt07XhqJPe9&cshid=1575921962603

beejee

bubblypop wrote: »

Well the people you refer to in the OP are Irish citizens, so I would suggest, as they are Irish, they are now pretty local!!

There you go!

So to copy that logic, if a million extra people appeared in the country next week, handed thir papers.... And then the government is scratching it's head over "it's mostly locals taking up accommodation, no idea where the problem lies"

Come on!