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Dacia Spring

24

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    liamog wrote: »
    I think Dacia know their market, there's plenty of cars on the road with piddly engines that sell well enough to people who don't care.

    True

    All the koreans phevs have around that bhp in EV mode and they seem happy with it, even a 2500kg BMW X5 phev only has 100bhp or so in EV mode

    Personally it would be way too slow for me, but people used to slow cars will be fine with 125nm on tap


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    True

    All the koreans phevs have around that bhp in EV mode and they seem happy with it, even a 2500kg BMW X5 phev only has 100bhp or so in EV mode

    Personally it would be way too slow for me, but people used to slow cars will be fine with 125nm on tap

    Yes and no, around town it would be fine but on the open road it will be seriously lacking at higher speeds because there is no gearbox you do not have access to 125nm of torque at higher speeds and it will be much less.

    Those cars will be a right pain in the ass on the road to be honest but if they have no DC charging I can't see many People buying them if they have to wait hours to recharge on a longer trip and it's a serious restriction without fast charging, though fast charging would probably mean 30 Kw on that car.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,036 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Sounds like a perfect city car, which would suit the vast majority of people in Ireland.

    I live rurally, and it would suit me just as well.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Seriously though, 44 hp ? I think anyone used to even a 1.0L car would find this ridiculously slow, it's one thing around town but power will rapidly reduce at higher speeds without a gearbox, if there's ever a case for a gear box in an EV then it's definitely here lol. Anyone test driving in town might be shocked at higher speeds.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,578 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    And yet ... If the pricing is low enough Dacia / renault's biggest problem could be making enough of them and getting the batteries ...
    There'll probably be a second generation quite quickly with a bigger motor , and faster charging ( and as battery tech is moving so fast , probably a better / lighter battery )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Seriously though, 44 hp ? I think anyone used to even a 1.0L car would find this ridiculously slow, it's one thing around town but power will rapidly reduce at higher speeds without a gearbox, if there's ever a case for a gear box in an EV then it's definitely here lol. Anyone test driving in town might be shocked at higher speeds.

    Think will leave a 1.0l Yaris for dead at low speeds, youd have to rev nuts out of a 1.0l to keep up and look anti social around town

    For sub €15,000 its tempting, should do 200km in under 80km/h roads

    If its closer to €20,000 better buy a used Leaf or Ioniq


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    Think will leave a 1.0l Yaris for dead at low speeds, youd have to rev nuts out of a 1.0l to keep up and look anti social around town

    For sub €15,000 its tempting, should do 200km in under 80km/h roads

    If its closer to €20,000 better buy a used Leaf or Ioniq

    Yeah around town it will have more torque but the 1.0L yaris has a gearbox which really helps at speed, the Dacia will struggle above 60-70 Km/hr. I would bet it would struggle at speed on hills too.

    To be honest, I'd rather drive a 1.0L Yaris!


  • Registered Users Posts: 902 ✭✭✭3d4life


    Guess M_L isnt a prospect for one so.

    The original Mini had an engine that put out thirty something horsepower, millions of people were delighted to get their hands on one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    A brand new electric car for €15,000, that's going to generate a lot of interest.
    And if it sells in large numbers and I believe it will, could finally bring affordable electric cars to the masses.

    My own Auris Hybrid has a 27hp electric motor and weighs 1420kg, with a full tank.
    Which works out at 19hp per tonne.
    Driving on electric only in the city is just about doable, but you'll get a queue behind.
    44hp from the Spring should be more than enough at city speeds.
    Although motorway/hilly driving could be interesting.
    I'd say people will forgive a lot for that price tag.


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  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    3d4life wrote: »
    Guess M_L isnt a prospect for one so.

    The original Mini had an engine that put out thirty something horsepower, millions of people were delighted to get their hands on one.

    Indeed, however, you're missing the point, electric motors have lots of torque from just above 0 rpm which reduces as speed rises so you have a lot less torque at higher rpm, an ICE on the other hand needs the gearbox due to the limited rev range but you can get max torque in any gear unlike an ev which helps eek as much power out of the engine as possible, if an EV with such low power had a 2 speed box it would allow more torque at higher rpm/speed.

    However, as I said before, electric car power output can be altered to provide more torque at higher speeds at the expense of torque at lower speeds by choosing a different motor Kv and gear ratio and by adjusting the Motor controller software.

    + the original Mini was very small and light so the low power wasn't as noticeable.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A brand new electric car for €15,000, that's going to generate a lot of interest.
    And if it sells in large numbers and I believe it will, could finally bring affordable electric cars to the masses.

    My own Auris Hybrid has a 27hp electric motor and weighs 1420kg, with a full tank.
    Which works out at 19hp per tonne.
    Driving on electric only in the city is just about doable, but you'll get a queue behind.
    44hp from the Spring should be more than enough at city speeds.
    Although motorway/hilly driving could be interesting.
    I'd say people will forgive a lot for that price tag.

