Richard E Grant says straight people should not play gay characters

facehugger99

The only programme I'm likely to get on is the ****ing news!

LineOfBeauty

Donnielighto wrote: »

You had a go at the industry and then when asked about details there's this hand waving oh I didn't suggest that. Youre in the same virtue signalling not thought through boat granted is paddling in.

I'm not claiming to have all the answers, I don't know even if there is a right answer to this. What I do know is that it is an issue, and that I think Grant makes some interesting points in the article and that I agree with them. Just because I agree with something doesn't mean I have to find a solution to an issue that has plagued LGBTQ cinema (and Hollywood) for decades.

LineOfBeauty

batman_oh wrote: »

They have exactly the same amount of roles that anybody else has. The point of acting is that you act - not that you go in and play yourself
Should we only hire Superman to play Superman?

That's pure whatabouttery. If films were being made about Supermen and Supermen were a minority group who either get typecasted as minor characters in mainstream films or cant find work at all based on their sexuality then I would say yes, Supermen should only be given Superman roles.

One eyed Jack

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'm not claiming to have all the answers, I don't know even if there is a right answer to this. What I do know is that it is an issue, and that I think Grant makes some interesting points in the article and that I agree with them. Just because I agree with something doesn't mean I have to find a solution to an issue that has plagued LGBTQ cinema (and Hollywood) for decades.

Fair play for that much at least, but I disagree with how Grant is framing the issue as one of a lack of representation in the very small number of films that are made which represent all these various issues. I also disagree with his proposals which are meant as a way of addressing the lack of representation in film of characters who are either lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. I would suggest that a better way to address the issue of representation is simply to make better films that people will want to watch and be inspired by.

One that always comes to my mind anyway is the film Predestination, of which Hawkes said of the film -


The lead character was variously described as transgender or intersex in different media articles. Hawke told The Guardian that transgender issues are not the focal point of the film, but rather that the narrative is relevant to all people: "There's something about Predestination that actually does get at identity, for me".


The film wouldn’t have worked as it did if the focus of attention was on the gender or sexual orientation of the two actors playing the one character.

batman_oh

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

That's pure whatabouttery. If films were being made about Supermen and Supermen were a minority group who either get typecasted as minor characters in mainstream films or cant find work at all based on their sexuality then I would say yes, Supermen should only be given Superman roles.

And your point is nonsense. Why can't a gay person play a straight person? They are actors. That's literally the whole point of the job. You have no actual point claiming there are no roles for them.

They are pretty crap actors if they can't pretend to be something they are not - therefore don't deserve the job.

LineOfBeauty

batman_oh wrote: »

And your point is nonsense. Why can't a gay person play a straight person. They are actors. That's the whole point of the job. you literally have no point claiming there are no roles for them

Sure go ahead then, name me some mainstream films in which an openly gay actor is playing straight lead roles?

Then tell me how many straight actors are playing gay roles.

Finally, find me the ridiculously disproportionate number.

I'm not saying I have a solution, but to not acknowledge that it is an issue is to stick one's head in the sand.

WrenBoy

seamus wrote: »

The point is that gay (and trans, disabled, black, etc) actors are discriminated against more than their straight colleagues. They have a more difficult time getting called for auditions, they are less likely to be cast for a role when they do audition, and they are likely to be offered less money.

How are they discriminated against ? How is it easier to get an acting role as a straight person than a gay person ?
Its true that there are more white leading men and women in movies here because thats the majority demographic of the cinema going audience, I would expect African movies to be mostly black actors and Bollywood actors to be mostly Indian.

seamus wrote: »

Straight actors should be more aware of this, of when they're being cast in a role that there would be definitely be someone more suitable (like whatsherface American woman playing a Japanese manga character), and should be more vocal about speaking out and supporting actors who are members of marginalised groups.