    44 Hp heavy car isn't going to fair out too well at speed and wile it might seem fine in town in traffic ( which it will ) it's on the open road it will struggle and those test driving around town might be greatly disappointed if they do take it out on a long spin out of town.

    There's a lot of Irish People buying so called city cars to do much more than city driving.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,578 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Is this expected to be 15grand before subsidies ?
    If so would this be 12 / 13 grand retail ( for the most basic )
    , and think how many cars in this country tip along either town or country ,doing school runs and shopping trips , rarely going on 100km roads let alone 120kms ..
    A bit different for commuter runs around city's .. you're gonna need to handle a mix of road conditions , but then it'll be worth your while buying something a bit more capable because you'll be saving on fuel , (for now till the road tax goes through the roof )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    They've not announced plans for a RHD version yet, so not sure if they'll bother bringing it to Ireland.
    Re the discussion around it's performance, the car is due to weigh under 1000kg. It's power to weight ration is around 0.035, probably the closest car to it's level of performance would be the I-Miev triplets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭oinkely


    I drive a c zero at the moment. Commute from wicklow to dunlaoghaire. It's never seen a dc charger in the time I've owned it. It is tiny, spartan and not very powerful. But it gets me to work and back on my own every day (that i have to go there now!) for buttons. and it still has enough range left to get to the shops, do sports/activity runs with the kids locally and other errands. Had a leaf tekna but sold it cause wife also has one and it pained me to have that money all tied up in a car that was only used for commuting to work when this does the same job (in a bit less comfort) for the same weekly cost with a lot less cash tied up in it.

    So there is a market for a cheap, non dc charging run about - albeit it may be a small one (but i doubt it).

    Also, Dacia are popular for a reason, people are happy with the price tag and what they get for their money. Neighbors have two, a logan and a stepway, both bought new instead of more premium marques second hand.

    I can see it doing well if it gets here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    If this had a decent safety rating, I'd be interested. The 80kW from my 2nd hand leaf is fun off the line (coming from crappy ICEs), but to get the Spring's range at that price, I'd trade off speed (or rather, acceleration).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭loopymum


    That's incredibly cheap, could see alot of people buying that if similarly priced here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    It’s not the real price though. Just the first 100.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    And its not an Irish price either.... it would be €20k+ here no doubt.... but its not coming here anyway so its moot.

    Good for those 100 Hungarians though... poor spec but well worth €11k!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,578 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    If it was 15000euro before subsidies ( and I know there'd have to be an rhd version first ) ,how much would it be here ... ( Not accounting for gouging )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/autokatalog/marken-modelle/dacia/dacia-spring/

    under 10k for base model after subsidies in Germany.
    The dab/radio/satnav with bluetooth and android auto will be an added extra
    DC charging at 30kw DC charging too.
    Pre-heating seems to be available.

    This is the sort of car you can realistically charge once or twice a week at 2.3kw from a domestic plug and use as a second car but you'll find yourself using it most of the time for errands as it costs next to nothing to get in the electric car rather than the petrol/diesel car parked beside it.

    I'd still prefer a Twingo Z.E. but hard to argue with it at the price.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/autokatalog/marken-modelle/dacia/dacia-spring/

    under 10k for base model after subsidies in Germany.
    The dab/radio/satnav with bluetooth and android auto will be an added extra
    DC charging at 30kw DC charging too.
    Pre-heating seems to be available.

    This is the sort of car you can realistically charge once or twice a week at 2.3kw from a domestic plug and use as a second car but you'll find yourself using it most of the time for errands as it costs next to nothing to get in the electric car rather than the petrol/diesel car parked beside it.

    I'd still prefer a Twingo Z.E. but hard to argue with it at the price.

    All good except if it's that cheap Irish buyers will buy it for a lot more than town and city driving, this thing has no power, it's like the bad old days on non turbo diesels except they had a gearbox for some power at higher speeds. I'd hate to drive this on the motorway, even over taking would be frightful I'd say.

    Such Low power isn't necessary.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,467 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    44 hp ! nearly fell of my chair laughing !!!

    Sounds like something that would sell in Ireland alright. A yoke like that would get to 80 km/hr in about 30 seconds. lmao.

    A 90 Hp Zoe take 14 seconds 0-100 ffs imagine this thing holding up traffic ?

    cars in the 70's and 80's had this king of power but they were small and weighed feck all.

    There's no need to skimp on power like that, different in the 70's and 80's where fuel had to be saved because People hadn't the cash but electricity is cheap.

    44 Hp and 26 Kwh battery, that's real progress.

    those values seem to make a perfect car for urban masses


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    lawred2 wrote: »
    those values seem to make a perfect car for urban masses

    Yeah except if it's so cheap it will be used everywhere on the motorways holding up traffic and on back roads scared to over take with no power, hardly able to climb hills especially motorway inclines. Jausus. 1980's level of power except the car will be much much heavier than your little box from the 80s.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,705 ✭✭✭54and56


    It's shocking that Dacia feel the only way to make an EV cheap is to give it such little power.......

    Irish People will buy it because it's cheap and drive it on the motorways in the middle lane.

    That's an Irish People problem, not a Dacia problem.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    54and56 wrote: »
    That's an Irish People problem, not a Dacia problem.

    Making an under powered vehicle is a Dacia problem though, it's unnecessary in this day and age.

    The only reason I can think of is that the batteries are dirt cheap due to having low discharge rates or C rates that more power is probably impossible, I can think of no other reason.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,004 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Making an under powered vehicle is a Dacia problem though, it's unnecessary in this day and age.

    The only reason I can think of is that the batteries are dirt cheap due to having low discharge rates or C rates that more power is probably impossible, I can think of no other reason.

    Put more power in it they'll have to charge more. Dacia are a business, they've identified their market and they'll sell, they're road legal.
    If motorway users buy low powered cars and get in the way instead of using the correct lane then it's not Dacias fault.
    People block motorway lanes in cars with twice the power.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,705 ✭✭✭54and56


    Making an under powered vehicle is a Dacia problem though, it's unnecessary in this day and age.

    The only reason I can think of is that the batteries are dirt cheap due to having low discharge rates or C rates that more power is probably impossible, I can think of no other reason.

    It may be "under powered" by Mad_Lad subjectivity but if it was actually under powered it wouldn't be certified for use on public roads.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Doesn't the i3 Rex engine only have 34hp?


  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭pummice


    Who exactly has said that the price will be 15k?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭vicM


    Lumen wrote: »
    Doesn't the i3 Rex engine only have 34hp?

    Doesn't power the motors though, just holds charge in the battery


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lumen wrote: »
    Doesn't the i3 Rex engine only have 34hp?

    34-40 not sure, the 94 Ah version got more power. It's irrelevant though because the engine isn't mechanically connected to the wheels, pity Dacia didn't make such a car.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    vicM wrote: »
    Doesn't power the motors though, just holds charge in the battery

    Yes only keeps power to the battery when needed, Lumen knows this too he's just being a git. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,602 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    If they can do them at 15k they will sell by the bucket load just like the Duster when it was released.

    No it won't. If it's only capable of reaching 105kmh they will sell hardly any. If it could do 140kmh it might.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    54and56 wrote: »
    It may be "under powered" by Mad_Lad subjectivity but if it was actually under powered it wouldn't be certified for use on public roads.

    No seriously, why bother with such little power in a heavy car unless the battery is so incapable of providing any more power it will be absolutely gutless at higher speeds with no gearbox and electricity is cheap so fuel economy isn't a concern.

    "certified for public roads" once it can reach 50 Km/Hr it's fit for motorways lol, doesn't make it right or safe.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Buddy Bubs wrote: »
    Put more power in it they'll have to charge more. Dacia are a business, they've identified their market and they'll sell, they're road legal.
    If motorway users buy low powered cars and get in the way instead of using the correct lane then it's not Dacias fault.
    People block motorway lanes in cars with twice the power.

    Lack of power isn't going to make a big difference to range because it's wind resistance at higher speed that eats range not acceleration.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,563 ✭✭✭eagerv


    I think there could be a big market for a car like this in Ireland.


    Ideal for city use and also ideal for rural use.

    I am in the country and just thinking about the average use many have for their present cars. Many I know of rarely leave their county, just shopping in nearest town once or twice a week, school runs, occasional trips to hospitals in neighbouring counties etc.
    Much or rural Ireland doesn't have motorways, you are lucky to get over 80km/h in reality. And many I know, if having to visit Dublin will get the train or Airport bus.



    I think a smart looking low powered EV that's well priced would sell loads..


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What's the range of this thing again ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    What's the range of this thing again ?

    Is it not in the thread title? 250km.

    With that low of a max speed then I certainly don't be buying it. I don't I would even want to drive one. 🙂


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭oinkely


    i'd buy one for the kids when they are learning to drive. I remember what I was like hooning around in a 1.0L fiat uno. Being limited to 105km/hr would be a great tool for younger (17 to 21) drivers ;-) Might even help with the crazy insurance prices too?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    44 hp ! nearly fell of my chair laughing !!!

    Don't be silly. The relevant figure for acceleration is torque as has been explained to you several times on this forum. This car has 125NM of torque, which is 35% more than a typical petrol supermini like a Toyota Aygo. This car will have no problem at all keeping up with traffic on any road.
    oinkely wrote: »
    i'd buy one for the kids when they are learning to drive.