Please don't hire me. My dream is to be an actor but unless the role is for a 5'10 straight man from Ireland with dark hair who never had anything too extreme or noteworthy happen to him I wont do it, gosh I hope that part comes along so I can pay rent this month.

tdf7187

Bit ironic as the character he played in The Player was very camp.

Withnail was also a bit camp, though his first and only love was of course the booze.

Effects

Aren't all his characters a bit camp?

ceadaoin.

There arent that many openly gay actors in Hollywood, despite many big names who are rumored to be gay. Maybe the industry should tackle the homophobia problem first that makes gay actors afraid to come out because they will lose out on leading man or love interest roles.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

I’m rewatching Six Feet Under currently. I love Michael C. Hall’s and Mathew St. Patrick’s portrayals of gay men. Their real life sexuality (I think they are both straight) isn’t a factor. I just rewatched Call Me By Your Name. Imagine not casting Timothée Chalamet in the role of Elio because he’s straight? That would have been a huge mistake.

LineOfBeauty

ceadaoin. wrote: »

There arent that many openly gay actors in Hollywood, despite many big names who are rumored to be gay. Maybe the industry should tackle the homophobia problem first that makes gay actors afraid to come out because they will lose out on leading man or love interest roles.

Those are 2 things that are very closely linked. Historically big name Hollywood leading men led a secretly gay lifestyle, the choice is you either don't come out or you basically fall off the face of the Earth professionally.

One eyed Jack

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Sure go ahead then, name me some mainstream films in which an openly gay actor is playing straight lead roles?

Then tell me how many straight actors are playing gay roles.

Finally, find me the ridiculously disproportionate number.

I'm not saying I have a solution, but to not acknowledge that it is an issue is to stick one's head in the sand.

I think you’ll find that there are far more openly gay actors playing straight roles than there are openly straight actors playing gay roles, simply because the number of films where being gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender as the central theme of the film, is a reflection of the numbers of people who are either gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender in society.

There simply aren’t that many films where being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender is the theme of the film, and so to demand that only lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender actors play those roles is stereotyping as opposed to representation, pigeonholing actors into roles that only exist to give them something to do.

The whole idea simply reeks of political representation as opposed to being able to judge an actor on their suitability for a role.

LineOfBeauty

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I think you’ll find that there are far more openly gay actors playing straight roles than there are openly straight actors playing gay roles, simply because the number of films where being gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender as the central theme of the film, is a reflection of the numbers of people who are either gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender in society.

There simply aren’t that many films where being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender is the theme of the film, and so to demand that only lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender actors play those roles is stereotyping as opposed to representation, pigeonholing actors into roles that only exist to give them something to do.

The whole idea simply reeks of political representation as opposed to being able to judge an actor on their suitability for a role.

I'm not being smart but I'm sitting here trying to think of openly gay actors playing lead roles in mainstream films and I'm really coming up short. Obviously there's a far smaller pool of actors to choose from (that being openly gay actors) but there is a far bigger pool of movies with predominately straight leads, so the numbers should balance out if all is fair? Can you give me any examples of gay actors playing lead straight roles? Because I'm fairly certain that of the limited number of LGBTQ films that are made I can give you many examples of straight actors playing lead roles.

Seamai

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m rewatching Six Feet Under currently. I love Michael C. Hall’s and Mathew St. Patrick’s portrayals of gay men. Their real life sexuality (I think they are both straight) isn’t a factor. I just rewatched Call Me By Your Name. Imagine not casting Timothée Chalamet in the role of Elio because he’s straight? That would have been a huge mistake.

You watched Call Me By Your Name" twice? Once was too long for me, I nearly died of stultification, I would say the most overrated film of 2018 for me.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Seamai wrote: »

You watched Call Me By Your Name" twice? Once was too long for me, I nearly died of stultification, I would say the most overrated film of 2018 for me.