    Exactly. First thing that came to my mind too. My kids are nearly of that age now. If we could get one for €10k here, I'd be tempted. It will have glacial depreciation and will probably also be pretty reasonable to insure for a learner driver or someone just qualified.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    unkel wrote: »
    Don't be silly. The relevant figure for acceleration is torque as has been explained to you several times on this forum. This car has 125NM of torque, which is 35% more than a typical petrol supermini like a Toyota Aygo. This car will have no problem at all keeping up with traffic on any road.


    What are you talking about ? the car is slow as F1ck, what's the quoted 0-100 again ?.

    Sure it will keep up.......eventually lol, when it gets to speed.

    Your average ICE supermini has a gearbox that can provide torque in any gear electrics can't do this this makes a big difference, while you might have 65 Nm torque in a 3 Cylinder 900 CC engine, you can get this in any gear mostly and at around 5000-6000 rpm give or take and EV an EV provide most of this at low speeds and falls off rapidly at higher speed so you no longer have 125 Nm of torque at 80 Km/hr. Fine for slow driving and slow it will be lol.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No it won't. If it's only capable of reaching 105kmh they will sell hardly any. If it could do 140kmh it might.

    I don't know about that, there are plenty of EV drivers I see driving at 60-80 Km/Hr on the M7 and they're not all MK I Leaf drivers either.

    Sure, the Dacia EV might make an ok car if it's really cheap that is a car for school runs and shops, then again would you need to buy a new car for this anyway ?

    I wonder how many unsuspecting drivers might not know about the ridiculously low speed limit, will the dealers tell them ? there are dealers that won't allow you take a car beyond the town and will be stuck to driving no more than 50 Km/Hr.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    What are you talking about ? the car is slow as F1ck, what's the quoted 0-100 again ?

    I'd say a fair guess is that this car would spend about 99.9999% of its driving time not doing a 0-100km/h sprint ;)

    Ideal second family car no matter if your first car is ICE or EV, for local trips, commute, learner / kids driving etc.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    According to info on the web it's a top speed of 125km/h with a 0-100km/h time of 15s. Perfectly adequate for it's intended market.

    https://insideevs.com/reviews/450668/everything-about-dacia-spring-electric/


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  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    unkel wrote: »
    I'd say a fair guess is that this car would spend about 99.9999% of its driving time not doing a 0-100km/h sprint ;)

    Ideal second family car no matter if your first car is ICE or EV, for local trips, commute, learner / kids driving etc.

    No it won't spend most of it's time doing 0-100 Km/Hr sprints but it's 0-100 time is a good indication of how slow it will actually be to accelerate.

    Still a fair bit to spend on a run-a-bout, far better cars out there, could buy a 10 K car that's a lot better than that and so what if it costs more to run, 5K would buy a lot of petrol for a run-a-bout.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,107 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    No it won't spend most of it's time doing 0-100 Km/Hr sprints but it's 0-100 time is a good indication of how slow it will actually be to accelerate.

    Still a fair bit to spend on a run-a-bout, far better cars out there, could buy a 10 K car that's a lot better than that and so what if it costs more to run, 5K would buy a lot of petrol for a run-a-bout.

    Wait... Your giving out about a new EV for 10k.

    Jaysus talk about shifting the goal posts. It's like someone on twitter looking to be outraged.

    And 10 k could buy me lots of bicycles.. what's your point!


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    listermint wrote: »
    Wait... Your giving out about a new EV for 10k.

    Jaysus talk about shifting the goal posts. It's like someone on twitter looking to be outraged.

    And 10 k could buy me lots of bicycles.. what's your point!

    How do we know it will cost 10K ? I suppose for 10 K it aint bad for new. ( for some people )


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Having drove the e-Up! for a good two years, it's headline figures of 0-100km/h in 12.5s and a top speed of 130km/h didn't cause any issues. The only time the car felt a bit anaemic was on 120km/h motorways, and even then it wasn't an issue.
    The instant torque meant that I was ahead of people at any traffic light. Most people aren't able to achieve there car's rated acceleration when doing manual gear changes.

    Look at the entry level Yaris, it has a 0-100 time of 14.6s, there is space in the market entry level cars that don't go like rockets, if you want a hot hatch go buy one.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    liamog wrote: »
    Having drove the e-Up! for a good two years, it's headline figures of 0-100km/h in 12.5s and a top speed of 130km/h didn't cause any issues. The only time the car felt a bit anaemic was on 120km/h motorways, and even then it wasn't an issue.
    The instant torque meant that I was ahead of people at any traffic light. Most people aren't able to achieve there car's rated acceleration when doing manual gear changes.

    Look at the entry level Yaris, it has a 0-100 time of 14.6s, there is space in the market entry level cars that don't go like rockets, if you want a hot hatch go buy one.

    I don't drive a hot hatch but at least the i3 has some decent power.


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