Yes and I can’t wait to watch it again. I didn’t watch it when it was out and ignored the hype. I watched it for the first time this year and just happened to love it. I didn’t think I would but it has stayed with me. Very few films do.

ceadaoin.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'm not being smart but I'm sitting here trying to think of openly gay actors playing lead roles in mainstream films and I'm really coming up short. Obviously there's a far smaller pool of actors to choose from (that being openly gay actors) but there is a far bigger pool of movies with predominately straight leads, so the numbers should balance out if all is fair? Can you give me any examples of gay actors playing lead straight roles? Because I'm fairly certain that of the limited number of LGBTQ films that are made I can give you many examples of straight actors playing lead roles.

Not a film, but honestly the only time I can think of that an openly gay actor played a straight character with a female love interest is Matt Bomer in american horror story.

LineOfBeauty

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Not a film, but honestly the only time I can think of that an openly gay actor played a straight character with a female love interest is Matt Bomer in american horror story.

I do realise that there really isn't that many out gay actors (which, tbh I think is a symptom of what Grant is saying in a way) but given the endless amount of films made every year with heterosexual characters, can't we get even a few gay actors to play those lead straight roles?

One eyed Jack

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'm not being smart but I'm sitting here trying to think of openly gay actors playing lead roles in mainstream films and I'm really coming up short. Obviously there's a far smaller pool of actors to choose from (that being openly gay actors) but there is a far bigger pool of movies with predominately straight leads, so the numbers should balance out if all is fair? Can you give me any examples of gay actors playing lead straight roles? Because I'm fairly certain that of the limited number of LGBTQ films that are made I can give you many examples of straight actors playing lead roles.

I know you’re not being smart but it didn’t take me two minutes on Google, and this list is by no means comprehensive -

Gay actors who play straight characters

I know you can give me many examples of openly straight actors who play lead roles in the small number of films that are made about lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender stories, but that’s because like I said - there just aren’t that many (well-known at least) films made where being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender is the theme of the film, simply because the reality is that they don’t put bums on seats - they offer a poor return on their investment.

With streaming media there are no end of low-budget, high-quality films and television series in which the themes centre around sex and sexuality and the roles are played by actors who are either lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender, but they just aren’t popular enough to offer a good return on investment. They’re of little appeal to a much broader audience, where Hollywood tends to be more concerned with churning out some awful crap that caters to the broadest audience possible.

Have to say though Wonder Woman was an exception

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Not a film, but honestly the only time I can think of that an openly gay actor played a straight character with a female love interest is Matt Bomer in american horror story.

TR Knight played a straight character in Grey’s Anatomy.

LineOfBeauty

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I know you’re not being smart but it didn’t take me two minutes on Google, and this list is by no means comprehensive -

Gay actors who play straight characters

I know you can give me many examples of openly straight actors who play lead roles in the small number of films that are made about lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender stories, but that’s because like I said - there just aren’t that many (well-known at least) films made where being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender is the theme of the film, simply because the reality is that they don’t put bums on seats - they offer a poor return on their investment.

With streaming media there are no end of low-budget, high-quality films and television series in which the themes centre around sex and sexuality and the roles are played by actors who are either lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender, but they just aren’t popular enough to offer a good return on investment. They’re of little appeal to a much broader audience, where Hollywood tends to be more concerned with churning out some awful crap that caters to the broadest audience possible.

Have to say though Wonder Woman was an exception

I think I wouldv'e gotten most of the TV ones, though the Desolation of Smaug was a bit of a surprise to me!

I get what you're saying, and for something like "Brokeback Mountain" with its relatively big budget I can completely see why they would cast the two leads that they did, and in some ways it is good because that was a breakthrough movie for LGBTQ film in the mainstream and there were more eyes on it because of who the leads were. Same could arguably be said about "Call Me By Your Name" and I love those two films, but it is disappointing that, while there have been some incredible LGTBQ films made (especially in the last 20 years) that so few of the lead actors in those films are representative of the group of people the film portrays, and I don't just mean the big mainstream ones (like the 2 I just named) but even smaller, indie projects feature far too few gay actors for my liking. Maybe as society progresses and more actors feel comfortable coming out, that number will balance itself out over time.

One eyed Jack

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Not a film, but honestly the only time I can think of that an openly gay actor played a straight character with a female love interest is Matt Bomer in american horror story.

Ahh you’re forgetting Zachary Quinto! He was brilliant as the secretly gay murderer who couldn’t, emmm, “perform”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Horror_Story:_Asylum_characters#Dr._Oliver_Thredson

The fact that Zachary Quinto is gay had little to do with his ability to play a secretly gay murderer who couldn’t perform with a woman, but he had a rather unusual way of addressing the issue :pac:


EDIT: Sarah Paulson has just been brilliant throughout her time on the show.

Irish Guitarist

I saw this person in a series on Netflix last year. The minute 'she' appeared I knew it was a transsexual. I was waiting to see if anyone would mention it but they didn't. I think you were just supposed to accept it was a woman.



This person is so obviously a transsexual that it was distracting. I kept wondering was it somehow part of the story but apparently it wasn't. It made absolutely no sense not to just give the role to a woman.

There's no such issue with a heterosexual man or woman playing a homosexual man or woman or vice versa. As long as someone is believable in a role who cares about their personal life.

The gray bird

Name 5 gay actors ? Im struggling to think of any

The gray bird

The gray bird wrote: »

Name 5 gay actors ? Im struggling to think of any

Personally, I find it all utterly retarded. I honestly don't care the sexual orientation or background of an actor in favoring to see their movies. Do I care what Tom Cruise is Heterosexual? Nope. Do I care if he's into Scientology? Nope. I care that he acts well, and his presence on the screen improves the overall impression of the movie.

The people who are wailing about sexual orientation, gender, (or insert stupid issue) for imagined issues outside of their primary roles need to shut the fcuk up, and get on with living. An actor acts. A singer sings. Their role is to entertain. Their role is not to create further divisions for people to chew on.

Few already mentioned. They guy that plays the womaniser in 'How I met your mother' is gay.

The guy that recently (ish) played Dracula is gay. Big enough in UK TV.

I think the issue is that nobody really cares anymore and there's probably loads. Considering the industry I'd say it wouldn't damage your prospects much or at all.

WrenBoy

The gray bird wrote: »

Name 5 gay actors ? Im struggling to think of any

Really? Off my head Ian McKellen, Jodie Foster, that Quinto guy from Star Trek movies, George Takei, Wentworth something from Prison Break, Jim Parsons (Sheldon on Big Bang), Jane Lynch from Glee, Ellen Page.

cursai

Can a white man play a black man. Or vice versa ala tropic thunder or white girls.

Harry Palmr

George Takei,

is gay but certainly was in the closet professionally speaking. Jodie Foster was a rare outlier, remember all the rumourmongering and sly innuendo about her back before she "came out" which was only in 2007?

I think people are wasting their time debating this, directors and producers will pick actors they like regardless of their sexuality outside Hollywood. Hollywood is an industry town and they think about this sort of thing on that basis - dollars and cents. In the British film business being gay has long since ceased to be an issue.

WrenBoy

Harry Palmr wrote: »

is gay but certainly was in the closet professionally speaking. Jodie Foster was a rare outlier, remember all the rumourmongering and sly innuendo about her back before she "came out" which was only in 2007?

I think people are wasting their time debating this, directors and producers will pick actors they like regardless of their sexuality outside Hollywood. Hollywood is an industry town and they think about this sort of thing on that basis - dollars and cents. In the British film business being gay has long since ceased to be an issue.

I disagree you don't know how Takei was treated for all you know everyone in the industry knew his orientation just didn't advertise it to spare him any trouble at the time, we don't know but this conversation is about the industry today and Takei is loved, same with Foster who is still putting out strong work but fine take out those two what about the rest? not to mention Ellen Degeneres who is basically the biggest thing on Chat show tv since Oprah (another minority in Hollywood who was at a disadvantage somehow)